Originally posted by: shrumpage
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: shrumpage
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Fortunately it doesn't matter how many of any religion we have, it doesn't make us a religious nation. We are a secular nation, purely and protected. We just have a high concentration of idiot....errr, I mean religious people.
When 80% of the population claim some type of religion, we are a religious nation.
Once again, i'm talking about the populace NOT the government. We do have a secular government, and always should.
Except that most of the people that claim religious adherence are in fact merely answering as an inclusion to a perceived collective, and not out of any actual personal religious inclinations. When Pew and some of the others have broken it down to separate those who actually practice a religion from those who merely claim association, the numbers go WAY down.
Even if it weren't for that. I'd disagree. A nation is religious if it was founded on religion, if it operates on religion, if the people actively practice the religion, or if the people in it make choices based on religion. None of that is predominately true in America.
I look at the people of the nation, the majority claim their religion as Christian. Are the all avid church goers? No. But its a personal choice on what you call yourself. Its a culture thing, that doesn't need to be approved by the government. And even though we actively keep government separate, people still make decisions on their beliefs (voting). So that cultural influence is there.
Even though the government is generally secular it still has some Christian religious influence: swearing in on a Bible, recognizing Christmas as an official federal holiday. Since its not a 100% secular does it lose its secular title?
I don't' think so.
The United States is a Christian nation with a secular government.
Originally posted by: shrumpage
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: Mani
Originally posted by: shrumpage
Originally posted by: f95toli
Originally posted by: shrumpage
What is the threshold then?
The "threshold" is that a christian countries have christianity as an official religion; i.e. there is a state church (a church endorsed by the state that often have a priviliged postion compared to other churches, e.g. the right to collect tax).
E.g the offical religion of England is christianity; Church of England being the state church.
There is no state church in the USA, so it is a secular country.
I was being very specific in my wording: the nation is Christian, but the government is not.
Well in that case we are debating semantics. What f95 and I are addressing is what is typically implied by people who believe we are a "Christian nation": that Christianity and the state are somehow intertwined, if even historically...something categorically false.
see that is just it. when the president of the US says to the fricken world we are a Muslim country, the people in counties where the religion is the government will believe it.
Who the fuck cares?
Honestly, what kind of made-up issue is this?
the same issue that caused the confusion between Mani and shrumpage
I think the real issue is how on earth does Obama consider 6-7million Muslims would equate to one of the largest Muslim nations.
It should be absolutely noted that this is no longer required anywhere, and was never actually required anywhere in the US in the first place.Originally posted by: shrumpage
swearing in on a Bible
Originally posted by: Citrix
its clear how this board is very much for Obama and he can do no wrong.
i am a independent and i am getting sick and tired of my president going all over the world apologizing for America and insulting American citizens. Hell even Chavez today said Obama is more left than he is.
BHO has become a laughing stock to our country.
the list of bullshit continues to grow every day.
Nationalization of corporations without Constitutional authority
Firing of corporate executives without Constitutional authority
Driving the US into near bankruptcy
Telling Iran they can have nuclear power but the US needs solar and wind power...
Refusing to condemn a brazen, deadly terrorist attack on US Army recruiter's assistants
Inviting a terrorist regime to celebrate our Independence Day
Insulting America on his "America Sucks and We Apologize World Tour"
Conspiring with the voter fraud group ACORN
Obama claims the U.S. is a Muslim country
He also claims it is one of the largest Muslim countries in the world
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: Citrix
its clear how this board is very much for Obama and he can do no wrong.
Wrong. Show me one liberal on this board who has defended every Obama policy including his not pushing an investigation of Bush, his continuation of some (and even expansion in one case) of Bush policies on detainees and secrecy, his opposition to gay marriage, etc. I haven't seen one, much less the whole board as you say.
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: shrumpage
I think the real issue is how on earth does Obama consider 6-7million Muslims would equate to one of the largest Muslim nations.
192 (or 195, depending on source) nations in the world, our population rates us in the top 25% of those...so I'm guessing he reached the conclusion through mathematics.
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: Citrix
its clear how this board is very much for Obama and he can do no wrong.
Wrong. Show me one liberal on this board who has defended every Obama policy including his not pushing an investigation of Bush, his continuation of some (and even expansion in one case) of Bush policies on detainees and secrecy, his opposition to gay marriage, etc. I haven't seen one, much less the whole board as you say.
i am a independent and i am getting sick and tired of my president going all over the world apologizing for America and insulting American citizens. Hell even Chavez today said Obama is more left than he is.
Some self-described 'independants' are some of the most ignorant people, IMO. You hear the nuttiest things from them.
You think that what we should do, using Iran as an example, after overthrowing their democracy and installing a tyrant for 25 years who murdered and tortured political opponents, and after the country overthrew him, we bought off Saddam to attack them in a war where he bombed their schools with WMD and caused a million casualties, is to not apologize for our actions. Great, you have an admirable code of morality.
As I posted in your thread, Chavez *joked*, only you read it literally.
BHO has become a laughing stock to our country.
Delusion. Your ignorance is the laughing stock.
the list of bullshit continues to grow every day.
In your posts.
Nationalization of corporations without Constitutional authority
Firing of corporate executives without Constitutional authority
Must be why the right-wing Supreme Court blocked his policies. Oh, wait, maybe you are ignorant of the constitution.
Driving the US into near bankruptcy
Him and his damn economist cronies who practically all say the stimulus is essential to prevent worse problems. His charisma must have zombified them into followers.
Telling Iran they can have nuclear power but the US needs solar and wind power...
Uh, we have nuclear power. It's a fair point to ask why he doesn't support more, but not what you said.
Refusing to condemn a brazen, deadly terrorist attack on US Army recruiter's assistants
You are clearly an 'independant' - the President hates the military so much he won't even lie and say he's against their being murdered. Yay, 'independants'.
Inviting a terrorist regime to celebrate our Independence Day
Us?
Insulting America on his "America Sucks and We Apologize World Tour"
You are the enemy of the truth. And clearly an expert on foreign relations, which know it's very effective to say to people your country has tortured, 'we're proud we did'. Congrats.
Conspiring with the voter fraud group ACORN
You're a liar, and an enemy of democracy, opposing a group who increases democracy.
Obama claims the U.S. is a Muslim country
A serial liar.
He also claims it is one of the largest Muslim countries in the world
Finally, a nugget of apparently legitimate criticism insofar as his statement that the US is among the nations in the world with the most Muslims was inaccurate.
192 (or 195, depending on source) nations in the world, our population rates us in the top 25% of those...so I'm guessing he reached the conclusion through mathematics.
Originally posted by: Citrix
.. it would have been nice if you respond with intelligence and thoughtfulness instead of your foaming at the mouth ...
... a little intelligent dialog would have been great but i see you are not capable of that. Are you that much of a lockstep wingnut that you cant see the truth and have to resort to insults for a answer legitimate points?
... go take a bath hippie you stink.
Originally posted by: Citrix
its clear how this board is very much for Obama and he can do no wrong. i am a independent and i am getting sick and tired of my president going all over the world apologizing for America and insulting American citizens. Hell even Chavez today said Obama is more left than he is.
BHO has become a laughing stock to our country.
the list of bullshit continues to grow every day.
Nationalization of corporations without Constitutional authority
Firing of corporate executives without Constitutional authority
Driving the US into near bankruptcy
Using taxpayer dollars to fund overseas abortion mills
Telling Iran they can have nuclear power but the US needs solar and wind power...
Refusing to condemn a brazen, deadly terrorist attack on US Army recruiter's assistants
Inviting a terrorist regime to celebrate our Independence Day
Insulting America on his "America Sucks and We Apologize World Tour"
Conspiring with the voter fraud group ACORN
Dropping charges against two Black Panthers after they had already been found guilty of a variety of crimes
Obama claims the U.S. is a Muslim country
He also claims it is one of the largest Muslim countries in the world
Originally posted by: Budmantom
Obama say we aren't a Christian nation but we are one of the largest Muslim countries.
Originally posted by: Citrix
LOL wow dude i must have hit a nerve with you, every bullet point i posted is true. it would have been nice if you respond with intelligence and thoughtfulness instead of your foaming at the mouth calling me a LIAR LIAR LIAR and ignorant. a little intelligent dialog would have been great but i see you are not capable of that. Are you that much of a lockstep wingnut that you cant see the truth and have to resort to insults for a answer legitimate points?
tell you what pal, in my book you are part of the problem you put obama up on such a high pedestal that you actually fucking worship him like a God. that kind of bullshit politics is dangerous and really shows how IGNORANT YOU are for worshiping a man and turning a blind eye to the crap he is doing.
I dare you to prove any of my points wrong with actual facts and not some half cocked emotional bullshit answer.
go take a bath hippie you stink.
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Originally posted by: Budmantom
Obama say we aren't a Christian nation but we are one of the largest Muslim countries.
Oh for heaven's sake. It's very clear from the overall quotation that Obama is not saying that the US is a "Moslem Nation" but rather that we the raw number of Moslems in the US is among the highest of any country. Getting pissed about this only serves to make one look ridiculous.
ZV
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Originally posted by: Budmantom
Obama say we aren't a Christian nation but we are one of the largest Muslim countries.
Oh for heaven's sake. It's very clear from the overall quotation that Obama is not saying that the US is a "Moslem Nation" but rather that we the raw number of Moslems in the US is among the highest of any country. Getting pissed about this only serves to make one look ridiculous.
ZV
I, for one, want to go on record as being of the opinion that Budmantom is not that stupid and understands perfectly will the absurdity of his position. I think the real problem is that he knows his kind is dying and the emotional tension such awareness creates causes him to irrationally flail about throwing darts by the millions in the hope that some of them stick. It takes time to adjust to the fact that your whole way of life, your whole culture, all the people you identify with, are nothing more than primitive bigots. He had the misfortune to have been born among the backward. It isn't his fault that he thinks as he does. We become what we are surrounded by and when the pressure to conform is tremendous it makes personal evolution extra hard. He may grow up or he may not but it's really up to him.
Originally posted by: Citrix
He also claims it is one of the largest Muslim countries in the world
Originally posted by: Citrix
its clear how this board is very much for Obama and he can do no wrong. i am a independent and i am getting sick and tired of my president going all over the world apologizing for America and insulting American citizens. Hell even Chavez today said Obama is more left than he is.
BHO has become a laughing stock to our country.
the list of bullshit continues to grow every day.
Nationalization of corporations without Constitutional authority
Firing of corporate executives without Constitutional authority
Driving the US into near bankruptcy
Using taxpayer dollars to fund overseas abortion mills
Telling Iran they can have nuclear power but the US needs solar and wind power...
Refusing to condemn a brazen, deadly terrorist attack on US Army recruiter's assistants
Inviting a terrorist regime to celebrate our Independence Day
Insulting America on his "America Sucks and We Apologize World Tour"
Conspiring with the voter fraud group ACORN
Dropping charges against two Black Panthers after they had already been found guilty of a variety of crimes
Obama claims the U.S. is a Muslim country
He also claims it is one of the largest Muslim countries in the world
Originally posted by: mrCide
Sigh, this forum used to be bad, now it's just worthless..
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: Mani
Originally posted by: shrumpage
Originally posted by: f95toli
Originally posted by: shrumpage
What is the threshold then?
The "threshold" is that a christian countries have christianity as an official religion; i.e. there is a state church (a church endorsed by the state that often have a priviliged postion compared to other churches, e.g. the right to collect tax).
E.g the offical religion of England is christianity; Church of England being the state church.
There is no state church in the USA, so it is a secular country.
I was being very specific in my wording: the nation is Christian, but the government is not.
Well in that case we are debating semantics. What f95 and I are addressing is what is typically implied by people who believe we are a "Christian nation": that Christianity and the state are somehow intertwined, if even historically...something categorically false.
see that is just it. when the president of the US says to the fricken world we are a Muslim country, the people in counties where the religion is the government will believe it.
Originally posted by: shrumpage
Originally posted by: Mani
It's not a matter of threshold - it's whether Christian doctrine is a part of the nation's governance. We are a secular nation regardless of our religious makeup.
When the overwhelming majority of a population make up anything, you can consider the whole as such.
60% of the population where i live work in the fishing industry. The town is considered a 'fishing town' even though not everyone actually fishes.
People generally classify the United States as an English speaking nation since the majority of its citizens use english as their primary language. In spite there being no official declaration of english being the official language.
Using your standard you could not call Israel a Jewish state since only 75% of the population is Jewish and there is no official state religion.