Battlefield 1 Open Beta is live and supports DX12

[radieroslaw]

https://mobile.twitter.com/CatalystMaker/status/770711743928631296

 

[Phynaz]

It is also true that if nvidia had more up-to-date hardware, dx12 would be further along.

It's also true that if AMD could properly thread their drivers there would be less need for low level API's.

 

[Phynaz]

Whats FUD in my statement?

DICE developed Mantle with AMD and had been asking for a low level API for years.

https://twitter.com/repi/status/585556554667163648

DICE wanted to go DX12 only for holiday 2016 releases (BF1)

Nvidia hasn't done well in DX12 so far and have yet to release the elusive Async Compute drivers for Maxwell while selling them as supporting it. Considering async compute is one of the core engine features for increased performance and lower frame times that is a huge missing feature.

See above. DICE needed a way around AMD's crappy drivers.

 

[DamZe]

Yes, like I said: these low level APIs just make more work for devs that should be spent elsewhere. Reduced CPU overhead? Give me a break, desktop CPUs today are ridiculously fast.

CPU overhead is infinitely important, modern games have run into draw call bottlenecks, anything that alleviate this I welcome with open arms. And unless you are an expert in APi optimization, I suggest you keep some of your outlandish remarks about DX12 to yourself.

 

[2is]

CPU overhead is infinitely important, modern games have run into draw call bottlenecks, anything that alleviate this I welcome with open arms. And unless you are an expert in APi optimization, I suggest you keep some of your outlandish remarks about DX12 to yourself.

Well expert or not, one can easily see that thus far, DX12 benefits have been few and far between, quite often reducing performance. Given how much added work there is for developers and how varying PC gaming systems are, I don't think it's such a far fetched comment to say low level API's work better on consoles. Perhaps that will change in the future but so far it's been pretty close to useless.

 

[Azix]

See above. DICE needed a way around AMD's crappy drivers.

You really think that's how it was? They cared that much about AMD performance that they wanted to steer the entire industry towards dx12 and vulkan? Gold plated tin foil hat...

Well expert or not, one can easily see that thus far, DX12 benefits have been few and far between, quite often reducing performance. Given how much added work there is for developers and how varying PC gaming systems are, I don't think it's such a far fetched comment to say low level API's work better on consoles. Perhaps that will change in the future but so far it's been pretty close to useless.

this added work business seems like nonsense. These guys are leaving dx12 down to the last stretch.Very few months in the total dev time. It would be minuscule difference in effort if there was no dx11 in the mix, and better outcomes too.

 

[2is]

You really think that's how it was? They cared that much about AMD performance that they wanted to steer the entire industry towards dx12 and vulkan? Gold plated tin foil hat...



this added work business seems like nonsense. These guys are leaving dx12 down to the last stretch.Very few months in the total dev time. It would be minuscule difference in effort if there was no dx11 in the mix, and better outcomes too.

I don't think so. Look at your own post here. In your first response you say they wanted to steer the entire industry to DX12, in the next you're saying they're leaving it on the back burner until the last couple months of development and barely giving it any attention. I don't see how both can be true statements. Everything I've read about DX12 says it needs a lot more work then DX11. In fact, this post from you is the first I've ever heard that the difference is minuscule. Where are you getting this information from?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I take back what I said earlier dx12 appeared to work fine on my modest machine. I haven't tried dx11 but there really isn't a need.

Q9650
8GB
ssd
280x

I did have to update my video driver but that was all

 

[Azix]

I don't think so. Look at your own post here. In your first response you say they wanted to steer the entire industry to DX12, in the next you're saying they're leaving it on the back burner until the last couple months of development and barely giving it any attention. I don't see how both can be true statements. Everything I've read about DX12 says it needs a lot more work then DX11. In fact, this post from you is the first I've ever heard that the difference is minuscule. Where are you getting this information from?

I meant game developers in general. deus ex, doom, warhammer. dx11 was still main for them. Steering in a direction does not mean it will happen overnight. Then being able to add a new api in what looks like a short time period means its not as bad as some want to suggest. I'm not getting any information from anywhere. I was suggesting that if they can do a dx12/vulkan version that fast, its not as bad. Its like people think using dx11 didn't have its own difficulty.

 

[gradoman]

Had a lot of hiccups with DX12, but DX11 was pretty solid for 2560*1440 with a single R9 290x with dips into low 40s or so when I glanced at the FPS counter. Thought I wouldn't be able to run this game at decent FPS with the 290x.

 

[TheELF]

Meanwhile on planet earth,dice is working on the dx12 path for the frostbite engine ever since they put mantle in bf4,since as everybody keeps saying dx12 is basically mantle.
So if after all these years of working on it they still manage to mess it up that much it does not look very promising at all.

 

[Azix]

Meanwhile on planet earth,dice is working on the dx12 path for the frostbite engine ever since they put mantle in bf4,since as everybody keeps saying dx12 is basically mantle.
So if after all these years of working on it they still manage to mess it up that much it does not look very promising at all.

That's why i was thinking about those other games. Though its not like we know what they've been doing over at dice. Their engine is changing with each new game it would seem and still needs to support the new effects with dx11. So obviously they aren't only working on dx12. For them dx11 is still priority. dx11 games still have to be optimized and its clearly not a minor effort since so many games get it wrong.

Actually, thinking about it, the fact that dx11 games still have issues would suggest the issues with dx12 aren't that big a deal 1 year into its life.

 

[moonbogg]

Why would 42% res scale be normal? Just seems odd. It defaulted to 42%, but I thought it was off or something so I put it on 50.

 

[TheELF]

Yup,even dice who is trying to push it isn't working only on dx12 imagine how much resources the rest of the devs spend on it.
If you are objective about it Dx12 only shows big improvements in canned benchmarks and that might be a big part of why devs aren't willing to put much money into it.

 

[2is]

I take back what I said earlier dx12 appeared to work fine on my modest machine. I haven't tried dx11 but there really isn't a need.

Q9650
8GB
ssd
280x

I did have to update my video driver but that was all

In every example I've seen so far, DX11 > DX12. To say there's no need is like saying there's no need for more FPS, and it's highly unlikely that setup can't benefit from a few more FPS if it's there for the taking.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Was looking at possibly getting a GTX 1080 but it looks like my old R9 290 and i7-3770k may be alright at 1440p at med settings.

 

[2is]

If you guys haven't yet trampled an enemy with a horse, I highly recommend it. Very rewarding.

 

[dogen1]

CPU overhead is infinitely important, modern games have run into draw call bottlenecks, anything that alleviate this I welcome with open arms.

Eh, I think more GPU driven rendering is a better answer to that than masses of draw calls. Why brute force through the problem when you can sidestep it entirely?

 

[Face2Face]

I'm definitely seeing much better performance in DX11 vs. DX12 @ 1440p. I'll have to try the conquest map, but in this map I'm at 100+ FPS most of the time. Works out nicely with my 96Hz monitor I've also noticed the game uses less than 4 GB of VRAM (Ultra @ 1440p), so it's shouldn't be an issue with high end AMD cards like Fury and Fury X.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAjNM_HIS_E

 

[Unreal123]

Some people think that AMD has 100% market share of PC gaming and in fact AMD is the minority in PC gaming. Even Dice knows that any game ,which launched with DX12 or focused on DX12 rather DX11 has been a total flop in sales, user reviews and mostly a totally broken game. Examples , Deus EX mankind divided, Hitman 2016, QB (UWP), Gears of Wars, Ashes of the Singularity. These game mostly focused on DX12 and their DX11 port totally broken and even QB is being ported on DX11, which will be faster then so called "DX12".

DX12 right now is a pain, extra headache, overhead, extra resource and waste of time because 90% of PC gamer do not have a hardware to utilize DX12 and remaining 10% are not grantee that they will purchase that game and DICE know it and this is the reason why their 90% effort is with DX11 not DX12. Even AMD knows that developer will not ditch DX11 due to simply that AMD do not have enough users to justify it ,therefore, you will see these half backed DX12 port running better on AMD ,however, it will not be faster then Nvidia on DX11 just like Total Warhammer DX11 on Nvidia.

 

[Bacon1]

Some people think that AMD has 100% market share of PC gaming and in fact AMD is the minority in PC gaming.

I don't think anyone has said that. Its NVidia's lack of DX12 support with Maxwell which is holding DX12 support back, not the API itself. You must agree with that since you are trying to argue that people saying DX12 only == only AMD.

Deus EX mankind divided

DE:MD doesn't even have DX12 support yet, its coming in a week.

QB is being ported on DX11, which will be faster then so called "DX12".

You have no source that shows QB being faster in DX11.

The whole point of DX12 is performance improvement. There are no new IQ features, it is purely based on reducing API overhead for more performance and better designed engines. It makes sense that DX11 based engines won't work as well when created as hybrid DX11 + DX12. Developers that go Vulkan / DX12 only will be able to have much cleaner engines, but that will take a lot of time to get to that stage.

 

[2is]

Not sure what you mean about Deus EX focusing on DX12. It shipped with DX12 disabled and I don't believe that has changed yet. Hard to call a game DX12 centric when it's currently a DX11 only title.

 

[Bacon1]

Also everyone is going nuts about the DX12 not working well...

The setting says that it is still in active development and that it isn't stable and will have performance issues.

 

[2is]

I wonder if we will get an updated beta build before the beta period ends

 

[Carfax83]

I can't say why people are surprised about DX12 under performing at this time. It's a brand new API that requires much more investment and expertise from developers to implement properly. As such, only technically elite developers should really attempt it, and not just anyone.

DICE is definitely in the ranks of the most technically capable developers, so I'm sure that by launch date, the issues with DX12 will be sorted out.. What I do find worrisome however is that many people expect DX12 with just any game. DX12 should only be used for games that require, or can make use of the extra performance. To do otherwise is just a waste of time, since DX12 requires more development input..

DX12 won't really take off until a year or two from now, and especially after Microsoft's Scorpio console ships..