Battery Tender

[LTC8K6]

The BM 1500 doesn't measure the battery temperature, and it only has 2 level HI/LO air temperature compensation. So it really doesn't adjust for the battery temperature at all, and it only has hi/lo levels for air temp near the charger, not near the battery.

Note the temp sensor and the very short lead:

http://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/n-zfvgw...13/1500_c__08173.1405389707.1280.1280.jpg?c=2

Note HI/LO compensation:

http://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/n-zfvgw...1500_10_C__77894.1405389728.1280.1280.png?c=2


Your charts don't even apply to the Battery Minder you are pushing.

It's $20 extra for battery temperature compensation.

http://www.batteryminders.com/batte...el-abs-248-at-the-battery-temperature-sensor/

http://www.batteryminders.com/batte...p-maintenance-charger-desulfator-on-sale-now/

 

[Auric]

There's a newer version of the Battery Tender Junior for only a few dollars more. It's high efficiency to comply with CA and OR regulations and has some other improvements.

http://www.amazon.com/Battery-Tender.../dp/B00DJ5KE9U

However, while it is low cost, NOCO and CTEK seem to have superior sealed connectors and insulated clamps (at the very least) while Deltran have old "standard" ones even on their higher models.

So, I'm considering the CTEK US 0.8 or even a higher model. I would use it primarily with a car and need the ring-terminal harness. Also, I already have an old charger when necessary (but a higher model could replace that as well).

http://www.amazon.com/CTEK-93-56-865.../dp/B006CQ9BMO

What say you?

-
I also prefer the models with a power cord rather than plugging directly into a wall socket (or extension cord). Do modern applications (motorcycle, lawnmower, &c.) still use those SAE connectors? In my experience that style (regardless of the number of plugs -i.e. trailer lights) is prone to corrosion and the wire slipping from the rubber. Maybe modern manufacturing has overcome the poor design?

 

[tortillasoup]

Ctek is only .8amps charging and while it claims to do desulfating, read this:

Some people, in the forum post that prompted this article, suggested users should use a CTEK 3300 to satisfy their sulphation needs. We do not think the CTEK charger lives up to its claim and feel it should be avoided if desulfation is your goal. In fact several years ago [November 2010] when we noticed batteries did not seem to respond, we contacted Borje the president of CTEK and he agreed to purchase a XC100-P Pulse Tech charger to do a comparative analysis. After some dialogue we never heard back from Borje or CTEK and frankly got the cold shoulder. To us this suggested our results were validated and their product was indeed inferior. Otherwise we would have expected a report showing how they outshine the competition.

http://www.impactbattery.com/blog/2013/02/battery-desulfators-do-they-work/

So the only devices with desulfators that actually work are the Battery minder and the Power Pulse according to that article and other articles written about battery desulfators.

If you want insulated clamps, as long as they're SAE connectors, they'll plug right into the battery minder. The Battery Minder has quick disconnect SAE connectors which means it's compatible with Battery Tender, and other brand of quick disconnect charge cables.

 

[tortillasoup]

The BM 1500 doesn't measure the battery temperature, and it only has 2 level HI/LO air temperature compensation. So it really doesn't adjust for the battery temperature at all, and it only has hi/lo levels for air temp near the charger, not near the battery.

Note the temp sensor and the very short lead:

http://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/n-zfvgw...13/1500_c__08173.1405389707.1280.1280.jpg?c=2

Note HI/LO compensation:

http://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/n-zfvgw...1500_10_C__77894.1405389728.1280.1280.png?c=2


Your charts don't even apply to the Battery Minder you are pushing.

It's $20 extra for battery temperature compensation.

http://www.batteryminders.com/batte...el-abs-248-at-the-battery-temperature-sensor/

http://www.batteryminders.com/batte...p-maintenance-charger-desulfator-on-sale-now/

I can see you did some research, that's good! So the Model 1500 is capable of only a high temperature and low temperature compensation, probably a cut off after 80F or something. That differs from the Model 2012 or the 12248 which does in fact follow a temperature curve. As for the short pigtail, the Model 1500's temperature probe can be removed and a extended at the battery probe can be purchased and used. The other temp compensated models like the schumacher have the probe within the unit and definitely don't work at all and obviously cannot be used with an at the battery temperature probe. It's possible that the battery minder undercharges the battery slightly by using a lower float voltage and makes up for this with its desulfation circuit.

I'm going to do some testing with my BM1500 and measure the charging voltage and various temperatures of the temperature probe.

 

[XavierMace]

Nothing more reliable than info from people selling them....

 

[LTC8K6]

I can see you did some research, that's good! So the Model 1500 is capable of only a high temperature and low temperature compensation, probably a cut off after 80F or something. That differs from the Model 2012 or the 12248 which does in fact follow a temperature curve. As for the short pigtail, the Model 1500's temperature probe can be removed and a extended at the battery probe can be purchased and used. The other temp compensated models like the schumacher have the probe within the unit and definitely don't work at all and obviously cannot be used with an at the battery temperature probe. It's possible that the battery minder undercharges the battery slightly by using a lower float voltage and makes up for this with its desulfation circuit.

I'm going to do some testing with my BM1500 and measure the charging voltage and various temperatures of the temperature probe.

How accurate is your meter when measuring in the range of 12VDC?
How accurate are the temperature measurements?

 

[tortillasoup]

How accurate is your meter when measuring in the range of 12VDC?
How accurate are the temperature measurements?

+/- 3% for both the multimeter and the infrared thermometer. Even a POS $5 harbor freight multimeter with an accuracy of +/- 5% is sufficient for these purposes.

Nothing more reliable than info from people selling them....

I don't sell anything.

 

[pauldun170]

Here is what I use (Battery Tender Plus)
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Battery-Te...arger/15779498

 

[LTC8K6]

+/- 3% for both the multimeter and the infrared thermometer. Even a POS $5 harbor freight multimeter with an accuracy of +/- 5% is sufficient for these purposes.

Well, I think you meant .3% and .5%...and then there is usually a digits figure, such as 2 digits.

My Fluke meter, for example - ±(0.3%+1)

3% would be far too inaccurate and 5% would be ridiculous.

You are talking about small voltage differences, such as one half of a volt.

I don't think you can measure accurately enough to support the need for temperature compensation.

But again, I don't really care if you support it.

I am just making sure that your opinion is not unopposed.

 

[Auric]

Ctek is only .8amps charging and while it claims to do desulfating, read this:

Yes, the milliamperage is conveniently/practically in the product name.

As for the 3300, it is a previous generation model.

 

[tortillasoup]

Well, I think you meant .3% and .5%...and then there is usually a digits figure, such as 2 digits.

My Fluke meter, for example - ±(0.3%+1)

3% would be far too inaccurate and 5% would be ridiculous.

You are talking about small voltage differences, such as one half of a volt.

I don't think you can measure accurately enough to support the need for temperature compensation.

But again, I don't really care if you support it.

I am just making sure that your opinion is not unopposed.

Yeah you're right, the differences in voltage is half a volt off.

 

[kitatech]

WeatherTech® Battery Charger ????????????
Any comments?
http://www.weathertech.com/weathertech-battery-charger/

 

[tortillasoup]

WeatherTech® Battery Charger ????????????
Any comments?
http://www.weathertech.com/weathertech-battery-charger/

that's just a rebadged Ctek charger and while I'm sure it charges fine, the "desulfation function" apparently doesn't work on that charger.

 

[Auric]

NOCO are on sale at Newegg through Nov 15 (sold by NOCO, shipped by Newegg). Prices are 1/3 less than Amazon (including free shipping from both), so the G3500 is $39.95 instead of $59.95. Still considering the CTEK MUS 4.3 for $59 though. :hmm:

 

[tortillasoup]

NOCO are on sale at Newegg through Nov 15 (sold by NOCO, shipped by Newegg). Prices are 1/3 less than Amazon (including free shipping from both), so the G3500 is $39.95 instead of $59.95. Still considering the CTEK MUS 4.3 for $59 though. :hmm:

Ctek is overpriced and while it claims it desulfates, in actual testing from users, it does nothing. If you're going to spend $40 on a battery tender, there is no excuse not to buy the Battery minder 1500.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Will this cheap thing (1.5-Amp )work with keeping my car battery in good condtion during winter? Car will be sitting the entire winter.

Says for small batteries but some reviews say they used it on cars and worked just fine.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Schumacher...5-Amp/15140193

That will work just fine for keeping a battery in good shape over the winter. Even in an uninsulated garage.

While a max of 1.5 amps will mean it takes a very long time to recharge a dead automotive battery, that's more than enough to keep an already charged battery in good shape. Even just half that (750 milliamps) is more than sufficient to keep an already charged car battery in good shape.

The difference between no charger and a basic float charger for my motorcycle batteries is the difference between a 2-3 year lifespan and a 6-7 year life span. While temperature compensation may extend that by another 6-12 months (assuming normal usage patterns by someone whose entire life doesn't revolve around his battery), the fact is that you capture pretty much all of the benefit just by having a float charger.

Don't obsess over this. Any float charger will give you a significant increase in expected life for batteries that are sitting in winter storage when compared to using no charger at all.

ZV

 

[jagec]

The difference between no charger and a basic float charger for my motorcycle batteries is the difference between a 2-3 year lifespan and a 6-7 year life span. While temperature compensation may extend that by another 6-12 months (assuming normal usage patterns by someone whose entire life doesn't revolve around his battery), the fact is that you capture pretty much all of the benefit just by having a float charger.

Quoted for emphasis. Sure, temperature compensation is great and all, but uncompensated float chargers are hardly battery poison.

 

[tortillasoup]

Quoted for emphasis. Sure, temperature compensation is great and all, but uncompensated float chargers are hardly battery poison.

It's poison if the battery gets out of range. It's pretty easy to kill a battery if you use the wrong kind of float charger.

 

[Zenmervolt]

It's pretty easy to kill a battery if you use the wrong kind of float charger.

Only if you're in extreme conditions that just plain aren't ever seen by a car sitting in a garage all winter, not even if it's an unheated, uninsulated garage in Alaska.

ZV

 

[tortillasoup]

Only if you're in extreme conditions that just plain aren't ever seen by a car sitting in a garage all winter, not even if it's an unheated, uninsulated garage in Alaska.

ZV

Most temperature compensated float chargers aren't even rated to work in significantly sub zero temperatures so your assertion that temperature compensation isn't needed unless it's "extreme conditions" is wrong.

 

[jagec]

Most temperature compensated float chargers aren't even rated to work in significantly sub zero temperatures so your assertion that temperature compensation isn't needed unless it's "extreme conditions" is wrong.

Significantly sub-zero temperatures aren't extreme in your book?

 

[tortillasoup]

Significantly sub-zero temperatures aren't extreme in your book?

They are extreme but at that point, the charger isn't even rated at those temperatures. The point I'm making is that the charger is designed to work at temperatures at the lowest 0F but more likely 32F. So if the charger has utility at above freezing temperatures and it's temperature compensated, then it would stand to reason being temperature compensated in non "extreme" temperature is necessary.

 

[JCH13]

Methinks many people are failing to realize that the best is the enemy of good enough.

Firstly, OP, I think that 1.5A is plenty to overcome the self-discharge rate of your typical car battery. I might not use it on RV batteries, but I've got a 1.5A tender for my cars' batteries when needed. Works fine.

Secondly, if you're storing a battery for the winter, in the cold, the self-discharge rate will be TINY for the same reason that cold batteries are 'weaker': cold slows down chemical reactions. Storing a battery in the cold does wonders to preserve battery capacity. A tender will help, definitely, but the tender's function becomes less important as temperatures drop. Just make sure that the battery is completely charged, this helps prevent the electrolyte from freezing.

See this article.

They note: Charge lead acid before storing and monitor the voltage or specific gravity frequently; apply a boost [tender] if below 2.10V/cell or an SG below 1.225.

Keeping the cell voltage above 2.1V stops sulfation and helps preserve cell capacity. On your average 12v battery you'll want to measure at least 12.6V on a stored battery. A "good" battery will store around 13.1-13.3V, and an "okay" battery will store around 12.5-12.7V.

Also, bear in mind that a tender costs money to run, perhaps between $10 and $30/year depending on how long a battery is stored, assuming the tender is run continuously. Over the years this can quickly match the purchase price of $80-120 for a new battery, but only extend it's life by 1-2 years.

My advice would be to take the battery(s) out, store them in a cool dry spot, and check the battery voltage every week or every month. If it gets low, apply the tender until the next time you check.

 

[LTC8K6]

My advice would be to take the battery(s) out, store them in a cool dry spot, and check the battery voltage every week or every month. If it gets low, apply the tender until the next time you check.

Hey you! Take your silly common sense elsewhere!

 

[tortillasoup]

Hey you! Take your silly common sense elsewhere!

I agree with this but most people would forget about that battery and let months go by which is why the tender is an appealing option.