Benedict XVI - Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger of Germany becomes the 265th pope of the Roman Catholic Church

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: Zedtom
Let's hope that these forums don't reach a point that you have to be pre-qualified to comment.

I am not Catholic, but if I was I would be doing some soul-searching in coming to grips with the direction of my church. The steadfast refusal of the church to alter the rules to coexist with the modern world is disheartening. The membership is growing worldwide, but the shortage of priests is an indicator that something is terribly wrong on the inside.

I think that's pretty dead-on.

 

[imported_redlotus]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
No, I simply asked why they care. As yet, no one has done so.

A'right, I'll try to keep this as neutral as possible. The reason that I care (and possibly the reason that others care) is because relatives (my wife, for instance), friends, co-workers, neighbors, etc. ARE Catholic. What they believe in (as taught to them by the church) can and, in my case, will affect our daily lives. Simple as that. Is that reason enough?

 

[mordantmonkey]

Originally posted by: Crimson

Originally posted by: mordantmonkey
of course the church will not change it's core beliefs. Even the pope cannot change things like salvation of christ, holy trinity, that's obvious.
however, the pope does dictate many other aspects of interpretation and dogma. The pope, with ratzlinger's influence, has been responsible for the silencing of clergy when he did not like their interpretations.

Ok, so if the people who opposed Ratzlinger's interpretations were successful, would you criticize them for silencing Ratzlinger? Or, does it only matter to you when the interpretation you don't LIKE is chosen?

yes of course! i would expect conservative catholics to voice concerns if a liberal pontiff was elected. face it, debate does take place in the catholic church. there are certain tenants that all catholics believe, but there is room for a lot of interpretation and change. After all, how long did it take for them to speak out against slavery?
if i agree with the direction of the catholic church why would i argue against it?

 

[Crimson]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: Crimson

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: Crimson

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: Crimson

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Crimson

Originally posted by: conjur
Nice to see the church move into the 21st century with an aging relic of the anti-Semitic past.


WTG, Vatican!!



:roll:

Didn't take long for your bigoted anti-christian self to come out..

Oh, look. Another bitter apologist.


All that's left is bozack and we've got the hat trick!

Don't catholics have a right to choose their leaders? Are you going to answer the question or just spew your bigotry? Why does it matter to you as a Non-Catholic? Or a NON PRACTICING Catholic?

Well, I've been baptized, communionzed and the whole bit. Although I don't go to church anymore, I'm more Catholic than probably you are. (Don't know if you're Catholic or not as of yet)

Yeah, lets argue who is more Catholic.. :roll: ok, I will ONE UP you then, I was also MARRIED in the Catholic church, which puts me +1 on the Sacraments list I guess.. since YOU seem to be keeping score..

If you don't believe in the teachings of the Catholic church you are NOT Catholic. If you believe in gay marriage, abortion, sex before marriage, etc.. WHY are you Catholic? Why would you join a church which you disagree with?

Yes, I looked up at my mom when she gave birth to me and said... "Please Mommy, have me baptized in the Catholic Church?"

I guess 99.9999999999% of Catholics aren't really Catholics either because not everyone agrees with EVERYTHING the Catholic Church says.

Obviously you can't control being Baptized.. but, like you said, you are a non-practicing Catholic.. which to me, tells me you are NOT Catholic.. Being Catholic is not being baptized, its living your life according to the beliefs of the Church, if you aren't doing that, then you aren't Catholic.. If you THINK you still are, then you have some issues you need to work out.

If people don't agree with the church they belong to, why do they claim to be members of it? I don't agree with Greenpeace, if I was a big pro-hunting person and was a member of Greenpeace, would it make sense to say i am a member because I want to change it for the better? Or would it make more sense for me to say, hey, I don't agree with Greenpeace, I am going to choose not to be a member anymore..

So all the NRA members that don't think terrorists should be able to buy assault rifles at gun shows (which the NRA indirectly supports), should quit the NRA? They still believe in the 2nd and 10th amendments, right? They just don't agree on that particular issue.

I don't agree with everything the Church says, but some things I do. The Church has always been changing. Always. To deny that is being silly. There are some things I'd like to change, but I'm not in any position to effect any change. If I went to church tomorrow, I'll be just the same Catholic as anyone else. I lead a very moral life, VERY moral. I don't smoke or drink. I don't commit adultery. I have and love two beautiful little girls. To not agree with the Church on every issue, doesn't make me an immoral person.

But those who claim to be catholic, and then go out an have an abortion for example, are immoral.. At least in the eyes of the church and god.. The 10 commandments arent SUGGESTIONS.. If you follow 9 of 10 of them, that is still as bad as someone who broke 3 of them.. Disagreeing with the Church's position on abortion I don't think is a sin, but BREAKING that rule is.. Its those who go out and live their lives BREAKING the Churches rules that I have issue with. Discussing them is one thing..

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
I don't agree with everything the Church says, but some things I do. The Church has always been changing. Always. To deny that is being silly. There are some things I'd like to change, but I'm not in any position to effect any change. If I went to church tomorrow, I'll be just the same Catholic as anyone else. I lead a very moral life, VERY moral. I don't smoke or drink. I don't commit adultery. I have and love two beautiful little girls. To not agree with the Church on every issue, doesn't make me an immoral person.

:thumbsup:

There are dogmas that you must believe to call yourself "Catholic". These are all spiritual issues. The Catholic Church gives its members the Catechism as a guidebook as to what the Church thinks is the proper way to live your life. However, the Church requires that you do as your well-informed conscience dictates. If you think your well-informed conscience tells you opposite of what the Church says, then you're obligated to follow your conscience. Of course, by assuming that you're more well-informed than the Church, you're taking a grave responsibility on yourself and are more responsible than ever for your actions.

 

[Crimson]

Originally posted by: redlotus

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
No, I simply asked why they care. As yet, no one has done so.

A'right, I'll try to keep this as neutral as possible. The reason that I care (and possibly the reason that others care) is because relatives (my wife, for instance), friends, co-workers, neighbors, etc. ARE Catholic. What they believe in (as taught to them by the church) can and, in my case, will affect our daily lives. Simple as that. Is that reason enough?

So you, and your friends and family are unable to make free choices? If they don't agree with the Church's teachings they can choose not to be a member. What do you think the new Pope is going to do? Come out against Abortion? John Paul II already did that.. come out against Gay Marriage? John Paul II already did that.. What do you think is going to change?

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Benedict XVI

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1
Benedict XVI

DIAF.

 

[Crimson]

Honestly I think its driving the liberals crazy that they were unable to use the U.S. Courts to overturn the Cardinals decision, or use the U.S. Congress to block their appointment, or to use non-profit organizations to committ voter registration fraud to influence the vote like they do here.

Liberals are pissed off a conservative organization elected a conservative to be their leader.. SHOCKING! This is a classic example of liberals supporting CHOICE only when it applies to liberals being chosen or liberal ideas being chosen.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: NTB
Great! But who is it?

Nate

I wouldn't be surprised if it's that nazi boy ratzinger

Wow, did i call it or what?

 

[Crimson]

DIEBOLD
HALIBURTON
BLOOD FOR OIL
IMMORAL WAR
BUSH LIED

Thought I would just get those out there first, I'm sure they will be brought up shortly.. all conservative threads end up going to one of those conclusions.. LOL

 

[imported_redlotus]

Originally posted by: Crimson

Originally posted by: redlotus

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
No, I simply asked why they care. As yet, no one has done so.

A'right, I'll try to keep this as neutral as possible. The reason that I care (and possibly the reason that others care) is because relatives (my wife, for instance), friends, co-workers, neighbors, etc. ARE Catholic. What they believe in (as taught to them by the church) can and, in my case, will affect our daily lives. Simple as that. Is that reason enough?

So you, and your friends and family are unable to make free choices? If they don't agree with the Church's teachings they can choose not to be a member. What do you think the new Pope is going to do? Come out against Abortion? John Paul II already did that.. come out against Gay Marriage? John Paul II already did that.. What do you think is going to change?

Actually, you are coming at this from the wrong side of things. I was actually hoping for a pope that would be a heck of a lot more moderate. Maybe if one could get the gonads to reverse the whole oral sex issue, I could get a blow job once in a while. (btw, I'm just kidding about that, but it does give you an idea of the kinds of things I'm talking about)

 

[raildogg]

Wow you people are so desperate to bash Christianity and especially Catholocism that you don't realize that Ratzinger was opposed to Hitler and anti-Semites. Wow, great job you open and fair minded people.

He didn't have a choice of not joining. So please at least have some facts before you bash him for being a Nazi.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: conjur
Member of Hitler Youth and an anti-aircraft gunner for the German army. Hmm...quite the sales pitch to the youth of the world to come join and follow the teachings of the Catholic Church, eh? Eric Rudolph couldn't be happier.

<- wishes Conjur could have been a German citizen during the Nazi era so that he could have been drafted against his will into the Hitler Youth and German army and then accused of being a Nazi for the rest of his days.


That said, I don't approve of this choice, but only because I feel that there were better choices out there than an old conservative "caretaker" pope. I think it's fair to say that Benedict XVI won't be another John Paul II.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: raildogg
Wow you people are so desperate to bash Christianity and especially Catholocism that you don't realize that Ratzinger was opposed to Hitler and anti-Semites. Wow, great job you open and fair minded people.

He was a 'nazi youth' lol. Talk about a man with convictions!

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: raildogg
Wow you people are so desperate to bash Christianity and especially Catholocism that you don't realize that Ratzinger was opposed to Hitler and anti-Semites. Wow, great job you open and fair minded people.

LOL

 

[dmcowen674]

Awwwww, how touching seeing all the Sheeple defend the Religious Mob Ruler.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Originally posted by: Crimson
DIEBOLD company that is notoriously neo-con supportive
HALIBURTON company ran by a neo-con, still under investigation
BLOOD FOR OIL It wasn't/isn't?
IMMORAL WAR absolute truth
BUSH LIED more times than most people can remember

Just because I am a liberal doesn't make my educated, researched opinion any less viable than yours. I think it was an awful choice for pope.

 

[Siwy]

Originally posted by: conjur
Member of Hitler Youth and an anti-aircraft gunner for the German army. Hmm...quite the sales pitch to the youth of the world to come join and follow the teachings of the Catholic Church, eh? Eric Rudolph couldn't be happier.

I guess you missed the part about him not firing a single shot and deserting from the army for which he was sent to a war camp.

Doesn?t seem like a Jew hating Nazi to me, like you try to imply.

 

[Crimson]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Awwwww, how touching seeing all the Sheeple defend the Religious Mob Ruler.

Awwwww, how touching seeing all the Sheeple critical of the Religious leader because he doesn't support their liberal views. So 'Open-minded' thou art.

 

[mordantmonkey]

Originally posted by: Crimson
Honestly I think its driving the liberals crazy that they were unable to use the U.S. Courts to overturn the Cardinals decision, or use the U.S. Congress to block their appointment, or to use non-profit organizations to committ voter registration fraud to influence the vote like they do here.

Liberals are pissed off a conservative organization elected a conservative to be their leader.. SHOCKING! This is a classic example of liberals supporting CHOICE only when it applies to liberals being chosen or liberal ideas being chosen.

Where is the hand-jerking-an-imaginary-penis emoticon when you need it?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Awwwww, how touching seeing all the Sheeple defend the Religious Mob Ruler.

Dave, you are quite frankly the biggest and least intelligent "Sheeple" on this board.

That term comes from George Orwell's "Animal Farm", where the unintelligent masses were represented as sheep who, just when the more intelligent animals were about ready to make some breakthrough of understanding about the tyranny of the pigs, would spout some bit of distracting nonsense. Just like you do.

 

[Zedtom]

Wow! The damage control and spin twisters are already busy coming to his defense.

 

[conjur]

More articles on the life of the new Pope:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A22028-2005Apr2.html

He wrote a letter of advice to U.S. bishops on denying communion to politicians who support abortion rights, which some observers viewed as a slam at Democratic presidential candidate John F. Kerry. He publicly cautioned Europe against admitting Turkey to the European Union and wrote a letter to bishops around the world justifying that stand on the grounds that the continent is essentially Christian in nature. In another letter to bishops worldwide, he decried a sort of feminism that makes women "adversaries" of men.

[...]

He is a lightning rod for church liberals who see the hierarchy as reactionary. Ratzinger was active in stamping out liberation theology, with its emphasis on grass-roots activism to fight poverty and its association with Marxist movements.

He once called homosexuality a tendency toward "intrinsic moral evil" and dismissed the uproar over priestly pedophilia in the United States as a "planned campaign" against the church.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/documentaries/profile/

The new Pope has been chosen from what could be termed the traditional side of the Catholic Church. To some, he heralds intellectual salvation during a time of confusion and compromise. To others, his record as Pope John Paul II's prefect of doctrine showed the then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger to be an intimidating "Enforcer", punishing liberal thinkers, and keeping the Church in the Middle Ages.

Against dissent

While many theologians strive for a Catholic Church that is more open and in touch with the world around it, the new Pope's mission has in the past seemed to entailing stamping out dissent, and curbing the "wild excesses" of this more tolerant era.

As prefect of doctrine, Pope Benedict wielded the tools of his office with steely efficiency. By influencing diocese budgets, bishops' transfers and even excommunications, what an opponent called "symbolic violence", the then Cardinal clamped down on the more radical contingent of the Church.

He has even claimed the prime position of the Church of Rome over other Christian Churches. Although he has apologised for this, he has never been so contrite about excluding liberation theologians, more progressive priests or those in favour of the ordination of women.

Charming

Personally charming, quick-witted and fluent in four languages, the new Pope is a convincing orator. Jesuit Father Thomas Reese calls him "a delightful dialogue partner", but adds that most of the Pope's fellow clergy would be too worried about the prospect of excommunication to enjoy talking to him.

When Pope Benedict served the Second Vatican Council for three years from 1962, he supported reform. His own background, however, perhaps sheds light on his need for a Church that stands firm against the currents of change and political shifts.

Schooled in the Nazis' power of rhetoric during his childhood in Bavaria, the Pope later deserted the German Army during World War II, only to be sent to a POW camp when the Allies reached his hometown.

Later, as an eminent theologian lecturing at Germany's premier faculties, he was horrified by the Marxist ideologies that punctuated campus small talk in the late 1960s.

"Papal fundamentalism"

Pope Benedict has consistently pursued doctrine that can endure, independent of cultural or social trends. He argues that only with a completely separate values system can the Church offer individual freedom. His critics call this "papal fundamentalism", but the Pope is unflappable in his personal theology.

He has claimed that "everything falls apart without truth". It is now his role to unite the Catholic Church under his strong, principled vision.

http://ncronline.org/NCR_Online/archives/091500/091500a.htm

[Ratzinger wrote]
-Revelation in Christ is complete and cannot be complemented by other religions, even though the divine mystery in itself remains ?inexhaustible?;

-Sacred writings of other religions may have elements that ?maintain a life-relationship with God,? but only the Old and New Testaments are ?inspired texts?;

-Whatever the Holy Spirit brings about in other religions ?serves as a preparation for the gospel and can only be understood in reference to Christ?;

-Non-Catholic Christian churches have ?defects,? and Protestant communities are not ?churches? at all in the proper sense. To the extent non-Catholic communities
lead people to salvation, it is derived ?from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Catholic church?;

-Prayers and rituals of other religions do not have a ?divine origin,? and some ?superstitions or other errors? represent ?an obstacle to salvation?;

-Catholics must be committed to ?announcing the necessity of conversion to Jesus Christ.?

This guy is straight from the Middle Ages but right up the Propagandist's alley.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Crimson

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Awwwww, how touching seeing all the Sheeple defend the Religious Mob Ruler.

Awwwww, how touching seeing all the Sheeple critical of the Religious leader because he doesn't support their liberal views. So 'Open-minded' thou art.

Since it's obviously oblivious to you, the world has become more socially liberal as time has marched on. The Catholic Church prefers to be Left Behind.