Basis for Bigotry?

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imported_Tango

Golden Member
Mar 8, 2005
1,623
0
0
Originally posted by: yllus
Hmm, let me see if I can actually give you something concrete to think about.

1) The French tend to take contradictory views mostly for the sake of garnering attention. If America/the U.K. say the sun is hot, France will immediately release a statement to say it's cold. While opposing points of view are healthy and useful, it gets a little bit obvious and annoying at times. Especially when it's done 90% of the time.

2) Hypocrisy. I remember almost laughing out loud when I read France's President threaten to use nuclear weapons to retaliate in the case of terrorist attacks occurring on French soil. But France's position on Iran, a known provacateur in the Middle East (in concrete terms, by funding and funneling weapons to the terrorist group Hezbollah), is rather cozy. I imagine they wouldn't really be too fond of Israel nuking Iran, but hey, it's okay for France to threaten as much!

3) Racism. France (and Quebec in Canada) has a major problem with racism and the intolerance of other cultures than their own. There's a distinct cold shoulder being given to non-Caucasian immigrants, while the great irony is that the only natively French-speaking immigrants France or Quebec are likely to recieve are from countries like Algeria, Lebanon and Morocco. Yet these people are massively rejected, marginalized and isolated from the upper reaches of French society.

4) Cultural bigotry. French culture, by most benchmarks, is likely spiralling to its demise. This has made the native French more intolerant of other cultures and languages than ever, and it becomes expressed even in the country's laws. No religious headwear allowed in state schools? A law like that would mean near-civil war in the United States, but we know which country is derided for being provincial and intolerant more often than the other... Quebec and their French-only sign law is a joke unto itself.

5) Fiscal policies only a mother could love. France had a youth unemployment rate of 22% mostly attributable to the wackjob employment contracts mandated in the country, yet attempts to reform those laws were massively rebuffed and even generated incidents of violence on the nation's streets. Get with the program already - people don't have a right to a job. You're essentially enslaving business owners.


Very interesting debate for me, considering I live six months a year in New York and six months in Paris, and I am not French nor American. I've always been amused by this phenomenon.

Let's see some of these points:

Point 1) They often think differently. Fact is usually most of the world think like them, not like americans. Matter of fact, if you would ask randomly who's always doing things differently than other people, most people wouls say the British, not the Frenchs. Stanrting from still using the silly pound/gallon/miles system everybody else but a few anglophone countries has abandoned for a reason.

Point 2) Hypocrisy is the base of all politics in all countries. This one really doesn't fit in this list.

Point 3) Kinda true. I feel white Frenchs are often more racist than many New Yorkers. I don't know many people from different parts of the country. Some people here in the US do tell me racism is still a big issue in many areas, but I have no direct experience with that.

Point 4) Laughable. Frenchs are by definition Libertines. In fact, most of the reason why French people make fun of Americans is because of their puritanism. You should also consider that French-produced culture is probably the most important in the world together with the German and british, depending on the subject/period. French artists, literati, philosophers, scientists and economists just shaped the world as we know it and a way that makes western culture and civilization unthinkable without those inputs.

Point 5) True, but this has no effect on the life of American people, does it? French people like those policies, voted the people who envisioned them... so if it's good for them I have no problem with it. Let any country decide for their own domestic fiscal policies.
While I disagree with many of France's economic policies I might however note that it's partly because of those policies that people enjoy life so much more down there than here in the US. You can't get everything at the same time. But you'd be surprised how many people in Europe wouldn't give up their 35-hours-a-week jobs for a million dollars contract requiring you the 90-hours-a-week schedules many financial analysts are doing here in New York.

Point 6) Quote:
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
American men hate the fact the Frenchmen are better lovers and more sexually attractive to women.

This must be true, based on the fact that usually American males dislike French guys, but I never heard American females having any issue with them. The opposite is actually also true. Almost every american guy I know who travelled to Paris has at least 50 times told me about how sexy French girls were, while complaining about guys. Kinda funny.
As a sidenote, I would remark how the thousands of young american college girls spending a semester in Paris are usually quite vocal about the amount of action they are getting.

Now some other metropolitan myths I have noticed and should be debunked:

French people often consider Americans gross and uneducated. Many French people think so. It's basically a cultural issue. European in general fail to consider somebody educated unless he/she is competent on subject often perceived as less important in the US. Many people I know in Paris would consider a Physics Ph.D gross if he had no clue about art history or literature. Cultural specialization is so much more extreem in the United States academic world.

French people are unpolite. I have to say, often true. Especially Parisians. It's probably the only place in the world where people selling you stuff treat you badly while doing business with you. And I mean even shopgirls, bartenders and waitresses. Some people think this is charming, I personally don't and hate this.

French people are arrogant. Again I hate to say this, but yes, they often are. Again mostly Parisians.

French and Americans use double-standards. Cross-accusations here. I might say everybody in the world does it, but it's interesting nobody ever recognize it.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
All I have to say is that the country which gave us Sophie Marceau can't be all bad.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
Originally posted by: LazyB
Number 3 is completely wrong my friend. I am a immigrant living in Quebec and I have had chance to travel in much of Canada and USA, Quebec people is the most tolerant people you will find in N.A. They are not RACIST, they're honest , simple people and they will tell you in the face if they don't like you. They tend to protect their language, that's why they don't appreciate English taking place too much in their society but they won't give you cold shoulder because of your skin color. I've lived here for 20 years and the few times I got racist remarks come from , ironically, anglophones or immigrants. Actually, you ask anyone who lives in Montreal, Quebec about racism and they'll tell you that it's everywhere but no where near the level you'll see in big US cities.

However, Quebecers don't like French that much neither. French like to make fun of Quebecers and the opposite is true.
I have to ask - are you white? Because I remember with some amusement that I had but to mention that I was from out of town, and countless Lebanese wait staff or friends of the person I was staying with would go off entirely on their own and talk about the biting racism they encountered on a daily basis in Quebec. I wasn't asking leading questions or anything of the sort in the least.

Ditto with the other Arabs, and Moroccans, that I've talked to over the years as I make more trips into the city. I doubt I'm just asking people with really bad luck.

I'd reply more but I'm sort of worn out from the working day. Maybe later. Have a good evening everyone.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
Originally posted by: BlancoNino
Take it like the french = letting the Nazi's take over France and making it way more difficult for other countries to fight Germany.

This one seems to be really popular here in the states. Fact is, EVERYONE performed poorly faced with the blitzkrieg at first. Why did Russia survive? Because Russia is so big and even with the Blitskrieg, they still had room to retreat. They lost the equivalent of several countries the size of France to the Germans before they were able to put up a fight. Why did Great Britain survive? Because of the channel (Which William the conqueror successfully crossed from france by the way). End of story. The British got smashed into Dunkirk just like the French did.

Militarily, France has performed like most other European countries, a lot of wins and a lot of losses. In the end, over most of modern history (not just focusing on the 20th century here), France has held the largest territory in Western Europe with a population smaller or equal to its neighbors. Not too shabby. And of course it's sad to think so many Americans act so obnoxious about WW2 when France helped so much in the Revolutionary War.

Finally, a lot of people visit Paris and confuse Paris with France. Parisians are a lot like New Yorkers, for better and worse.

 

imported_michaelpatrick33

Platinum Member
Jun 19, 2004
2,364
0
0
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: BlancoNino
Take it like the french = letting the Nazi's take over France and making it way more difficult for other countries to fight Germany.

This one seems to be really popular here in the states. Fact is, EVERYONE performed poorly faced with the blitzkrieg at first. Why did Russia survive? Because Russia is so big and even with the Blitskrieg, they still had room to retreat. They lost the equivalent of several countries the size of France to the Germans before they were able to put up a fight. Why did Great Britain survive? Because of the channel (Which William the conqueror successfully crossed from france by the way). End of story. The British got smashed into Dunkirk just like the French did.

Militarily, France has performed like most other European countries, a lot of wins and a lot of losses. In the end, over most of modern history (not just focusing on the 20th century here), France has held the largest territory in Western Europe with a population smaller or equal to its neighbors. Not too shabby. And of course it's sad to think so many Americans act so obnoxious about WW2 when France helped so much in the Revolutionary War.

Finally, a lot of people visit Paris and confuse Paris with France. Parisians are a lot like New Yorkers, for better and worse.

I spent a little time in France (not Paris) and I had no issues with their men or their women. They treated me normally and respectfully and vice versa. (I am Caucasian American)
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,570
6,434
126
Originally posted by: michaelpatrick33
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: BlancoNino
Take it like the french = letting the Nazi's take over France and making it way more difficult for other countries to fight Germany.

This one seems to be really popular here in the states. Fact is, EVERYONE performed poorly faced with the blitzkrieg at first. Why did Russia survive? Because Russia is so big and even with the Blitskrieg, they still had room to retreat. They lost the equivalent of several countries the size of France to the Germans before they were able to put up a fight. Why did Great Britain survive? Because of the channel (Which William the conqueror successfully crossed from france by the way). End of story. The British got smashed into Dunkirk just like the French did.

Militarily, France has performed like most other European countries, a lot of wins and a lot of losses. In the end, over most of modern history (not just focusing on the 20th century here), France has held the largest territory in Western Europe with a population smaller or equal to its neighbors. Not too shabby. And of course it's sad to think so many Americans act so obnoxious about WW2 when France helped so much in the Revolutionary War.

Finally, a lot of people visit Paris and confuse Paris with France. Parisians are a lot like New Yorkers, for better and worse.

I spent a little time in France (not Paris) and I had no issues with their men or their women. They treated me normally and respectfully and vice versa. (I am Caucasian American)

Sounds to me like you are 33rd generation Irish and probably kissed the Blarney Stone like me.
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,060
1
0
People are just so upset the the french got stomped by what was at the time the most militarist countries on earth, where prior to its unification one of its primary exports were mercenaries. Germany was often refered to as "an army with a state." Since the americans had such an easy time in france in '44 and '45 (after the russians had already smashed the germans) they assumed that we were superhuman and whatever, when in realitive, from before we had a boot on the ground of normandy, we were fighting a beaten enemy.
 

imported_michaelpatrick33

Platinum Member
Jun 19, 2004
2,364
0
0
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
People are just so upset the the french got stomped by what was at the time the most militarist countries on earth, where prior to its unification one of its primary exports were mercenaries. Germany was often refered to as "an army with a state." Since the americans had such an easy time in france in '44 and '45 (after the russians had already smashed the germans) they assumed that we were superhuman and whatever, when in realitive, from before we had a boot on the ground of normandy, we were fighting a beaten enemy.

Talk about revisionist theory. The Americans had an easy time in 44 and 45 after the Russians smashed the Germans? Yeah ok, :roll: . I don't seem to recall too many Russians on the Western front fighting the Germans (headed by Rommel incidentally until his ridiculous sacking and forced suicide due to his "involvement" in the Hitler assassination attempt). Yes, the eastern front pulled many troops and materials away from France/Normandy but the Germans were hardly beaten by June 44. The Allied invasion was a brilliant campaign but to say it was the result of the Germans already being beaten is plain ridiculous. The combined Italian, Eastern and Western fronts (as well as the massive arial bombardment) all combined for the German defeat. There was nothing easy about the American Allied campaign.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
Originally posted by: MagnusTheBrewer
As a Chef trained primarily in classical French cuisine, I can honestly say that the many French Chef's I have worked with definitely earned the French reputation for being the dirtiest people on earth.
Worse than Texans?
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: LunarRay
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
American men hate the fact the Frenchmen are better lovers and more sexually attractive to women.


You assume facts not in evidence.... hehehe

When was the last time you tried to win a girl away from a Frenchman. Doubtless you lack evidence because you are too smart to try or you've discovered that WOW is much better than sex.

Think of it from my POV.... I married a French Girl... now interpolate or extrapolate from that if you will... hehehhe
 

Theb

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
3,533
9
76
The Lance Armstrong debacle. Did anyone apologize yet?


Originally posted by: Tango
Frenchs are by definition Libertines. In fact, most of the reason why French people make fun of Americans is because of their puritanism.

Yep, I've read about how confused the French were that the U.S. wanted to prosecute Roman Polanski for something as reasonably moral as drugging and raping a 13 year old girl :roll:

 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,570
6,434
126
Originally posted by: LunarRay
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: LunarRay
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
American men hate the fact the Frenchmen are better lovers and more sexually attractive to women.


You assume facts not in evidence.... hehehe

When was the last time you tried to win a girl away from a Frenchman. Doubtless you lack evidence because you are too smart to try or you've discovered that WOW is much better than sex.

Think of it from my POV.... I married a French Girl... now interpolate or extrapolate from that if you will... hehehhe

For every stereotype there is the statistical anomaly. There are surely one or two American men more appealing to French or American women than the average Frenchman. And besides, you think very weird and can hardly be called American. When was the last time you went to a football game?
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
By phrasing the question the way you did, maybe the comeback is why do you hate America?

1. The French were on the security council.

2. The French are in love with slave labor produced by the underpaid class of Muslims that live in their country.

3. The French were the ones helping Sadam to build his prisons and knew he killed and tortured his own people on a regular basis. Yet they supported Sadam, because their French Oil Companies were getting rich off of the work they were doing for Sadam.

This all shows that the French cared more about money than the security of the free world.
 

Mavrick

Senior member
Mar 11, 2001
524
0
0
For many people (outside France and US), the frenches are considered the americans of europe, that is, because they mostly act the same way when you meet them.

1-Both talk loudly, are quite arrogant and really act to catch the most attention possible.

2-Both can never speak the local language of the city they are in when travelling.

3-Both take for granted that their country is THE place to be, and whine when they realize that the place they are right now is not exactly like Paris/New York/Houston

4-Neither are interested to observe and learn from the place they are visiting. They want to see stuff, then brag about how France/USA has better.

Maybe that's why frenchmen and americans dislike themselves so much, they are way too similar!
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,570
6,434
126
Originally posted by: Mavrick
For many people (outside France and US), the frenches are considered the americans of europe, that is, because they mostly act the same way when you meet them.

1-Both talk loudly, are quite arrogant and really act to catch the most attention possible.

2-Both can never speak the local language of the city they are in when travelling.

3-Both take for granted that their country is THE place to be, and whine when they realize that the place they are right now is not exactly like Paris/New York/Houston

4-Neither are interested to observe and learn from the place they are visiting. They want to see stuff, then brag about how France/USA has better.

Maybe that's why frenchmen and americans dislike themselves so much, they are way too similar!
My dear sir, this is the basis of all dislike because what we dislike the most is ourselves.

 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
2
0
A lot of it has to due with the French (and many other Europeans) belief in their supposed inherent supremacy. Hitler is a popular folk hero in Europe nowadays.

The economic, cultural, military, etc. decline of Europe is bringing a change.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
:music: The girls is all salty, and boys is all sweet. The food ain't too shabby, and they piss in the street, down in France. :music:

They're like us but not us; thus are the target for jokes. Sort of like each joke about a state or university changes by which one you're in, not the content.
 
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