Batman V Superman

[Pardus]

Saw B vs S at an early matinee today, 1st 10 mins was the continuing of the 2013 movie Man of Steel or at least the end of it, somewhat interesting, went all downhill from there. Very boring movie, no character development Would rate it D -.

 

[Omegachi]

I'll try

Spoiler

1. Doomsday in this universe seems to be some sort of hybrid, almost like a bizarro. I guess sacrificing a kryptonion baby thousands of times was too dark for this movie.
2. I think batman's were a result of a mental breakdown. There's a theory that this batman has been "broken" by the joker, after the joker killed robin, and that why he kills people now.
3. I think it was a vision, and he did wake up from it. We may see an explanation for it later?
4. Maybe he couldn't make himself kill someone's son? He's mentally unstable, so maybe hearing his mothers name made him reconsider? This is something I had an issue with too.
5. I don't think she knew. She knew Bruce wanted it, but she couldn't decrypt it.
6. He hadn't evolved a reaction to them yet, a major part of his ability. Later in the fight he can't be hurt by them.
7. Yeah. Maybe a lot of it went to research?
8. Maybe there was too much noise around her? Also thought that was odd.

Thanks for trying. we should compile a list of questions, im sure theres a lot more. I am just so confused by this movie.

 

[ImpulsE69]

Yea, if the movie didn't have what looks like really bad storytelling, one could say it is not for the dumb, but for the insightful and you have to make many conclusions yourself. A thinking mans movie where not every detail is handed to you on a plate.

But...that is not the case here. It is just badly done.

Spoiler

I will say though they did make it fairly obvious this was a old jaded Batman who was not the same person he was. This explained the killing and some of his quick hatred, and the branding.

Another thing though, I completely missed that was Robins outfit...I was really confused by that actually. I just assumed it was a reference to show an old batsuit where the Joker had won a battle at some point. Instead this probably represents the turning point of his personality where he started doing all the above.

Additionally, not knowing any of the other Darkseid storyline, all of the references to it as subtle as they were meant absolutely nothing and just sounded like lunatic babble. In fact one of the people I was with asked me what Lex meant at the end, and I thought at the time it was just him saying that bad people will always be around doing bad things, you can't stop it. Apparently that wasn't, but a direct reference to another nemesis in the storyline that most people are going to completely miss because it was way too subtle.

 

[MongGrel]

daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn

Globalization marches on.

You could have probably renamed Ishtar to Batman vs Superman and released it and made a ton of money these days, if you have the 44K theater
distribution.

()

 

[BUTCH1]

You couldn't pay me the $15 to go watch something like this. Good Sci-fi?, I'm in, "The Martian" was very good but it seems Hollywood's specialty these days are re-boot's or this crap, sad indeed. Thing is you don't need a special-effects tour-de-force to make an entertaining movie, look at how great something like "The big Lebowski" was or even a decent comedy like "We're the Millers".

 

[Skel]

Can someone please explain the following to me.

Spoiler

1. Why did Lex had to use his own blood to make doomsday?
2. Why was everyone having so much visions/dreams?
3. The flash cameo (the vision), why did they made it like it was another dream? Can the flash go into the dream world now? please correct me if I am wrong, bruce did wake up from that vision right?
4. Why did batman stopped fighting superman? Batman's motivation is because superman is all powerful and even if he is good now, one day might have that chance of becoming bad and hurt people. Just because he has a human side (has a mom and a GF) doesn't mean he won't turn bad later. I particularly remember bruce's dialogue with Alfred.
5. Why did WW give the harddrive to bruce? If she knows it might contain her secrets, then why would she give it away to have someone else hack it and see what is inside.
6. I just want to confirm that the Amazonian weapons are strong enough to kill krytonians. Because WW did chop off doomsday's hand.
7. With that big chunk of kryptonite, batman was only able to make 2-3 gas grenades and waste the rest on a spear with a giant tip? seems like a waste.
5. Superman was able to hear lois in danger in another continent, why can't he hear his mom when she was in trouble?
6. Isn't it a better way to deal with the mom hostage situation is to have superman kill the bad guys? Having batman do it is putting a huge risk on the safety of Martha. Superman can probably one swoop kill everyone in the warehouse if bruce tells him where they are holding Martha.

Seems like there's a lot of plot holes, or poor story telling, or the fact that I just didn't understand it.

Spoiler

1. I think it was a call back to some comic, but I can't remember it. I've been going with "reasons"
2. The director tries really hard to be deep. He's done this crap with Sucker Punch and for whatever reason hasn't learn it just muddies up the movie yet.
3. It's really open ended, but only if you take the leap of faith it's Flash. In the movie, we're lead to believe it's part of Batman's dream and Flash is confirming that Batman is "right about him". We're lead to believe unless you fill in the blanks for Batman that it's about Superman. Knowing the comics you can argue that Flash is jumping back in time, or using a Motherbox to tell Batman something. It's also a call out to "Crisis of Infinite Earths" Where Flash warns people bad things are happening and then flashes out.
4. I've written a bunch of badly this was done. There's no right answer other than the movie needed them to be BFFs by the end of it.
5. This is another thing that makes no sense. You'd think she'd want to keep her secrets, but she does say that she couldn't crack it's encryption. Still you'd think she'd want to keep the number of people possible that know of her to a minimum but again, they need to all be BFFs at the end of it.
6. Depends on who's writing it and what's needed. I'm not aware of anything special of Amazonian weaponry, but I haven't kept up with WW.
7. You can't have a Deus Ex unless it's small enough to only use the once. Otherwise it's the solution to every problem relating to Superman.
5. I assumed that he was tracking her, but that's a good point. I haven't a clue and they never say how he knew she was in danger in the beginning, yet is stumped with his mother.
6.The movie can't be called BvS unless they fight? At this point I personally gave up on getting thought out plot. I personally think it was written by stealing other great comics.

Yea, if the movie didn't have what looks like really bad storytelling, one could say it is not for the dumb, but for the insightful and you have to make many conclusions yourself. A thinking mans movie where not every detail is handed to you on a plate.

But...that is not the case here. It is just badly done.

Spoiler

I will say though they did make it fairly obvious this was a old jaded Batman who was not the same person he was. This explained the killing and some of his quick hatred, and the branding.

Another thing though, I completely missed that was Robins outfit...I was really confused by that actually. I just assumed it was a reference to show an old batsuit where the Joker had won a battle at some point. Instead this probably represents the turning point of his personality where he started doing all the above.

Additionally, not knowing any of the other Darkseid storyline, all of the references to it as subtle as they were meant absolutely nothing and just sounded like lunatic babble. In fact one of the people I was with asked me what Lex meant at the end, and I thought at the time it was just him saying that bad people will always be around doing bad things, you can't stop it. Apparently that wasn't, but a direct reference to another nemesis in the storyline that most people are going to completely miss because it was way too subtle.

The Robin thing was a call out to "Death in the Family." This is one of my personal issues with the movie. It really just kept jacking parts of some really good comics and slapped them together without any real context on how they connected. It's a pity because there's a ton of ways they could have made this movie. Instead they went with this mess.

 

[Linux23]

should i go see this thing or not?

 

[lupi]

The Robin thing was a call out to "Death in the Family." This is one of my personal issues with the movie. It really just kept jacking parts of some really good comics and slapped them together without any real context on how they connected. It's a pity because there's a ton of ways they could have made this movie. Instead they went with this mess.

And people already complained about length as is.

 

[Michael]

I went and it was fine enough. And if you go you can list your own complaints.

Michael

 

[Ns1]

should i go see this thing or not?

yes, send more money.

 

[Bird222]

should i go see this thing or not?

I say yes.

 

[Aharami]

When I first saw the trailer my initial reaction was "uh oh...looks like a total shitshow". Unfortunately the reviews and people I've talked to seem to agree with that original assessment. Looks good financially though lol.

Going to watch it this afternoon though, probably with at least three drinks in me.

well, no shit. people like you who already have a low opinion of this movie still pay money to go see it. Don't think the movie is good? Vote with your wallets and don't go see it.

 

[Skel]

And people already complained about length as is.

I'm not clear.. I'm saying they could have told this story without all of the comic moments, or if they really wanted to tell one of those comic stories they should have just stuck with it. As it was, they just tried to put too much into it. The length was really bad, but mostly because it was so slow for the first hour and a half.

 

[ImpulsE69]

I watched it for free and still thought it was bad. Granted from the trailers alone, I wouldn't have went to the theater and saw it otherwise.

I am not sure what the overall consensus is about it, I see quite a few comments on articles saying people liked it, but just as many if more saying it sucked. At any rate it isn't the worst movie to come out, it just isn't what anyone wanted out of this kind of movie.

 

[blankslate]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTKDtoBR-2M

^it's a little harsh... but

the phrase

...a travesty wrapped in a disaster, inside of an obscenity..

is a nice homage to that Oliver Stone movie.


____________

 

[zinfamous]

well, no shit. people like you who already have a low opinion of this movie still pay money to go see it. Don't think the movie is good? Vote with your wallets and don't go see it.

yeah, but that is his business, though

(and I mean financially; not personally)

 

[slag]

decent movie. b-

 

[Kaido]

I have a question: what was the point of the shot of Superman pulling the ship on the giant chain in the ice? (in Antarctica or wherever)

 

[Denly]

I went in with a few friends and none of use have any clues on comic, none of us understand why they(Batman/Superman/Lex) do things that they're doing, all of us agree this is the weakest Superman ever and we all impressed with WW. To us this is the same lvl of AoU

 

[preslove]

RLM did a review: http://redlettermedia.com/half-in-the-bag-v-batman-v-superman-dawn-of-justice/

I'm going to wait until this makes the dollar movie, then go with my wife to laugh at it.

 

[Bubblehappy]

I didn't care for it. And it was too freakin long as well. The actual fight scene wasn't bad, but the rest of it, forget it.

 

[mikeymikec]

I watched it yesterday. It wasn't bad, but wasn't great either.

My main problems with it:

1 - Lex Luthor's character. Jesse Eisenberg did well with what he was given, but the character didn't really have any demonstated basis for his motivation, and by the end of the film he was a mentally gibbering mess in comparison. I wasn't convinced.

2 - People here are saying that the spraypainted uniform was Robin's. I think that could have been made a bit more obvious, it would have helped provide the basis for Bruce Wayne's character (which otherwise was fairly convincingly fleshed out IMO).

3 - The physics. I don't care how many layers of armour you put on Bruce Wayne, there's still a fragile, fleshy, bony lifeform beneath and crashing it through walls and buildings might only dent the suit but IMO it would have had a severely injured wearer. The director would have done well to watch that scene from the BSG series where a guy gets thrown against a wall, and because his temple hit an exposed nut sticking out from the construction of the cell, he was dead on impact. I think the battle between Batman and Superman would have been an order of magnitude less absurd if it was like David vs. Goliath, with Batman avoiding scenarios were brawn is required.

4 - Batman leaving a calling card at Lex Luthor's lab. Bruce Wayne already had evidence that Lex Luthor was more than capable of organising surveillance and tracking people down. This was just incredibly stupid.

There were bits that I liked about the film. I'll probably watch it again at some point, but I probably won't buy it on DVD.

 

[Kaido]

Saw it Saturday. My verdict:

Spoiler

1. Fun movie as a superhero movie
2. Bad movie as a film (outside of geekdom)

It was better than I thought it would be (based on the trailers), and Lex did a better job than I anticipated (but didn't live up to his potential). I don't normally pick apart movies unless I feel like they could have done a lot better, and I definitely feel like they could have done a LOT better in this movie. Like in Winter Soldier, oh my gosh, fantastic start to finish. This movie? Well, here are some random thoughts:

1. Zero motivation. So Superman comes to earth as a kid (not his choice). Zod comes after him & starts blowing stuff up. Superman stops him. So instead of blaming Zod, Batman blames...Superman? Or, Superman saves people above the law, but hates Batman for doing the same thing. Or the dude in the wheelchair is mad at Superman...not Zod. Or after Batman saves Superman's mom & Superman just stands there with his arms folded in front of Lex, literally waiting for Lex to push the plot along by introducing the monster. So basically everyone is mad at each other for no real reason. They used really weak motivation for endless anger.

2. Zero character development. I know they expect you to already know the background of the characters, which I do, but there was just no character development in this show. I mean, Batman's big change from hating Superman to saving his mom was simply because...their moms had the same name? He was literally going to kill Superman, was angry at him the whole entire movie, start doing pullups with weights, building Kryptonite weapons, etc., and his whole attitude changed because their moms have the same name? And then Batman goes & saves Superman's mom? I was really sad that Jeremy Irons did basically nothing because I really like him as an actor, especially his cool bad-guy voice. Maybe he should have been Batman instead...

3. Stupid plot points. So Lex sets up Superman to look bad over the terrorist situation the beginning. But this his evil plans get foiled by an import license?! Seriously??

4. The monster was dumb. It didn't talk, but somehow knew Kung-fu & had laser eyes, but wanted to kill Superman. It looks like every other fat Gumby monster for the last few years too. Nearly the same design as Abomination from the Hulk or one of those Orc things from LOTR. Also reminded me of the metal guardian from Thor with the laser eyes. There was nothing cool about it. It had no reason to fight Superman & all it did was blow stuff up endlessly, Michael Bay-style. It felt very cheap.

5. They didn't highlight any of the cool points. Like when Lex/Batman/Superman learn each other's identities. Or the fact that the Doomsday monster can absorb energy. It was all just kind of like meh, there it is, sidenote.

6. Lots of prep with no payoff. Like when Batman was making all of the cool weapons to fight Superman, and he only used like...three.

7. Huge lack of comedic relief. The "is she with you?" and "I'm friends with your son; I figured, from the cape" parts were the only funny parts. You can't just do a solid serious movie the whole time! Especially for a comicbook movie!

8. It felt like there were three different directors: an artsy one (re: the intro scene with the pearls & gun, which I thought was shot really cool), a political thriller one (re: the terrorist scene in the beginning, serious government hearings, etc.), and a Michael Bay one (re: endless explosions when fighting the monster). It didn't feel like a cohesive story from a directing POV. Like the random monster coming out of the tomb in Batman's dream. Or the dream within a dream sequence with aliens & Superman Nazis. What the heck...

9. I feel like they could have pushed Lex's character even further. For starters, that scene where he pushes the cherry candy into the government guy's mouth...I understand what they were trying to do, but it kind of fell flat because he wasn't weird/creepy/crazy enough, it was just awkward. They didn't flesh out his character to be quite unhinged enough. But also just using his character flat-out...like the end scene where Lex is in jail, I was hoping that another bad guy was going to break in to rescue him & setup a little cliffhanger for the next movie. Or if it were Batman showing up, that it was a trap set by the (very smart) Lex, who had say merged his DNA with Zod's using the knowledge of 1,000 planets (per the floating computer thing in the crashed ship). Or something like that.

10. They didn't stay true to the characters. Like Superman killing Zod in the last movie, Superman doesn't kill people!! In the Nolan Batman movies, Christian Bale doesn't kill the clowns with guns (the hostages). In this movie, Batman's all about the guns...pistols, machine guns, grenade launchers, scoped rifles, what the heck! Batman doesn't use guns! Batman doesn't kill people! They threw away key features of both characters. Going back to the last Superman movie, Superman always takes the fight outside of the cities to minimize casualties & damage. Nolan did an exceptional job with the first two Bale movies; I wish they had gone the same route with this one.

This all feels like a cheap ripoff of the Marvel movies...oh, so Marvel is doing Civil War with the question of "should superheros have someone to answer to?", so we'll jump the gun & do it our own way. So we'll set Superman up to blow stuff up in the city, which will make Batman hate him the whole movie until he says "our moms have the same name bro, be cool!" It just felt like really weak writing.

I wish they had focused more on the idea of superheroes needing someone to answer to. For example, when Superman is talking with his dad, his dad tells the story of how they saved the farm, but his actions created dire consequences literally downstream & ruined someone else's farms. So while Superman may have stopped Zod, he also ended up with a lot of victims & damage. Which is fine, expect that he doesn't care...and not because his character is only focused on saving Lois Lane & his mom, but because his character is more or less one-dimensional & simply doesn't address the emotional PSTD from killing Zod, or being sad that the city blew up & people died, etc. They removed the part of his character that cared about people & places, and left him simply as a character who loves Lois Lane & stops bad guys. That's it.

This is something I liked in the anime series "One Punch Man" (spoiler alert) - an asteroid is headed towards the city in one episode, so One Punch Man uses his super punch to blow it up. No one dies, but people's homes, businesses, and cars get squished. So they all hate him for ruining everything, rather than being happy they're alive. Which makes the hero go on a rant about how ungrateful they are haha.

There's plenty more goofy stuff to talk about, but from a movie standpoint, I think it boils down to:

1. The characters had dumb reasons for doing things
2. The movie felt unfocused a lot of the time
3. Needed more comic relief

Comparing it to Winter Soldier...I think in that movie, they were like "our focus is (1) we are fighting Hydra, and (2) we are going to make an awesome action movie out of it", whereas Batman vs. Superman was kind of all over the place with things. So as a superhero movie, it was fun, watching it from a just-for-fun perspective, but as a film-movie, what the heck lol.

 

[Kaido]

I'm going to wait until this makes the dollar movie, then go with my wife to laugh at it.

If you go in with that attitude, you will not be disappointed :awe:

 

[Kaido]

Lex Luthor's character. Jesse Eisenberg did well with what he was given, but the character didn't really have any demonstated basis for his motivation, and by the end of the film he was a mentally gibbering mess in comparison. I wasn't convinced.

I think they dropped the ball on this. Lex could have been the next Loki...he really could have stolen the show. I liked how they introduced him...basically a Mark Zuckerburg with a twitch. They had good momentum, but they didn't go anywhere with it. I think it would have been better with more personal involvement...like maybe Lex's father was killed in the battle with Zod, so he has some personal stake for why he wants to kill Superman other than "just because". That was the big issue with this movie - they didn't give any reasons for the characters to do what they did. And the reasons they did give were stupid. It kept throwing me out of the movie because I wasn't really onboard with anything anybody was doing because they were doing it for dumb reasons.