I agree. At least in Desert Combat for 1943, you could actually shoot them down. There is zero chance you could ever kill a jet with a skilled pilot in BF2. It got to where I wouldnt play maps with them.
The jets were the absolute worst part about BF2.
I never understood the complaints about jets. If the pilot is skilled, then why should the AA be buffed so that any noob can just hop in and shoot him down right away?
It takes time and effort to learn how to fly well so why should a skilled pilot not be rewarded with a large amount of kills, that he rightfully earns, if the enemy team is too stupid to do anything about him?
Its the same thing with snipers, people complain about them as well all the time. They're not really that effective in most players' hands anyways and its only the really skilled ones that can be a pain in the ass. Most people usually get killed by other classes but seem to get pissed off when a sniper kills them. Besides, there are so many ways to counter them anyways. There are so many terrible players who will keep doing the same thing over and over without learning and then bitch about it. If you keep getting sniped in a certain area, DON'T keep going there over and over and try to flank the sniper if you want to take him out.
I'm just so happy that developers generally don't take a lot of advice off forums and such. Otherwise we'd be playing a game with no vehicles, no aircraft, and with only one class to choose from so that everyone would be equal.
Its because they had no chance at all vs the snipers or jets, all the other classes they had a chance to kill them first but were unlucky etc.
Snipers are the most worthless annoying class in any game, i stabbed 5 in a row in bad company 2 the other day, all 5 were camping on the same hill and had shot me numerous times prior to that, their team lost every single game as well. There should be a limit on snipers. They dont cap points, their kdr's are nothing to write home about, they dont provide ammo or medibags, they just piss off their own team and the opposing team.
I never understood the complaints about jets. If the pilot is skilled, then why should the AA be buffed so that any noob can just hop in and shoot him down right away?
It takes time and effort to learn how to fly well so why should a skilled pilot not be rewarded with a large amount of kills, that he rightfully earns, if the enemy team is too stupid to do anything about him?
Its the same thing with snipers, people complain about them as well all the time. They're not really that effective in most players' hands anyways and its only the really skilled ones that can be a pain in the ass. Most people usually get killed by other classes but seem to get pissed off when a sniper kills them. Besides, there are so many ways to counter them anyways. There are so many terrible players who will keep doing the same thing over and over without learning and then bitch about it. If you keep getting sniped in a certain area, DON'T keep going there over and over and try to flank the sniper if you want to take him out.
I'm just so happy that developers generally don't take a lot of advice off forums and such. Otherwise we'd be playing a game with no vehicles, no aircraft, and with only one class to choose from so that everyone would be equal.
Its because they had no chance at all vs the snipers or jets, all the other classes they had a chance to kill them first but were unlucky etc.
Sorry in real life Shoulder fired AA missiles destroy fighters.. as do fixed and mobile AA guns.
In the game there were not enough counter measures against aircraft.
I'm all for having them in the game.. but there should be a way to defend against them that is way better than BF2.
In real life the skill is not dropping bombs on target.. it's evading AA missiles as well as fighter interceptors. the computer in modern fighter jets does all the bombing computations all the pilot has to do is press the "pickle" when the computer tellls him to..
not alot of skill there any more. the chore is staying on path to do so with defenses..
Its because they had no chance at all vs the snipers or jets, all the other classes they had a chance to kill them first but were unlucky etc.
Snipers are the most worthless annoying class in any game, i stabbed 5 in a row in bad company 2 the other day, all 5 were camping on the same hill and had shot me numerous times prior to that, their team lost every single game as well. There should be a limit on snipers. They dont cap points, their kdr's are nothing to write home about, they dont provide ammo or medibags, they just piss off their own team and the opposing team.
This.
They are universally hated in almost all games because of the fact that they are designed to engage you in uneven fights i.e. they can kill you, but you can't kill them. It's why they are annoying. People like to win (and lose) fights that they actually partake in.
I know many people, including myself, who have no problem taking out snipers and aircraft. As a matter of fact, its easier for me to counter-snipe a sniper with either my machine gun as a medic or with my sub machine gun as an engineer.
The point is, you can't just dumb down a game because people refuse to learn how to take out jets/snipers/whatever it is that pisses them off.
Sorry but in real life shoulder fired AA missiles are used against helicopters primarily and not fighters since they are very fast and have a very high chance of evading the missile. Same thing with the fixed and mobile AA guns. Most would not be able to hit a fighter anyways. But let's not even bother getting into this conversation.
If you want an AA system in BF3 that will take out fighters on the first shot, then why even bother with that? You may as well just introduce a button or key bind in the game that destroys any aircraft once they start to annoy you. Fighter pilots need to be able to survive for a little bit as well, otherwise why even have jets in the first place?
I know many people, including myself, who have no problem taking out snipers and aircraft. As a matter of fact, its easier for me to counter-snipe a sniper with either my machine gun as a medic or with my sub machine gun as an engineer.
The point is, you can't just dumb down a game because people refuse to learn how to take out jets/snipers/whatever it is that pisses them off.
And you would be 100% wrong..
10 years working on F/A-18C D and E Hornets. AT2 USN
Working in Avionics and countermeasures.
I have the real life experience to back up what I say.
modern shoulder fired weapons as well as mobile and fixed AA (guns as well as missle battieries) will tear a modern fighter/ground attack aircraft to pieces.. that's why my jammers countermeasures and other top secret systems are so important on modern aircraft.
does it make it fool proof and easy? nope still takes ALOT of pilot skill to evade and defeat a missle or high tech gun system..
We had NUMEROUS Hornets and A-7s and even A-6s come back with HEAVY gun damage and missile debris damage to them during Desert Storm 1 and had several fatalities..
The below quote says flat out that LOW FLYING (yes that is a key word) as ALL engagements in BF2/3 are low altitude and are pertinent. Iraq and Desert Storm were not the best examples as the training and implementation of the Iraqi defenses was horrible but it does stand that the weapons even last generation are effective against fast movers as well as rotary wing aircraft.
Iraqi antiaircraft defenses, including shoulder-launched ground-to-air missiles, were surprisingly ineffective against coalition aircraft and the coalition suffered only 75 aircraft losses in over 100,000 sorties, though only 42 of these were the result of Iraqi action. The other 33 were lost to accidents.[12] In particular, RAF and U.S. Navy aircraft which flew at low altitudes to avoid radar were particularly vulnerable, though this changed when the aircrews were ordered to fly above the AAA.[13]
Snipers are the most worthless annoying class in any game, i stabbed 5 in a row in bad company 2 the other day, all 5 were camping on the same hill and had shot me numerous times prior to that, their team lost every single game as well. There should be a limit on snipers. They dont cap points, their kdr's are nothing to write home about, they dont provide ammo or medibags, they just piss off their own team and the opposing team.
So after everything that you just wrote, you basically summarized exactly what I have said in your last paragraph...
Nobody is saying that aircraft are not vulnerable to ground fire, be it AAA or missile based, but as you just wrote yourself, out of over 100,000 sorties only 42 aircraft were shot down... That seems like a pretty damn good survival rate to me.
And just to clear this up, I'm NOT trying to say that since air power is powerful in real life it should be powerful in the game. I agree that the game must be balanced and directed towards having a good time. But what you guys seem to be proposing is that once an aircraft is to take off, it should be very easy to shoot it down. Then what the hell is the point of even having aircraft if they can't do their job?
I've never had an issue shooting down aircraft with a squad that properly interacted with each other. If you're on a pubbie team with half the players running around like chickens with their heads cut off, then I'm not surprised that the aircraft are such an issue.
Those 42 were almost all in the first 48 hours of fighting.. against a clearly unprepared enemy. had this been against Russia or China the losses would have been much nastier.
we just bombed them into oblivion and gained total air superiority VERY quickly. I was there... the damaged aircraft did not get shot down but also did not complete their sorties either still making the point valid for a game.. We should eb able to keep the pilots busy enough where they cannot deliver thier payloads 100% of the time.
The point was that even shoulder fired weps are effective against fast movers which you said it was not.
as well as Gun systems especially the larger ZSU's with properly trained and motivated crews will tear a jet to pieces..
If they added 128 player servers, that'll be nuts.
But it depends on the map design, imagine Karkand with 128 players.