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eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
9,776
4,970
136
Weird how some Dems don’t want to hold the senate vote to force Manchin to vote no because it will alienate him from the party. As if badmouthing him in the media doesn’t do the same thing???
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,620
50,820
136
Weird how some Dems don’t want to hold the senate vote to force Manchin to vote no because it will alienate him from the party. As if badmouthing him in the media doesn’t do the same thing???
I do not see what the purpose of badmouthing Manchin is. It doesn't hurt him electorally so there's no threat there. All it does is annoy him, which seems pointless.
 

gothuevos

Platinum Member
Jul 28, 2010
2,297
1,838
136
You do realize that the GOP lost control of the entire federal government over the last four or so years primarily because the public didn't like what they were doing, right?

By the slimmest of slim margins. And now it's their "turn" to take control again.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
48,045
37,235
136
I do not see what the purpose of badmouthing Manchin is. It doesn't hurt him electorally so there's no threat there. All it does is annoy him, which seems pointless.

Indeed annoying him appears counter productive.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,532
15,413
136
If manchin is a centrist democrat in West Virginia and voting democrats become upset with him then the GOP candidate has a much better chance of beating him. If he’s not going to support the very basic foundation of democrat policy then I couldn’t care less if he’s replaced by (what would have to be) a moderate Republican.

So why play with kid gloves? To protect the ability for Biden to keep appointing judges? Or what? The next president who more than likely won’t be a Republican can try and appoint judges? If republicans win the senate we get obstruction either way, except the republicans will take the blame.

I don’t see the down side of cleaning house.
 
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IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
70,194
28,883
136
I do not see what the purpose of badmouthing Manchin is. It doesn't hurt him electorally so there's no threat there. All it does is annoy him, which seems pointless.
Other Dems are looking out for their own re-elections. Endless pandering to Manchin, who is clearly not interested in the Dem agenda, disgusts the electorate who elected the Dems to achieve policy goals. Separating themselves from Manchin will be good politically.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
48,045
37,235
136
Other Dems are looking out for their own re-elections. Endless pandering to Manchin, who is clearly not interested in the Dem agenda, disgusts the electorate who elected the Dems to achieve policy goals. Separating themselves from Manchin will be good politically.

I don't think most D voters are under the impression that their congresspeople would not vote for something much larger and more beneficial than Manchin would. Manchin even openly alludes to this by saying that 48 of his colleagues would spend twice what he might agree to. Pandering to Manchin is required to move forward, simple as that. We don't have to like it and the second that he's no longer politically relevant we can curse the day he was born but I want the climate legislation, Breyer's seat refilled, etc because it matters more.
 

eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
9,776
4,970
136
Reconciliation can be used once per calendar year or is there a congressional year that it’s based on? Like if it’s a calendar year, why would dems waste this one shot along party lines to pass at least something? Even if it’s half of what was proposed in the bill, it’s better than nothing that is happening right now.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
48,045
37,235
136
But catering to him hasn't been productive, either.

Ultimately it's going to take Biden to go in and close the deal. Manchin is prickly, sensitive, and arrogant which is not a good combo for him dealing with Biden's staff. He should have publicly revealed his hard no's sooner than this but part of that seems to be related to not wanting to live through the annoyance of visibly blocking the things that have to fall out of the legislation for it to get his vote. He wants to wield the axe but not be seen doing it. But that's out the window now.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
70,194
28,883
136
Ultimately it's going to take Biden to go in and close the deal. Manchin is prickly, sensitive, and arrogant which is not a good combo for him dealing with Biden's staff. He should have publicly revealed his hard no's sooner than this but part of that seems to be related to not wanting to live through the annoyance of visibly blocking the things that have to fall out of the legislation for it to get his vote. He wants to wield the axe but not be seen doing it. But that's out the window now.
It's been visible to all that Manchin is negotiating in bad faith and has been for months. There is no upside to other Dems to continue the charade.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,049
21,168
136
So Manchin thinks people will spend the child tax credit on drugs, does he think seniors would spend the money they save on hearing aids and glasses on drugs too? Is that why he opposed Medicare covering those things?

He is really just a giant turd of a person. And still a bit better than most Republicans. Says a lot about Republicans.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
48,045
37,235
136
It's been visible to all that Manchin is negotiating in bad faith and has been for months.

Yes but now he's owned it. He hates the house and he hates the house bill and will only consent to a Senate centric process on his terms. It would've been helpful if he just came out and said that months ago but he didn't want to take the heat and hoped Biden would do it for him.

There is no upside to other Dems to continue the charade.

I'm able to separate my opinion of Manchin from the fact that there is still potentially huge upside in getting him to a deal.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
48,045
37,235
136
So Manchin thinks people will spend the child tax credit on drugs, does he think seniors would spend the money they save on hearing aids and glasses on drugs too? Is that why he opposed Medicare covering those things?

He is really just a giant turd of a person. And still a bit better than most Republicans. Says a lot about Republicans.

He's irrationally focused on a belief that any program which helps poor but otherwise able bodied people creates "dependency". Hence his various obsessions over the CTC with work requirements, drug testing, whatever.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,986
13,508
136
Manchin is a shit human being. Garbage. Not news of course

The child credit tax? Manchins real feels about it


A shit human being.


This is the agenda of the GQP, for you to fail. Why? As to not give Biden a win, to the tune of hundreds of billions dollars lost in GDP.
Republicans wants the US to fail, so as to increase chances 2022 2024 to the tune of HUNDREDS of billion of dollars… Straight from Goldman Sachs


Waste of space air and meatsack.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,049
21,168
136
He's irrationally focused on a belief that any program which helps poor but otherwise able bodied people creates "dependency". Hence his various obsessions over the CTC with work requirements, drug testing, whatever.

Of course some people will spend money with poor judgement, but there have been studies done that show most often the money goes to quality of life.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
48,045
37,235
136
Of course some people will spend money with poor judgement, but there have been studies done that show most often the money goes to quality of life.

Yes, I didn't mean to lend credibility to his position. I think it's bullshit and most studies done on the matter agree. At the end of the day though I really doubt there is anything that will change his mind so we've got to deal even if the limitations are irrational.
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,601
2,260
126
Weird how some Dems don’t want to hold the senate vote to force Manchin to vote no because it will alienate him from the party. As if badmouthing him in the media doesn’t do the same thing???

The media has been the dems bully tool for 50 years now. Even the worthless late night comedians are in on it.

Ignore the media. Follow your conscience.
 
Reactions: iRONic

iRONic

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2006
7,458
2,725
136
Shitlol
You would actually have to have a conscience to follow it...
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,260
6,344
126
The media has been the dems bully tool for 50 years now. Even the worthless late night comedians are in on it.

Ignore the media. Follow your conscience.
I think what you mean is everybody should fall in line with your programming.
 
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