Battletech

[Fallen Kell]

Wish the game didn’t bias so heavily towards close range brawls.

Yep, welcome to my comment from a few weeks ago. It all has to do with the view range. I feel so many of the weapons are imbalanced mainly due to changes they made from the tabletop. I get it, view range was suppose to give purpose to using light/medium mechs. Unfortunately it has simply skewed the weapon loadouts to focus on the 300m range. Some added heat on energy weapons was suppose to force ammo based weapons to be used. The problem is that they bumped up the heat of those ammo based weapons (mainly AC, but even Gauss), removing the reason the main reason for risking the ammo explosions while at the same time still keeping the drawbacks of running out of ammo. At the same time, missiles were given a huge advantage of calculating to hit per missile as opposed to as a whole, and the added "stability" mechanic heavily favors them as well.

Look, I'm not saying that the TT rules shouldn't have been tweaked some for this game, but again, it comes down to not thinking through the changes being made and their consequences (not nearly as bad as "Mechwarrior: Online" lack of understanding of their changes, but none-the-less not completely thought through). The game's original universe and rules had lore and history behind it. But the sight mechanic in this game is beyond ridiculous. Don't tell me you can't see 32 foot tall object from more than 1/4 mile away even with your own naked eyes, let alone with the camera systems most mechs used (forgetting about the Star League/Lostech neural helmets that would have been in mechs like the Highlander we get which according to lore were able to allow the pilot to create a virtual reality, allowing them to fully shutter the cockpit and perceive the world through the mech's sensors and map data).

 

[JTsyo]

Man, I dropped into a tough 3.5 skull mission. I was taking on a lance of 3 heavies and a medium when reinforcements showed up. That lance had 2 Jagermechs (2x AC2 and 2x AC5) plus the one that was already in the first lance. I was pelted by AC and LRM from beyond sight while I dealt with the first group. One of my mechs got knocked down and was mercilessly cored. Then they got a lucky head shot on another. And a third got cored after being knocked down. Glitch was the last one standing in my Highlander, the mech held but she was killed from too many injuries.
I had to reload that one and take on the reinforcements first. While I kept jumpjetting back to keep range on the first group. After I finish the reinforcements, I let the first group close and finished them off to. Then it was announced that reinforcements were coming and my heart sank. Turned out it was just for the first group I had killed. Seems when you kill the main group that warning plays. Things ended much better that time and everyone made it back to the barracks.

 

[Fallen Kell]

Man, I dropped into a tough 3.5 skull mission. I was taking on a lance of 3 heavies and a medium when reinforcements showed up. That lance had 2 Jagermechs (2x AC2 and 2x AC5) plus the one that was already in the first lance. I was pelted by AC and LRM from beyond sight while I dealt with the first group. One of my mechs got knocked down and was mercilessly cored. Then they got a lucky head shot on another. And a third got cored after being knocked down. Glitch was the last one standing in my Highlander, the mech held but she was killed from too many injuries.
I had to reload that one and take on the reinforcements first. While I kept jumpjetting back to keep range on the first group. After I finish the reinforcements, I let the first group close and finished them off to. Then it was announced that reinforcements were coming and my heart sank. Turned out it was just for the first group I had killed. Seems when you kill the main group that warning plays. Things ended much better that time and everyone made it back to the barracks.

Sounds almost as bad as the mission I described last week when I was up against 3 lances + 1. Only lucky thing about that one is that I figured out immediately that it was going to be an ambush and made for defensive position with the first steps I took on the map.

I have to say, I am still using the Shadow Hawk configuration I had just put together before that battle (full front armor, 2xLRM15++ (stability), 4 tons of LRM ammo, max jump jets, no added heatsinks). The pilot has evasive movement, multi-target, and breaching shot, and it simply rains down hell on everything. I keep it in the rear, just jumping from cover to cover while keeping the attack lines open to targets. If any target has braced, I simply spread the missiles over 2 enemies that turn. Mechs that are not braced, I double hit which usually puts them just one more stability hit from falling. The higher initiative lets me choose to go early to get a knockdown on a heavy/assault or wait for targets to be scouted by my other mechs. It will run a little hot on maps that have negatives to heatsinks (solved by just firing 1 LRM15 every few rounds). It can go 16 rounds firing both LRM15s before running out of missiles (I have only encountered 1 mission where that pushed me to be frugal with the missiles, choosing targets carefully, and it was one of the story line missions).

 

[Merad]

I feel so many of the weapons are imbalanced mainly due to changes they made from the tabletop. I get it, view range was suppose to give purpose to using light/medium mechs. Unfortunately it has simply skewed the weapon loadouts to focus on the 300m range.

I think there's a good chance they built & balanced the game around skirmishes, then tacked the campaign onto that. In a 4v4 match having a scout might be a viable choice, but it just doesn't work in campaign missions where you're routinely outnumbered 2 to 1 or worse. I just finished a 4 skull mission where my lance (Highlander, Orion, Jagermech, Grasshopper) faced 10 enemies (King Crab, 2x Orion, 4x Thunderbolt, 2x Quickdraw, Jenner). You can't afford a true scout against those odds, and even if you tried it they'd be eaten alive.

It would be a lot of work but I wonder how it would work out to just mod all of the mechs and equipment to use their numbers from the tabletop. There are some things you probably couldn't change so easily like attacks stripping evasion or being unable to sprint and attack, but it might make the campaign feel better overall.

Man, I dropped into a tough 3.5 skull mission. I was taking on a lance of 3 heavies and a medium when reinforcements showed up. That lance had 2 Jagermechs (2x AC2 and 2x AC5) plus the one that was already in the first lance. I was pelted by AC and LRM from beyond sight while I dealt with the first group. One of my mechs got knocked down and was mercilessly cored. Then they got a lucky head shot on another. And a third got cored after being knocked down. Glitch was the last one standing in my Highlander, the mech held but she was killed from too many injuries.

I've really come to hate the stability mechanic. It can really screw you especially in reinforcement situations where sometimes they spawn within range of you and take a turn before you get a chance to do anything.

 

[GoodRevrnd]

I think the map size is what really messes with scouts. There just isn't enough room to maneuver away and evasion doesn't help enough. That said, vs 800t nothing will help.

 

[JTsyo]

I've really come to hate the stability mechanic. It can really screw you especially in reinforcement situations where sometimes they spawn within range of you and take a turn before you get a chance to do anything.

Yea stability can be a real pain when they outnumber you since you might not even get a chance to brace before you get knocked over. I find myself sometimes not taking precision shots so I can use vigilance if needed.

 

[Elcs]

First thing I did was take the Gauss Rifle off my Highlander and replaced it with an AC/10. Having such a prize possession in an arm slot was so dangerous.

That went into the RT of one of my Cataphracts. It also helped even out the heat across my lance a bit better.

I believe that I'm at the penultimate mission. Going to play Grim Dawn again and give it a few weeks before I go finish my Battletech campaign.

Then it's mod search and try time

 

[Rifter]

The highlander is good for sure, but the Atlas you get later is even better.

 

[Fallen Kell]

First thing I did was take the Gauss Rifle off my Highlander and replaced it with an AC/10. Having such a prize possession in an arm slot was so dangerous.

I keep debating removing the Gauss from the Highlander. I have yet to be in a mission where I felt it was in danger though. The Highlander is still the slowest mech in my lance, so it is almost always near the rear. Typically it just gets a few rounds of LRMs tossed at it in most missions (my battlemaster and/or wolverine take the bulk of the fire). Still bring out my Shadow Hawk for a lot of the missions (every once in a while it gets hit hard by a couple PPCs/LLasers and I debate replacing it, but it's mobility (and staying towards the rear) is what does most of the damage absorption). I mean 5 or so pips of evasion are pretty hard to break through, especially for the AI that is looking at other threats I have that are easier to hit and closer in range. And a high likelihood of 100-110 damage per round/every round + high stability damage is nothing to joke about. It just wears mechs down such that they are vulnerable to precision shots from others (or knocks them down and gives me free precision shots from the others in my lance).

 

[you2]

Having finished the campaign kind of wish the campaign was better developed as an rpg with branching choices and richer dialogue (which was quite juvenile). I haven't played multi-player but for single player I found the maps a bit small and preventing much strategy.

 

[JTsyo]

Having finished the campaign kind of wish the campaign was better developed as an rpg with branching choices and richer dialogue (which was quite juvenile). I haven't played multi-player but for single player I found the maps a bit small and preventing much strategy.

Now that they know the game has a good following maybe they can follow it with something better. They just had a small team work on this and it came out pretty fast.

 

[Rifter]

Yeah maps are to small for sure.

 

[Fallen Kell]

I believe it has done well enough that they can convince a publisher to make some expansions and possibly really reboot the series again. It helps that the team doing this had people who were highly involved in the creation of the original board game, and expanded universe. It really shows (I mean the opening sequence nails giving the important overview of how the essentially present day became the future depicted in the BT Universe). I come at this game having previously read almost every Battletech novel that had been written (missed some of the early ones (i.e. the very first 2 books), but even stuck through the very poorly received Dark Ages series... looking now, it appears there 2 new books came out a few years ago (a year or two after MW:O released)). Heck, my username is a homage to the series (and a name I picked back in 1997 on this site before the great forum wipe of 1999 when everyone had to re-register, which is why you see several of us all with the same "Joined Oct 9, 1999", like Rifter and myself...).

 

[Spydermag68]

I have really been unlucky with head shots. I was playing one mission that I had to destroy a convoy. I took in 2 Orions, an Awesome, and a Highlander. I wiped out the convoy and the mechs guarding it and turned around to hunt the reinforcements. BAM! PPC to the head of one of the Orions,

Reload.
Get to the same place and BAM! Headshot to the Awesome.

Reload.
Bam! Headshot to the Highlander.

The same @#$@%#%^ mech a catapult continuously head shoted my mechs.

 

[Fallen Kell]

I have really been unlucky with head shots. I was playing one mission that I had to destroy a convoy. I took in 2 Orions, an Awesome, and a Highlander. I wiped out the convoy and the mechs guarding it and turned around to hunt the reinforcements. BAM! PPC to the head of one of the Orions,

Reload.
Get to the same place and BAM! Headshot to the Awesome.

Reload.
Bam! Headshot to the Highlander.

The same @#$@%#%^ mech a catapult continuously head shoted my mechs.

Stay out of range?

 

[Merad]

RNGesus in this game is a harsh god, but it does seem like he’s equally cruel to all of his children. Not long after I got the Highlander its gauss rifle blew off two heads in one mission. The worst for me so far was having the head punched off of my PC’s Thunderbolt in the ammo crate mission. Thankfully it was near the end, so I didn’t have to reload. Also lost Glitch due to the same Thunderbolt getting its head blown off again while my PC was out of action.

 

[JTsyo]

Also lost Glitch

It really sucks when you experienced pilots dies. You get used to all their skills.

Panzyr mission spoilers:

Spoiler

Trying to stop those APC was very tricky. First time I tried, I went for a melee attack that had 95% chance and missed. The APC drove into the control area and I got mission failed. It took a few tries before I realized that the mechs can block the entrance to the control area. I'm not sure what kind of mech and make it to the bonus objective in time and still take out that APC.

 

[Fallen Kell]

It really sucks when you experienced pilots dies. You get used to all their skills.

Panzyr mission spoilers:

Spoiler

Trying to stop those APC was very tricky. First time I tried, I went for a melee attack that had 95% chance and missed. The APC drove into the control area and I got mission failed. It took a few tries before I realized that the mechs can block the entrance to the control area. I'm not sure what kind of mech and make it to the bonus objective in time and still take out that APC.

Yeah this is why you need to have 2-3 extra pilots that you have been training up on easy missions. I think I have 8 to choose from that have all at least obtained the 3 major skills, with all having at least rank 5 in every skill.

As for that Panzyr mission... Yeah, no clue on how you can do the bonus objective. Lights get destroyed (even tried it with 3). Two mediums can just bairly get there but take a ton of damage to the rear to the point that they can't finish the mission. Heavies and assaults are too slow (even the fastest ones like a battle master).

 

[you2]

Jumping can help a lot there.

 

[Pneumothorax]

Yeah this is why you need to have 2-3 extra pilots that you have been training up on easy missions. I think I have 8 to choose from that have all at least obtained the 3 major skills, with all having at least rank 5 in every skill.

As for that Panzyr mission... Yeah, no clue on how you can do the bonus objective. Lights get destroyed (even tried it with 3). Two mediums can just bairly get there but take a ton of damage to the rear to the point that they can't finish the mission. Heavies and assaults are too slow (even the fastest ones like a battle master).

Used a Disco ball (maxed out on ML/SL) grasshopper with 4 JJ's on that mission to get up there in time for the bonus. Used LRM boat Orion to harass the light mechs that were bothering him and had him jump and fire continously until he got to the top. I had to use a called shot to with all my medium lasers hitting the side armor of the APC to take it out. Meanwhile Highlander and Battlemaster kept the other guys busy and blocked openings for the APC.s

 

[JSt0rm]

the game would of killed it if they had more chained missions after you are done with the main campaign. Imagine finishing the main campaign only to realise you have piles of scripted main campaigns to do for all of the houses. Imagine a certain play through couldnt do campaign for each house. You would have to choose.

 

[Fallen Kell]

the game would of killed it if they had more chained missions after you are done with the main campaign. Imagine finishing the main campaign only to realise you have piles of scripted main campaigns to do for all of the houses. Imagine a certain play through couldnt do campaign for each house. You would have to choose.

That would have been awesome. I suspect though that this isn't the end of this game. I think they essentially had a budget, and wanted to make sure they stayed well within it. I mean, may of these guys were the original creators of the Battletech universe, and they wanted to make sure that the game was profitable to the point that it will cause a publisher to see the value and invest in not only this specific gamestyle, but future Mechwarrior style and possibly larger scale tactical games (much like how there was a website which was essentially tracking all the various Houses, Clans, and Mercenaries (their current units strength/status/location, ownership of systems, etc., etc., and let major campaigns occur where-in registered people took part of and played, with limitations on what mech/weapons/ammo could be used for the individual fights, tracking outcome, and publishing results)

 

[Midwayman]

Stuff I'd love to see happen
- Tracking actual ammo usage. Can't find LRM ammo, you might have to go into combat with empty bins. Would actually make that ammo salvage make sense.
- Allowing me to go into combat with a damaged mech. Can't afford to replace that arm that got blown off, don't have time or parts? Well, at least give me the choice of using it.
-Campaigns that branch from the main one. If I want to ignore the 'main' plot and take my dropship and go work for they lyrans, It would be cool if they had scripted missions for each house.
-Multiple lance missions. Company sized so 3 plus a possible scout lance or vehicle support.

I'm sure we will get some updates with Paradox owning HBS now. I hope they don't roll right into clans though. Once that happens you'll never see anything but them in multiplayer. Though playing the IS during the invasion would be interesting.

 

[Rifter]

That would have been awesome. I suspect though that this isn't the end of this game. I think they essentially had a budget, and wanted to make sure they stayed well within it. I mean, may of these guys were the original creators of the Battletech universe, and they wanted to make sure that the game was profitable to the point that it will cause a publisher to see the value and invest in not only this specific gamestyle, but future Mechwarrior style and possibly larger scale tactical games (much like how there was a website which was essentially tracking all the various Houses, Clans, and Mercenaries (their current units strength/status/location, ownership of systems, etc., etc., and let major campaigns occur where-in registered people took part of and played, with limitations on what mech/weapons/ammo could be used for the individual fights, tracking outcome, and publishing results)

I agree, the DLC opportunities for this game are massive.

Hell there are already some great mods out.

 

[you2]

Yea but I worry we will get into the paradox model of offering a gazillion tiny dlc. Much rather have major content add-on then a bunch of nickle and dimes.

I agree, the DLC opportunities for this game are massive.

Hell there are already some great mods out.