Bernie Sanders Favorability Rating = 61%

[ivwshane]

If I had believed in "alternative facts" I would be a Trump supporter. Moonbeam has a point that I think you are missing. It isn't that Hillary had no ideas which were without value but she lacks what her husband had, his greatest asset, emotional intelligence. That's not just "feeling" but understanding others on a more visceral level. Again I refer you to Joe Biden, not one likely to be hypnotized by Russians, and he and I pretty much dovetail in interpretation of Hillary's failure.

Great leaders connect with their people. "I had a dream", "Ask not what your country can do for you", "fourscore and twenty years ago" were not platform bullet lists. They were things people could relate to with a complexity beyond policy, things which address common values beyond race or class. They are statements which can appeal to Americans and inspire not a race or class but all peoples of our nation.

That's what those leaders had, intelligence which does not gain a spot in Mensa, but is key nonetheless, with Bill being the example again. He wasn't a stupid man by any measure. He had the intellectual capacity to lead but he was "one of the people" as well, something missing from the Hillary campaign.

The Russians? They had a part to play but I believe you are overestimating their contribution. What I learned was that the DNC was not "equal opportunity", but you know what I think of partisanship and so there was nothing earth shattering. Like Biden, one who was born a low life in primitive Scranton, PA- the very people some love to excore- the ignorant white people, trailer trash Rust Belt types, or Bill Clinton from backwater Hope, AR, some "get it" and some don't. Hillary didn't and it is the job of the leader to come down from the mountain not the public to climb up to meet with someone who is incapable of showing they matter.

I'm with Joe, not Trump, not Hillary, not the Russians.

Good lord that's a lot of bullshit! Hillary Clinton's background is about as American as you can get and hardly one from the upper political class. Where do you even come up with this bullshit?

You illustrate perfectly the level of propaganda that was thrown at Hillary (Russian or not).

Btw, what Hillary lacked wasn't the ability to connect with people emotionally, it was the ability to connect with large crowds of people. By all accounts she connected with people on a very emotional level and even kept contact with alot of those people. It's also why she preferred smaller town halls rather than stadium type settings.

Hillary failed because trump had a superior electoral game or probably more accurately, Hillary didn't have a good electoral game (just like in her run against Obama). I'll also attribute part of her loss to a poor or non existent campaign message and because she played trumps game instead of hammering her policies into peoples head with the details and reasons why she chose such policies.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Good lord that's a lot of bullshit! Hillary Clinton's background is about as American as you can get and hardly one from the upper political class. Where do you even come up with this bullshit?

You illustrate perfectly the level of propaganda that was thrown at Hillary (Russian or not).

Btw, what Hillary lacked wasn't the ability to connect with people emotionally, it was the ability to connect with large crowds of people. By all accounts she connected with people on a very emotional level and even kept contact with alot of those people. It's also why she preferred smaller town halls rather than stadium type settings.

Hillary failed because trump had a superior electoral game or probably more accurately, Hillary didn't have a good electoral game (just like in her run against Obama). I'll also attribute part of her loss to a poor or non existent campaign message and because she played trumps game instead of hammering her policies into peoples head with the details and reasons why she chose such policies.

Call Joe and ream him out, the Rust Belt idiot. He sure bought into the propaganda because he is stupid like the voters who didn't line up behind Hillary and push.

The Russians merely tapped on the Glass Queen and the campaign shattered. That you cannot understand basic qualities of humanity, is not our fault. That Hillary lacked emotional intelligence was obvious long before any Russian intervention. One just had to watch her. Again not our fault.

 

[Bitek]

People are dying from many causes, not just suicide. Chronic stress related diseases are disproportionately on the rise. But they weren't any concern of Hillary's because those people weren't an important demographic in her calculated pandering. Hillary and her minions could and cannot empathize with people, just classes and it cost her.

Funny how you will fault Hillary for not having a policy on a very specific, in the weeds issue, yet Trump never had anything close to even an outline of a plan for HC other than "better and cheaper".

Had Hillary won, she wouldn't be flailing like Trump as she is versed in actual policy details and had a stockpile of policy papers to build from.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Funny how you will fault Hillary for not having a policy on a very specific, in the weeds issue, yet Trump never had anything close to even an outline of a plan for HC other than "better and cheaper".

Had Hillary won, she wouldn't be flailing like Trump as she is versed in actual policy details and had a stockpile of policy papers to build from.

This has nothing to do with Trump, policy or health care. It has to do with connectedness and that is not a "in the weeds" issue. Hillary may make a great policy aid and functionary, but I never mentioned policy as it is irrelevant in context. When Bill said "I feel your pain" it may have came across as glib, but regardless it wasn't a "policy", a laundry list of "to do's". He won, she didn't and that is not everyone else's fault. It was a campaign manned by those with severe Asperger's.

 

[Younigue]

This has nothing to do with Trump, policy or health care. It has to do with connectedness and that is not a "in the weeds" issue. Hillary may make a great policy aid and functionary, but I never mentioned policy as it is irrelevant in context. When Bill said "I feel your pain" it may have came across as glib, but regardless it wasn't a "policy", a laundry list of "to do's". He won, she didn't and that is not everyone else's fault. It was a campaign manned by those with severe Asperger's.

But is your comment meant to suggest that the people found if easier to connect to Trump because he had emotional intellect? If so, he never once tried to be of the people, one of the people. If anything he bragged and flaunted from his Tacky Tower. They didn't vote for an equal, they clearly voted for someone who was their superior (in a defunct, abuse victim kind of way). I do understand what you're saying but Donald Trump doesn't fit in to your talking point any better than Hillary Clinton does.

 

[Jaskalas]

This despite the fact that am wealthier than 99.99% of the people who have ever existed on the planet.

Are you? Cost of living and expenses are also greater than anytime else in history.
The question is... at the end of the month or year, what savings do you keep over your costs?
Does it matter how much you've historically had, if you can be homeless tomorrow?

What is this plight you speak of? Well, other than a weakness for doom, gloom & self pity?

Majority of Americans don't have $500 in savings
If you here, posting, have that much money... then you don't know the hopelessness of those voters.
Living month to month... and sinking fast.

 

[Jhhnn]

If I had believed in "alternative facts" I would be a Trump supporter. Moonbeam has a point that I think you are missing. It isn't that Hillary had no ideas which were without value but she lacks what her husband had, his greatest asset, emotional intelligence. That's not just "feeling" but understanding others on a more visceral level. Again I refer you to Joe Biden, not one likely to be hypnotized by Russians, and he and I pretty much dovetail in interpretation of Hillary's failure.

Great leaders connect with their people. "I had a dream", "Ask not what your country can do for you", "fourscore and twenty years ago" were not platform bullet lists. They were things people could relate to with a complexity beyond policy, things which address common values beyond race or class. They are statements which can appeal to Americans and inspire not a race or class but all peoples of our nation.

That's what those leaders had, intelligence which does not gain a spot in Mensa, but is key nonetheless, with Bill being the example again. He wasn't a stupid man by any measure. He had the intellectual capacity to lead but he was "one of the people" as well, something missing from the Hillary campaign.

The Russians? They had a part to play but I believe you are overestimating their contribution. What I learned was that the DNC was not "equal opportunity", but you know what I think of partisanship and so there was nothing earth shattering. Like Biden, one who was born a low life in primitive Scranton, PA- the very people some love to excore- the ignorant white people, trailer trash Rust Belt types, or Bill Clinton from backwater Hope, AR, some "get it" and some don't. Hillary didn't and it is the job of the leader to come down from the mountain not the public to climb up to meet with someone who is incapable of showing they matter.

I'm with Joe, not Trump, not Hillary, not the Russians.

You go on as if she didn't connect with 3M more voters than Trump despite the tsunami of slime sent her way.

 

[ivwshane]

Call Joe and ream him out, the Rust Belt idiot. He sure bought into the propaganda because he is stupid like the voters who didn't line up behind Hillary and push.

The Russians merely tapped on the Glass Queen and the campaign shattered. That you cannot understand basic qualities of humanity, is not our fault. That Hillary lacked emotional intelligence was obvious long before any Russian intervention. One just had to watch her. Again not our fault.

What does Biden have to do with anything? You know Biden endorsed Hillary right? Anyone can claim they could have beat trump but that doesn't mean it's true.

 

[Jhhnn]

But is your comment meant to suggest that the people found if easier to connect to Trump because he had emotional intellect? If so, he never once tried to be of the people, one of the people. If anything he bragged and flaunted from his Tacky Tower. They didn't vote for an equal, they clearly voted for someone who was their superior (in a defunct, abuse victim kind of way). I do understand what you're saying but Donald Trump doesn't fit in to your talking point any better than Hillary Clinton does.

Trump heads a mindless leader cult.

 

[Younigue]

Trump heads a mindless leader cult.

Yes, it does have that flavor. They don't want to be awakened so they won't be, no matter what. They're going long for the football, T'is disconcerting.

 

[Jhhnn]

Are you? Cost of living and expenses are also greater than anytime else in history.
The question is... at the end of the month or year, what savings do you keep over your costs?
Does it matter how much you've historically had, if you can be homeless tomorrow?



Majority of Americans don't have $500 in savings
If you here, posting, have that much money... then you don't know the hopelessness of those voters.
Living month to month... and sinking fast.

It's the world of the Job Creators! & 35 years of trickle down economics. If we just give 'em more tax cuts we can obviously turn the whole thing around, I'm sure. But only if we slash govt spending & regulations to unleash the power of Capitalism!

Shee-it, Sherlock- it's the political version of battered spouse syndrome.

You apparently don't realize that Trump voters were generally more affluent & paradoxically less educated, either-

http://www.businessinsider.com/exit...cted-but-trump-still-got-42-of-female-votes-1

It's not about what you think it's about at all.

 

[jmagg]

It's not about what you think it's about at all.

But it is. It's about the working middle class having less and less disposable income (if any at all), year after year due to inflation, healthcare and stagnant wages. This is what the Dems forgot or didn't want to address and the reason why Trump is where he is.

 

[Jaskalas]

But it is. It's about the working middle class having less and less disposable income (if any at all), year after year due to inflation, healthcare and stagnant wages. This is what the Dems forgot or didn't want to address and the reason why Trump is where he is.

They would attempt to address it in meek policy, but the campaign message was far removed from policy.

 

[Jhhnn]

But it is. It's about the working middle class having less and less disposable income (if any at all), year after year due to inflation, healthcare and stagnant wages. This is what the Dems forgot or didn't want to address and the reason why Trump is where he is.

You're trying to assign motives of reason to something that isn't about reason at all. Trump's appeal is pure gut level emotionalism preying on well conditioned fear & prejudice. What Trump saw was a way to exploit & expand on seething resentment against all the wrong people among conservatives. The greatest enemy to the welfare of the American People is greed at the top & they just voted in the greediest bastard to ever disgrace the Presidency.

Yeh, sure, the things you mention concern us all but aren't why conservatives ran into the arms of the Devil. Far from it.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

But is your comment meant to suggest that the people found if easier to connect to Trump because he had emotional intellect? If so, he never once tried to be of the people, one of the people. If anything he bragged and flaunted from his Tacky Tower. They didn't vote for an equal, they clearly voted for someone who was their superior (in a defunct, abuse victim kind of way). I do understand what you're saying but Donald Trump doesn't fit in to your talking point any better than Hillary Clinton does.

Trump is rather like a predator whose instincts serve him well when manipulating people, so yes he has an instinctive sense of how to appeal. Emotional intelligence is an awareness and can be a means to help or harm. History shows that people were rallied to do great harm by some. Their messages found a place in hearts and minds. One was in a land which was war wasted, starving and crushed under the heel of other nations, one in particular- France. He was a great fool to use his leadership abilities for war, but the people wanted revenge and he wanted power. That did not make him better than Hillary but it did give him an edge she lacked. Bill, for all his warts was someone who wanted unity more than division and as the years go by I appreciate him more. He could lead.

Trump? He's not worthy of my consideration in terms of positive qualities. I don't like or want the man.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

You go on as if she didn't connect with 3M more voters than Trump despite the tsunami of slime sent her way.

She had 3 million more votes. OK. She was running against a POS and that doesn't mean she "connected". She smelled less.

 

[Jaskalas]

You apparently don't realize that Trump voters were generally more affluent & paradoxically less educated, either-

http://www.businessinsider.com/exit...cted-but-trump-still-got-42-of-female-votes-1

It's not about what you think it's about at all.

It's the economy.

You take a national sample of GOP votes and try to paint over the vulnerable Rust Belt and Appalachians.
I suggest you look at what flipped, and why it flipped. The core of Trump's campaign was a radical economic message.
My message here is that there's a growing segment hungry for such a radical departure.

In lieu of Trump's pending failure, we can strike out with a bold progressive platform.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

What does Biden have to do with anything? You know Biden endorsed Hillary right? Anyone can claim they could have beat trump but that doesn't mean it's true.

Biden knows why Hillary lost and states it so people can understand it. Endorsing Hillary? GWB said as much he'd vote for Hillary before Trump. Doesn't seem like swimmingly great endorsement. Noses were held with the result of Trump winning the Presidency and Hillary winning the popular vote because people decided who they wanted less. It is a fact that both Hillary and Trump were the most disliked Presidential candidate since data has been collected. You will blame the Russians but in no case will you find fault in Hillary's lack of general appeal which goes back before Putin. She stepped back, issued statements and let the press eat Trump while her campaign nipped at Trump heels. It obviously was not enough.

 

[ivwshane]

But it is. It's about the working middle class having less and less disposable income (if any at all), year after year due to inflation, healthcare and stagnant wages. This is what the Dems forgot or didn't want to address and the reason why Trump is where he is.

I disagree. Its about white working men's economic anxiety. They are worried about their jobs going to Mexico. I suspect these are high paying low skilled jobs, which are exactly the type that would get automated or outsourced.

 

[Moonbeam]

jmagg said:
But it is. It's about the working middle class having less and less disposable income (if any at all), year after year due to inflation, healthcare and stagnant wages. This is what the Dems forgot or didn't want to address and the reason why Trump is where he is.

To which jhhnn said:
You're trying to assign motives of reason to something that isn't about reason at all. Trump's appeal is pure gut level emotionalism preying on well conditioned fear & prejudice. What Trump saw was a way to exploit & expand on seething resentment against all the wrong people among conservatives. The greatest enemy to the welfare of the American People is greed at the top & they just voted in the greediest bastard to ever disgrace the Presidency.

Yeh, sure, the things you mention concern us all but aren't why conservatives ran into the arms of the Devil. Far from it.

And to which vwshane said:
I disagree. Its about white working men's economic anxiety. They are worried about their jobs going to Mexico. I suspect these are high paying low skilled jobs, which are exactly the type that would get automated or outsourced.
==============
Jesus, I feel like I'm in a room full of donkeys trying to pin a tail on Trump or on anything but where the problem is.

jmagg's point was that the democrats didn't address a specific concern of a group of voters who, not voting for her cost her the election./

Who the fuck is the point of debating the exact nature of what their anxiety was about or how reasonable or unreasonable it is, the GOD DAMNED POINT IS that she didn't do enough to focus on those issues FOR REASONS. and SHE LOST THE ELECTION.

I and a really thin percentage of people saw it coming and our warnings fell of deaf ears, ears that even now will not open. So the democratic party is doomed to repeat its mistakes because it can't even fucking see them when they are obvious.

And here I was living my life out in a delusional reality that to get a donkey's attention you needed to hit it with a 2x4 in the head. And now my world view is totally shattered because all that does it weould seem is knock the hearing out of big ears.

Thank God a few here get it.

 

[jmagg]

I disagree. Its about white working men's economic anxiety. They are worried about their jobs going to Mexico. I suspect these are high paying low skilled jobs, which are exactly the type that would get automated or outsourced.

Why does it have to be only white working men? You're showing your hand.
What you are projecting is a rich or poor society with no living wage labor jobs. There will be plenty of automation for large corporations and repetitive tasks yes, but outsourcing to make the rich richer is a bi-partisan duck job. Are you enjoying your cheap disposable China junk?

 

[ivwshane]

Why does it have to be only white working men? You're showing your hand.
What you are projecting is a rich or poor society with no living wage labor jobs. There will be plenty of automation for large corporations and repetitive tasks yes, but outsourcing to make the rich richer is a bi-partisan duck job. Are you enjoying your cheap disposable China junk?

Based off of polling data, she lost against uneducated white males who make above $50k a year.

As for the rest of your rant, I have no idea what the fuck you are talking about.

 

[jmagg]

As for the rest of your rant, I have no idea what the *** you are talking about.

Neither did the DNC.

 

[Jaskalas]

Do you really believe the working class in America has job / economic security?
That a single injury / medical bill would not instantly bankrupt them?
How many stay awake at night fearful for their future?

Someone spoke to that.... someone else said he's bad. We have the person who made the connection.
That same connection needs to be made to back both Medicare for all and UBI. Those voters can be swayed.

 

[ivwshane]

Do you really believe the working class in America has job / economic security?
That a single injury / medical bill would not instantly bankrupt them?
How many stay awake at night fearful for their future?

Someone spoke to that.... someone else said he's bad. We have the person who made the connection.
That same connection needs to be made to back both Medicare for all and UBI. Those voters can be swayed.

I agree. If the dems were smart they'd be out right now touting their plans and solutions to issues and bringing it to the American people. When the Republicans blow them off and offer no solutions of their own, it should be a shoe in for the dems in 2018.