Bartender BS.. Tried to refuse to charge my credit card tab because it was less than $20..

[thegimp03]

If you were a hot chick, there wouldn't have been a minimum.

I've had the "minimum" issue in Vegas clubs before. One place was minimum $50 tab I think. Granted, not a real big problem since if you're getting anything liquor drinks will average $12-15 each, but that's a pretty steep minimum charge for lots of people.

In the future I want to avoid opening up tabs after a recent experience where I got an extra $20 charge on my cc which was open all night at a local bar where I'm familiar with the bartenders. Went in to see the manager with my statement in hand and it showing 2 separate charges on 2 different days (was only there 1 of the days) and told her that I wasn't worried about the amount (cuz I've had more than my fair share of free drinks there over the past few years) but it's the principal of overcharging which bothered me. Same shit happened to my roommate at the same place on a different night. Shady practices which will probably keep us away from there going forward.

 

[DayLaPaul]

Originally posted by: Thorny

Originally posted by: DayLaPaul
That doesn't make any sense. You highlighted the part about the service already being rendered, then you say it's well within your rights not to serve him. How do you unrender a service? Either accept the plastic or the service was free.

So you think you are allowed to walk out without paying because you don't like the stores policy? When you walk in the door and you see a sign posted explaining the stores CC policy, you agree to abide by the policy or not request services from them. I stated earlier that my store does not have a minimum charge or fee, but I know what my local police dept would do if someone refused to pay for services rendered. Most of the examples in this thread are of people requesting service to be paid by CC, not them trying to pay for services rendered.

I'm sorry, I didn't know we were making up hypothetical scenarios. I was going by the example given in the OP, where it was stated that no signs were posted. The OP ordered 3 beers and the bartender refused to close his tab unless he ordered up to $20 worth of stuff.

In that scenario, how exactly do you intend to "refuse service" after the fact? Forcing the OP to order more alcohol is just as unethical as leaving without paying for the drinks. Combine that with the fact that the OP is more than willing to pay for the drinks, using a method of payment that was already accepted by the bartender, I find the establishment to be 100% at fault.

But like I already said previously, this situation is not worth going to war over. If it were me, I would just order up a round of shots and be done with it. We all know when we walk into a bar that we are being extorted, be it by the mark up on the drinks themselves or by hidden $20 minimums, so it's really not worth it to make an issue out of it. However, if the OP wanted to play "hardball," he would be 100% in the right.

 

[Thorny]

Originally posted by: DayLaPaul

Originally posted by: Thorny

Originally posted by: DayLaPaul
That doesn't make any sense. You highlighted the part about the service already being rendered, then you say it's well within your rights not to serve him. How do you unrender a service? Either accept the plastic or the service was free.

So you think you are allowed to walk out without paying because you don't like the stores policy? When you walk in the door and you see a sign posted explaining the stores CC policy, you agree to abide by the policy or not request services from them. I stated earlier that my store does not have a minimum charge or fee, but I know what my local police dept would do if someone refused to pay for services rendered. Most of the examples in this thread are of people requesting service to be paid by CC, not them trying to pay for services rendered.

I'm sorry, I didn't know we were making up hypothetical scenarios. I was going by the example given in the OP, where it was stated that no signs were posted. The OP ordered 3 beers and the bartender refused to close his tab unless he ordered up to $20 worth of stuff.

In that scenario, how exactly do you intend to "refuse service" after the fact? Forcing the OP to order more alcohol is just as unethical as leaving without paying for the drinks. Combine that with the fact that the OP is more than willing to pay for the drinks, using a method of payment that was already accepted by the bartender, I find the establishment to be 100% at fault.

But like I already said previously, this situation is not worth going to war over. If it were me, I would just order up a round of shots and be done with it. We all know when we walk into a bar that we are being extorted, be it by the mark up on the drinks themselves or by hidden $20 minimums, so it's really not worth it to make an issue out of it. However, if the OP wanted to play "hardball," he would be 100% in the right.

I don't disagree with you in that scenario. In the OP's case they should've just cashed him out. Earlier I had been quoted other scenarios brought up in the thread about cashiers refusing service's not rendered when they had signs stating thier policy. However, in the OP's case, if the bar had a sign stating no tabs under $20 my opinion would change.

Think of it this way, if you don't pay with a credit card you are still having to pay a mark up for everyone else that does. As a business owner, why can't I charge people for the service's they use therfore keeping the cost lower for my cash and check paying customers? When business' don't charge extra for the CC fee's it just means that it's built into thier list price and EVERYONE pays more.

 

[Viperoni]

One solution to being under $20 for 3 drinks is to move to Toronto. You won't have that problems aftewards! lol

 

[Babbles]

A bar at my wife's old stomping ground has a $10 minimum for credit cards - which I always thought bizarre. I never made an issue of it, though, because when we go in we always spend more than ten bucks between the two (or more) of us.

 

[Babbles]

Originally posted by: Viperoni
One solution to being under $20 for 3 drinks is to move to Toronto. You won't have that problems aftewards! lol

Holy shit, is that right. The wife and I were in Toronto a couple of months back and that place is crazy expensive - makes New York city seem reasonable by contrast.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: Babbles

Originally posted by: Viperoni
One solution to being under $20 for 3 drinks is to move to Toronto. You won't have that problems aftewards! lol

Holy shit, is that right. The wife and I were in Toronto a couple of months back and that place is crazy expensive - makes New York city seem reasonable by contrast.

Yes, but it was Canadian play money.

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: Thorny

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: Thorny

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: Thorny

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: SandEagle

Originally posted by: Evadman

Originally posted by: Xanis
Don't a lot of places have a minimum charge for credit cards? I don't see how this is any more different or any less legal. Not saying it doesn't stuck, but still.

That is the point. Any minimum charge is against the CC agreement. Everywhere you see that, the company/business is breaking their contract.

didnt know that. thanks
bunch of stores have a $10 minimum around here. i will bring this up next time they refuse to let me buy a 75 cent soda on my cc

They will just say ok sorry no drink for you.

And then you take a picture of their minimum sign and have their merchant account revoked.

Try that and you'll find the credit card companies care about your inconvienance about as much as the merchant does. If you're to inconsiderate to care that the merchant loses money on the sale, do you really think the interchange bank is going to care you had to use a dollar bill to buy your soda? Use your right to not patronize the store if you feel so strongly about it, trying to get the merchant in trouble is just selfish and makes you a dick.

They do care in many cases. They accept a CONTRACT to do business on the Visa/Mastercard/AMEX/Discover networks, and they need to either follow them or stop accepting them.

Visa/Mastercard require you NOT to set minimum charge limits. Breach the contract and they can drop your ass, and if they get enough complaints they will. First time will usually get you warned.

If I want to buy a 99 cent coke at a store that accepts Visa with my Visa then that is well within my rights.

Doesn't matter what you think, the agreement they accepted to offer that as a payment method is supposed to guarantee me that right. It is black and white.

I own a business that accepts credit cards and I can assure you they will NOT cancel a merchant for that, they MAY warn them to stop if there are enough complaints, but they will not cancel someone they make money from.

Just an FYI, I did not have to sign an agreement with the credit card company. There is no contract and the only thing they can do if I abide by their ToS is cancel my service, which they won't do because they make to much money from it. I offer their service as a convienance to my customers, one that I pay for, not the customer. The company is very aware where the money comes from, and customers that don't buy enough to cover the minimum charge are not much use to the business or credit card company.

Another FYI, you have not RIGHT to buy anything at a business they don't want to sell you. I don't personally set a minimum purchase amount for credit cards, but if I want to I will and if you don't like it you have the RIGHT to shop somewhere else.

Just the fact that your too lazy to carry a $5 bill on you and would rather have a vendor lose money so you don't have to is incredibly self centered.

If it is for a service already rendered such as a meal, or drinks etc.. you can run my card or go pound sand. You have the logo on the door. I am well within my rights to demand you run it.

I'm well within my rights to not serve you and tell you to GTFO also.

I won't rehash the point as it has already been said..but you highlighted the "services already rendered" part.

If I have consumed the alcohol, and then it comes time to pay, you can run my card or not get paid.

 

[dabuddha]

Against the rules but I'd hate for those places to stop taking credit cards.

 

[sourceninja]

There is a great Thai restaurant in town with a 30.00 min for credit cards. My wife and I went there once with friends and it was no problem as we were buying for everyone. The last time we went, I bought cash and I noticed they had that sign down. I wonder if someone called them on it. I used my credit card for 20.00 in food and they had no problems.

 

[QueBert]

Originally posted by: dabuddha
Against the rules but I'd hate for those places to stop taking credit cards.

I personally like places that don't take credit cards. Most of the small Chinese fast food places out here don't take credit cards at all. I know Visa commercials try and paint a picture that cash transactions are slower. But there's never a problem when it's cash only. I can't count the number of times I was in line and the person in from of me was using a card that couldn't be read even after 4-5 swipes. Or the credit card terminal was acting up. Cash always works, credit cards can be iffy. And then you run into people who are already ate so when the Visa won't process and they're cashless, now I gotta wait even longer in line. And these people typically seem to go "well my card's good and I don't have cash" expecting the store to just let them leave without paying for the food they already consumed. I'm not a fan of plastic personally.

Originally posted by: sourceninja
There is a great Thai restaurant in town with a 30.00 min for credit cards. My wife and I went there once with friends and it was no problem as we were buying for everyone. The last time we went, I bought cash and I noticed they had that sign down. I wonder if someone called them on it. I used my credit card for 20.00 in food and they had no problems.

doubtful, they took it down on their own. Probably due to customers bitching at them and they got sick of hearing. The liquor store I worked at had a $5 min charge, and people would constantly try to buy a pack of smokes - which were less than $5 back than. A lot threatened to call Visa and report the store when I told them I wasn't going to sell to them. I'm sure many did, but never once did Visa contact us. And I would estimate I turned away 10 people a day for this reason. So if even only 1 person a day called Visa that would have been hundreds total while I worked there.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

Originally posted by: OILFIELDTRASH
Thats why I stay out of shady places like bars and clubs. Nothin but trouble.

I've spent a good part of the last 3 years working at clubs and bars and I have had far more good times than troubled times. To the ratio of 100 to 1 probably.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: Xanis

Originally posted by: Evadman

Originally posted by: Xanis
Don't a lot of places have a minimum charge for credit cards? I don't see how this is any more different or any less legal. Not saying it doesn't stuck, but still.

That is the point. Any minimum charge is against the CC agreement. Everywhere you see that, the company/business is breaking their contract.

Wow, really? There are a few convenience stores around me that have a $XX minimum policy. I always thought it was BS.

i have a friend who owns a gas station and he has a 5 buck min purchase for all credit cards. anything charged less than 5 bucks and all the fees it cost him money. i asked him about the CC agreements that he was violating and his response was fuck them. well its his shop so he can do what he wants until he gets caught.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: SandEagle

Originally posted by: Evadman

Originally posted by: Xanis
Don't a lot of places have a minimum charge for credit cards? I don't see how this is any more different or any less legal. Not saying it doesn't stuck, but still.

That is the point. Any minimum charge is against the CC agreement. Everywhere you see that, the company/business is breaking their contract.

didnt know that. thanks
bunch of stores have a $10 minimum around here. i will bring this up next time they refuse to let me buy a 75 cent soda on my cc

they will just refuse service to you. dont like it shop someplace else.

 

[armstrda]

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged

Originally posted by: se7en

Originally posted by: Naustica

It's your right to charge 75 cents for soda. It's also their right to refuse to sell you the item and kicking you out.

It's also the CC company's right to revoke their ability to accept CC's

I would like to find out how this applies to my school. My university has a $2 minimum for debit/credit card use. Does anybody have some sort of website I could research this at for confirmation?

This is actually a good question. Does anyone have an answer to that?

 

[dabuddha]

Originally posted by: QueBert

Originally posted by: dabuddha
Against the rules but I'd hate for those places to stop taking credit cards.

I personally like places that don't take credit cards. Most of the small Chinese fast food places out here don't take credit cards at all. I know Visa commercials try and paint a picture that cash transactions are slower. But there's never a problem when it's cash only. I can't count the number of times I was in line and the person in from of me was using a card that couldn't be read even after 4-5 swipes. Or the credit card terminal was acting up. Cash always works, credit cards can be iffy. And then you run into people who are already ate so when the Visa won't process and they're cashless, now I gotta wait even longer in line. And these people typically seem to go "well my card's good and I don't have cash" expecting the store to just let them leave without paying for the food they already consumed. I'm not a fan of plastic personally.

Oh I agree. It's just that I hate getting cash from an ATM (laziness factor). Then again, for me the minimum charge isn't usually an issue since if I am buying food or something, it's for my family.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: GeekDrew
A local restaurant refused to accept credit cards because of the processing fees, and instead accepted personal checks and cash only. They were in business for only a year or two... it was too inconvenient. I skipped over them several times because I don't carry a check book and also don't usually have enough cash on me to buy dinner for a few people.

there is a Mexican joint near my house and i know the owner and she refuses to take CC. cash or check only. she is doing quite well she now has 23 restaurants in 6 states and a new one just opened in Seattle 2 months ago. she only franchises to family which pisses me off i knew years ago she had a hit and i wanted in on the ride with my own place.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: Thorny

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: Thorny

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: SandEagle

Originally posted by: Evadman

Originally posted by: Xanis
Don't a lot of places have a minimum charge for credit cards? I don't see how this is any more different or any less legal. Not saying it doesn't stuck, but still.

That is the point. Any minimum charge is against the CC agreement. Everywhere you see that, the company/business is breaking their contract.

didnt know that. thanks
bunch of stores have a $10 minimum around here. i will bring this up next time they refuse to let me buy a 75 cent soda on my cc

They will just say ok sorry no drink for you.

And then you take a picture of their minimum sign and have their merchant account revoked.

Try that and you'll find the credit card companies care about your inconvienance about as much as the merchant does. If you're to inconsiderate to care that the merchant loses money on the sale, do you really think the interchange bank is going to care you had to use a dollar bill to buy your soda? Use your right to not patronize the store if you feel so strongly about it, trying to get the merchant in trouble is just selfish and makes you a dick.

They do care in many cases. They accept a CONTRACT to do business on the Visa/Mastercard/AMEX/Discover networks, and they need to either follow them or stop accepting them.

Visa/Mastercard require you NOT to set minimum charge limits. Breach the contract and they can drop your ass, and if they get enough complaints they will. First time will usually get you warned.

If I want to buy a 99 cent coke at a store that accepts Visa with my Visa then that is well within my rights.

Doesn't matter what you think, the agreement they accepted to offer that as a payment method is supposed to guarantee me that right. It is black and white.

I own a business that accepts credit cards and I can assure you they will NOT cancel a merchant for that, they MAY warn them to stop if there are enough complaints, but they will not cancel someone they make money from.

Just an FYI, I did not have to sign an agreement with the credit card company. There is no contract and the only thing they can do if I abide by their ToS is cancel my service, which they won't do because they make to much money from it. I offer their service as a convienance to my customers, one that I pay for, not the customer. The company is very aware where the money comes from, and customers that don't buy enough to cover the minimum charge are not much use to the business or credit card company.

Another FYI, you have not RIGHT to buy anything at a business they don't want to sell you. I don't personally set a minimum purchase amount for credit cards, but if I want to I will and if you don't like it you have the RIGHT to shop somewhere else.

Just the fact that your too lazy to carry a $5 bill on you and would rather have a vendor lose money so you don't have to is incredibly self centered.

excellent post and 100% correct.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: SandEagle
didnt know that. thanks
bunch of stores have a $10 minimum around here. i will bring this up next time they refuse to let me buy a 75 cent soda on my cc

they will just refuse service to you. dont like it shop someplace else.

Or pick up your mobile and call the number on the back and let them know they have a vendor in violation of contract. This is assuming you never ever plan on shopping at that store again of course, because they'll probably have you killed if you come back.

 

[maziwanka]

the big fucking sleaze thing in nyc is that you open a tab and they secretly toss gratuity in there. when you're closing out and all hammered, you don't think about that and add ANOTHER 20% - and the fucking bartenders don't tell you shit about it. i fucking hate that crap.

case in point - friend had a 300 dollar tab that included gratuity. he was wasted and was about to add in another 60 DOLLARS, when i read over the receipt and told him not to do that. fucking ridiculous

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Baked

Originally posted by: ironwing
The solution to the OP's specific situation: If there is a CC logo on the door indicating that CCs are an acceptable form of payment was to tell the bartender to run it or they don't get paid. No scrounging for cash, no extra purchases, no ATM fees. Tell them to run the card or get bent.

And they have the right to kick your ass outta the establishment. You're not the only customer they have. :roll:

wow...you are very inconsistent with your persona online. So this is a case where big brother is ok?

To display the logo as well as accept credit cards the merchant agrees to not upcharge the customer nor require a minimum purchase.

 

[OCGuy]

Well a merchant could price it into every product to recoup it and nobody would know. I would rather them have a stated minimum.

 

[simpletron]

Originally posted by: Thorny
Think of it this way, if you don't pay with a credit card you are still having to pay a mark up for everyone else that does. As a business owner, why can't I charge people for the service's they use therfore keeping the cost lower for my cash and check paying customers? When business' don't charge extra for the CC fee's it just means that it's built into thier list price and EVERYONE pays more.

you give discounts for cash instead of surcharges for credit. gas stations around here have been doing this for years now by listing two prices, a cash price and credit price where cash price is a few pennies less per gallon.

http://usa.visa.com/download/m...for_visa_merchants.pdf

Always treat Visa transactions like any other transaction; that is, you may not
impose any surcharge on a Visa transaction. You may, however, offer a discount
for cash transactions, provided that the offer is clearly disclosed to customers
and the cash price is presented as a discount from the standard price charged for
all other forms of payment.

 

[kami333]

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged

Originally posted by: se7en

Originally posted by: Naustica

It's your right to charge 75 cents for soda. It's also their right to refuse to sell you the item and kicking you out.

It's also the CC company's right to revoke their ability to accept CC's

I would like to find out how this applies to my school. My university has a $2 minimum for debit/credit card use. Does anybody have some sort of website I could research this at for confirmation?

Schools and governments are allowed to charge a convinience fee so they may also be allowed to have a minimum, though even if it is at school if it's something they contract out, like the food court, they may not be allowed to.

Probably somewhere in their guidelines.

 

[Jack Ryan]

This conversation is pretty ridiculous.

1) Bar posts minimum credit card purchase
2) Problem alleviated

Who gives a shit who has the right to patronize a place or who has the right to serve whomever? Just post your policies and there is no argument.

If this happened to me, I would have ordered a few (complex) drinks for others at the bar and then left $0 tip.