Benedict XVI - Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger of Germany becomes the 265th pope of the Roman Catholic Church

[cquark]

Originally posted by: Deptacon

please enlighten me how a pope can be dangerous to a church......

A bad leader can harm any organization. For the Papacy, look up the Protestant Reformation and the spending and revenue-gathering policies of the Renaissance Popes.

 

[cquark]

Originally posted by: Deptacon

Originally posted by: DanJ

All I'm asking for is a Pope that:

A) Supports contraceptives as AIDS eliminates massive parts of the world.
B) Supports women's rights in the church.
C) Removes child molesters from the Church.

Is that too much to ask? Apparently, with this choice, yes.

i know less about this guy then i know about you..... so how the hell can you jump to conclusions so fast....

Ratzinger's been a major figure in the Catholic Church for decades. There's a large amount of his public statements and written materials to base opinions about him on.

 

[cquark]

Originally posted by: Deptacon
duhhh he is a freakin cardinal.... of course he is a decent guy

Cardinals and popes are quite often not decent people. Read any history of the Papacy.

 

[cquark]

Originally posted by: KK
What the hell where they thinking appointing a german. :roll: Should have made it French to royally piss off the US.

Actually, Cardinal Lustiger, former Archbishop of Paris, was considered to be one of the most likely possibilities. He's one of the most powerful cardinals and was a close friend of JP2. Interestingly, he's also a Jew, who converted to Catholicism after being impressed with the faith of his foster parents who raised him after he escaped the Nazis.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Crimson

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Crimson

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Awwwww, how touching seeing all the Sheeple defend the Religious Mob Ruler.

Awwwww, how touching seeing all the Sheeple critical of the Religious leader because he doesn't support their liberal views. So 'Open-minded' thou art.

Since it's obviously oblivious to you, the world has become more socially liberal as time has marched on. The Catholic Church prefers to be Left Behind.

Yeah thats why the left keeps winning elections.. oh wait.. I might agree with you that the world has been moving left, however, I think recently, especially in the United States, its moving back to the right.. Many think we went too far left.

Again, the job of the church is not to validate your liberal views..

The job of the church? What job is that? To continue the lie of a divine Christ? To continue the lie of an "infallable" Pope? To perpetuate ignorance of birth control? To foster the sexual molestation of young boys?

At this point you lose me. Lie of a divine Christ? All of Christianity is based on this. I know a whole lot of Christians I trust and respect more than just about anyone here, including you.

You may agree with it or not, but you have no evidence for your claim.

I have come to the conclusion that many of the people here hate Bush and others not because of what they do, but because they hate Christians of all stripe.

I see the same hate as they say they see in those who were frothing at the mouth to bomb Iraq.

Neither side seems better than the other, at least not here. The primary reason for posting here is (and pretty much always was) is to demonstrate you can out hate the other side.

Occasionally there is an informative post or a thoughtful comment (enough to make me come back here now and again), but the rest of you live in a moral and intellectual cesspit. No wonder people in the other forums make fun of posters here.

Bah, humanity sucks in general and this thread just proves the rule.

 

[cquark]

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
I have come to the conclusion that many of the people here hate Bush and others not because of what they do, but because they hate Christians of all stripe.

That's an odd conclusion to come to unless these people hate all US Presidents within the lifetime of anyone now living, as they've all been Christians.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: cquark

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
I have come to the conclusion that many of the people here hate Bush and others not because of what they do, but because they hate Christians of all stripe.

That's an odd conclusion to come to unless these people hate all US Presidents within the lifetime of anyone now living, as they've all been Christians.

Not really. I really really don't like Bush, but for his actions. Rarely do I bring up his claimed religion, nor his drug use or past alcohol abuse. Everyone can screw up. When I DO bring it up, it's because his behavior is antithetical to Christs. Christ would have tried to find a way without war. Bush embraces it. IMO, Bush isn't Christian enough.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Crimson

Originally posted by: conjur
Since it's obviously oblivious to you, the world has become more socially liberal as time has marched on. The Catholic Church prefers to be Left Behind.

Yeah thats why the left keeps winning elections.. oh wait.. I might agree with you that the world has been moving left, however, I think recently, especially in the United States, its moving back to the right.. Many think we went too far left.

Again, the job of the church is not to validate your liberal views..

The job of the church? What job is that? To continue the lie of a divine Christ? To continue the lie of an "infallable" Pope? To perpetuate ignorance of birth control? To foster the sexual molestation of young boys?

At this point you lose me. Lie of a divine Christ? All of Christianity is based on this. I know a whole lot of Christians I trust and respect more than just about anyone here, including you.

You may agree with it or not, but you have no evidence for your claim.

There are reams of evidence. The concept of a Divine Christ wasn't really decided until the Council of Nicea. Nowhere in the Bible does Jesus claim to be divine. There's also evidence to suggest he survived the crucifixion and lived a good long while afterward and eventually traveled to the Kashmir region. Check out "Meher Baba".

Also, in the New Testament, when it mentions "for those who have ears to hear" that refers to hidden meanings being contained in what Jesus was saying. The writings were written such they would not be found by the Romans to lead to a group of Jesus's followers and, therefore, subject them to persecution.

I really recommend a couple of books:

The Illustrated Bloodline of the Holy Grail: The Hidden Lineage of Jesus Revealed - Laurence Gardner, Foreword by Prince Michael of Albany
From Jesus to Christianity: How Four Generations of Visionaries and Storytellers Created the New Testament and Christian Faith - L. Michael White (whose work was the subject of the PBS documentary, From Jesus to Christ

I have come to the conclusion that many of the people here hate Bush and others not because of what they do, but because they hate Christians of all stripe.

I see the same hate as they say they see in those who were frothing at the mouth to bomb Iraq.

Neither side seems better than the other, at least not here. The primary reason for posting here is (and pretty much always was) is to demonstrate you can out hate the other side.

Occasionally there is an informative post or a thoughtful comment (enough to make me come back here now and again), but the rest of you live in a moral and intellectual cesspit. No wonder people in the other forums make fun of posters here.

Bah, humanity sucks in general and this thread just proves the rule.

I despise the Propagandist for what he represents and for what he does and doesn't do. His faith is only a part of that. Were he to engage in actual debate in the White House and consider all options, were he to hold his staff, Cabinet, and himself accountable for their actions, then there would be much less disapproval of him. But, he reaps what he sows and right now he's sowing a boatload of bullsh*t.

Not all Christians are bad. It's people like the Propagandist and others like Ashcroft, DeLay, DeMint, Coburn, Frist, etc. that give Christianity a bad name. Or, do you honestly think they are following the teachings of Jesus? If you do, damn, Winston, you need to do some serious research into what Jesus taught.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Crimson

Originally posted by: conjur
Since it's obviously oblivious to you, the world has become more socially liberal as time has marched on. The Catholic Church prefers to be Left Behind.

Yeah thats why the left keeps winning elections.. oh wait.. I might agree with you that the world has been moving left, however, I think recently, especially in the United States, its moving back to the right.. Many think we went too far left.

Again, the job of the church is not to validate your liberal views..

The job of the church? What job is that? To continue the lie of a divine Christ? To continue the lie of an "infallable" Pope? To perpetuate ignorance of birth control? To foster the sexual molestation of young boys?

At this point you lose me. Lie of a divine Christ? All of Christianity is based on this. I know a whole lot of Christians I trust and respect more than just about anyone here, including you.

You may agree with it or not, but you have no evidence for your claim.

There are reams of evidence. The concept of a Divine Christ wasn't really decided until the Council of Nicea. Nowhere in the Bible does Jesus claim to be divine. There's also evidence to suggest he survived the crucifixion and lived a good long while afterward and eventually traveled to the Kashmir region. Check out "Meher Baba".

Also, in the New Testament, when it mentions "for those who have ears to hear" that refers to hidden meanings being contained in what Jesus was saying. The writings were written such they would not be found by the Romans to lead to a group of Jesus's followers and, therefore, subject them to persecution.

I really recommend a couple of books:

The Illustrated Bloodline of the Holy Grail: The Hidden Lineage of Jesus Revealed - Laurence Gardner, Foreword by Prince Michael of Albany
From Jesus to Christianity: How Four Generations of Visionaries and Storytellers Created the New Testament and Christian Faith - L. Michael White (whose work was the subject of the PBS documentary, From Jesus to Christ

I have come to the conclusion that many of the people here hate Bush and others not because of what they do, but because they hate Christians of all stripe.

I see the same hate as they say they see in those who were frothing at the mouth to bomb Iraq.

Neither side seems better than the other, at least not here. The primary reason for posting here is (and pretty much always was) is to demonstrate you can out hate the other side.

Occasionally there is an informative post or a thoughtful comment (enough to make me come back here now and again), but the rest of you live in a moral and intellectual cesspit. No wonder people in the other forums make fun of posters here.

Bah, humanity sucks in general and this thread just proves the rule.

I despise the Propagandist for what he represents and for what he does and doesn't do. His faith is only a part of that. Were he to engage in actual debate in the White House and consider all options, were he to hold his staff, Cabinet, and himself accountable for their actions, then there would be much less disapproval of him. But, he reaps what he sows and right now he's sowing a boatload of bullsh*t.

Not all Christians are bad. It's people like the Propagandist and others like Ashcroft, DeLay, DeMint, Coburn, Frist, etc. that give Christianity a bad name. Or, do you honestly think they are following the teachings of Jesus? If you do, damn, Winston, you need to do some serious research into what Jesus taught.

If you have been following my posts I have said (in the above as well) that they DO NOT follow the teachings. What I have seen in this forum is that Christians are using Bush. Nonsense. Some may be TRYING to, but the fact is it's the reverse. Bush and Co. uses the stupid ones as a political fodder, just like some Dem's in high welfare areas do for a guaranteed power base. In return, he gives them nothing. Abortion gone? Nope. Saved Schiavo? Nope. Gay Marriage Amendment? Nope. Nothing.

However here I see Christianity painted with a very broad brush, and there are a great many Christians who disapprove of what is being done in Christ's name. Some of those are friends and family members. I have seen them slandered here, and called idiots because they believe in Christ as Deity. That is their right, and I respect them, not deride them for their faith. Bush and his are despicable, but because they are liars and only concerned about their power and their wealth and couldn't give a rat's ass about anyone. I dislike their followers because they are usually either about their wallet or their nationalism. They have their POV's and will excoriate the opposition and flat out lie regarding them. That is why I have tended to side with the liberals more than the conservatives, or at least the conservatives as they have become. Many of those here are athiest or agnostic and have no problem with Bush decieving us all for the "greater good". Hardly Christian, or anything else.

But what have we here in this thread? A lot of what I object to. Nazi pope? Let the Genocide begin? People fostering the lie of Christ?

No, it is not the difference of opinions I object to, but the rhetoric and tactics. Maybe you think the Catholics are liars, and certainly there SHOULD be people held accountable for molestations. I do have problems you see, however not because of beliefs, but actions. Just like I do with Bush.

 

[conjur]

ABC News has taken down this article but archive.org still has it:

Priestly Sin, Cover-Up
Powerful Cardinal in Vatican Accused of Sexual Abuse Cover-Up
http://web.archive.org/web/200206071419...yNews/2020_Vatican_coverup_020426.html

The alleged victims say the Vatican knew of the allegations against Father Marcial Maciel and chose not to pursue them.
In fact, the pope has continued to praise 82-year-old Maciel, a Mexico native, as an effective leader of Catholic youth, despite detailed allegations sent to the Vatican four years ago saying the man was also a long-time pedophile.

Maciel denies the charges and said the men made them up only after leaving the Legion of Christ.

Maciel is the founder of the little-known but well-connected and well-financed Legion of Christ which has raised millions of dollars for the Church. Operating in the United States and 19 other countries, the Legion of Christ recruits boys as young as 10 years old to leave their families and follow a rigorous course of study to become priests.

"I think Father Maciel is one of the most powerful men in the Catholic Church today and also arguably the most mysterious," said Jason Berry, author of Lead Us Not Into Temptation: Catholic Priests and the Sexual Abuse of Children.

[...]

Vaca is not alone. He is one of eight former students, now all in their 60s, who have signed sworn affidavits submitted to the Vatican that they were abused by Maciel.

When they were members of the Legion, the accusers were devout followers of Maciel. But for the last eight years, they have been trying to get the Vatican to listen or even acknowledge their detailed allegations of sexual abuse at the hands of Father Maciel. They say they have not heard a response from the Vatican.

In 1997, they went public, telling their story to The Hartford Courant, a newspaper in Connecticut.

Courant reporters Jerry Renner and Jason Berry, who wrote the story, repeated the allegations to the Vatican, yet received no response from the Vatican. However, later that year, the pope took a step that surprised them.

Maciel was appointed to represent the pope at a meeting of Latin American bishops, which Renner and Berry took as a clear signal the Vatican had ignored the allegations.

[...]

Then, four years ago, some of the men tried a last ditch effort, taking the unusual step of filing a lawsuit in the Vatican's secretive court, seeking Maciel's excommunication.

Once again they laid out their evidence, but it was another futile effort ? an effort the men say was blocked by one of the most powerful cardinals in the Vatican.

The accusers say Vatican-based Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, who heads the Vatican office to safeguard the faith and the morals of the church, quietly made the lawsuit go away and shelved it. There was no investigation and the accusers weren't asked a single question or asked for a statement.

He was appointed by the pope to investigate the entire sex abuse scandal in the church in recent days. But when approached by ABCNEWS in Rome last week with questions of allegations against Maciel, Ratzinger became visibly upset and actually slapped this reporter's hand.

"Come to me when the moment is given," Ratzinger told ABCNEWS, "not yet."

"Cardinal Ratzinger is sheltering Maciel, protecting him," said Berry, who expressed concerns that no response was being given to the allegations against the man charged with sex abuse. "These men knelt and kissed the ring of Cardinal Ratzinger when they filed the case in Rome. And a year-and-a-half later, he takes those accusations and aborts them, just stuffs them."

Bad! Bad reporter!

 

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: illustri

Originally posted by: CaptainGoodnight
That doesn't make him a nazi. many people had to join againist their will.

theres a difference between being forced to join the wehrmacht (sp?) and being hitler youth

towards the end of the war, being in the hitler youth was required.

 

[arsbanned]

Originally posted by: conjur
ABC News has taken down this article but archive.org still has it:

Priestly Sin, Cover-Up
Powerful Cardinal in Vatican Accused of Sexual Abuse Cover-Up
http://web.archive.org/web/200206071419...yNews/2020_Vatican_coverup_020426.html

The alleged victims say the Vatican knew of the allegations against Father Marcial Maciel and chose not to pursue them.
In fact, the pope has continued to praise 82-year-old Maciel, a Mexico native, as an effective leader of Catholic youth, despite detailed allegations sent to the Vatican four years ago saying the man was also a long-time pedophile.

Maciel denies the charges and said the men made them up only after leaving the Legion of Christ.

Maciel is the founder of the little-known but well-connected and well-financed Legion of Christ which has raised millions of dollars for the Church. Operating in the United States and 19 other countries, the Legion of Christ recruits boys as young as 10 years old to leave their families and follow a rigorous course of study to become priests.

"I think Father Maciel is one of the most powerful men in the Catholic Church today and also arguably the most mysterious," said Jason Berry, author of Lead Us Not Into Temptation: Catholic Priests and the Sexual Abuse of Children.

[...]

Vaca is not alone. He is one of eight former students, now all in their 60s, who have signed sworn affidavits submitted to the Vatican that they were abused by Maciel.

When they were members of the Legion, the accusers were devout followers of Maciel. But for the last eight years, they have been trying to get the Vatican to listen or even acknowledge their detailed allegations of sexual abuse at the hands of Father Maciel. They say they have not heard a response from the Vatican.

In 1997, they went public, telling their story to The Hartford Courant, a newspaper in Connecticut.

Courant reporters Jerry Renner and Jason Berry, who wrote the story, repeated the allegations to the Vatican, yet received no response from the Vatican. However, later that year, the pope took a step that surprised them.

Maciel was appointed to represent the pope at a meeting of Latin American bishops, which Renner and Berry took as a clear signal the Vatican had ignored the allegations.

[...]

Then, four years ago, some of the men tried a last ditch effort, taking the unusual step of filing a lawsuit in the Vatican's secretive court, seeking Maciel's excommunication.

Once again they laid out their evidence, but it was another futile effort ? an effort the men say was blocked by one of the most powerful cardinals in the Vatican.

The accusers say Vatican-based Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, who heads the Vatican office to safeguard the faith and the morals of the church, quietly made the lawsuit go away and shelved it. There was no investigation and the accusers weren't asked a single question or asked for a statement.

He was appointed by the pope to investigate the entire sex abuse scandal in the church in recent days. But when approached by ABCNEWS in Rome last week with questions of allegations against Maciel, Ratzinger became visibly upset and actually slapped this reporter's hand.

"Come to me when the moment is given," Ratzinger told ABCNEWS, "not yet."

"Cardinal Ratzinger is sheltering Maciel, protecting him," said Berry, who expressed concerns that no response was being given to the allegations against the man charged with sex abuse. "These men knelt and kissed the ring of Cardinal Ratzinger when they filed the case in Rome. And a year-and-a-half later, he takes those accusations and aborts them, just stuffs them."

Bad! Bad reporter!

OF course, they're all a bunch of pedophile protectors, or participants. Rat whatever is just another in a long line.

 

[cquark]

Originally posted by: cquark

Originally posted by: Deptacon
duhhh he is a freakin cardinal.... of course he is a decent guy

Cardinals and popes are quite often not decent people. Read any history of the Papacy.

In particular, see E.R. Chamberlin's book Bad Popes, which discusses such figures as Boniface VIII. Boniface's predecessor was Celestine V was a holy hermit who was later sainted, but who was so incompetent at running the Vatican (he never wanted to be pope) that he resigned after a short reign. Boniface, a corrupt aristocrat worried that his opponents would gather around the former Pope, so he imprisoned Celestine, who died less than a year later, but not before offering a prophesy to Boniface: "You have entered like a fox, you will reign like a lion -- and you will die like a dog."

Celestine's prophecy came true, as Boniface had an regal and stormy reign as Pope, putting down many revolts from competing families, and died in despair after locking himself in the Lateran Palace, still plotting revenge aganst his many enemies.

Of course, Bonficace certainly couldn't compare to the Borgia Popes, but that's another story.

You can find the book at http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de...7753-2539808?v=glance&s=books&n=507846 or if you don't have time to read, try googling "pornocracy" to see how bad the Papacy got at one point.

 

[live2game]

WHAT YOU DON"T GET IS THAT HE WAS FORCED. SOMETIMES READ IN CONTEXT WITH THE TIMES. Yes I am flaming but I can't take it anymore.

 

[conjur]

NEW POPE HITS OUT AT HARRY POTTER BOOKS
http://www.contactmusic.com/new/xmlfeed...ts%20out%20at%20harry%20potter%20books

New Pope BENEDICT XVI has blasted JK ROWLING's HARRY POTTER books for "undermining the soul of Christianity".

Nicknamed 'GOD'S ROTTWEILER', Pope Benedict is set to confuse Catholics across the world because his predecessor JOHN PAUL II praised the multi-millionairess for her Christian lifestyle.

Benedict, formerly CARDINAL JOSEPH RATZINGER is grateful to HARRY POTTER - GOOD OR BAD author GABRIELE KUBY for revealing the hidden agendas behind the popular children's books.

:roll:

Oh boy...a freakin' nutcase as Pope. Yeah...like Harry Potter books are leading all of the world's children into a vat of evil.

 

[aidanjm]

Ratzinger ignored charges of sexual abuse levelled at Fr Maciel (a friend of Pope John Paul II) for seven years. Is it possible Ratzinger finally acted on those allegations for the chief reason of improving his chances of becoming pope? Disgusting.



Pope 'ignored sex abuse claim against John Paul's friend'
By Peter Popham in Rome

23 April 2005

Pope Benedict XVI has been accused of ignoring for seven years charges that Fr Marcial Maciel, the founder of the Legionaries of Christ, had sexually abused nine teenagers in his organisation - because Fr Maciel was a close friend of Pope John Paul II.

In 1997 the then Cardinal Ratzinger was prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the Vatican body which has the power to excommunicate priests guilty of sexual abuse, when Bishop John R McCann of New York forwarded him detailed charges of sexual abuse made by Fr Juan Vaca, a priest in Bishop McCann's diocese. The charges were in the form of a 12-page letter to Fr Marcial Maciel Degollado, who founded the Legionaries of Christ, a conservative Catholic evangelical order, in Mexico in 1941.

"Everything you did contradicts the beliefs of the Church and the order," Fr Vaca wrote in his open letter. "How many innumerable times did you wake me in the middle of the night and had me with you, abusing my innocence. Nights of fear, so many nights of absolute fear: so many nights of lost sleep, that on more than one occasion placed my own psychological health in jeopardy."

Fr Vaca was one of nine former members of Legionaries of Christ who charged Fr Maciel with having sexually abused them when they were teenage seminarians in the order in the 1940s, 1950s and 1960s. The accusers included three professors, a teacher, a lawyer and an engineer as well as the priest.

Another priest and former member of the Legionaries, Juan Manuel Fernandez Armenabar, made a deathbed declaration denouncing Fr Maciel's sexual abuse. But despite the gravity of the charges, Cardinal Ratzinger took no action. The Vatican confirmed that it had received Fr Vaca's letter, but nothing more was said.

When Cardinal Ratzinger was asked about the accusations he brushed the questions aside. On one occasion he literally slapped the wrist of an American television reporter, Brian Ross, who had the temerity to raise the issue. On another occasion Cardinal Ratzinger said: "One can't put on trial such a close friend of the Pope's as Marcial Maciel."

Such an indulgent attitude to the alleged homosexual crimes of a senior priest - who had been appointed grand chancellor of Regina Apostolorum, a new, richly endowed pontifical college on the outskirts of Rome - contrasts with Pope Benedict's attitude to the Church's admitted homosexuals. Cardinal Ratzinger was relentless in his condemnation of liberal clerics who offered outreach to Catholic homosexuals or tried to moderate the harshness of the Church's view of a sexual proclivity that Cardinal Ratzinger defined as "an intrinsic moral evil". He banned practising homosexuals from receiving Mass and halted stealthy efforts by gays within the Church to change church teaching.

In December last year, seven years after the charges were filed against Fr Maciel, the Vatican announced that it would investigate them. A month later, Fr Maciel stepped down as leader of the Legionaries of Christ.

This week the spokesman for the eight men still alive said he thought the Church's change of heart was a way for Cardinal Ratzinger to improve his chances of becoming Pope. Jose Barba, a professor of Latin America studies, told Reuters in Mexico: "It would have been very embarrassing for the cardinal to turn up at the conclave with the reputation of someone who had covered up a scandal."

Professor Barba added: "Was Cardinal Ratzinger totally and solely responsible [for the failure to investigate]? I think that to a great extent he was because it was his department."

Fr Maciel denies all the claims. Three years ago he said on his website that he "never engaged in the sort of repulsive behaviour these men accuse me of".

 

[Legend]

Yeah, the Harry Potter books are so evil. Teaching kids, because we know only kids read these books, about the evils of standing up to discrimination and Hitler-like cults.

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: DevilsAdvocate

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: NTB
Great! But who is it?

Nate

I wouldn't be surprised if it's that nazi boy ratzinger

Ok - so you are calling Bush supporters bigots, yet you use an incredibly offensive term to describe someone who is conservative.

You sir, are a bigot - as most liberals are.

Congrats on sterotyping!