BBB - nowhere close

[MichaelMay]

Throwing him out of the party is about the stupidest thing you could do. Have fun with Senate Majority Mitch McConnell with that move.

Or have fun with "Democrats are completely useless, they are in the majority and get NOTHING done. Might as well not bother with 2022" which is what is going to happen.

The entire Democratic party is at this point only Sinema and Manchin, they are the two who call the shots and they are (regardless of what policies they ran on) handing the Republicans everything they could ever hope for and then some.

 

[Brainonska511]

Or have fun with "Democrats are completely useless, they are in the majority and get NOTHING done. Might as well not bother with 2022" which is what is going to happen.

The entire Democratic party is at this point only Sinema and Manchin, they are the two who call the shots and they are (regardless of what policies they ran on) handing the Republicans everything they could ever hope for and then some.

Want to shake it up: elect more democrats. Throwing out what little advantage Democrats have is stupid, because so much can still be done with the slim majority, including ever important judicial confirmations.

 

[MrSquished]

Yeah, corporations won’t get a tax break in this Bill so it can’t be any good...

That's all ponyo cares about, billionaires getting tax cuts, their corporations getting more tax cuts, and capital gains getting tax cuts, and also finding ways to pay people less so the corporations he is invested in can make more profits

 

[gothuevos]

Want to shake it up: elect more democrats. Throwing out what little advantage Democrats have is stupid, because so much can still be done with the slim majority, including ever important judicial confirmations.

Might work at the senate level, but with house gerrymandering, forget about it at the house level.

 

[Sunburn74]

Might work at the senate level, but with house gerrymandering, forget about it at the house level.

Control the senate, control the SCOTUS and you can take care of gerrymandering.

 

[sportage]

THIS is all one need to know about (cough cough) Joe Manchin.



The panderer, the wolf in sheep clothing, the brainless baba, certainly never the democrat.
I have the bestest solution for America come the 2022 midterms...
First, defy the odds and add even more democrats to congress.
Second, add so many more democrats that we never again need give a damn about the Joe Manchin's nor the Kyrsten Sinema's in the world. Just as god had intended.
And third, after fulfilling the above, give these two losers the boot out of the democrat party. Let them run to the republican party because as a republican within the republican party, they will fit right in.

If the middle class republicans and Trumpies would listen and realize how not passing Biden's BBB would seriously hurt them and their families and take away that beloved child tax credit, if middle class republicans realized what is at risk then they would gladly vote for democrats in the next election.
That is.... If they had a brain.
And a heart.
And the courage.
I say, lets send them off to see the wizard.

 

[hal2kilo]

Manchin holding things up because he he wants to revert to the original pre 2021 setup and not turn the extended credit into a long term thing

Add Sinema to the list.

Kyrsten Sinema boldly fights her own party — to save another tax break for the rich | Salon.com

Sinema, who already killed Democratic efforts to roll back some of the Trump-era tax cuts for the ultra-rich and big corporations — a proposed change that even fellow "centrist" holdout Sen. Joe Manchin of West Virginia supported — is the only Democrat opposed to cracking down on abuse of the conservation easement tax deduction, three sources told The Daily Beast.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Throwing him out of the party is about the stupidest thing you could do. Have fun with Senate Majority Mitch McConnell with that move.

What difference does it make if the senate is captured by Mitch or captured by Manchin?

 

[Roger Wilco]

"Why Manchin has concerns with including child tax credit in BBB, per source familiar - It has to do with how it impacts cost of bill, which he wants to keep at $1.75T - Manchin’s belief is that if the CTC is expanded over 10 years it would blow up the cost of the bill."

"- He isn't telling Biden to remove any specific policy, according to the source, but he has made clear that these expensive provisions are not going to fit to keep the bill at $1.75T -- Biden's framework would extend CTC for ONE year."

"- But Manchin has said that temporary programs do not reflect the true cost to taxpayers. And has repeatedly made clear that the cost of the bill should reflect how much the bill's programs cost over 10 years"

https://twitter.com/x/status/1471196703051165701

 

[Brainonska511]

What difference does it make if the senate is captured by Mitch or captured by Manchin?

Manchin will confirm Biden's nominees.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Manchin will confirm Biden's nominees.

Yayy, we only have to eat half a shit sandwich instead of a whole one, dig in boys!

 

[Brainonska511]

Yayy, we only have to eat half a shit sandwich instead of a whole one, dig in boys!

Considering how much has lurched rightward because of conservative appointments to the judiciary, it seems like it's better to take this small half measure and keep pushing for more democrats to be elected/pushing on the elected ones instead of further conservative entrenchment by giving ground to conservatives.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Considering how much has lurched rightward because of conservative appointments to the judiciary, it seems like it's better to take this small half measure and keep pushing for more democrats to be elected/pushing on the elected ones instead of further conservative entrenchment by giving ground to conservatives.

Just like we've always done? Like every previous cycle, hoping beyond hope that it'll work this time?

 

[fskimospy]

Yayy, we only have to eat half a shit sandwich instead of a whole one, dig in boys!

I'm continually confused how it is not obvious how much better it is for Manchin to be a Democrat and in the Senate than any plausible alternative.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

I'm continually confused how it is not obvious how much better it is for Manchin to be a Democrat and in the Senate than any plausible alternative.

Manchin as a democrat = Democrats stagnating with no congressional movement = Republican wins in 2022/2024, next question?

 

[Fenixgoon]

Manchin as a democrat = Democrats stagnating with no congressional movement = Republican wins in 2022/2024, next question?

Manchin not a democrat = republican senate majority and Mitch McConnell at the helm. That is far worse.

 

[hal2kilo]

Manchin not a democrat = republican senate majority and Mitch McConnell at the helm. That is far worse.

Describe a fix for this intractable situation.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Describe a fix for this intractable situation.

Publicly, and loudly, decry the actions of those two, carve them out for the base, and hope it galvanizes enough support for a greater voter turnout in 2022/2024.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Manchin will confirm Biden's nominees.

Did he say he will?

 

[TheVrolok]

Describe a fix for this intractable situation.

Elect more Democrats to the senate

 

[fskimospy]

Manchin as a democrat = Democrats stagnating with no congressional movement = Republican wins in 2022/2024, next question?

Okay now do this with any plausible Manchin replacement and compare outcomes.

 

[fskimospy]

Publicly, and loudly, decry the actions of those two, carve them out for the base, and hope it galvanizes enough support for a greater voter turnout in 2022/2024.

While I understand the idea of base mobilization as an electoral strategy the main problem with it seems to be that it’s wrong. Trump went with an all base mobilization strategy and got buried. Why would democrats be different?

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

While I understand the idea of base mobilization as an electoral strategy the main problem with it seems to be that it’s wrong. Trump went with an all base mobilization strategy and got buried. Why would democrats be different?

Trump got buried because he's an extremist, and because there's less Republicans in America than Democrats, and because they actually showed up to the polls. A galvanized Democrat base will be an inordinate number of people, compared to a galvanized Republican base. Just gotta do it without being as extreme as Republicans, so you don't alienate too many moderates (or 'moderates').

 

[fskimospy]

Trump got buried because he's an extremist, and because there's less Republicans in America than Democrats, and because they actually showed up to the polls. A galvanized Democrat base will be an inordinate number of people, compared to a galvanized Republican base. Just gotta do it without being as extreme as Republicans, so you don't alienate too many moderates (or 'moderates').

How do you both mobilize the base and not be extreme, as the base is by definition extreme compared to moderates?

Base. Mobilization. Does. Not. Work. The things you do to mobilize your base also mobilize your opponent’s, as Trump learned. It’s running in quicksand.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

How do you both mobilize the base and not be extreme, as the base is by definition extreme compared to moderates?

Base. Mobilization. Does. Not. Work. The things you do to mobilize your base also mobilize your opponent’s, as Trump learned. It’s running in quicksand.

So don't mobilize against your opponent, mobilize against a greater threat (pick one, we have a few to choose from). If necessary, take jabs at your opponent for their lack of concern, but make the focus a bigger fight than red vs blue.