Belkin.11G router $9.99 AR notebook or pc card $4.99 AR w/router

allisolm

Elite Member
Administrator
Jan 2, 2001
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If you didn't get this router at Best Buy last week, it's at Circuit City this week, same price ($9.99 AR). Add a card to the router, and the card will be $4.99 AR.

Belkin Wireless g router F5D72304 $9.99 after $40 and $20 MIRs.

Buy the router and either the notebook card F5D7010 or the desktop card F5D7000 and save another $20 making the card $4.99 after $25 MIR and $20 combined purchase rebate.
Rebate form for combined purchase




 

Mendayen

Junior Member
May 10, 2003
16
0
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From my understanding, these products are not WPA-capable.

Does anyone know how realistic it is for someone to be able to break into a WEP-protected network? Would it be easy to have automated monitoring for the network? Suppose an intruder manages to access the network, would there be a way to disable the WAN connection or force the router to shut itself down?

The prices are attractive. I'm looking to setup a 3+ computer LAN when my family moves and so far it looked like a big investment versus just keeping our current wired setup.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,453
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Originally posted by: Mendayen
From my understanding, these products are not WPA-capable.
Does anyone know how realistic it is for someone to be able to break into a WEP-protected network?
Three hours or less? WEP is utterly, utterly, useless these days - at least against a determined attacker. (Note, I've not dared personally test this, but I've read enough about the evolving cracking tools to make the decision to switch my own network over to WPA.)

I don't mean to crap on Allisolm's deal here, but for the security of one's own network, I would in fact have to strongly advise against purchasing any 802.11 gear that isn't at least WPA-capable. In fact, WPA2 is coming out soon, as an enhancement to the original WPA.
Originally posted by: Mendayen
Would it be easy to have automated monitoring for the network? Suppose an intruder manages to access the network, would there be a way to disable the WAN connection or force the router to shut itself down?
I've thought about something like that too - it's called an "IDS". The problem is, with wireless, if they want to sniff and steal data, not steal access, then they can sit in the background, passively cracking your network's (WEP) encryption, and you'll never know!. That's the real danger here. You could be using WEP, thinking that your network is "secure", and your neighbors could be secretly voyeuristically logging all of the URLs that you visit, etc. It's not all about stealing access, although that is of primary importantance to "wardrivers". The real danger, at least for a fixed-location wireless LAN using weak encryption like WEP, is from other potential fixed-location sniffers. (I have at least 3-4 neighbors here with wireless LANs too, all with WEP enabled.)

The best that WEP can do, really, is serve as a declaration of intent, a "no trespassing" sign, if you will. But it doesn't offer the same level of security, as say, a barbed-wire or razor-wire fence. That's more akin to WPA and WPA2, respectively.
Originally posted by: Mendayen
The prices are attractive. I'm looking to setup a 3+ computer LAN when my family moves and so far it looked like a big investment versus just keeping our current wired setup.
Security-wise, if it's feasable to keep the wired network - do so. The only reason that I'm even on wireless right now, is because of the logistics of running a wired cable through several rooms and hallways, in a location where it's not feasable to drill into the walls. Wireless is fine for general internet-access, but LAN file-sharing, media-streaming, and probably even DVD-burning - it's not fast enough, at least not 802.11g. Perhaps the newest MIMO wireless products will improve upon that.

Still... are the Belkin 'G' routers hackable, with 3rd-party firmware? That would make this deal rather uber-hot, as then you wouldn't have to drop $60 on a WRT just to be able to use hacked firmware. Even if WPA isn't implimented in the factory-stock firmware, if 3rd-party firmwares are available, you can be sure that it will eventually be added, if not already.

(Although performance, if the encryption used by WPA is performed in software, won't be as good as a router that contains hardware-assisted crypto. AFAIK, my WRT65Gv2 has some sort of AES128 hardware module inside, I don't see any noticable performance hit in my DSL line's bandwidth from enabling it. But even slower WPA is better than faster-but-insecure WEP, IMHO.)

mfg's link - no WPA
SeattleWireless docs on hacking this router!
more links to links on hacking Belkin routers
According to that page and the prior one, many/most of these routers are based on the Broadcom network-processor reference-design (like the LinkSys WRT54G series is)... but some of the models/versions only ship with 2MB flash in the unit, which isn't enough space to run the 3rd-party firmwares in. So read up on those different models, and perhaps that will give you enough info to be able to pick out one that might be hackable at the store.

Good luck, sounds like it could be a very worthy YMMV type deal on whether they are hackable or not. Even if it isn't, at $10 AR, it would be worth it to use as a 100Mbit switch for your local LAN even.
 

cruzer

Senior member
Dec 30, 2001
482
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0
I have this Belkin router, and can confirm it supports WPA, in both PSK and RADIUS Server. It will encrypt using both TKIP or AES, your choice.

It uses the same hardware as Linksys and Sveasoft announced this model will be supported by its upcoming Talisman firmware.
 
Jun 20, 2003
42
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I was kicking myself for missing the Belkin deal at BB last week. But this one includes the desktop adapter too! Thanks OP.

Plus, if I read these responses correctly, it is possible to upgrade the firmware and use WPA?
 

gwag

Senior member
Feb 25, 2004
608
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0
I know 802.11 security is a joke, but if you secure it by mac address are you safe from people using your network?
 

nekote

Senior member
May 22, 2001
693
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0
Re-confirm the newest / latest and greatest - WPA, right out of the box.
(Assuming they're shipping the same Belkin F5D7230-4 version 2000 with 4.05.03 firmware I got from BestBuy's deal last week, that is)

With a Radius server (whatever that is) or without server.
TKIP or AES encryption, with either.

Plus the older WEP 64 and 128 bit.

Really wonder about the 1800' range claim, though!
 

nekote

Senior member
May 22, 2001
693
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0
Originally posted by: gwag
I know 802.11 security is a joke, but if you secure it by mac address are you safe from people using your network?
Live and learn (from VirtualLarry's post, below, wireless insecurity)!

This is the BS I have been telling myself:
PRE-EDIT:
Yes, specifying exact MAC address(es) is an excellent and highly recommended (IMHO) additional layer of security (Of course, unless the authorized MAC address(es) are discovered / guessed / compromised / cracked by brute force - and then are "cloned".).

Of course, turning on MAC security / address filtering and specifing the MAC address(es) eliminates the possibility of intentionally offering access to any other MAC address(es), which is the point, right? If "friends" come over, you have to *manually* add (and then remove!?) their MAC address(es) from the router's list of authorized MACs.

Also, FWIW, the number of MAC addresses will probably have some fairly finite limit - 5? 50?
And, on the Belkin F5D7230-4 unit I'm checking, it appears that when the MAC address filtering / security is turned on, it might also apply to the wired side of the router, as well (current wired DHCP leases were already on the potential list of MACs).


EDIT:
According to VirtualLarry's link, my primary assumption is complete BS.

The MAC addresses aren't changed into "pseudo" (encrypted) MAC addresses?? The MAC addresses are really transmitted in plain (clear) text, leaving only the (weak assed password) encryption as the only real, remaining level of security??? What sort of idiot designing a wireless security system would make that mistake?

I had already read an April *no* Fool's Day story on the older WEP security being a joke:
FBI's 3-Minute WEP Hack - WEP: Wet cardboard security

WPA almost as worthless, *WITHOUT* TRUE STRONG PASSWORDs ?

Well, better late than never!!!

Thank you very, very much, VirtualLarry, for a "Golden Nugget" post!
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,453
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Originally posted by: gwag
I know 802.11 security is a joke, but if you secure it by mac address are you safe from people using your network?
Nope, not at all. link

Edit: Btw, I was scratching my head too, when I found out that the MAC addresses weren't encrypted either, a while back. I immediately thought about re-designing a system, such that they were encrypted, or could hold a cryptographically-secure checksum instead. Kind of vaguely like how IPSEC works.

The problem with plaintext MACs, isn't just with the encryption - there's no authentication at all either. You can't trust them at all, and that's a problem, in some scenarios. (If they were a cryptographically-secure means of authentication of wireless nodes, sure, MAC filtering would be a really powerful wireless security features. That's what WPA with RADIUS is also supposed to be able to accomplish, but you need a back-end server for that.)
 

mscdex0

Platinum Member
Apr 10, 2003
2,868
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Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
Originally posted by: gwag
I know 802.11 security is a joke, but if you secure it by mac address are you safe from people using your network?
Nope, not at all. link

Darn you! I was about to post that link!
 

HossWTC

Member
Oct 10, 1999
68
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0
Anyone willing to post their experiences with this router? I'm looking at this one or the Linksys WRT54G. I saw that the internals of the two are very similar...
 

mscdex0

Platinum Member
Apr 10, 2003
2,868
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Originally posted by: HossWTC
Anyone willing to post their experiences with this router? I'm looking at this one or the Linksys WRT54G. I saw that the internals of the two are very similar...

Go for the WRT54g. It's much better, even though similar hardware. At least if you get it, you won't have to wait for sveasoft (which is the only one planning on making 3rd party firmware for the belkin) to release a new version of their firmware for the belkin.
 

nekote

Senior member
May 22, 2001
693
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0
Originally posted by: HossWTC
Anyone willing to post their experiences with this router? I'm looking at this one or the Linksys WRT54G. I saw that the internals of the two are very similar...
An additional reason.

According to link earlier versions (V1000 to v1111xx) had 4 MB flash and 16 MB RAM (and the WRT54G?).

Whereas v1444 and up (v2000, in this case) has trimmed down memory - 2MB flash, 8MB RAM, probably saving somebody 5¢ or so, somewhere.

1/2 memory makes it *more difficult* for third parties (eg: Sveasoft) to offer as much versatility - which is why the Talisman firmware for the v2000 will probably be a stripped down version.

The so called "Micro" version Sveasoft New Talisman Firmware- The Micro build is for devices with 2 MB of flash memory. This enables a subset of the core Talisman features on router models such as the WAP54G. The Micro build does not include external protocol packages such as PPPoE, PPTP, or DHCP.
 

nekote

Senior member
May 22, 2001
693
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Originally posted by: allisolmBelkin F5D72304 ... $9.99 after $40 and $20 MIRs.

Buy the router and either the notebook card F5D7010 or the desktop card F5D7000 save another $20 making the card $4.99 after $20 MIR
I think there is a wishful thinking error here.

$69.99 Router - $40 MIR (Mail In Rebate)
$44.99 PCI or PCMCIA card - each has a $25 MIR

1 *single* $20 "bonus" MIR, in addition, when purchasing a router / card pair?

So total MIR = $40 + $25 + $20 = $85 (not $105 - only 1 $20 "combo" MIR, not 2) ?
Thus $20 more AR = $34.98 + sales tax on pre-rebate pricing?

Not at all a bad deal.
But not quite as great as $14.98.
 

allisolm

Elite Member
Administrator
Jan 2, 2001
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Originally posted by: nekote
Originally posted by: allisolmBelkin F5D72304 ... $9.99 after $40 and $20 MIRs.

Buy the router and either the notebook card F5D7010 or the desktop card F5D7000 save another $20 making the card $4.99 after $20 MIR
I think there is a wishful thinking error here.

$69.99 Router - $40 MIR (Mail In Rebate)
$44.99 PCI or PCMCIA card - each has a $25 MIR

1 *single* $20 "bonus" MIR, in addition, when purchasing a router / card pair?

So total MIR = $40 + $25 + $20 = $85 (not $105 - only 1 $20 "combo" MIR, not 2) ?
Thus $20 more AR = $34.98 + sales tax on pre-rebate pricing?

Not at all a bad deal.
But not quite as great as $14.98.

For the router it is $69.99 less $20 (Belkin dept 60352 rebate no limit)) less $40 (CC rebate YE689) = $9.99.

For one card or the other (you can only get one) it is $49.99 less $25 (Belkin 60352 no limit) less $20 combined purchase rebate (YE690) = $4.99.



 

nekote

Senior member
May 22, 2001
693
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allisolm, I LOVE you!

Thanks very much!
At least, I (and my neighbors, physical and ATwise) sure do hope so!

In particular, for all 9 yards on the IDs on:
$20 Belkin 60352 (no limit), $40 CC YE689, $25 Belkin 60352 (no limit), $20 CC YE690 MIRs

Thanks for taking the time and making the effort!
 

tishoo

Member
Feb 8, 2005
91
0
0
I use 3 of these in a bridged network, with (unfortunately) only WEP-128 and MAC filtering enabled (no clients allowed). My routing is handled by a separate router with better MAC filtering for individual devices etc.

I agree that someone could be snooping my network (!) but I'm fine with waiting to install a WPA-capable version of the new firmware for bridging only. I have 2 of the 2MB-only routers, and one 16MB one (if I'm reading model numbers right). My network performance is incredible, considering its spread over multiple floors and includes multiple TiVos, PCs and Vonage etc.
 

nekote

Senior member
May 22, 2001
693
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0
Easy links - for my and others easy reference

main CircuityCity Rebates site

helpful CircuitCity.com Rebate Status Lookup


Lotta' hoops for $105 in total rebates, split over 3 submissions.
If it was to take an hour, think of it as paying $105 / hour.
And it ain't gonna' take a whole hour!
Especially with these helpful links!

For those of you more masochistically inclined, you can think of it as avoiding a $105 fine or stupidity or laziness tax, for having bought the deal but failing to file!

Belkin rebate 60352 .pdf form - $20 wireless F5D7230 (F5D72304) router & $25 (PCI or PCMCIA) wireless card


CC YE689 $40 online rebate submission
or, fill in the blank form: CC YE689 $40 rebate .pdf form for F5D7230 (F5D72304) wireless router

CC YE690 $20 online rebate submission
or, fill in the blank form: CC YE690 $20 .pdf rebate form for combined router / adapter purchase


Jees, I hope I got all those links correct.
That was confusing.
Please advise / suggest correct link(s), if I fouled up!
 

allisolm

Elite Member
Administrator
Jan 2, 2001
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Thanks for all the work to keep us out of trouble, nekote. And don't forget that the link to the rebate center as well as the CC rebate phone number are permanently located in the first post in the Rebate Tracking thread along with similar information for all the major rebate centers, manufacturers and stores. Here. Also has all the information on where to complain if things go bad as well as rebate tracking programs, articles, hints and more.
 
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