Discussion Baseball too White/NBA too Black?

13Gigatons

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2005
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
38,382
8,684
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Baseball's a weird game. The greatest thing about it is that it's almost completely divorced from time. I suppose there are a few stopwatch rules, but I don't know them.

Baseball is crazy in that 1/2 the time you are sitting on the bench and you are expected to be able to sprint full speed regardless. The other half of the time you are just standing there unless you are the pitcher or catcher. It's bloody weird.

Basketball is pretty much non-stop action, but time is an important aspect with the length of halves and quarters and the 24 second clock. From a physical standpoint, basketball makes way way more sense than baseball. You can get hurt, but if you don't, basketball keeps you in really good shape. Baseball, not really. Babe Ruth looked totally out of shape.

Football is nuts. It's great to observe, but the violence is off the charts. I'm not sure how rugby players survive.

I like to watch soccer, but haven't in a long time. The World Cup is about to start. I guess I'll watch a bunch of that. The time aspect of that is nearly nil, a good thing. They just have arbitrary lengths of periods.

I used to play tennis, then basketball, both a lot of fun. I should look to take up table tennis again, I was pretty good at that but never competed seriously. You need a good setup to play that right, lots of room. It can be pretty athletic.
 
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Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
32,096
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Baseball's a weird game. The greatest thing about it is that it's almost completely divorced from time. I suppose there are a few stopwatch rules, but I don't know them.

Baseball is crazy in that 1/2 the time you are sitting on the bench and you are expected to be able to sprint full speed regardless. The other half of the time you are just standing there unless you are the pitcher or catcher. It's bloody weird.

Basketball is pretty much non-stop action, but time is an important aspect with the length of halves and quarters and the 24 second clock. From a physical standpoint, basketball makes way way more sense than baseball. You can get hurt, but if you don't, basketball keeps you in really good shape. Baseball, not really. Babe Ruth looked totally out of shape.

Football is nuts. It's great to observe, but the violence is off the charts. I'm not sure how rugby players survive.
I played baseball for 2 seasons as a kid before I decided it wasn't for me for this very reason. I found it...

Also, baseball seems to almost be more about the stats than the game. Like, yes every other sport tracks stats. I remember when the NFL introduce the QB rating system. But in baseball the stats are just such a huge part of the game.
I want to watch a damn game, not get off on talking player statistics.
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,676
5,238
136
I played baseball for 2 seasons as a kid before I decided it wasn't for me for this very reason. I found it...

Also, baseball seems to almost be more about the stats than the game. Like, yes every other sport tracks stats. I remember when the NFL introduce the QB rating system. But in baseball the stats are just such a huge part of the game.
I want to watch a damn game, not get off on talking player statistics.

I played a number of years, eventually moved to other sports (eg soccer.)

Baseball can be fun to play, but dreadfully boring to watch. Even playing can be a snooze if you have good pitchers/ terrible bats and no hits.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
38,382
8,684
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I played baseball for 2 seasons as a kid before I decided it wasn't for me for this very reason. I found it...

Also, baseball seems to almost be more about the stats than the game. Like, yes every other sport tracks stats. I remember when the NFL introduce the QB rating system. But in baseball the stats are just such a huge part of the game.
I want to watch a damn game, not get off on talking player statistics.
I noticed that Joe Buck isn't broadcasting the World Series. They probably got fed up with complaints about him. He bugged the crap out of me. But the guys they have announcing it now are terrible.

I watched about 5 innings of game two. It's Fox, and between innings at that point they aired a political ad that was super offensive. At the end it said it was paid for by Citizens for Sanity. I figure that to be dark money: Murdoch and maybe the Koch brothers, and maybe Russia. I turned off the TV, decided to not watch another minute of the World Series. I hadn't watched any baseball this year. I then looked up Fox, especially Wikipedia. Their network is owned by Murdoch, which I suspected. I sure hope that ad isn't on the other networks. It brings me Orwellian imagery.
 

Mai72

Lifer
Sep 12, 2012
11,562
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We make way too much about race in this country. How diverse is baseball in Korea? Or, how diverse is soccer in Brazil, China, or Spain?

African Americans aren't drawn into baseball like they are in football, and basketball. So what? How many blacks are their in Nascar, pro golf, or tennis.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
38,382
8,684
136
We make way too much about race in this country. How diverse is baseball in Korea? Or, how diverse is soccer in Brazil, China, or Spain?

African Americans aren't drawn into baseball like they are in football, and basketball. So what? How many blacks are their in Nascar, pro golf, or tennis.
I know nothing about Nascar. There have been some black pros in tennis and golf, more so in tennis but not by a lot. They are a rarity in golf, the PGA tour, anyway.
 
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brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
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We make way too much about race in this country. How diverse is baseball in Korea? Or, how diverse is soccer in Brazil, China, or Spain?

African Americans aren't drawn into baseball like they are in football, and basketball. So what? How many blacks are their in Nascar, pro golf, or tennis.

Wow dude. You confuse a lack of opportunity with a lack of desire to participate.
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
32,096
10,899
136
We make way too much about race in this country. How diverse is baseball in Korea? Or, how diverse is soccer in Brazil, China, or Spain?

African Americans aren't drawn into baseball like they are in football, and basketball. So what? How many blacks are their in Nascar, pro golf, or tennis.
Have you considered that it could be a function of location and economics, which in turn is a function of our "wonderful" history of disenfranchisement and white supremacy?

Hockey, for example, is horrendously expensive, and requires an expensive, specialized arena - an ice rink. So the requirements to even play the game mean it's more likely to occur in wealthy, suburban areas with the space to build an ice rink in the first place (which, in America, basically means white people).

Baseball requires large fields and has "moderate" gear requirements IMO - probably not as much as hockey, but also not as little as basketball.

Basketball, by contrast, requires very little in the way of social or personal economic investment. A basketball court can be put almost anywhere, and requires minimal maintenance. Player gear is also minimal - basketball shoes and a ball.

As for football, that one is a bit of a headscratcher to me, because football requires a fair amount of padding and gear like hockey, but also a fairly sizable field like baseball.

Soccer needs the same size field as football, but also minimal gear (shoes, shin pads, ball)
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,702
28,871
136

Black players currently compose about 7% of Major League Baseball teams, in comparison to the 18% of Black players the league had in 1991.

NBA on the other hand:
View attachment 70233




Does every sport have to be diverse?
Why does anything have to be diverse? Just push all us black people out of anything good in this country.

I guess white people should have everything. I bet your family complained when they let Jackie Robinson into baseball. You'll be happy when we are all gone. MAGA!!
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,702
28,871
136
We make way too much about race in this country. How diverse is baseball in Korea? Or, how diverse is soccer in Brazil, China, or Spain?

African Americans aren't drawn into baseball like they are in football, and basketball. So what? How many blacks are their in Nascar, pro golf, or tennis.
Easy to say when you have the majority and the power.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,702
28,871
136
The OP has complained about diversity and why should we care. I present to you 2 pictures taken a year apart. Picture #1 is Barack Obama's last intern class. The second is Trump's 1st intern class. What do you see and why should it be an issue?




Here's a side by side. Trump had one darkie and they put him as far away from Trump as possible



I have a question for the OP, why should we care about diversity in America? However I'm sure the OP is fine with black people picking up his trash or babysitting his kids. Then again probably not the latter.

If the OP either doesn't have an answer or refuses to answer I will later. Let's give him a chance.
 

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
9,142
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Baseball requires large prepared fields and upkeep.
Minority neighborhoods usually lose out on funding those types of projects and real estate developers usually nab up property like that.

In neighborhoods where fields exist, then it gets complicated.
Sports participation is driven by parents and needs to to start at young age. Once you get past the early years, it's parent enthusiasm that tends to keep kids in it.
If the dad played baseball as a kid then the son will. If mom was a volleyball player the daughter will likely be on a team. Same goes for track. Parents like to shove their kids into the familiar.
If grandpa never played because his congressman funnelled money to white neighborhoods and the few open fields were sold off to real estate developers to fund a beautification project in a more " desirable " neighborhood, then dad is unlikely to give a shit about playing baseball. If dad doesn't give a shit ..neither does the son.
By the time high school sports comes around, those kids are playing in more familiar sports.

Then you have big reason when baseball is a legacy sport and not exactly filled with new faces.
Boring as fuck, long as fuck and you can't be sure when the damn game is going to end.

If you want more diversity in baseball, you have to fund and maintain fields and incentivize communities to start up orgs that will put the fields to use and giving parents a reason to sit on benches for hours in the blazing sun.

Or even better, screw that and build science and education centers were kids can instead volunteer and do real stuff that matters.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,483
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Traveling baseball is *thousands* of dollars a year plus you have to have a job (or a spouse with a good enough job) to let you take time off to shuffle little Timmy from one side of the country to another to do it.

A basketball is $20 and you can play in neighborhood parks.

You can work through the rest.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,238
10,813
136
Wow dude. You confuse a lack of opportunity with a lack of desire to participate.

The US has a huge problem with lack of opportunity. Soccer is popular all around the world because it is crazy cheap to play. You need a relatively flat field, some rocks to mark the goal and corners, and a ball. But in the US pretty much the only way to play is through leagues, and nearly every even decent player ends up on a competitive traveling team with paid coaches. The way you get into college is off these club teams, not school teams. Baseball is similar, in my city there are multiple paid Teeball teams. They of course then destroy the rec league for everyone else as they suck up all the better kids like a vacuum at a very early age. Again, from my understanding, the kids getting into college from baseball are the ones on club teams, not the ones that only play through the schools. The days of playing in the sandlot, and then walking onto the JV team are gone.

I think basketball and football are still much more secondary school centered, so poorer kids have much more opportunity to participate at a high level.

You also then have the issue of minorities being more likely to live in denser locations without open fields, even at their schools, and you are really limiting the opportunity to participate.

There is also the issues of the best athletes will chase the best opportunities. In the US, that appears to be basketball and football for men, especially poorer men. Maybe baseball/hockey for more wealthy men. But the best male athletes in the US for the most part do not go into soccer because there are not many D1 male teams, and the pro opportunities are fewer, lower paid, and less prestigious. Big reason our national men's team sucks, in other countries the best athletes go into soccer in the US it gets or 4th or 5th string. But women in the US completely different story, tons of D1 teams, and one of the few female sports with a real pro-league, and likewise our national team is great.

Baseball has also changed in the last 20 years, now every player on the field except the catcher and pitcher are chosen for the offensive abilities (Strength, hand-eye coordination), not their defense (athleticism). By stereotypes, blacks have an advantage with pure athleticism, but now with that not weighted as highly they may have a harder time beating out the competition and the sport returns back being representative of the general population.
 

pete6032

Diamond Member
Dec 3, 2010
7,668
3,210
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I noticed that Joe Buck isn't broadcasting the World Series. They probably got fed up with complaints about him.
His contract with FOX ended and he's working for ESPN now. Can't call the World Series if it's on FOX.
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,316
10,814
136
Baseball requires large prepared fields and upkeep.
Minority neighborhoods usually lose out on funding those types of projects and real estate developers usually nab up property like that.

In neighborhoods where fields exist, then it gets complicated.
Sports participation is driven by parents and needs to to start at young age. Once you get past the early years, it's parent enthusiasm that tends to keep kids in it.
If the dad played baseball as a kid then the son will. If mom was a volleyball player the daughter will likely be on a team. Same goes for track. Parents like to shove their kids into the familiar.
If grandpa never played because his congressman funnelled money to white neighborhoods and the few open fields were sold off to real estate developers to fund a beautification project in a more " desirable " neighborhood, then dad is unlikely to give a shit about playing baseball. If dad doesn't give a shit ..neither does the son.
By the time high school sports comes around, those kids are playing in more familiar sports.

Then you have big reason when baseball is a legacy sport and not exactly filled with new faces.
Boring as fuck, long as fuck and you can't be sure when the damn game is going to end.

If you want more diversity in baseball, you have to fund and maintain fields and incentivize communities to start up orgs that will put the fields to use and giving parents a reason to sit on benches for hours in the blazing sun.

Or even better, screw that and build science and education centers were kids can instead volunteer and do real stuff that matters.

I recall hearing an editorial to this effect 20 years ago on NYC News 880 discussing the reasons there are now so few African-Americans in MLB and they said all the same stuff.

Would we ever see guys like Dwight Gooden, Dave Stewart or Frank Robinson these days? Frankly I doubt it and that's really sad.

 
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dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
14,635
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Hockey, for example, is horrendously expensive, and requires an expensive, specialized arena - an ice rink. So the requirements to even play the game mean it's more likely to occur in wealthy, suburban areas with the space to build an ice rink in the first place (which, in America, basically means white people).

I used to live in North Dakota, and that gear is crazy expensive. Even assuming your kid is amazing and gets a college scholarship, you're probably still breaking even with what you've spent on gear/fees etc since they were 4 or 5.
 
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