Be all end all IRS > SRA thread

[SpatiallyAware]

Roush 2.3 TVS blower kit, 82mm pulley, custom tune and a pair of drag radials.
It was enough to go 10s in the 1/4 with everything else being stock. Still have full OEM exhaust including cats. Stock airbox, stock paper airfilter, etc etc etc.




I don't know in what magical universe you're talking about a "properly setup" suspension, because I'm comparing two vehicles with completely stock suspension from the factory. If the OEM can't make IRS better than SRA in stock vs stock, then I'm certainly not wasting my money to try and make the inferior out of the box system comparable to the other guy's. (GTO vs 5.0)

As for Ford going IRS in the future, I can't speak to that. I know there is no currently available Mustang able to be ordered with IRS, so I'll find out why they went IRS once they actually go IRS.

From the past I can tell you that the vast majority of IRS Cobra owners that wanted to reliably go fast in the same manor that I described have abandoned their IRS setups for SRA.

Without derailing this into debate about specific cars, you're comparing apples to oranges.. Those older GTOs are well known for having terrible suspension setups straight from the factory. The mustang is well known for having a decent SRA setup from the factory.

No one, either in this thread or others, have said that any IRS setup is better than the best SRA, do don't go twisting words around to suit your argument.


The bottom line is that IRS is technically far superior to SRA, and SRA is very noticeable in real-world driving. You may be ok with the issues of SRA, particularly if you don't care much about handling, but the fact is that they handle better on the street.

We've already had the 'big power' argument... There are a few specific situations where you would want SRA, but not very many...

 

[exdeath]

Stupid physics, allowing IRS to keep both wheels tightly on the ground. I hate when physics shows up to ruin people's illogical rants.

Yeah, and physics proves bazookas are slightly better than a handgun for self defense but most feel a handgun is still adequate.

 

[melchoir]

The bottom line is that IRS is technically far superior to SRA.
...There are a few specific situations where you would want SRA, but not very many...

So what you're saying is that it's completely application specific, and that neither is "far superior" in all circumstances to the other? Awesome.

Again, as someone who has owned both setups in performance oriented vehicles there was no noticeable decrease in ride or handling quality when switching from the IRS to SRA in standard daily driving. In fact, I had the opposite experience.

For straight line performance it's nearly always preferred to have a SRA.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Yeah, and physics proves bazookas are slightly better than a handgun for self defense but most feel a handgun is still adequate.

Yah but sometimes you need (or want) a bazooka.


...That's my personal issue with this topic, it's full of "well I only care about straight line power thus IRS sucks"

Personal opinions aside, IRS is better than SRA in every situation except drag racing.

 

[melchoir]

Yah but sometimes you need (or want) a bazooka.


...That's my personal issue with this topic, it's full of "well I only care about straight line power thus IRS sucks"

Personal opinions aside, IRS is better than SRA in every situation except drag racing.

Let me fix that.

IRS in some vehicles is better than SRA in some vehicles in some situations except drag racing ,where it's almost universally worse than SRA.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Let me fix that.

Um, ok.

Other than drag racing or for cost savings, give me an example of when a (properly setup) SRA is preferred over a (properly setup) IRS setup.

 

[heymrdj]

Um, ok.

Other than drag racing or for cost savings, give me an example of when a (properly setup) SRA is preferred over a (properly setup) IRS setup.

You took out one of the most important segments, cost savings. You're as bad as debating a religious troll, you're continually reshaping the argument into what you needed it to be. If you want something to rule the twisties the mustang isn't for you. Go cry more. There's plenty of other cars to choose from. None that match the price/performance/power of the mustang, but hey you have to trade somewhere.

 

[Howard]

Um, ok.

Other than drag racing or for cost savings, give me an example of when a (properly setup) SRA is preferred over a (properly setup) IRS setup.

Why do you care so much?

 

[SpatiallyAware]

You took out one of the most important segments, cost savings. You're as bad as debating a religious troll, you're continually reshaping the argument into what you needed it to be. If you want something to rule the twisties the mustang isn't for you. Go cry more. There's plenty of other cars to choose from. None that match the price/performance/power of the mustang, but hey you have to trade somewhere.

Wait, wait... I thought a mustang was just as good in the mountains as an m3 or any other IRS sports car!!??

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Why do you care so much?

Cuz it's a great topic for debate, and we have many threads derailed by this exact argument.

We've already made great progress with the concession that IRS is technically superior to SRA.

 

[heymrdj]

Wait, wait... I thought a mustang was just as good in the mountains as an m3 or any other IRS sports car!!??

Well I never said it so for me it's not true. I will say that having personally driven a 10 and 12 mustang and a 12 camaro, the mustang, in my every day driving (IE legally, which is 90% of what people do) was the best. So yeah for me SRA beats IRS.

If you believe that IRS is best in everything except drag racing, I feel sorry for you, you obviously have extremely little driving experience and you're nothing but an obnoxious troll who is crying endlessly on this forum so upset that you're wrong. I'm sorry we can't make you feel better, I'm sorry that you have to live every day in so much pain because you can't wrap your head around anything but the physical, not understanding that there is more to a car than the suspension itself. If you want to try to gain some knowledge (which you don't, you just want to throw out "facts" like a fundie) go debate some IRS vs SRA for trucks. You *might* learn something, doubtful though.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Well I never said it so for me it's not true. I will say that having personally driven a 10 and 12 mustang and a 12 camaro, the mustang, in my every day driving (IE legally, which is 90% of what people do) was the best. So yeah for me SRA beats IRS.

If you believe that IRS is best in everything except drag racing, I feel sorry for you, you obviously have extremely little driving experience and you're nothing but an obnoxious troll who is crying endlessly on this forum so upset that you're wrong. I'm sorry we can't make you feel better, I'm sorry that you have to live every day in so much pain because you can't wrap your head around anything but the physical, not understanding that there is more to a car than the suspension itself. If you want to try to gain some knowledge (which you don't, you just want to throw out "facts" like a fundie) go debate some IRS vs SRA for trucks. You *might* learn something, doubtful though.

It's a simple debate, don't make it personal.


Read the thread... You don't have to be anywhere near 90% to see the limitations of SRA on the street.

No doubt that there's something to the "feel" of SRA, that's not my issue.. It's that through the past few years there has been a clear "gang up on" mentality to anyone who dares to point out the fact that IRS is superior technology. Just like in your post here, someone says ok here are the facts... and the reply is a bunch of personally offended nonsense.

There's nothing inherently wrong with a car with SRA. It doesn't make your car a bad car, but to argue that SRA is 'just as good on the street' as IRS is imo pure fanboyism.

 

[jlee]

It's a simple debate, don't make it personal.


Read the thread... You don't have to be anywhere near 90% to see the limitations of SRA on the street.

No doubt that there's something to the "feel" of SRA, that's not my issue.. It's that through the past few years there has been a clear "gang up on" mentality to anyone who dares to point out the fact that IRS is superior technology. Just like in your post here, someone says ok here are the facts... and the reply is a bunch of personally offended nonsense.

There's nothing inherently wrong with a car with SRA. It doesn't make your car a bad car, but to argue that SRA is 'just as good on the street' as IRS is imo pure fanboyism.

For typical street driving, an econobox is 'just as good on the street.' SRA vs IRS in a street driving setting is a ridiculous argument.

 

[melchoir]

Um, ok.

Other than drag racing or for cost savings, give me an example of when a (properly setup) SRA is preferred over a (properly setup) IRS setup.

I already gave you an example of where a properly setup from the factory SRA (Mustang) was superior in all aspects of driving to a properly setup from the factory IRS (GTO).

In pure theory, IRS may be superior. In actual application, SRA is often superior.

Each has their strengths and weaknesses and when "setup properly" are very close in some aspects. (M3 vs 5.0)

 

[heymrdj]

It's a simple debate, don't make it personal.


Read the thread... You don't have to be anywhere near 90% to see the limitations of SRA on the street.

No doubt that there's something to the "feel" of SRA, that's not my issue.. It's that through the past few years there has been a clear "gang up on" mentality to anyone who dares to point out the fact that IRS is superior technology. Just like in your post here, someone says ok here are the facts... and the reply is a bunch of personally offended nonsense.

There's nothing inherently wrong with a car with SRA. It doesn't make your car a bad car, but to argue that SRA is 'just as good on the street' as IRS is imo pure fanboyism.

There's nothing personal about it, I spelled out what you are doing in this thread, that's the facts about it ok .

Intel is superior technology. period. done. AMD doesn't hold a close candle. No way. No how. AMD is a piece of crap that can go DIAF because it doesn't have a single competitive manner about it.

Wait except that price thing...ohh damn that's coming back up again . There's more to "technology" than technology, as my professor once put it. It's about making something the best. IRS is not superior to SRA in many circumstances. PERIOD. If you can't understand that, again, I'm sorry, we can't help you. IRS can only become superior when it has the advantages of both while coming in at a price point that is equal to or lower than SRA at the same engineering level. Till then they are both trade offs, neither holds superiority.

The world is not black and white, you'll live alot better when you can recognize that.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

For typical street driving, an econobox is 'just as good on the street.' SRA vs IRS in a street driving setting is a ridiculous argument.

Sure, next up - let's debate the merits of taking a bus versus driving.


Doesn't arizona have canyon roads?

There are plenty of mountain roads near me, with speed limits of 45-55 where you can very safely begin to push the limits of a car.

A mustang will find its safe limit at about 55.. all the time hopping through any rough cambered corners. Meanwhile the guys in porsches and BMWs are safely railing through at 70mph soaking up every bump and pebble.

If you don't care about cars or don't care about corners then by all means SRA is just fine.

 

[Throckmorton]

I already gave you an example of where a properly setup from the factory SRA (Mustang) was superior in all aspects of driving to a properly setup from the factory IRS (GTO).

In pure theory, IRS may be superior. In actual application, SRA is often superior.

Each has their strengths and weaknesses and when "setup properly" are very close in some aspects. (M3 vs 5.0)

The GTO is supposed to handle very well, and doesn't have the problems with bumpy surfaces that the Mustang does. So how is it inferior to the Mustang's SRA?

 

[SpatiallyAware]

I already gave you an example of where a properly setup from the factory SRA (Mustang) was superior in all aspects of driving to a properly setup from the factory IRS (GTO).

In pure theory, IRS may be superior. In actual application, SRA is often superior.

Each has their strengths and weaknesses and when "setup properly" are very close in some aspects. (M3 vs 5.0)

GTO is very far from a properly setup IRS and it was still reviewed better than the mustang SRA of its time.. Those GTOs have all sorts of rear end 'hopping' and skipping issues. It's like me trying to compare an m3 IRS to a grand prix rear beam... Apples to oranges..

Lol it is not just in 'pure theory'. IRS is superior in every way except drag racing (strength) and cost.

 

[Throckmorton]

10,427 mustangs sold in May 2012.

That's $1,042,700.00 saved...

Which is nothing for Ford...

 

[jlee]

Which is nothing for Ford...

Well, except for $1,042,700.00. Do you understand how a business works?

 

[Throckmorton]

For typical street driving, an econobox is 'just as good on the street.' SRA vs IRS in a street driving setting is a ridiculous argument.

Following that logic, the Mustang should be a FWD econobox. After all, a "properly set up" FWD car handles "very well" and can handle "better" than a bad RWD car.

 

[heymrdj]

GTO is very far from a properly setup IRS and it was still reviewed better than the mustang SRA of its time.. Those GTOs have all sorts of rear end 'hopping' and skipping issues. It's like me trying to compare an m3 IRS to a grand prix rear beam... Apples to oranges..

Lol it is not just in 'pure theory'. IRS is superior in every way except drag racing (strength) and cost.

Well we're starting to get some concessions from IRS now. Again I have no issues taking my little ranger at 45 mph in a mining road for the fun of it, if you can't control a canyon road in a mustang, it's driver's fault. Are you one of those people that needs a car to baby you is that the whole issue here?

 

[melchoir]

The GTO is supposed to handle very well, and doesn't have the problems with bumpy surfaces that the Mustang does. So how is it inferior to the Mustang's SRA?

Have you driven or owned either of these cars? ... I've owned both.
For every type of driving, be it ride quality while commuting, spirited cornering, or strong acceleration the Mustang's current SRA is superior to the GTO's IRS.

As someone who actually does race, I can tell you that I don't go looking for bumpy roads to have my fun on. Racing on a poor surface sounds like turning something already dangerous into something stupidly dangerous.

If people are actively searching out roads in disrepair to push their vehicle's limits on, I guess that explains why so many people end up wrapped around telephone poles.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Well we're starting to get some concessions from IRS now. Again I have no issues taking my little ranger at 45 mph in a mining road for the fun of it, if you can't control a canyon road in a mustang, it's driver's fault. Are you one of those people that needs a car to baby you is that the whole issue here?

Rofl more personal "I'm offended" drama...

I (and the other IRS supporters) have clearly stated from the get-go that IRS is not ideal for literally every situation (drag racing/strength and cost), so stop trying to twist words around like this.

Your ranger analogy shows how little you truly know about the SRA vs IRS debate. I also have a ranger, and it shows SRA problems much worse and much earlier than any other SRA I've driven. You not noticing this speaks volumes to your driving experience. As is typical with your arguments, apples to oranges...

 

[jlee]

Following that logic, the Mustang should be a FWD econobox. After all, a "properly set up" FWD car handles "very well" and can handle "better" than a bad RWD car.

I'm not sure you understand what logic is.