Be thankful you live in America

Gen Stonewall

Senior member
Aug 8, 2001
629
0
0
Browsing through the State Department website, I came across the Consular Information Sheets, which give travel advisories for apparently every country in the world. I recommend looking up information about some of our most beloved totalitarian countries, including North Korea, Cuba, China, Iran, and Saudi Arabia. I found some of the background about Saudi Arabia to be particularly stirring:

CRIMINAL PENALTIES : While in a foreign country, a U.S. citizen is subject to that country''s laws and regulations, which sometimes differ significantly from those in the United States and may not afford the protections available to the individual under U.S. law. Penalties for breaking the law can be more severe than in the United States for similar offenses. Persons violating Saudi Arabia''s laws, even unknowingly, may be expelled, arrested, imprisoned or even executed. Suspects can be detained, without charges or legal counsel and with limited consular access, for months during the investigative stage of criminal cases. As stated in Section 5 (CRIME), witnesses to possible criminal incidents also can be detained under similar circumstances for long periods of time. Even when released from detention, witnesses to criminal incidents may be prohibited from leaving the country until investigation of the incident is complete.

Penalties for the import, manufacture, possession, and consumption of alcohol or illegal drugs are severe. Convicted offenders can expect jail sentences, fines, public flogging, and/or deportation. The penalty for drug trafficking in Saudi Arabia is death. Saudi officials make no exceptions. Customs inspections at ports of entry are thorough. The U.S. Embassy and Consulates General have no standing in Saudi courts to obtain leniency for an American convicted of alcohol or drug offenses.

Besides alcohol products and illicit drugs, Saudi Arabia also prohibits the import, use, or possession of any item that is held to be contrary to the tenets of Islam (See "Customs Regulations" section above.) The private ownership of weapons is prohibited. Imported and domestic audiovisual media and reading matter are censored.

Homosexual activity is considered to be a criminal offense and those convicted may be sentenced to lashing and/or a prison sentence, or death.

SAUDI CUSTOMS, RELIGIOUS POLICE, AND GENERAL STANDARDS OF CONDUCT : Islam pervades all aspects of life in Saudi Arabia. It is the official religion of the country, and public observance of any other religion is forbidden. Public non-Muslim religious services are illegal, and public display of non-Islamic religious articles such as crosses and Bibles is not permitted. Travel to Makkah (Mecca) and Medina, the cities where the two holiest mosques of Islam are located, is forbidden to non-Muslims.

The norms for public behavior in Saudi Arabia are extremely conservative, and religious police, known as Mutawwa, are charged with enforcing these standards. Mutawwa are required to carry special identification and usually are accompanied by uniformed police. However, in some cases they have detained persons even without police presence. To ensure that conservative standards of conduct are observed, the Saudi religious police have accosted or arrested foreigners, including U.S. citizens, for improper dress or other infractions, such as consumption of alcohol or association by a female with a male to whom she is not related. While most incidents have resulted only in inconvenience or embarrassment, the potential exists for an individual to be physically harmed or deported. U.S. citizens who are involved in an incident with the Mutawwa should report the incident to the U.S. Embassy in Riyadh or the U.S. Consulates General in Jeddah or Dhahran.

The Saudi Embassy in Washington advises women traveling to Saudi Arabia to dress in a conservative fashion, wearing ankle-length dresses with long sleeves, and not to wear trousers in public. In many areas of Saudi Arabia, particularly Riyadh and the central part of the Kingdom, Mutawwa pressure women to wear a full-length black covering known as an Abaya and to cover their heads. Most women in these areas therefore wear an Abaya and carry a head-scarf to avoid being accosted. Women who appear to be of Arab or Asian origin, especially those presumed to be Muslims, face a greater risk of being confronted.

Some Mutawwa try to enforce the rule that men and women who are beyond childhood years may not mingle in public, unless they are family or close relatives. Mutawwa may ask to see proof that a couple is married or related. Women who are arrested for socializing with a man who is not a relative may be charged with prostitution. Some restaurants, particularly fast-food outlets, have refused to serve women who are not accompanied by a close male relative. In addition, many restaurants no longer have a "family section" in which women are permitted to eat. These restrictions are not always posted, and in some cases women violating this policy have been arrested. This is more common in Riyadh and the more conservative central Nejd region.

Women are not allowed to drive or ride bicycles on public roads.

In public, dancing, music and movies are forbidden.

Pornography, which is very broadly defined by Saudi authorities, is strictly forbidden.

Iran goes a step further in their enforcement of Islam by allowing the death penalty to be imposed upon Muslims who have converted to other religions and on those who try to convert Muslims to other religions.

All this gives perspective on the sort of atrocities occuring throughout the world.
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
2
0
while the leaders of those nations do everything their people are not allowed to do.

Exactly why I am not allowed in Iran. I will be executed or jailed on sight. If they find out you are against the regime you are in trouble.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
It's too bad we freedom-loving Americans aren't alllowed to travel to half of those countries to see for ourselves what heinous stuff goes on. I guess you're supposed to take the CIA's word for it. I guess you could call it propaganda.
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
2
0
Originally posted by: Infohawk
It's too bad we freedom-loving Americans aren't alllowed to travel to half of those countries to see for ourselves what heinous stuff goes on. I guess you're supposed to take the CIA's word for it. I guess you could call it propaganda.

We are allowed to go to those countries. You just need to take a flight to Europe and from Europe go to those countries. That's what people do.

These laws exisit, I just don't know how often they are carried out.

Saudi Arabia is extreme. You won't see a change either because the people seem to agree with the laws (women, music, sex, etc).
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: Infohawk
It's too bad we freedom-loving Americans aren't alllowed to travel to half of those countries to see for ourselves what heinous stuff goes on. I guess you're supposed to take the CIA's word for it. I guess you could call it propaganda.

We are allowed to go to those countries. You just need to take a flight to Europe and from Europe go to those countries. That's what people do.

These laws exisit, I just don't know how often they are carried out.

Saudi Arabia is extreme. You won't see a change either because the people seem to agree with the laws (women, music, sex, etc).

I'm not sure about all of them but you are not allowed to go to some of them. Take Cuba. Can you get there? Sure. Will the US government punish you if you do? Yes. Good luck with customs if you have a cuban stamp on your passport. Some administrations enforce it more than others do but there are certainly people who have received huge fines for going to the wrong country. I shouldn't have to go undercover to travel where I want to. That's what people in the countries he's criticizing have to do.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
It's too bad we freedom-loving Americans aren't alllowed to travel to half of those countries to see for ourselves what heinous stuff goes on. I guess you're supposed to take the CIA's word for it. I guess you could call it propaganda.

Having been to Saudi Arabia myself (although with the military and the way you're treated is quite a bit different when you're packing a .50 cal on your vehicle) and the only thing I can respond to your statement is why in the flying batf*ck would you want to travel to Saudi Arabia voluntarily?
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,884
569
126
Originally posted by: glenn1
It's too bad we freedom-loving Americans aren't alllowed to travel to half of those countries to see for ourselves what heinous stuff goes on. I guess you're supposed to take the CIA's word for it. I guess you could call it propaganda.

Having been to Saudi Arabia myself (although with the military and the way you're treated is quite a bit different when you're packing a .50 cal on your vehicle) and the only thing I can respond to your statement is why in the flying batf*ck would you want to travel to Saudi Arabia voluntarily?

So he can show his compaaaaassion to the pooorrrrrr unfortunate people of the earth and tell them its America's fault they are so poor.
 

ntdz

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
6,989
0
0
Originally posted by: Gen Stonewall
Browsing through the State Department website, I came across the Consular Information Sheets, which give travel advisories for apparently every country in the world. I recommend looking up information about some of our most beloved totalitarian countries, including North Korea, Cuba, China, Iran, and Saudi Arabia. I found some of the background about Saudi Arabia to be particularly stirring:

CRIMINAL PENALTIES : While in a foreign country, a U.S. citizen is subject to that country''s laws and regulations, which sometimes differ significantly from those in the United States and may not afford the protections available to the individual under U.S. law. Penalties for breaking the law can be more severe than in the United States for similar offenses. Persons violating Saudi Arabia''s laws, even unknowingly, may be expelled, arrested, imprisoned or even executed. Suspects can be detained, without charges or legal counsel and with limited consular access, for months during the investigative stage of criminal cases. As stated in Section 5 (CRIME), witnesses to possible criminal incidents also can be detained under similar circumstances for long periods of time. Even when released from detention, witnesses to criminal incidents may be prohibited from leaving the country until investigation of the incident is complete.

Penalties for the import, manufacture, possession, and consumption of alcohol or illegal drugs are severe. Convicted offenders can expect jail sentences, fines, public flogging, and/or deportation. The penalty for drug trafficking in Saudi Arabia is death. Saudi officials make no exceptions. Customs inspections at ports of entry are thorough. The U.S. Embassy and Consulates General have no standing in Saudi courts to obtain leniency for an American convicted of alcohol or drug offenses.

Besides alcohol products and illicit drugs, Saudi Arabia also prohibits the import, use, or possession of any item that is held to be contrary to the tenets of Islam (See "Customs Regulations" section above.) The private ownership of weapons is prohibited. Imported and domestic audiovisual media and reading matter are censored.

Homosexual activity is considered to be a criminal offense and those convicted may be sentenced to lashing and/or a prison sentence, or death.

SAUDI CUSTOMS, RELIGIOUS POLICE, AND GENERAL STANDARDS OF CONDUCT : Islam pervades all aspects of life in Saudi Arabia. It is the official religion of the country, and public observance of any other religion is forbidden. Public non-Muslim religious services are illegal, and public display of non-Islamic religious articles such as crosses and Bibles is not permitted. Travel to Makkah (Mecca) and Medina, the cities where the two holiest mosques of Islam are located, is forbidden to non-Muslims.

The norms for public behavior in Saudi Arabia are extremely conservative, and religious police, known as Mutawwa, are charged with enforcing these standards. Mutawwa are required to carry special identification and usually are accompanied by uniformed police. However, in some cases they have detained persons even without police presence. To ensure that conservative standards of conduct are observed, the Saudi religious police have accosted or arrested foreigners, including U.S. citizens, for improper dress or other infractions, such as consumption of alcohol or association by a female with a male to whom she is not related. While most incidents have resulted only in inconvenience or embarrassment, the potential exists for an individual to be physically harmed or deported. U.S. citizens who are involved in an incident with the Mutawwa should report the incident to the U.S. Embassy in Riyadh or the U.S. Consulates General in Jeddah or Dhahran.

The Saudi Embassy in Washington advises women traveling to Saudi Arabia to dress in a conservative fashion, wearing ankle-length dresses with long sleeves, and not to wear trousers in public. In many areas of Saudi Arabia, particularly Riyadh and the central part of the Kingdom, Mutawwa pressure women to wear a full-length black covering known as an Abaya and to cover their heads. Most women in these areas therefore wear an Abaya and carry a head-scarf to avoid being accosted. Women who appear to be of Arab or Asian origin, especially those presumed to be Muslims, face a greater risk of being confronted.

Some Mutawwa try to enforce the rule that men and women who are beyond childhood years may not mingle in public, unless they are family or close relatives. Mutawwa may ask to see proof that a couple is married or related. Women who are arrested for socializing with a man who is not a relative may be charged with prostitution. Some restaurants, particularly fast-food outlets, have refused to serve women who are not accompanied by a close male relative. In addition, many restaurants no longer have a "family section" in which women are permitted to eat. These restrictions are not always posted, and in some cases women violating this policy have been arrested. This is more common in Riyadh and the more conservative central Nejd region.

Women are not allowed to drive or ride bicycles on public roads.

In public, dancing, music and movies are forbidden.

Pornography, which is very broadly defined by Saudi authorities, is strictly forbidden.

Iran goes a step further in their enforcement of Islam by allowing the death penalty to be imposed upon Muslims who have converted to other religions and on those who try to convert Muslims to other religions.

All this gives perspective on the sort of atrocities occuring throughout the world.

The only country I'd even CONSIDER going to is China on that list, where they are much more tolerent of foreigners and tourism is fairly common.
 
Aug 14, 2001
11,061
0
0
Originally posted by: Infohawk
It's too bad we freedom-loving Americans aren't alllowed to travel to half of those countries to see for ourselves what heinous stuff goes on. I guess you're supposed to take the CIA's word for it. I guess you could call it propaganda.

You don't have to take the CIA's word for it. Just read up from other news organizations.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,303
15
81
Sounds like a really great place to live...

/sarcasm

I've said it before and I will say it again: Islamic culture is useless, barbaric, and contributes nothing to the betterment of mankind. The world is far better off without it.
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,062
1
0
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: Gen Stonewall
Browsing through the State Department website, I came across the Consular Information Sheets, which give travel advisories for apparently every country in the world. I recommend looking up information about some of our most beloved totalitarian countries, including North Korea, Cuba, China, Iran, and Saudi Arabia. I found some of the background about Saudi Arabia to be particularly stirring:

CRIMINAL PENALTIES : While in a foreign country, a U.S. citizen is subject to that country''s laws and regulations, which sometimes differ significantly from those in the United States and may not afford the protections available to the individual under U.S. law. Penalties for breaking the law can be more severe than in the United States for similar offenses. Persons violating Saudi Arabia''s laws, even unknowingly, may be expelled, arrested, imprisoned or even executed. Suspects can be detained, without charges or legal counsel and with limited consular access, for months during the investigative stage of criminal cases. As stated in Section 5 (CRIME), witnesses to possible criminal incidents also can be detained under similar circumstances for long periods of time. Even when released from detention, witnesses to criminal incidents may be prohibited from leaving the country until investigation of the incident is complete.

etc etc.

Iran goes a step further in their enforcement of Islam by allowing the death penalty to be imposed upon Muslims who have converted to other religions and on those who try to convert Muslims to other religions.

All this gives perspective on the sort of atrocities occuring throughout the world.

The only country I'd even CONSIDER going to is China on that list, where they are much more tolerent of foreigners and tourism is fairly common.

you missed cuba. In general a respectable place relative to the others.

edited for length
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,062
1
0
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Sounds like a really great place to live...

/sarcasm

I've said it before and I will say it again: Islamic culture is useless, barbaric, and contributes nothing to the betterment of mankind. The world is far better off without it.

thanks for advocating genocide. :thumbsup: Personally i think the world would be a far better place without idiots like you spewing this garbage, regardless of creed or religion.
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,062
1
0
Penalties for the import, manufacture, possession, and consumption of alcohol or illegal drugs are severe. Convicted offenders can expect jail sentences, fines, public flogging, and/or deportation.
Minus the flogging, this sounds a lot like a country i know :roll:
 

HalosPuma

Banned
Jul 11, 2004
498
0
0
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Sounds like a really great place to live...

/sarcasm

I've said it before and I will say it again: Islamic culture is useless, barbaric, and contributes nothing to the betterment of mankind. The world is far better off without it.

:thumbsup:
 

aidanjm

Lifer
Aug 9, 2004
12,411
2
0
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Sounds like a really great place to live...

/sarcasm

I've said it before and I will say it again: Islamic culture is useless, barbaric, and contributes nothing to the betterment of mankind. The world is far better off without it.

Islamic culture is currently in its "Dark Ages". Islamic culture was once actually incredibly rich and productive (lots of discoveries made in areas of medicine, science, mathematics -- this was centuries ago). Since then mainstream Islam has got stuck in a rut of fundamentalism, and Islamic culture (the arts, the sciences) has suffered. Hopefully the current "progressive Islam" movement will eventually spread around the world, altho at the moment it only really exists in Western nations.
 

Beowulf

Golden Member
Jan 27, 2001
1,446
0
71
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: Infohawk
It's too bad we freedom-loving Americans aren't alllowed to travel to half of those countries to see for ourselves what heinous stuff goes on. I guess you're supposed to take the CIA's word for it. I guess you could call it propaganda.

We are allowed to go to those countries. You just need to take a flight to Europe and from Europe go to those countries. That's what people do.

These laws exisit, I just don't know how often they are carried out.

Saudi Arabia is extreme. You won't see a change either because the people seem to agree with the laws (women, music, sex, etc).

I'm not sure about all of them but you are not allowed to go to some of them. Take Cuba. Can you get there? Sure. Will the US government punish you if you do? Yes. Good luck with customs if you have a cuban stamp on your passport. Some administrations enforce it more than others do but there are certainly people who have received huge fines for going to the wrong country. I shouldn't have to go undercover to travel where I want to. That's what people in the countries he's criticizing have to do.

I'm Cuban and if you go to Cuba all you will do is make the pockets richer for Castro unless you wanna have sex with a 14year old for a 1 dollar or so.I would never go back the island I left I couldn't even if I did I would be "mierda" going against a repressive government thats doesn't care about its ppl.Not too mention if I was found by the seguridad del estado I'd be screwed especially with my involvement with Alpha 66 and Brigada 2506.BTW watch PBS on Monday the documentary on Castro so you can see all the lies and the stuff he does to ppl who voice an opinion not favorable to him.Don't take my word watch it for yourself.Oh and about administrations everyone from JFK to Bill Clinton to George W. Bush have kept their foreign policy to the island clear.Clear enough that JFK embrassed himself to the world in his failure of bay of pigs.Atleast he had some cojones to stand up to Castro even though he sent tons of innocents to die.
 

KidViciou$

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,998
0
0
Originally posted by: Infohawk
It's too bad we freedom-loving Americans aren't alllowed to travel to half of those countries to see for ourselves what heinous stuff goes on. I guess you're supposed to take the CIA's word for it. I guess you could call it propaganda.

this aint no CIA propaganda, where'd u get that idea??
 

illustri

Golden Member
Mar 14, 2001
1,490
0
0
aidanjm

/you're from melbourne? i once worked with a post doc from prince henry institute, nice guy

Islamic culture is currently in its "Dark Ages". Islamic culture was once actually incredibly rich and productive (lots of discoveries made in areas of medicine, science, mathematics -- this was centuries ago). Since then mainstream Islam has got stuck in a rut of fundamentalism, and Islamic culture (the arts, the sciences) has suffered. Hopefully the current "progressive Islam" movement will eventually spread around the world, altho at the moment it only really exists in Western nations.

they need mtv
 

KidViciou$

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,998
0
0
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Sounds like a really great place to live...

/sarcasm

I've said it before and I will say it again: Islamic culture is useless, barbaric, and contributes nothing to the betterment of mankind. The world is far better off without it.

what a prejudice and racist prick!
 

KidViciou$

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,998
0
0
Originally posted by: HalosPuma
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Sounds like a really great place to live...

/sarcasm

I've said it before and I will say it again: Islamic culture is useless, barbaric, and contributes nothing to the betterment of mankind. The world is far better off without it.

:thumbsup:

here's another one


sticking up for his aryan brother i guess :roll:
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Who are we to judge? If their society can exist without alcohol, illegal drugs, pornography, prostitution, widespread adultery, etc., so be it. Much worse occurs all across the globe on a daily basis besides some horny Arabs being deprived of their nudie mags and vodka.
 
Aug 14, 2001
11,061
0
0
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Who are we to judge? If their society can exist without alcohol, illegal drugs, pornography, prostitution, widespread adultery, etc., so be it. Much worse occurs all across the globe on a daily basis besides some horny Arabs being deprived of their nudie mags and vodka.

I don't think it's that bad if they decide to ban alcohol, drugs, pornography or whatever. However, if they restrict religion and so on then they deserve critical remarks.

You may not feel comfortable to judge anyone under such a circumstance, but I do.
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,884
569
126
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Sounds like a really great place to live...

/sarcasm

I've said it before and I will say it again: Islamic culture is useless, barbaric, and contributes nothing to the betterment of mankind. The world is far better off without it.

Islamic culture is currently in its "Dark Ages". Islamic culture was once actually incredibly rich and productive (lots of discoveries made in areas of medicine, science, mathematics -- this was centuries ago). Since then mainstream Islam has got stuck in a rut of fundamentalism, and Islamic culture (the arts, the sciences) has suffered. Hopefully the current "progressive Islam" movement will eventually spread around the world, altho at the moment it only really exists in Western nations.

LOL @ Progressive Islam

Where is this so called progressive islam?
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,884
569
126
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Who are we to judge? If their society can exist without alcohol, illegal drugs, pornography, prostitution, widespread adultery, etc., so be it. Much worse occurs all across the globe on a daily basis besides some horny Arabs being deprived of their nudie mags and vodka.

right, no alcohol, drugs or sex ... but .....

they want to kill your children and conver you to Islam, other than that they are great human beings (speaking of the radical islamists)
 
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