Bernie Sanders announces 2020 campaign (and apparently raises a massive amount of $$$ within hours)

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thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
11,912
2,129
126
Yup, 100% correct. And that is why Bernie has such a leg up in the race, he was offering free stuff in the last election, he's a proven ally to those that refuse to put effort into their own lives. Want to drop fries in the oil all your life as a career path? Well you deserve $15/hr, free tuition to Fry.T.T. Institute, tax payers will handle your health care and rent, a tax payer provided basic income and food stamps will help supplement the lowly $15/hr, etc. etc.
If you are concerned with people getting off their asses, maybe you should support politicians who will lower the cost of education (does any Republican run on that premise?)...that might actually help people be productive and tax-paying in the future, instead of saddling them with massive amounts of debt.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,775
49,428
136
If people aren't paying their fair share of taxes then that needs to be fixed for sure. What you are saying is..."too late it's all gone to hell anyway, nothing we can do", which shouldn't be the attitude to take or nothing ever gets better.

There are many countries that have free or heavily subsidized university that have a high quality of education. Of course, this cannot happen in isolation. You need to reduce military spending for example or RAISE taxes for things to work without bankrupting the country. This is all assuming the goal is to raise everyone's fortunes.

The idea that there are large numbers of people who do not pay into the system is false. Whenever conservatives say this they always focus on federal income taxes only, ignoring state and local taxes.

They do this because they are liars.
 
Reactions: compcons and jmagg
Feb 4, 2009
34,703
15,950
136
I wasn't aware of that.

Here are some highlights:

We'll be so tired of winning we won't know what to do
My tax plan with bring (forgot wording) enormous benefits to everyone
We'll rid ourselves of Obamacare and replace it with something that is cheaper, lower deductibles, covers everyone who wants to be covered, keep your doctor, less waiting time for appointments and nobody dies on the street
The wall Mexico was going to be happy to pay for
500 or 600 million infrastructure plan to make everything better
HSA's that are tax free and allowed to roll over year to year
grow the economy at 5 or 6% per year
eliminate the federal debt in 8 years
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,684
6,195
126
That's a pretty good take on the issue, but I don't think it's correct in my case. I've never asked for, or received, anything that I didn't pay for. The small success I've had has been entirely due to hard work, honesty, and being far to stupid to know when to quit. That attitude and work ethic pervades my entire life. I understand there are people that for any number of valid reasons are in trouble and need help, I don't begrudge that help, but it's perfectly valid for me to ask how many hours of my day will have to be given to that cause.
It also concerns me when these things become rights. As a right, it removes the requirement of action from the recipient, the equation changes from earning these things to demanding them.
In my opinion this is a wonderful answer, or response, or comment or whatever.

I personally don’t think the kind of solutions I would envision would justly derive from the income average working people, self employed or not. I would like to see wealth drawn from the top to provide work of one kind and another at the bottom to increase the number of people in the middle. I would like to reduce the number of valid reasons why people need help. My fundamental position is that people are born good, not evil, that they must not be written off as worthless, lazy takers, that society can either destroy people or facilitate their development via opportunity.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,775
49,428
136
Nice distraction. I asked a simple question and stated a few facts that cant be disputed. As for " such word , much meaning ( ESLmuch? Were you just being a dick? ) That shit doesn't fly.

I look at that chart and it seems to me that whatever that fucking peanut farmer did fucked the country forever.

The simple answer is that you don’t understand what communism is.
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,656
491
126
I wasn't aware of that.

to Paraphrase Trump "Mexico will pay for the wall"

meaning that Trump said the U.S. and her citizens get the wall basically for free....

only that doesn't seem to be how it's working out now does it...

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trumps-wall-money-military-housing-base-repairs/story?id=61109794

Family housing for service members in Wisconsin and South Korea, schools on military bases in Germany, and upgrades to Fort Bragg in North Carolina and Air Force bases in Alaska could be on the chopping block with President Donald Trump's national emergency declaration to use billions in military construction money to build a border wall.

Most concerning about the fact that money could be funneled from housing projects for military families to this wall boondoggle is that some families are in unsafe housing conditions as shown in the link below
https://www.npr.org/2019/02/13/6943...ed-housing-afraid-to-come-forward-survey-says
After the Beckstrom family's home in Fort Bragg, N.C., flooded with untreated sewer water, toxic substances remained in their house. The family said the company that managed the property, Corvias, refused the family's numerous requests to relocate. Eventually the Beckstroms were able to move, but all three children now suffer from severe medical conditions, which the report maintains may have been caused by environmental hazards.

The Nichols moved into a home in West Point, N.Y., only to discover after family members grew ill that every vent was covered with black mold. Balfour Beatty, which was managing the property, first sent a representative who did not do any mold sampling. The company insisted the mold levels were within normal limits, only agreeing that the family should move months later after test results showed toxic levels. "We nearly lost our children," said Mrs. Nichols.

Considering the possibility that Trump may take away funds that could be used to correct conditions like the ones above....
one has to ask how much does Trump really care about military personnel and their families?

At least a person would ask that if they have any amount of integrity.



_______________
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
I found this piece to be rather interesting:

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/02/20/bernie-sanders-left-2020-225190

It is more along the lines of what I often argue, the drift on the left toward grievance identity politics. I believe that there is no other place that we can be at our current level of consciousness and that those filled with grievance are actually motivated by hate and that hate is fear and the source of all evil. It isn't just conservatives who fuck themselves.

Really? You're going to let Rich Lowry of the National Review explain what's going on with Democrats? You don't understand how that's utterly suspect?
 
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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
one has to ask how much does Trump really care about military personnel and their families

One merely has to remember that he has thousands living in tents & living on rations along the border as a political stunt to answer that question.

Trumpie DGAF.
 
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Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,632
5,315
136
If you are concerned with people getting off their asses, maybe you should support politicians who will lower the cost of education (does any Republican run on that premise?)...that might actually help people be productive and tax-paying in the future, instead of saddling them with massive amounts of debt.
Isn't absurd tuition cost the direct result of massive amounts of money being poured into the system?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,684
6,195
126
Really? You're going to let Rich Lowry of the National Review explain what's going on with Democrats? You don't understand how that's utterly suspect?
No. I didn’t say he explained Democrats. I said I found his opinions, based on the fact that I read them in the light of my own sensibilities, interesting. I also frequently find myself favoring my sense of what conservatives are doing far better than I think they can. I guess I am so sure of the value of my opinion that it doesn’t trouble me so much to hear what others have to say. I think a reading of my sig will show I’m an old hand at being considered a suspicious character. You might even say it’s second nature to me.

Anything specific you might have liked or disliked?
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,493
3,159
136
I think Bernie had his 15 minutes already.
Big mistake if it ends up Bernie against Trump.
Trump and Fox news would absolutely destroy Bernie, and it wouldn't be pretty.
Republican are terribly nasty. And they have all of the right wing media to back them up.
Fox, Rush, Coulter, to name only a few. And there are so so many more.
Before they were done with tearing Sanders apart, even Sanders supporters would question if Bernie was a commie socialist.
And Bernie isn't even the guy that colludes with Putin. Go figure.
But they'd make you think he was.... Sanders that is.

Naw....
I think the best bet is for a woman.
I think the time is right for a woman.
But it must be a strong woman who can convince electing that woman would not harm the economy nor destroy job creation. And as liberal as that woman might be, she would also need to cozy up to the banks to convince that booming stock market and job growth would continue.
Then she would have ISIS and North Korea and that rats nest to talk about.
Trump could easily put doubt into the people that anyone but himself is capable.
Any woman up against trump would have to be very focused, strong, thick skinned, and able to take it as well as dish it out.

As for Bernie, he may have been up to it... once upon a time.... but if he should go down he would go down fast and hard.
Besides the name calling republicans would hit Sanders with, and hit hard, it would take only one nasty skeleton in Bernie's closet to completely end his chances.
And you can bet at this very moment, somewhere, there are republican operatives searching for something, anything for Trump to hit Sanders with.
And if they can't find something really bad, they will simply make something up.
Like they usually do.
Then, creating that right wing talking points memo. And there you are.
RIP Bernie.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
No. I didn’t say he explained Democrats. I said I found his opinions, based on the fact that I read them in the light of my own sensibilities, interesting. I also frequently find myself favoring my sense of what conservatives are doing far better than I think they can. I guess I am so sure of the value of my opinion that it doesn’t trouble me so much to hear what others have to say. I think a reading of my sig will show I’m an old hand at being considered a suspicious character. You might even say it’s second nature to me.

Anything specific you might have liked or disliked?

Rich Lowry is an accomplished right wing propagandist. The only reason you entertain his opinion is because he's very good at what he does, which is to bullshit.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,684
6,195
126
Rich Lowry is an accomplished right wing propagandist. The only reason you entertain his opinion is because he's very good at what he does, which is to bullshit.
As a person who discovered he doesn’t know anything, I have the same opinion, bullshit, of anybody who thinks they do. I find some bullshit more interesting than others though.
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
197
106
`

I believe you are a victim of propaganda. I think it is a statistically proven fact that the gap between the rich and the poor in our country has widened and to the extent we are verging on revolution, something I would prefer not to see.

Propaganda - I feel the younger generation is going to vote in their best interest, and that is for the person who promises the most free stuff.

Revolution - Why do you think Trump was elected? People saw him as a political outsider.

Whether it is democrat or republician, we need someone who is going to address the issues, and address them directly. If someone says they do not support medicare for all, they lose a large portion of the progressive vote.

My opinion, Bernie is the best overall candidate. I disagree with his stance on abortion, but that is a democrat wedge issue.

We need someone who will:

Guarantee medicare for all
Balance trade
Secure the borders

If Trump would jump on the medicare for all bandwagon, he would be unstoppable.

Besides all of that, love you Moonbeam XXOOXX
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,650
5,224
136
I respectfully disagree.

Hillary lost because she ran a campaign based on fear and lies. She stuck to a playbook that had won countless elections before hers.

What won Trump the election is how he addressed the issues. He addressed balanced trade, he addressed jobs, he addressed immigration... etc.

One example was Hillary saying when she is elected women will make as much as men. Well, logical thinkers already know the wage gap is a lie. Also, there is a federal law on the books to ensure equal pay. Besides all of that, states have laws to ensure women make the same as men. This "women will make as much as men" played to emotional voters.

Another issue was Hillary saying she was going to shut down the coal mines. What are those people supposed to do for jobs? I voted agsinst hillary in part to save the jobs of coal miners and to save their families.

The vast majority of hillarys campaign was "Trump is bad."

The vast majority of Trumps campaign was addressing the issues.

That is why Trump won and Hillary lost.

I'd say Hillary's campaign was based on mush, technocratic policy papers that didn't connect, keep doing what Obama did but being a Clinton, and being a woman.

Trump did address issues in a simple, understandable way, then sold complete bullshit how he would fix stuff "easily." That and a healthy dose of racism and fear.

So the choice was mush, or hope, fear and lies.

Trump won because a ton of people took a gamble on the bullshit, and weren't bothered by the racism too much.
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,650
5,224
136
He supports Castro. He supports Ortega. He spent his honeymoon in the USSR. He flew a Russian flag in his office. This man is a fucking dyed in the wool communist.

Calling him a communist is hypobolic and dated (Trump is the Russia humper anyway) but Sanders does have some connections to shady ppl that were never vetted.

Going to get uglier this time.
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
197
106
Trump won because a ton of people took a gamble on the bullshit, and weren't bothered by the racism too much.

Proof of racism?

You will probably go back to the 1970s, but let's keep it to within the past decade or so, ok?
 

Thrashard

Member
Oct 6, 2016
140
28
71
This is pocket change to Trump. Bernie will never get Billions. Trump has tons of Gold stashed away.

From 2014

 
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Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,650
5,224
136
Proof of racism?

You will probably go back to the 1970s, but let's keep it to within the past decade or so, ok?

Start with the opening speech calling Mexicans (minus "some") drug dealing rapists, then continue to all the other endless shit he said for two years.

See Speaker Ryan as perfect example of the hand waiving:

I disavow these comments,” Ryan said. “Claiming a person can’t do the job because of their race is sort of like the textbook definition of a racist comment. I think that should be absolutely disavowed. It’s absolutely unacceptable.”

But the Wisconsin Republican, who endorsed Trump last week, said he still supports him.

“Do I believe that Hillary Clinton is the answer? No, I do not,” he said. “I believe that we have more common ground on the policy issues of the day and we have more likelihood of getting our policies enacted with him than we do with her."

Whoa whoa whoa... I mean he's a textbook racist if there ever was one.... But.. he'll pass those sweet tax cuts for billionaires and not give two shits about gutting healthcare services. I'm in.
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
197
106
The idea that there are large numbers of people who do not pay into the system is false. Whenever conservatives say this they always focus on federal income taxes only, ignoring state and local taxes.

They do this because they are liars.

I feel Amazon getting back over 100 million in tax returns justifies our feelings that certain players are not paying their fair share.

How does companies like amazon, facebook, google, exxon... not paying their fair share make me a liar?
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
197
106
Start with the opening speech calling Mexicans (minus "some") drug dealing rapists, then continue to all the other endless shit he said for two years.

<snip>

So if someone speaks their feelings that makes them a racist?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,775
49,428
136
I feel Amazon getting back over 100 million in tax returns justifies our feelings that certain players are not paying their fair share.

How does companies like amazon, facebook, google, exxon... not paying their fair share make me a liar?

Amazon pays little in federal taxes because they engage in massive re-investment in their business. America would be better off if more companies acted like amazon.
 
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