Bernie Sanders announces 2020 campaign (and apparently raises a massive amount of $$$ within hours)

[SlowSpyder]

Given up what, exactly?

Why do you anti-2A'ers ignore that gun rights have already been whittled away and many gun control laws have been passed through the years? The anti-2A left has whittled away our rights.

 

[Texashiker]

Why do you anti-2A'ers ignore that gun rights have already been whittled away and many gun control laws have been passed through the years? The anti-2A left has whittled away our rights.

The haters of freedom and liberty do not see what has already been taken away / given up. All they see is the talking box telling them we need more gun control. This time will be different, as it will be "reasonable" gun control.

If the current proposed gun control laws (assault weapons ban, background checks for all sales, magazines restrcitions) are reasonable, then previous gun control laws were unreasonable and should be repealed.

In all honesty, the leftist gun control proponent does not realize what they ask. What happens after the next set of gun control laws? Will that be enough? Of course not, because the talking box tells them we need more gun control. No amount of gun laws will ever be enough. Much like England, after the guns they will come for our knives, until all of society expect the government and criminals are disarmed.

The nice thing, democrats want a nice large open soutehern border which will provide over a thousand miles for smugglers to import guns.

 

[SlowSpyder]

The haters of freedom and liberty do not see what has already been taken away / given up. All they see is the talking box telling them we need more gun control. This time will be different, as it will be "reasonable" gun control.

If the current proposed gun control laws (assault weapons ban, background checks for all sales, magazines restrcitions) are reasonable, then previous gun control laws were unreasonable and should be repealed.

In all honesty, the leftist gun control proponent does not realize what they ask. What happens after the next set of gun control laws? Will that be enough? Of course not, because the talking box tells them we need more gun control. No amount of gun laws will ever be enough. Much like England, after the guns they will come for our knives, until all of society expect the government and criminals are disarmed.

The nice thing, democrats want a nice large open soutehern border which will provide over a thousand miles for smugglers to import guns.

Exactly 100% truth. This is why I bring up alcohol and tobacco so often here when they talk about guns. We accept that some individual liberties have the capacity to cause harm to society. And to me, it is a difficult argument to make that guns need to be so much further restricted while they don't care about much bigger killers that have no real upside (unlike guns). I understand they are not 100% apples to apples comparisons, but it does work in regards to looking at it as an individual rights vs. risk to society standpoint. And as you said, they're fine and dandy with a wide open border with criminals crossing it daily, but they get a laser partisan focus on those risks they're told to not like by their handlers, like guns.

 

[Moonbeam]

I respectfully disagree.

Hillary lost because she ran a campaign based on fear and lies. She stuck to a playbook that had won countless elections before hers.

What won Trump the election is how he addressed the issues. He addressed balanced trade, he addressed jobs, he addressed immigration... etc.

One example was Hillary saying when she is elected women will make as much as men. Well, logical thinkers already know the wage gap is a lie. Also, there is a federal law on the books to ensure equal pay. Besides all of that, states have laws to ensure women make the same as men. This "women will make as much as men" played to emotional voters.

Another issue was Hillary saying she was going to shut down the coal mines. What are those people supposed to do for jobs? I voted agsinst hillary in part to save the jobs of coal miners and to save their families.

The vast majority of hillarys campaign was "Trump is bad."

The vast majority of Trumps campaign was addressing the issues.

That is why Trump won and Hillary lost.

Rather than argue as to why I think some of the things you say above are wrong, I think I would prefer to say why I think it might be that I see them differently. It has occurred to me over the years posting here that my viewpoint has drifted. I ask myself how can that be. And I think it has something to do with my personal sense of identity.

As a young man I had to deal with an existential crisis. When I looked at the world I saw tremendous and unbearable suffering which only faith in God could cure, both for me to live with it and for others to stop doing evil to others. So I set out to save the world by proving that God exists. Well I failed and the result that all of my hopes dies and so did I emotionally. I also, at that time, didn't realize that everything I experienced was projecting my inner condition out there on the world. But anyway. I died to everything I held sacred and was fortunate after a long period of what I was sure would be interminable misery I had a strange experience that changed everything.

In a flash I had an understanding that ended suffering. One little realization and everything totally changed at an emotional level, but it answered only one problem, my need for meaning. It didn't mean I knew anything about politics, for example, but it make it possible for me to see how people cling to external ideas as an ego need to keep them from experiencing just the suffering I had been unable in that way to escape.

So, I guess what I am trying to say is that in some inner way I feel flexible, able to change, able to see what I would ordinarily not be inclined to face. I didn't have to fear suffering. It was because of suffering that I had gotten free. The long and the short of it is that I don't need to believe anything to be free. I am sort of belief free. But I find myself here and there believing this or that. I make myself laugh. I am amused by paradox.

Well one of the mad cap notions I sometimes have is that I am not a liberal in the moral sensibility sense. I am a conservative with a wide range of moral concerns about which I have no opinion. I believe in purity. But I don't know what it is. I believe in respect, but I don't know what respect is. I believe in order, but I don't know what proper order is. I believe in the sacred, but I don't know what the sacred is. I am a believer who isn't attached to belief. For every idea there is an opposing idea and these opposites resolve at a higher level of understanding, just as for me to suffer was not to suffer. There is an alchemical transmogrification or mystical experience that changes everything.

I believe in the same moral values you value but not in the way you do so I guess I would say you are right in the generalities and wrong in the particulars of the case. We differ in out need to believe, I think. The position and momentum of a particle become an issue when you ask about either. I don't have any questions.

There's an incantation, probably Buddhist I hear A. Ginsburg used to say and that used to drive me crazy:

Form is here emptiness, emptiness form.

 

[Moonbeam]

Democracy should be dead, long live the republic.

"If you don't eat yer meat, you can't have any pudding. How can you have any pudding if you don't eat yer meat?"

 

[Blackjack200]

There's an incantation, probably Buddhist I hear A. Ginsburg used to say and that used to drive me crazy:

Form is here emptiness, emptiness form.

More Buddhism from Ginsburg:

I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness; starving, hysterical, naked, dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn looking for an angry fix,

angelheaded hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly connection to the starry dynamo in the machinery of night,

who poverty and tatters and hollow-eyed and high sat up smoking in the supernatural darkness of cold-water flats floating across the tops of cities contemplating jazz,

who bared their brains to Heaven under the El and saw Mohammedan angels staggering on tenement roofs illuminated,

who passed through universities with radiant cool eyes hallucinating Arkansas and Blake-light tragedy among the scholars of war,

who were expelled from the academies for crazy & publishing obscene odes on the windows of the skull,

who cowered in unshaven rooms in underwear, burning their money in wastebaskets and listening to the Terror through the wall,

who got busted in their pubic beards returning through Laredo with a belt of marijuana for New York,

who ate fire in paint hotels or drank turpentine in Paradise Alley, death, or purgatoried their torsos night after night

with dreams, with drugs, with waking nightmares, alcohol and cock and endless balls,

incomparable blind streets of shuddering cloud and lightning in the mind leaping toward poles of Canada & Paterson, illuminating all the motionless world of Time between,

Peyote solidities of halls, backyard green tree cemetery dawns, wine drunkenness over the rooftops, storefront boroughs of teahead joyride neon blinking traffic light, sun and moon and tree vibrations in the roaring winter dusks of Brooklyn, ashcan rantings and kind king light of mind,

who chained themselves to subways for the endless ride from Battery to holy Bronx on benzedrine until the noise of wheels and children brought them down shuddering
mouth-wracked and battered bleak of brain all drained of brilliance in the drear light of Zoo,

who sank all night in submarine light of Bickford’s floated out and sat through the stale beer afternoon in desolate Fugazzi’s, listening to the crack of doom on the hydrogen jukebox,

who talked continuously seventy hours from park to pad to bar to Bellevue to museum to the Brooklyn Bridge,

a lost battalion of platonic conversationalists jumping down the stoops off fire escapes off windowsills off Empire State out of the moon,

yacketayakking screaming vomiting whispering facts and memories and anecdotes and eyeball kicks and shocks of hospitals and jails and wars,

whole intellects disgorged in total recall for seven days and nights with brilliant eyes, meat for the Synagogue cast on the pavement,

who vanished into nowhere Zen New Jersey leaving a trail of ambiguous picture postcards of Atlantic City Hall,

suffering Eastern sweats and Tangerian bone-grindings and migraines of China under junk-withdrawal in Newark’s bleak furnished room,

who wandered around and around at midnight in the railroad yard wondering where to go, and went, leaving no broken hearts,

who lit cigarettes in boxcars boxcars boxcars racketing through snow toward lonesome farms in grandfather night,

who studied Plotinus Poe St. John of the Cross telepathy and bop kabbalah because the cosmos instinctively vibrated at their feet in Kansas,

who loned it through the streets of Idaho seeking visionary indian angels who were visionary indian angels,

who thought they were only mad when Baltimore gleamed in supernatural ecstasy,
who jumped in limousines with the Chinaman of Oklahoma on the impulse of winter midnight streetlight smalltown rain,

who lounged hungry and lonesome through Houston seeking jazz or sex or soup, and followed the brilliant Spaniard to converse about America and Eternity, a hopeless task, and so took ship to Africa,

who disappeared into the volcanoes of Mexico leaving behind nothing but the shadow of dungarees and the lava and ash of poetry scattered in fireplace Chicago,

who reappeared on the West Coast investigating the FBI in beards and shorts with big pacifist eyes sexy in their dark skin passing out incomprehensible leaflets,

who burned cigarette holes in their arms protesting the narcotic tobacco haze of Capitalism,

who distributed Supercommunist pamphlets in Union Square weeping and undressing while the sirens of Los Alamos wailed them down, and wailed down Wall, and the Staten Island ferry also wailed,

who broke down crying in white gymnasiums naked and trembling before the machinery of other skeletons,

who bit detectives in the neck and shrieked with delight in policecars for committing no crime but their own wild cooking pederasty and intoxication,

who howled on their knees in the subway and were dragged off the roof waving genitals and manuscripts,

who let themselves be fucked in the ass by saintly motorcyclists, and screamed with joy,

who blew and were blown by those human seraphim, the sailors, caresses of Atlantic and Caribbean love,

who balled in the morning in the evenings in rosegardens and the grass of public parks and cemeteries scattering their semen freely to whomever come who may,

who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob behind a partition in a Turkish Bath when the blond & naked angel came to pierce them with a sword,

who lost their loveboys to the three old shrews of fate the one eyed shrew of the heterosexual dollar the one eyed shrew that winks out of the womb and the one eyed shrew that does nothing but sit on her ass and snip the intellectual golden threads of the craftsman’s loom,

who copulated ecstatic and insatiate with a bottle of beer a sweetheart a package of cigarettes a candle and fell off the bed, and continued along the floor and down the hall and ended fainting on the wall with a vision of ultimate wise and beautiful woman and come eluding the last gyzym of consciousness,

who sweetened the snatches of a million girls trembling in the sunset, and were red eyed in the morning but prepared to sweeten the snatch of the sunrise, flashing buttocks under barns and naked in the lake,

who went out whoring through Colorado in myriad stolen night-cars, N.C., secret hero of these poems, cocksman and Adonis of Denver—joy to the memory of his innumerable lays of girls in empty lots & diner backyards, moviehouses’ rickety rows, on mountaintops in caves or with gaunt waitresses in familiar roadside lonely petticoat upliftings & especially secret gas-station solipsisms of johns, & hometown alleys too,

who faded out in vast sordid movies, were shifted in dreams, woke on a sudden Manhattan, and picked themselves up out of basements hung-over with heartless Tokay and horrors of Third Avenue iron dreams & stumbled to unemployment offices,

who walked all night with their shoes full of blood on the snowbank docks waiting for a door in the East River to open to a room full of steam-heat and opium,

who created great suicidal dramas on the apartment cliff-banks of the Hudson under the wartime blue floodlight of the moon & their heads shall be crowned with laurel in oblivion,

who ate the lamb stew of the imagination or digested the crab at the muddy bottom of the rivers of Bowery,
who wept at the romance of the streets with their pushcarts full of onions and bad music,

who sat in boxes breathing in the darkness under the bridge, and rose up to build harpsichords in their lofts,

who coughed on the sixth floor of Harlem crowned with flame under the tubercular sky surrounded by orange crates of theology,

who scribbled all night rocking and rolling over lofty incantations which in the yellow morning were stanzas of gibberish,

who cooked rotten animals lung heart feet tail borsht & tortillas dreaming of the pure vegetable kingdom,

who plunged themselves under meat trucks looking for an egg,

who threw their watches off the roof to cast their ballot for Eternity outside of Time, & alarm clocks fell on their heads every day for the next decade,

who cut their wrists three times successively unsuccessfully, gave up and were forced to open antique stores where they thought they were growing old and cried,

who were burned alive in their innocent flannel suits on Madison Avenue amid blasts of leaden verse & the tanked-up clatter of the iron regiments of fashion & the nitroglycerine shrieks of the fairies of advertising & the mustard gas of sinister intelligent editors, or were run down by the drunken taxicabs of Absolute Reality,

who jumped off the Brooklyn Bridge and walked away unknown and forgotten into the ghostly daze of Chinatown soup alleyways & firetrucks, not even one free beer,

who sang out of their windows in despair, fell out of the subway window, jumped in the filthy Passaic, leaped on negroes, cried all over the street, danced on broken wineglasses barefoot smashed phonograph records of nostalgic European 1930s German jazz finished the whiskey and threw up groaning into the bloody toilet, moans in their ears and the blast of colossal steamwhistles,

who barreled down the highways of the past journeying to each other’s hotrod-Golgotha jail-solitude watch or Birmingham jazz incarnation,

who drove crosscountry seventytwo hours to find out if I had a vision or you had a vision or he had a vision to find out Eternity,

who journeyed to Denver, who died in Denver, who came back to Denver & waited in vain, who watched over Denver & brooded & loned in Denver and finally went away to find out the Time, & now Denver is lonesome for her heroes,

who fell on their knees in hopeless cathedrals praying for each other’s salvation and light and breasts, until the soul illuminated its hair for a second,

who crashed through their minds in jail waiting for impossible criminals with golden heads and the charm of reality in their hearts who sang sweet blues to Alcatraz,

who retired to Mexico to cultivate a habit, or Rocky Mount to tender Buddha or Tangiers to boys or Southern Pacific to the black locomotive or Harvard to Narcissus to Woodlawn to the daisychain or grave,

who demanded sanity trials accusing the radio of hypnotism & were left with their insanity & their hands & a hung jury,

who threw potato salad at CCNY lecturers on Dadaism and subsequently presented themselves on the granite steps of the madhouse with shaven heads and harlequin speech of suicide, demanding instantaneous lobotomy,
and who were given instead the concrete void of insulin Metrazol electricity hydrotherapy psychotherapy occupational therapy pingpong & amnesia,

who in humorless protest overturned only one symbolic pingpong table, resting briefly in catatonia,

returning years later truly bald except for a wig of blood, and tears and fingers, to the visible madman doom of the wards of the madtowns of the East,

Pilgrim State’s Rockland’s and Greystone’s foetid halls, bickering with the echoes of the soul, rocking and rolling in the midnight solitude-bench dolmen-realms of love, dream of life a nightmare, bodies turned to stone as heavy as the moon,

with mother finally ******, and the last fantastic book flung out of the tenement window, and the last door closed at 4 A.M. and the last telephone slammed at the wall in reply and the last furnished room emptied down to the last piece of mental furniture, a yellow paper rose twisted on a wire hanger in the closet, and even that imaginary, nothing but a hopeful little bit of hallucination—
ah, Carl, while you are not safe I am not safe, and now you’re really in the total animal soup of time—
and who therefore ran through the icy streets obsessed with a sudden flash of the alchemy of the use of the ellipsis catalogue a variable measure and the vibrating plane,

who dreamt and made incarnate gaps in Time & Space through images juxtaposed, and trapped the archangel of the soul between 2 visual images and joined the elemental verbs and set the noun and dash of consciousness together jumping with sensation of Pater Omnipotens Aeterna Deus

to recreate the syntax and measure of poor human prose and stand before you speechless and intelligent and shaking with shame, rejected yet confessing out the soul to conform to the rhythm of thought in his naked and endless head,

the madman bum and angel beat in Time, unknown, yet putting down here what might be left to say in time come after death,

and rose reincarnate in the ghostly clothes of jazz in the goldhorn shadow of the band and blew the suffering of America’s naked mind for love into an eli eli lamma lamma sabacthani saxophone cry that shivered the cities down to the last radio

with the absolute heart of the poem of life butchered out of their own bodies good to eat a thousand years.
___________________________________________

A million fucks to whoever abridges this masterpiece.

 

[vi edit]

"If you don't eat yer meat, you can't have any pudding. How can you have any pudding if you don't eat yer meat?"

Some people just want cake.

 

[Moonbeam]

Exactly 100% truth. This is why I bring up alcohol and tobacco so often here when they talk about guns. We accept that some individual liberties have the capacity to cause harm to society. And to me, it is a difficult argument to make that guns need to be so much further restricted while they don't care about much bigger killers that have no real upside (unlike guns). I understand they are not 100% apples to apples comparisons, but it does work in regards to looking at it as an individual rights vs. risk to society standpoint. And as you said, they're fine and dandy with a wide open border with criminals crossing it daily, but they get a laser partisan focus on those risks they're told to not like by their handlers, like guns.

You have to understand that because you have a conservative brain that isn't free of attachment to ideas you will always be a slave to black and white thinking, you will always live in terror that somebody will rob you of the right of self defense. You are simply mot mentally equipped to deal with the notion of responsibility that come with rights, that whenever government becomes destructive of the rights on the people to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness they will change government to insure they get that. When drunk kids run people down in car's limitations are put on the age of driving and the blood limit of alcohol a driver can have in their body. Why, because in practice too many drunk people and too many drunk or mentally immature kids get behind the wheel of cars and drive them psychologically impaired.

When there are too many people dying from gun violence due to the violence a competitive and indifferent society creates, they don't fix the issue of competition and indifference, that costs money. They will go after the guns. Humanity is asleep, unaware that all its problems are the result of self hate, a self hate that infects everybody so nobody will address it. Guns and every other freedom are the sacrifice we pay to stay asleep to the real issue. Guns are not a problem when owned by decent people. But fear destroys decency in people. And we have nothing if not growing fear. There is the fear of rights and the fear they will be taken, two sides of the same insanity of self hate.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I'm not feeling the Burn this time around.

Ideally I'd like him to address why he didn't campaign harder for the nominee last cycle and what impact Russian trolls had promoting his shit to detract from Hillary.

 

[SlowSpyder]

You have to understand that because you have a conservative brain that isn't free of attachment to ideas you will always be a slave to black and white thinking, you will always live in terror that somebody will rob you of the right of self defense. You are simply mot mentally equipped to deal with the notion of responsibility that come with rights, that whenever government becomes destructive of the rights on the people to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness they will change government to insure they get that. When drunk kids run people down in car's limitations are put on the age of driving and the blood limit of alcohol a driver can have in their body. Why, because in practice too many drunk people and too many drunk or mentally immature kids get behind the wheel of cars and drive them psychologically impaired.

When there are too many people dying from gun violence due to the violence a competitive and indifferent society creates, they don't fix the issue of competition and indifference, that costs money. They will go after the guns. Humanity is asleep, unaware that all its problems are the result of self hate, a self hate that infects everybody so nobody will address it. Guns and every other freedom are the sacrifice we pay to stay asleep to the real issue. Guns are not a problem when owned by decent people. But fear destroys decency in people. And we have nothing if not growing fear. There is the fear of rights and the fear they will be taken, two sides of the same insanity of self hate.

I have a more liberal brain, actually. I just happen to have become pro-Trump after it became clear how crazy the left has become as of late, how Hillary is bought and sold, and how inaccurately Trump is covered. I almost don't blame leftists for hating him, there is an agenda out there against him by those that pull the strings, and when they do the puppets dance as commanded.

Moonie, I've been pro-Democrat and pro-Republicans over the last 4-5 election cycles, can you say that? Or does it just so happen the party you prefer somehow ALWAYS has the best person for the job? My brain isn't the one with the defect.

 

[Blackjack200]

I'm not feeling the Burn this time around.

Ideally I'd like him to address why he didn't campaign harder for the nominee last cycle and what impact Russian trolls had promoting his shit to detract from Hillary.

Even Maddow said she was impressed with how hard Bernie campaigned for Clinton. The idea that he didn't is nothing but total butthurt manifest as resentment from the 'clueless with her' crowd that can't cope with truth that Sanders would have won the GE.

 

[Texashiker]

Exactly 100% truth. This is why I bring up alcohol and tobacco so often here when they talk about guns. We accept that some individual liberties have the capacity to cause harm to society. And to me, it is a difficult argument to make that guns need to be so much further restricted while they don't care about much bigger killers that have no real upside (unlike guns). I understand they are not 100% apples to apples comparisons, but it does work in regards to looking at it as an individual rights vs. risk to society standpoint. And as you said, they're fine and dandy with a wide open border with criminals crossing it daily, but they get a laser partisan focus on those risks they're told to not like by their handlers, like guns.

Thank you.

Gun control is a wedge issue. It is easy to point a finger at guns and say something like, "those should be banned.", without addressing the underlying cause.

If gun control proponents were able to reduce black-on-black violence, gun crime across the nation would drastically decrease. Rather than addressing gang and drug related issues, it is easier to blame the guns.

I have a theory that Democrats thrive off cause and effect. Then they use effect as a wedge issue rather than addressing the cause.

For example, could we imagine if the rust belt were rebuilt and young men were able to have profitable futures? How much gang violence could be reduced by simply providing young men with a stable financial future. Free trade schools to whoever wanted it.

Another issue is the breakdown of the black family. Thomas Sowell talks about this quit often. Up until the 1960s black families had made great strides in families and income. Then over the course of a decade, two decades of gains had been erased.

Rather than argue as to why I think some of the things you say above are wrong, I think I would prefer to say why I think it might be that I see them differently. It has occurred to me over the years posting here that my viewpoint has drifted. I ask myself how can that be. And I think it has something to do with my personal sense of identity.
<SNIP FOR LENGTH>.

Thank you for the heart felt reply.

When there are too many people dying from gun violence due to the violence a competitive and indifferent society creates, they don't fix the issue of competition and indifference, that costs money. They will go after the guns. Humanity is asleep, unaware that all its problems are the result of self hate, a self hate that infects everybody so nobody will address it. Guns and every other freedom are the sacrifice we pay to stay asleep to the real issue. Guns are not a problem when owned by decent people. But fear destroys decency in people. And we have nothing if not growing fear. There is the fear of rights and the fear they will be taken, two sides of the same insanity of self hate.

Thomas Sowell says the current black on black violence may be a result of the government taking the place of the father. Young men raised in poverty no longer have a strong father figure, as a result, we have violence.

My personal opinion, gun and white collar crime symbolic of the breakdown of our society. Whether it is a gang shooting, or a ponzi scheme, both show a blatant disregard for human compassion.

Something has gone terribly wrong in society. We have been programed to take care of each other. This is evident in human bones spanning hundreds of thousands of years. The strong took care of the sink and the old. Lewis and Clark noted in their journals how indian tribes took care of the sick and old. One woman was very old and blind, yet the tribe took care of her.

Today, we let people die because they can not afford medicine, wall street hordes wealth, and gangs do drive by shootings. This is a far cry from our hunter gatherer ancestors.

It almost seems as if the more wealth we collect, the less we care about each other.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I have a more liberal brain, actually. I just happen to have become pro-Trump after it became clear how crazy the left has become as of late and how inaccurately he is covered. I almost don't blame leftists for hating him, there is an agenda out there against him by those that pull the strings, and when they do the puppets dance as commanded.

Moonie, I've been pro-Democrat and pro-Republicans over the last 4-5 election cycles, can you say that? Or does it just so happen the party you prefer somehow ALWAYS has the best person for the job? My brain isn't the one with the defect.

Come on don't play the I used to be a democrat game again.
You maybe have voted for a local democrat in the late 90s if I remember that thread correctly.
Be like calling myself a former republican voter, I voted for a few Republican Governors.

 

[Moonbeam]

I'm not feeling the Burn this time around.

Ideally I'd like him to address why he didn't campaign harder for the nominee last cycle and what impact Russian trolls had promoting his shit to detract from Hillary.

You admonish Sanders for a supposed weakness your post itself expresses about him, lack of burn. Perhaps one or both of you have a small fuel tank. And yet, here he is, back with his passion.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Even Maddow said she was impressed with how hard Bernie campaigned for Clinton. The idea that he didn't is nothing but total butthurt manifest as resentment from the 'clueless with her' crowd that can't cope with truth that Sanders would have won the GE.

Party over person when it comes to elections, otherwise we end up with Trump.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

You admonish Sanders for a supposed weakness your post itself expresses about him, lack of burn. Perhaps one or both of you have a small fuel tank. And yet, here he is, back with his passion.

Maybe so, I'm just not feeling it this time around but its still early.

 

[Blackjack200]

Party over person when it comes to elections, otherwise we end up with Trump.

So say the folks that did such a great job preventing Trump in 2016.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Come on don't play the I used to be a democrat game again.
You maybe have voted for a local democrat in the late 90s if I remember that thread correctly.
Be like calling myself a former republican voter, I voted for a few Republican Governors.

It would be inaccurate to say I was a Democrat before, and if I did phrase it as such I apologize for the lack of clarity. I did lean left in some ways and still do on many areas. I genuinely feel Obama wasn't half bad, though far from perfect or even approaching such. I just feel the big difference between myself and the left today is really personal responsibility. The left is full of excuses and lowers the bar for everyone, makes up reasons they can't achieve and rewards for a lack of effort. Their continued "It's ok, its not your fault" way of going about things only continues to erode society and make our country worse. I am an atheist-type constitutionalist with a pretty sizable Libertarian streak. I don't fit especially neatly into any of the two main categories. I used to drink the koolaid and think the left were the fighters for equality, and there was a time that probably was true and the work they did was very good. But today they fight for privilege and inequality, and anyone without partisan blinders on can see it.

 

[Moonbeam]

I have a more liberal brain, actually. I just happen to have become pro-Trump after it became clear how crazy the left has become as of late, how Hillary is bought and sold, and how inaccurately Trump is covered. I almost don't blame leftists for hating him, there is an agenda out there against him by those that pull the strings, and when they do the puppets dance as commanded.

Moonie, I've been pro-Democrat and pro-Republicans over the last 4-5 election cycles, can you say that? Or does it just so happen the party you prefer somehow ALWAYS has the best person for the job? My brain isn't the one with the defect.

Black and white again. The Democrats never have the best person for the job, only the better person than the Republican Party candidate. Better is gray scale. Best is black and white. You can't handle a gray scale much less color. You have a conservative brain and a need to believe. The result is ideological rationalization.

 

[Jhhnn]

Except for gun control and abortion, yea, pretty much.

• National Firearms Act of 1934
• Gun Control Act of 1968
• Brady Bill
• Import gun ban by President George H.W. Bush
• President Obama social security gun ban - later replead by congress
• Import gun ban by President Bill Clinton
• Import gun ban by President Trump - part of sanctions against Russia.
• Family violence laws that ban people from owning guns because of a misdemeanor crime.

Then there are the various state level gun control laws.

Part of what we have given up is the right to own a gun without the governments permission, aka background checks. Restrictions on various types of guns, and import bans on other types.

Taking of gun rights without a felony conviction, such as a misdemeanor family violence.

So repressed, all the time since 1935. Highly amusing. Gun owners have been winning since Heller & with concealed carry all over the country. There are no background checks for private party sales in the vast majority of states.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

It would be inaccurate to say I was a Democrat before, and if I did phrase it as such I apologize for the lack of clarity. I did lean left in some ways and still do on many areas. I genuinely feel Obama wasn't half bad, though far from perfect or even approaching such. I just feel the big difference between myself and the left today is really personal responsibility. The left is full of excuses and lowers the bar for everyone, makes up reasons they can't achieve and rewards for a lack of effort. Their continued "It's ok, its not your fault" way of going about things only continues to erode society and make our country worse. I am an atheist-type constitutionalist with a pretty sizable Libertarian streak. I don't fit especially neatly into any of the two main categories. I used to drink the koolaid and think the left were the fighters for equality, and there was a time that probably was true and the work they did was very good. But today they fight for privilege and inequality, and anyone without partisan blinders on can see it.

Apology accepted and thank you for offering it.

 

[Moonbeam]

Maybe so, I'm just not feeling it this time around but its still early.

The problem with Clinton was her titanic negatives thanks to years of Republican demonizing. Now Sanders also has the deficiency from being slimed by Democrats. Looks to be a real issue for him, or rather for Democratic changes to win, if you will. The party is divided and he is at the center of it and the first to take blame. This is part and parcel of how progressive movements get destroyed and why American democracy will stay dead. It's will be interesting to watch.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Black and white again. The Democrats never have the best person for the job, only the better person than the Republican Party candidate. Better is gray scale. Best is black and white. You can't handle a gray scale much less color. You have a conservative brain and a need to believe. The result is ideological rationalization.

When we're talking about a two party system there isn't a ton of room for gray. There is the best option and worst option. For me, the best option was sometimes been from party A, sometimes party B. Can you say that?

 

[Texashiker]

So repressed, all the time since 1935. Highly amusing. Gun owners have been winning since Heller & with concealed carry all over the country. There are no background checks for private party sales in the vast majority of states.

I would not call Heller a win, that is just upholding rights.

What other rights are taken away because of a misdemeanor?

 

[Jhhnn]

I would not call Heller a win, that is just upholding rights.

What other rights are taken away because of a misdemeanor?

Lordy!

So if the ruling had gone the other way you wouldn't have called it a loss, I suppose. WTF planet are you from, anyway?