Beat LA, Beat LA, Beat LA, Beat LA, Beat LA, Beat LA, Beat LA, Beat LA, Beat LA,Beat LA, Beat LA

[ggavinmoss]

<< Remember the last time the Lakers go undefeated into Finals in 1989? They got sweeped by Detriot. >>



True, but Magic and Byron Scott were injured, no? No sweep of the Lakers.

 

[Presence]

<< Jordan never put 100 points but I would easily say he was the most dominate player to ever play the game. >>



Please make up your mind. Is Shaq the most dominant player ever or not?

Your post would make sense if that is what I said... I said he is the most dominating to ever play his position. So dont try to take what I said out of context.

 

[afropick]

Ya know, I like the Lakers and all, and yes they've been playing some of their best basketball in the playoffs, but even tho the odds are against 'em... I'm going with Philly.

Lakers will lose because...
1) None of the teams they swept has the heart that Philly does.
2) Most of those team's Centers were scared of Shaq. Motumbo is not.
3) &quot;Isn't Shaq the best this?. Kobe's the best that, huh?&quot; Lots of questions, but Philly has The Answer!

 

[prontospyder]

GO LAKERS!

 

[Presence]

&quot;Isn't Shaq the best this?. Kobe's the best that, huh?&quot; Lots of questions, but Philly has The Answer


lol thats a good line. But Iverson cannont consistently shoot the way he did in game 7. He shoots too many 11-38 games that he will kill the sixers himself.

 

[classy]

Shawn Bradley, Dallas
Robinson for the Spurs
Sabonis for the Blazers
Hakeem for the Rockets
Divac for the Kings
Olden Polynice and Greg Ostertag for the Jazz, What a joke.
Tsakalidis for the Suns with Chris Dudley for his backup, hahahahahahahaha
Dampier for Golden State, he should be in the cba
Olowokandi for the Clippers, rookie, young boy
Ewing for Seattle, should have been retired
Reeves for the Grzzlies, guy can?t play man, lucky to have a job.
Nesterovic for the Wolves. He averaged a whopping 4.5 pts a game
LaFrentz for the Nuggets

These are the centers Shaq faces out west night in and out. Outside of Lafrentz and Hakeem (when he's healthy) the rest of them suck. Bums most of them. Yeah Shaq is really dominating some great centers there. Ewing should have been gone. Man I couldn't see Wilt schooling Chris Dudley and Divac though. Yeah right. Wilt could outplay these bums from his grave. Shaq has great numbers against a bunch of nobody's and has beens. He should be averaging 40 a game. But he's not and that should tell you something.

 

[Stark]

<< Matt Geiger is a starting center >>



The rest of your take is equally dumb.

Talk your talk now. You'll be hiding under your troll bridge once Shaq shows who the real MVP is.

 

[Presence]

Classy-

All those players mentioned above would also have a field day with the competition that Wilt and Russel faced. try to keep in mind they faced slow small white people. They were like the only players in the league at the time above 6 foot heh.

Please mention some of the names wilt and russel faced please?

 

[jjm]

Career Stats

Wilt
Games 1,045
FG% 54%
FT% 51%
RPG 22.9
APG 4.4
PPG 30.1

Russell
Games 963
FG% 44%
FT% 56%
RPG 22.5
APG 4.3
PPG 15.1

Shaq
Games 564
FG% 58%
FT% 53%
RPG 12.4
APG 2.7
PPG 27.4

Let's see. Shaq is supposed to be a great defender, but his rebounds per game suck. Shaq is supposed to be a great team player, but his assists per game suck. Hmmm. He has a high average points per game, but still not near Wilt's. But, hey, if you're a selfish ball hog like Shaq, you'd expect him to be a leader in that one category.

And if you look it up, both Wilt and Russell had better numbers after 564 games, so we'll see how Shaq does as his career winds down.

At 7' 1&quot;, no one today would have had his way with Wilt. Especially not someone as slow as Shaq.

 

[hpkeeper]

Classy... who's in the eastern conference that is a centerthat is acctually good? you listed all the guys from the west... now lets see the east... I can think of one good one in the east and that is Zo.

 

[classy]

<< Classy-

All those players mentioned above would also have a field day with the competition that Wilt and Russel faced. try to keep in mind they faced slow small white people. They were like the only players in the league at the time above 6 foot heh.

Please mention some of the names wilt and russel faced please? >>



How about some these names off of the 50 greatest players list:
Rick Barry
Elgin Baylor
Bob Cousy
Hal Greer
John Havlicek
Sam Jones
Jerry Lucas
Bob Pettit
Willis Reed
Nate Thurmond
Bill Sharman
Jerry West
Lenny Wilkens

There were 50 voted for. Including Wilt and Russel, 16 or 17 were from that era.

Damn I forgot the guy who many argue might be the greatest ever, who also is from that era. Oscar Robertson

 

[Optimus]

The Kings were ousted from the playoffs by Colorado and I've never heard of any NHL team called the &quot;Sixers&quot;... what kinda wierd arse sport are you all talking about?

Eh?



(Optimus moons the entire thread and runs for his hockey-lovin' life)

 

[BlazingSaddles]

<< How about some these names off of the 50 greatest players list:
Rick Barry
Elgin Baylor
Bob Cousy
Hal Greer
John Havlicek
Sam Jones
Jerry Lucas
Bob Pettit
Willis Reed
Nate Thurmond
Bill Sharman
Jerry West
Lenny Wilkens

There were 50 voted for. Including Wilt and Russel, 16 or 17 were from that era.

Damn I forgot the guy who many argue might be the greatest ever, who also is from that era. Oscar Robertson >>




most of those guys aren't centers! you were listing current centers shaq plays against then you list guards/forwards wilt/russel didn't even defend?

 

[Presence]

LOL Classy you just named a bunch of guards....hmmm Wilts Rebounds are higher BECAUSE of the fact no one else was above 6 foot...I hope he would be able to out rebound 5 foot 10 white people that cant jump worth a lick.

 

[stingbandel]

Classy: You list all the west centers that are still active playing but where is the east list that are currently active? I believe this season the most dominating player is Duncan in the west. Even though I am a Laker fan, I have to be fair when judging players, when I think the player is good then I say he is good no matter from what team they are. I never say Iverson is not good. I admit he deserves to get the MVP this season for his amazing games this season. But there is no purpose of defending Mutombo, he can do nothing. He was good on the last game against Milwakee, that's all (because once again, Johnson and Cafey can do nothing). I think the best center in the east is Mourning and he didn't play until the playoff so Mutombo didn't have any challenge at all in the east since no good centers at all (Maybe Camby if you want to count one). In the west, Shaq had to defend against Robinson, Sabonis(old but not really bad). Lakers mostly deal with good power forward in the west (Duncan, Webber, Wallace). So please give me the list of east center, I would like to see your judgement on this.

Darno

NB: forgot to add Malone

 

[classy]

<<

<< How about some these names off of the 50 greatest players list:
Rick Barry
Elgin Baylor
Bob Cousy
Hal Greer
John Havlicek
Sam Jones
Jerry Lucas
Bob Pettit
Willis Reed
Nate Thurmond
Bill Sharman
Jerry West
Lenny Wilkens

There were 50 voted for. Including Wilt and Russel, 16 or 17 were from that era.

Damn I forgot the guy who many argue might be the greatest ever, who also is from that era. Oscar Robertson >>




most of those guys aren't centers! you were listing current centers shaq plays against then you list guards/forwards wilt/russel didn't even defend? >>



Thats the whole point. Shaq has not played against another great center because there are none. Except maybe you can put Hakeem in there. And Hakeem just flat out ate Shaq alive. Outside of that there are none. Wilt did have Russel to battle him. Then came along Kareem along with a couple others. But he was far more dominate than Shaq is. The slop Shaq plays against is awful. If a young Wilt played today he might average 50 for a career. Ewing and Zo aren't bad, but clearly the guys he plays are just total garbage. And the best players in this era are the guards and forwards. When Wilt went against the Celtics, boy they had some players on that squad. Shaq has not faced a center in their prime like a Russel. The only one was Hakeem and history has repeated itself time and time again in that one, Shaq gets schooled. Wilt was the same player but taller and from the looks of it quicker. I like Shaq, I really do, but people are going way overboard with this Shaq and Kobe stuff. Oh forgot about Robinson. But Shaq never really dominated any of those guys until here recently. And most of those guys are in the down spirals of their careers. Ewing, Robinson, and Hkeem. Zo is still young, but he is really a 6'10 power forward who plays center. And look at his stats against Mutumbo. Shaq for a career avgs about 28 a game. Against Mutumbo he's at 22. Rebounds and shoooting percentage are also lower against him. But Mutumbo might be the best defensive center ever. Now take him and add the skills and scoring of Hakeem and thats your Wilt and then some. Shaq is not and never will be better than Chamberlain. Even Ray Charles can see that.

 

[classy]

<< Classy: You list all the west centers that are still active playing but where is the east list that are currently active? I believe this season the most dominating player is Duncan in the west. Even though I am a Laker fan, I have to be fair when judging players, when I think the player is good then I say he is good no matter from what team they are. I never say Iverson is not good. I admit he deserves to get the MVP this season for his amazing games this season. But there is no purpose of defending Mutombo, he can do nothing. He was good on the last game against Milwakee, that's all (because once again, Johnson and Cafey can do nothing). I think the best center in the east is Mourning and he didn't play until the playoff so Mutombo didn't have any challenge at all in the east since no good centers at all (Maybe Camby if you want to count one). In the west, Shaq had to defend against Robinson, Sabonis(old but not really bad). Lakers mostly deal with good power forward in the west (Duncan, Webber, Wallace). So please give me the list of east center, I would like to see your judgement on this.

Darno

NB: forgot to add Malone >>



I'll say this again really slow. There are no great centers playing now. Mutumbo might be the best defensive center ever. See other posts. All of Shaq's numbers are lower against him. He plays against no one for 95% of the games he plays. No one.

 

[stingbandel]

Where is the current east centers? I don't see any reply from you Classy. Now for Shaq and Mutombo.

Shaq-----> Won MVP Regular season and MVP Final
Mutombo ------> Won NOTHING....

Is that enough to prove? Since there is no ending on this, why don't we just see on Wednesday? I'll be online this wednesday and we'll see who will have the last laugh

Darno

 

[stingbandel]

Classy: As I said before, the best center in the east right now is Mourning and he is injured. Mutombo is a good player but he can't match up with Shaq, and like I said we'll see this wednesday, I'll be online and we shall see who will have the last laugh

Darno

 

[classy]

<< Where is the current east centers? I don't see any reply from you Classy. Now for Shaq and Mutombo.

Shaq-----> Won MVP Regular season and MVP Final
Mutombo ------> Won NOTHING....

Is that enough to prove? Since there is no ending on this, why don't we just see on Wednesday? I'll be online this wednesday and we'll see who will have the last laugh

Darno >>



Oh I see another bandwagon Lakers fan. People like you are a dime a dozen.

 

[Presence]

Classy so let me get this straight ... you honestly believe Wilt Chamberlain in his prime could beat Shaq???

 

[GasX]

Presence - this debate is what it is because you said Shaq is the most dominant player ever. That is a farcical statement. If you don't understand that, then you need to learn better semantics. Wilt and Russell both dominated the game in a way Shaq never will.

Is Shaq a better player? Arguably yes, but that is irrelevant to the statement YOU made.

 

[afropick]

stingbandel says:


<< Shaq-----> Won MVP Regular season and MVP Final
Mutombo ------> Won NOTHING.... >>



Try this season buddy: Dikembe Mutombo = Defensive Player of the Year

 

[jjm]

One on one, Wilt would win any battle against Shaq. As his rebounding shows, and if you look at the old film, Wilt was a far better position player and was superior at blocking out. So was Russell for that matter. Wilt also was much quicker and had better hands than Shaq. As I proved earlier, Wilt's numbers still prove he was better than Shaq. And at 7'1&quot;, Wilt would not be dominated by Shaq at all.

 

[SuperCyrix]

Since somebody already mention something about Jordan and Kobe, it's fair for me to say.

Just remember a few things.

-Jordan never had a Shaq on his team. The best center they had was Longly, and 2nd stringer in Pheonix.

-Consider for a moment that the triagle offense require a dominating post up player. Jordan was a mere shooting guard, he posted people up like a power foward and to 6 nba championships.

-Jordan spent his earlier days being coached by a younger less experienced Phil Jackson and staff. Kobe has the benefit of a coach coming in with the experience of 6 nba championships. Just remember how reckless this guy was under Harris, and people should realize just what an luxury it is to have probably the best coach in the NBA early in your career.

Comparing the chicago team to the Lakers team head on.

Center- Shaq and Longly: winner Shaq by a landslide

PowerFoward - Rodman vs Horace. Rodman is a better rebounder and a slightly better defender. Horace is a far better shooter than Rodman so the Power Foward position still goes to Horace.

Small Foward - Scotty Pippen vs Rick Fox. Scotty Pippen is a far better defender, but Rick Fox is still an outstanding defender. Rick was the #1 guy when he was with the Celtics, he can really score and people don't realize that. Pippen is an ok scorer. Pippen by a thin margin.

Shooting Guard - Jordan vs Kobe: Jordan

Point Guard - Ron Harper vs Derek Fisher. Both are about equal on the defensive end. Fisher is a far better shooter. Harper can take it to the rim. One has more problem guarding the smaller guy, the other has a problem guarding the bigger guy. PUSH.

Putting these two teams side by side, it seems fairly close. Take out Jordan and Kobe and the Lakers are a far better team. Just goes to show how good Jordan was.

Also realize, Kobe is on a team full of veterans still in their Prime. Fox, Oneal, and Fisher are at their prime. Horace can still play and Horry is a great backup Power Foward with surprising 3 point range. In other word, Kobe entered into an already rosy situation.

Jordan entered a team that was rebuiding with a close to a league worst .300 record.
For all you Kobe worshippers out there who likes to point out that Kobe already has a title so early in his career, can you stil make that statement if Kobe was drafted by the Vancouver Grizzlies?