Yea most of what I wrote was my own interpretation after the fact.
During the movie I was sitting there going...was Batman's mom's name Martha too? Why are they showing this gravestone?
This is the problem with two moody main characters who don't talk much. This works in a comic where they use a thought bubble for internal dialogue, but it doesn't translate well to the big screen.
Thanks.. I knew people that really liked it would come up with some kind of justification for what happened, but they way ImpulsE69 talked about vision, I couldn't help but think I missed something.
I did groan a bit when I saw he wrote (or co-wrote) the movie. His track record isn't that great. Even then I tried to give it a go. It's just a bad movie. The concepts they play with aren't bad (I like the question of if power corrupts then what about a creature like Superman that's way beyond our scope of power), it's just the movie gets itself bogged down badly by it. Sadly it just says "fuck it" at one point and it just gives up trying to tell a cohesive story.
I still giggle at Wonder Woman just jumping in from I guess the top of the building (no clue why she went up there) and her soundtrack kicks in. It was like the movie wanted me to know without doubt that things just went to a new level.
Thanks.. I knew people that really liked it would come up with some kind of justification for what happened, but they way ImpulsE69 talked about vision, I couldn't help but think I missed something.
I did groan a bit when I saw he wrote (or co-wrote) the movie. His track record isn't that great. Even then I tried to give it a go. It's just a bad movie. The concepts they play with aren't bad (I like the question of if power corrupts then what about a creature like Superman that's way beyond our scope of power), it's just the movie gets itself bogged down badly by it. Sadly it just says "fuck it" at one point and it just gives up trying to tell a cohesive story.
I still giggle at Wonder Woman just jumping in from I guess the top of the building (no clue why she went up there) and her soundtrack kicks in. It was like the movie wanted me to know without doubt that things just went to a new level.
The vision did happen, but the viewer (and most people I am assuming) didn't understand it. I didn't understand it at the time until I had time to think about it. Heck I didn't know who the person through the portal was until I read it here.
The vision did happen, but the viewer (and most people I am assuming) didn't understand it. I didn't understand it at the time until I had time to think about it. Heck I didn't know who the person through the portal was until I read it here.
Which Vision are you talking about? The only visions I remember are the ones where Superman is a dictator. I don't remember any visions that Batman had that painted Superman in anything other than the worst light.
Which Vision are you talking about? The only visions I remember are the ones where Superman is a dictator. I don't remember any visions that Batman had that painted Superman in anything other than the worst light.
The vision Batman had at the end, was also earlier in the movie when he started having all those visions; there were many - so the 2nd time as he's asking why Superman was saying 'that name' was a flashback. I'm referring to the one that shows the tomb with Martha Wayne's name on it. Again, the visions and such were not done well and very confusing. I didn't like them.
The vision Batman had at the end, was also earlier in the movie when he started having all those visions; there were many - so the 2nd time as he's asking why Superman was saying 'that name' was a flashback. I'm referring to the one that shows the tomb with Martha Wayne's name on it. Again, the visions and such were not done well and very confusing. I didn't like them.
I thought of that 'vision' after I asked you. Its still really really bad story telling.
Even with him flashing back to his own mother (which is very odd that after all these decades of reading and working in comics I've never noticed both of them had mother's with the same name) it makes no real sense that it would cause him to just drop his beef. He had a logical argument and it was presented well enough, to just drop it as if it was important all because they had something in common was stupid. If anything Batman should have taken him out and then saved his mother.
I liked MoS more, but BvS isnt a bad movie, it just could have been much better. It's way better than the Daredevil movie. I probably wont see it again until its out on Blu-ray so I can see the directors cut.
I must have zoned out, the only visions I remember him having were all the "Superman is going to kill us all unless you stop him" type. The closest to normal was when the Flash was breaking through the time barrier (I think that is how that could go?) and was telling him he was right about "him". Even that lead us and him to believe that Superman must be killed. The moment he changed and became BFFs was really bad. He literally just went from about to using the magic spear to suddenly teaming up. No explanation, no real overcoming whatever.
I took it as a combination of Batman's premonition, combined with Flash's message from the future, and seeing Superman being humanized when he used his last breath to try to get Batman to save his mother, and even Lois showing up at his side to show that he's loved like any other person, not an alien demigod. And being Batman he probably put two and two together and realized something wasnt right, but he was too blinded by rage to see it before that moment. In this movie Lex is way smarter than Batman. Batman even knew Lex was involved and didnt see it coming. He's still Batman though, and once he realized he was played there's no need to continue the beef. One thing that I cant really argue though is that in this movie Batman is a killer, so it might have been more consistent if he stabbed Superman anyway. And that would have been fine if the fight happened earlier in the movie, but since it happened so late they needed to just move on.
I actually thought Lex's scheme was pretty well thought out, although his motivation is still unclear. It appears he put this plan in motion to get Batman to kill Superman for Darkseid, although its not clear how he became aware of Darkseid. He eludes to a mother box during the prison scene, but I dont think there was any indication that Darkseid was even in play, just in Batman's premonition. (EDIT: Apparently in Cyborg's video file that his father was using a mother box to create Cyborg's body. Its different looking than what I remember. So if Lex has that video then by extension he must have found out about the mother box and maybe even got his hands on it.) Flash telling Bruce about Lois being the key is directly related to his premonition because in it Superman says something like Batman let Lois die. So maybe Flash is screwing things up by traveling in time, and a side effect is Batman was able to see the potential future. Maybe Lex saw something similar.
Maybe it was lost in editing. I thought I remember seeing images of Lex in the Fortress of Solitude, but it definitely wasnt in the movie. And Lex didnt get access to the Kryptonian ship until after his plan was already in motion. There is definitely something significant missing story wise to account for Darkseid references in this movie. It could also just be sloppy writing. Even though it was a long movie, it kinda feels like we only saw half of it. I'm kinda filling things in based on what I've read in comics and what I've seen in the animated TV series and movies, so I could be giving the movie more credit than it deserves.
Disagree. The movie had great potential and the action scenes were awesome, however the storytelling was absolute SSHH!!TT. THAT, and that alone, was the biggest complaint I had.
When I first saw the trailer my initial reaction was "uh oh...looks like a total shitshow". Unfortunately the reviews and people I've talked to seem to agree with that original assessment. Looks good financially though lol.
Going to watch it this afternoon though, probably with at least three drinks in me.
Disclaimer (yeah, I think it's necessary, DC "fans" and purists out there can be without mercy, even for something as small as a Batman's Batfart not being canon enough): I'm not an "expert" of the DC universe. The only DC comics I've actually read entirely was the Doomsday arc (started with the issues of "Doomsday!") that lead to 1992's Death of Superman (and I didn't read that back in 1992; I've read them only a couple of years ago). Now of course, I've heard and briefly read about other comics and arcs (such as Infinite Crisis, etc), but never really sought to read them, lack of general interest in doing so (not because I dislike the DC universe, but just because I'm not that fond of comics in general; although I did make an "exception" for the Doomsday arc, mostly because it had been highly recommend to me at the time).
After that, I've seen most DC-related movies, from Richard Donner's Superman, passing by Tim Burton's and Nolan's Batman, including the surprising Snyder's Watchmen, all the way to BvS. Then, video games, at least ones that include lore and story development, such as DC Universe Online (which I do think is the best one when it comes to the amount of lore included when it comes to video games). So what follows comes from just a guy who happens to really like the DC universe, it's fun stuff, I enjoy it. But that's it. That's without claiming to be an expert about it, nor that I claim knowing how this or that character "should" act, etc. Basically, the gist is if you disagree with me, fine. But if you disagree because I look like someone who knows "nothing" about the DC universe, that's probably because it IS the case, so take it with a grain of salt, and well, just give me a break.
*** WARNING, MAJOR SPOILERS ***
PROS
- Good action scenes. That's generally speaking, because there's some weak points in them here and there. Mostly nitpicking. For example, overall really liked Wonder Woman's fight with Doomsday, but the camera doesn't stick on them both for long enough, cuts to other scenes, then back to them, then angles don't show enough of either one or the other, then zooms away too far, then only becomes a glimpse of... say... Doomsday punching her, or her quickly shield bashing his calf, then ooops, cuts to another part with Batman or something. Seriously, STOP, please, stop it Show me the fight, good lord.
- Good (albeit too short) Doomsday fight.
- Good (albeit underdeveloped) Wonder Woman. I particularly liked how this movie FINALLY shows what Wonder Woman IS capable of. She can hold her ground against Doomsday, simply because she IS essentially as strong as Superman. Don't come up with that "DUDE LOLZ YOUZ CRAZAY!?! SUPES IS LIKE... DUDE... LIKE 200% WW, 111001011010110LOL!". No, Supes is what he is because he's the icon of the DC universe. He will never die, and never be surpassed, simply because writers went Batshit crazy with him over the decades. The guy can destroy a solar system with a SNEEZE, and I'm supposed to consider that canon? Give me a damn break! Superman's "capabilities" have become a satire of themselves, there's no set "standard" with him, he is infinite, period, and that's stupid. I'll make my own head canon now before the next thing we know is Superman being able to reach another dimension universe's buthole by taking a piss. Wonder Woman is 100% Superman, now leave me alone. And for the people around who only rely on movies for "canon info", for the ones who had "doubts" about her (especially those NOT knowing much about the DC universe) can shut up already. She kicks some serious ass. I just wish we'd have seen more of her (and ermmm... by that I mean more of her fighting. Pfffff...)
- Really liked the intro scene, seeing the fight between Supes and Zod from Bruce's perspective as he desperately tries his best to get to his tower, credits where due, that was a good scene.
- Decent Flash cameo (referring to the "better" one, during Bruce's dream while the files were being decoded). I wanted more, sure. I like the Flash. But I can understand why he wasn't included more than that. Still, it was a very interesting "intro". I have the feeling that we'll see the origins of that scene in the next movie (I.E. it wasn't just a dream, and Flash truly ran through time to warn Bruce about something; interesting scene)
- Was a good overall setup for being the first movie of a trilogy that's going to introduce the Justice League. Not an easy task. Trying to compress the intro of the Trinity, let alone introducing Flash and Aquaman along the way (even via mere cameos), would have been difficult to do in a single 2h30m movie for ANY director out there. What they managed to do with BvS was - overall - actually decent (well, I'd say it was good, considering DC's position with their movies).
CONS
- Very few (if zero) emotion-inducing scenes (or script). By emotion I don't mean just sadness. I mean that generally speaking I remained neutral for most of the movie, didn't really laugh, barely smiled, never became sad. The only "emotions" I felt was some genuine terror when Doomsday showed up. That's probably because I actually liked that Doomsday! story arc I read those years back, and immersed myself in the context enough to imagine how truly terrifying and terrorizing it would be to have such a monster ravaging life and matter without regard for... anything, even himself. To me, within the DC universe, Doomsday is the ultimate manifestation of evil, a true monster in the purest form and meaning possible (then again, I'm saying this based on what I DO know of the DC universe). But yeah, other than that part... kept a straight face for pretty much everything else.
- The pacing of different scenes during the first 30 or 40 mins or so was completely all over the place, very much a mess. For me, it was tough to follow (or understand) properly. Too many scenes tried to tell too many things in a short period of time, and they lost me for the most part. They ended up being relatively irrelevant or simply meaningless (or didn't provide enough info / didn't help setup much context)
- I didn't need to see Batman's "origin" story... AGAIN. We get it (most of us by now do, no?), his parents got killed in front of him. I've known about that part since... wow, wait it's been that long? Since Tim Burton's Batman (for me anyway). Please, WB, STOP TELLING US, that way you can use 15 to 20 mins in your next movies to develop other characters (or develop Batman himself a little more, sure why not; just stop it already with his family dying, we KNOW NOW). I was in fact surprised when I saw in I believe it was the first trailer, that they would include his origin story (even if it was short), especially considering that... well... you know, Nolan's Batman TRILOGY wasn't recent enough I suppose? That's of course not mentioning that Nolan's trilogy sure as heck isn't the only one in which Batman's origin story was told. But then again, Hollywood is gonna Hollywood, what can we do about that huh?
- Lex Luthor (well, the son) was rather horrible. His script, and especially the acting for the character was weak. I'm sorry, but Jesse's acting was just bad. That's just me I guess, but I just couldn't stand that "Lex". Nope. The only sort-of-decent scene with him, I thought, was the one when he enters the ship, gains some control of it and "creates" Doomsday, that's about it. The rest, wow... it's bad. That last scene in the jail? Ding ding ding ding? Wanna do some pseudo meaningful ding ding ding tonight babe? Yep, I also like ding dings, lots of dings in life to consider. WTF was that. Was I supposed to feel something for him? To understand that he was... what, starting to "lose his mind" right there? That he was somehow more in control of himself prior to that? Cringe worthy. If I missed something "obvious", please DO tell me.
- Poor, meaningless (other than being his intro) Aquaman cameo. I felt nothing neither for the context he was "found" in, nor for the character himself. When I saw WW going for a click on Aquaman's file to see what was up with "that other Meta Human" I thought to myself "HOLY CRAP YEAH! Bring it baby!" (I like Aquaman, a lot). Then the next thing you know... hummm, he's just... "there", he exists, now we know about him, yeepee... k, now what's next? (they better give him good screen time in the next movie). At least Flash's cameo seemingly had some (perhaps potential) meaning, time travel or something, might be a connection for a scene in the next movie. But Aquaman's? Was he taking a nap in that ship wreck and got woken up by a passing by submersible that just happened to film him by pure coincidence? Oooookay. Well thanks for showing him I guess?
- Ben's Batman was... not very good. Sorry for the Batman lovers out there who'd be ready to love ANY Batman portrayals. His portrayal of Bruce Wayne was alright, that much I can say, but his Batman was "meh", at best. Not bad per se. I think that it was a case of a good actor (well, of an actor who CAN be good) with a weak script specifically for Batman. I definitely preferred him as Bruce Wayne. Additionally, the Batman's fight scene that was shown in the final trailer ended up completely removing any "feeling", or almost the entire relevance it would have had, and interest I would have had for the character (and the context) had I seen it as a surprise in the movie. Seriously, STOP MAKING TRAILERS WITH 90% OF A SCENE IN THEM, please. Just stop doing that. It REALLY had to be THAT fight scene for the trailer? It was THE best scene for Batman in the entire movie (in my opinion), they just happened to put most of it in the damn trailer. And I'm saying this because, really, the fight between Batman and Superman was... disappointing.
- Cavill's Superman... well, I mean Cavill's acting in BvS was a bit... lacky, No? I thought so. I preferred his acting in Man of Steel. Something went a bit wrong in BvS. I'm not sure if it's his script, or perhaps the direction from Snyder (possible I guess). It wasn't "bad", but it definitely wasn't on par with Man of Steel's Superman. His acting in MoS felt more, how can I put it... precise? Accurate? I mean given the context, his portrayal of Superman in MoS felt more plausible (and yeah this wasn't a spoiler per se but at this point I'm just copying and pasting the spoiler code on everything just in case)
- The Doomsday fight stole the show (as far as fights go), but it was too short. Understandably, because of course the movie was about Batman versus Superman, I get that. The problem is that part (the BvS part) was overall not that great (in fact, from the moment Batman and Superman actually start to fight on the rooftop, up to the moment Superman mentions his mother's name and they stop, wasn't that long of a fight; I understand though, had it been too long Batman might have died about a hundred times). The arrival of Doomsday was impressive, even if I knew he'd be there. Nonetheless, Doomsday is properly intimidating, and surprisingly terrifying (he IS supposed to be terrifying, I think they managed to do that just well enough). That fight was the most entertaining portion of the movie. Also, we should NOT have known about Doomsday, PERIOD. He SHOULD have been THE movie twist / punch of 2016.
- Last, but not least, Superman's "death" WAS predictable the moment we knew Doomsday would be in the movie (and by "we", I mean people who know enough about the DC universe), thanks to that stupid Doomsday reveal in the 2nd trailer. I went in the theaters actually expecting to see both Doomsday and Superman die. The problem with him "dying" is that it brings no relevance nor emotion (in my opinion) because we ALL known that Superman cannot die. So obviously, they'll come up with a "reason" for the next movie to bring him back. Either he was merely "unconscious for a while", or Energizer's Bunny is gonna give him the boost of the century, whatever they come up with, Superman is gonna be in the next movie of this trilogy. The gist is... even though his "death" was necessary (because of Doomsday), it really wasn't much of a surprise. However, if anything, I suppose that the 'funeral' portion of the movie was alright, and an obvious nod / homage to the one in 1992's Death of Superman (comics).
CONCLUSION
*** NO SPOILERS ***
All in all, it was a solid and entertaining movie, fun to watch (did not ultimately regret paying for it, it was worth it overall), enjoyable enough I believe for people who simply like action-packed movies with / about super heroes. You don't NEED to love the DC universe to at least appreciate BvS to some extent. I came out of the theaters feeling about the same as I did for The Force Awakens. Meaning: being a good overall sci-fi movie, enjoyable as such without being a fan of the Star Wars universe; simply fun to watch if taken with a grain of salt, only to be entertained and nothing more. So, no, Batman V. Superman is not "great", but it's definitely not bad. It's solid, but I've seen better (better super hero movies, in general, not just ones related to the DC universe).
If I had a score to give it, I'd go with a 7/10. I might have given it a 6/10 had Doomsday not been in the movie at all, because - ultimately - I thought he was the movie's highlight.
The movie was no where are bad as the reviews said it was. I do not like Batman using guns. The writing was all over the place. The base story was fine but poorly presented. I get the idea that too many people were trying to make the film meaningful as a launch for the new universe and just messed it up. Still had good battle scenes in it.
As for the background info, I went to the movie in China with my Chinese GF and she did not know that Superman was an alien and she was confused about who the little kid was with the parents being killed. So we cannot assume that everyone knows the story and a certain amount of background is needed.
- Good (albeit underdeveloped) Wonder Woman. I particularly liked how this movie FINALLY shows what Wonder Woman IS capable of. She can hold her ground against Doomsday, simply because she IS essentially as strong as Superman.
I liked when Doomsday punched the crap out of her, then she smiled, picked up her sword and went back in for more. They really captured her fighting spirit. Kinda made me more interested in her solo movie, but I don't know who she's gonna fight in 1918 that will give her a good fight.
To be honest, I didn't see the fight that well though. I thought maybe it was the 3D or something because there didn't seem to be enough detail or everything was framed just a little too far away. I just rewatched MoS and those were some fight scenes. Superman or any of the Kryptonians from MoS would have beaten Doomsday straight up, but I guess he was kinda messed up from the Kryptonite and depowered beating he took. And not to mention the nuke. Although I guess Superman would have won earlier when he was knocking Doomsday into outer space. A couple more punches and he would have been drifting to Mars.
- Lex Luthor (well, the son) was rather horrible. <SNIP>The rest, wow... it's bad. That last scene in the jail? Ding ding ding ding? Wanna do some pseudo meaningful ding ding ding tonight babe? Yep, I also like ding dings, lots of dings in life to consider. WTF was that. Was I supposed to feel something for him? To understand that he was... what, staring to "lose his mind" right there? That he was somehow more in control of himself prior to that? Cringe worthy. If I missed something "obvious", please DO tell me.
I just saw it. Spoilers (Some VERY major) below. It's 3am though, don't expect any good writing lol
Overall I liked the movie.
I liked all the characters. Affleck's batman was very dark and brooding, superman was still that kinda cheesy "too perfect hair" guy, wonder woman had good fight scenes and matched her comic persona once the battle started (But I thought her alias was too human-y) and Lex was played FANTASTICALLY. He kind of reminded me of wilson fisk from daredevil season 1, played insane very well.
Wonder Woman's theme was horrible, and used poorly. The visions were also poorly done, though I think they had a tiny bit of potental.
Oh boy, ok I completely, entirely forgot about that. I'm sure I've read about that before. Thanks for clarifying that one out. I stand corrected and now I suppose it makes more sense (also, on second though: I guess that learning knowledge from hundreds of worlds from the ships' "A.I.", which probably wasn't meant for a mere human brain, didn't help with his case of already-unstable-sanity). I still disliked his acting though, ugh.
I liked MoS more, but BvS isnt a bad movie, it just could have been much better. It's way better than the Daredevil movie. I probably wont see it again until its out on Blu-ray so I can see the directors cut.
I took it as a combination of Batman's premonition, combined with Flash's message from the future, and seeing Superman being humanized when he used his last breath to try to get Batman to save his mother, and even Lois showing up at his side to show that he's loved like any other person, not an alien demigod. And being Batman he probably put two and two together and realized something wasnt right, but he was too blinded by rage to see it before that moment. In this movie Lex is way smarter than Batman. Batman even knew Lex was involved and didnt see it coming. He's still Batman though, and once he realized he was played there's no need to continue the beef. One thing that I cant really argue though is that in this movie Batman is a killer, so it might have been more consistent if he stabbed Superman anyway. And that would have been fine if the fight happened earlier in the movie, but since it happened so late they needed to just move on.
I actually thought Lex's scheme was pretty well thought out, although his motivation is still unclear. It appears he put this plan in motion to get Batman to kill Superman for Darkseid, although its not clear how he became aware of Darkseid. He eludes to a mother box during the prison scene, but I dont think there was any indication that Darkseid was even in play, just in Batman's premonition. (EDIT: Apparently in Cyborg's video file that his father was using a mother box to create Cyborg's body. Its different looking than what I remember. So if Lex has that video then by extension he must have found out about the mother box and maybe even got his hands on it.) Flash telling Bruce about Lois being the key is directly related to his premonition because in it Superman says something like Batman let Lois die. So maybe Flash is screwing things up by traveling in time, and a side effect is Batman was able to see the potential future. Maybe Lex saw something similar.
Maybe it was lost in editing. I thought I remember seeing images of Lex in the Fortress of Solitude, but it definitely wasnt in the movie. And Lex didnt get access to the Kryptonian ship until after his plan was already in motion. There is definitely something significant missing story wise to account for Darkseid references in this movie. It could also just be sloppy writing. Even though it was a long movie, it kinda feels like we only saw half of it. I'm kinda filling things in based on what I've read in comics and what I've seen in the animated TV series and movies, so I could be giving the movie more credit than it deserves.
I still can't help but feel it's a bit of a stretch to make it work. I'm not saying you're wrong in what you're thinking what happened was what they intended, but I don't think that was in the movie. The Flash scene was pretty much a good example on how poorly it was thought out in regards to how it's explained to the viewers. Flash screaming at Batman about him being right about "Him" really could only be taken as Superman was going to go bad and take over the world. It was right after the other nightmare he had where Superman did. There wasn't any other visions at that point, nor anything to counter it. I wouldn't be surprised if in future movies we'll come back to it and it'll turn out Flash was talking about something else, but in this movie it's hard to see it being anything other than 'Superman has to go before he kills us all". Anything else is the audience knowing what we know about the character filling it in for them. I do however give you points for catching the Batman is killing people in this movie (stranger internet points always are the mostest important thing you can get.. even more so when I'm the one giving them to you! ) Most people that I've talked to about it missed it in the movie. I'm not as bent on it as I was Superman in MoS, but it makes him not killing Superman even more confusing. Like you said (and I think I also did earlier) at best I feel like Batman would tell Superman that he'll save his mother and then kill him.
As for Lex, the way they portrayed it in the movie (at least to me) was he also thought Superman should go before he did something bad. They only hinted at Darksied, and only people that know the comic/cartoon/video games would know what they were on about. Most of my non-comic friends hadn't a clue wtf he was on about. At the end of the movie they showed the painting hanging upside down now, which is what he mentioned earlier it should be that way as the devils were coming from above, IE: from space. he could just as easily been talking about Brainiac. That makes more sense as he's had time with the ship teaching him things so it may have told/called out to Brainiac. I wouldn't be surprised if Darkseid is coming (I'd be more surprised if he didn't show up), I'm just not 100% sure if it's part of Lex's stuff.
I still can't help but feel it's a bit of a stretch to make it work. I'm not saying you're wrong in what you're thinking what happened was what they intended, but I don't think that was in the movie. The Flash scene was pretty much a good example on how poorly it was thought out in regards to how it's explained to the viewers. Flash screaming at Batman about him being right about "Him" really could only be taken as Superman was going to go bad and take over the world. It was right after the other nightmare he had where Superman did. There wasn't any other visions at that point, nor anything to counter it. I wouldn't be surprised if in future movies we'll come back to it and it'll turn out Flash was talking about something else, but in this movie it's hard to see it being anything other than 'Superman has to go before he kills us all". Anything else is the audience knowing what we know about the character filling it in for them. I do however give you points for catching the Batman is killing people in this movie (stranger internet points always are the mostest important thing you can get.. even more so when I'm the one giving them to you! ) Most people that I've talked to about it missed it in the movie. I'm not as bent on it as I was Superman in MoS, but it makes him not killing Superman even more confusing. Like you said (and I think I also did earlier) at best I feel like Batman would tell Superman that he'll save his mother and then kill him.
Batman killing is another one of those instances where I think we are missing some footage. It was implied that this was Batman coming out of retirement in the prerelease hype, but we never really know that in the movie. I assume the death of Robin is what made him not worry about killing. It was implied in the trailer that the notes Bruce was receiving was from the Joker and it was linked to the Robin suit, but since we now know it was Lex the Robin suit reference is less clear. It was strange to see the Robin suit in the movie and not get any details on it, but I think this is in reference to either Suicide Squad, Red Hood, or a combination of the two. One thing I would definitely criticize the movie for is spending too much time setting up other movies. Anyways, I'll assume thats why Batman now takes off the gloves when dealing with criminals. Granted, its something I shouldnt have to do, but it doesnt bother me that much. Although after Daredevil Season 2, it does make Batman seem less heroic, even though it makes real world sense.
As for Lex, the way they portrayed it in the movie (at least to me) was he also thought Superman should go before he did something bad.
I think in All Star Superman it was the very notion of Superman that offended Lex, because Superman had abilities that Lex could never achieve no matter how hard he tried. His very existence minimized humanity. I was thinking that was his motivation in the movie until the Darkseid stuff implied he was just Darkseid's agent on Earth. While I would have preferred a different version of Lex in the movie, it was a great Luthor plan. Eisenberg didnt bother me at all. I also liked that he was smart enough to figure out the secret identities, and even knew the Senator was going to be a problem way in advanced. Granny's sweat tea was awesome. What a way to send the ultimate FU. :biggrin:
They only hinted at Darksied, and only people that know the comic/cartoon/video games would know what they were on about. Most of my non-comic friends hadn't a clue wtf he was on about. At the end of the movie they showed the painting hanging upside down now, which is what he mentioned earlier it should be that way as the devils were coming from above, IE: from space. he could just as easily been talking about Brainiac. That makes more sense as he's had time with the ship teaching him things so it may have told/called out to Brainiac. I wouldn't be surprised if Darkseid is coming (I'd be more surprised if he didn't show up), I'm just not 100% sure if it's part of Lex's stuff.
Well, I think they were definitely talking about Darkseid, since we have the mother box in the Cyborg video clip, the Omega symbol burned into the ground in Batman's premonition, as well as parademons.
Brainiac would have made more sense though, and it was what I was hoping they would do in MoS 2 before BvS was announced. Then could have had Lex fused with Brainiac in the next one which could lead to Apocalypse. I guess DC wanted to just jump straight to their Infinity War without laying the foundation.
Anyways, I was hoping the extra 30-40 min in the director's cut would fill in the gaps, but after watching an interview with Snyder about it I got the impression he didnt really even know what was in the footage. lol
4TH UPDATE, SUNDAY…Refresh for latest…: The full international weekend estimates on Batman V Superman: Dawn Of Justice have just landed with the superheroes pulling down $254M on 40K screens in 66 markets. Coupled with the record-breaking domestic number this frame, the worldwide total is $424.1M.
1. Why did Lex had to use his own blood to make doomsday?
2. Why was everyone having so much visions/dreams?
3. The flash cameo (the vision), why did they made it like it was another dream? Can the flash go into the dream world now? please correct me if I am wrong, bruce did wake up from that vision right?
4. Why did batman stopped fighting superman? Batman's motivation is because superman is all powerful and even if he is good now, one day might have that chance of becoming bad and hurt people. Just because he has a human side (has a mom and a GF) doesn't mean he won't turn bad later. I particularly remember bruce's dialogue with Alfred.
5. Why did WW give the harddrive to bruce? If she knows it might contain her secrets, then why would she give it away to have someone else hack it and see what is inside.
6. I just want to confirm that the Amazonian weapons are strong enough to kill krytonians. Because WW did chop off doomsday's hand.
7. With that big chunk of kryptonite, batman was only able to make 2-3 gas grenades and waste the rest on a spear with a giant tip? seems like a waste.
5. Superman was able to hear lois in danger in another continent, why can't he hear his mom when she was in trouble?
6. Isn't it a better way to deal with the mom hostage situation is to have superman kill the bad guys? Having batman do it is putting a huge risk on the safety of Martha. Superman can probably one swoop kill everyone in the warehouse if bruce tells him where they are holding Martha.
Seems like there's a lot of plot holes, or poor story telling, or the fact that I just didn't understand it.
1. Why did Lex had to use his own blood to make doomsday?
2. Why was everyone having so much visions/dreams?
3. The flash cameo (the vision), why did they made it like it was another dream? Can the flash go into the dream world now? please correct me if I am wrong, bruce did wake up from that vision right?
4. Why did batman stopped fighting superman? His motivation is because he is all powerful and even if he is good now, one day might have that chance of becoming bad and hurt people. Just because he has a human side (has a mom and a GF) doesn't mean he won't turn bad later.
5. Why did WW give the harddrive to bruce? If she knows it might contain her secrets, then why would she give it away to have someone else hack it and see what is inside.
6. I just want to confirm that the Amazonian weapons are strong enough to kill krytonians. Because WW did chop off doomsday's hand.
7. With that big chunk of kryptonite, batman was only able to make 2-3 gas grenades and waste the rest on a spear with a giant tip? seems like a waste.
5. Superman was able to hear lois in danger in another continent, why can't he hear his mom when she was in trouble?
Seems like there's a lot of plot holes, or poor story telling, or the fact that I just didn't understand it.
1. Doomsday in this universe seems to be some sort of hybrid, almost like a bizarro. I guess sacrificing a kryptonion baby thousands of times was too dark for this movie.
2. I think batman's were a result of a mental breakdown. There's a theory that this batman has been "broken" by the joker, after the joker killed robin, and that why he kills people now.
3. I think it was a vision, and he did wake up from it. We may see an explanation for it later?
4. Maybe he couldn't make himself kill someone's son? He's mentally unstable, so maybe hearing his mothers name made him reconsider? This is something I had an issue with too.
5. I don't think she knew. She knew Bruce wanted it, but she couldn't decrypt it.
6. He hadn't evolved a reaction to them yet, a major part of his ability. Later in the fight he can't be hurt by them.
7. Yeah. Maybe a lot of it went to research?
8. Maybe there was too much noise around her? Also thought that was odd.
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