I imagine choosing between the mexicans are rapists guy and someone who reliably votes for the liberal agenda must be real tough for the the stormfront types. Also pretty comical when trumpsters pretend to value authenticity.
You are wrong here. Bernie's message wasn't necessarily what people who were center/right of center liked about Bernie, it was Bernie's authenticity - the exact opposite of Billary (large %'s of her own party didn't/don't trust her, and to the non-Dem lemming, her act is an obvious fake...unlike her husband who at least has some natural charisma, i.e. she just can't pull off the BS act like her husband could/can). If Bernie would have won the Dem nomination, or, if Bernie would have ran as an Ind, I would have went from no question voting for Trump over Billary to having an exceedingly hard time deciding between Bernie or Trump...and I agree with Bernie on almost nothing. But I at least know he's genuine (well, as much as a Politician can be).
I think a big problem for democrats is that from their perspective anyway, they had to pick between two decent candidates with others in the wings, while Republicans had a pack of worthless candidates with one outlier freak. I can appreciate how an appreciation of authenticity would lead you to such a dilemma,
I imagine choosing between the mexicans are rapists guy and someone who reliably votes for the liberal agenda must be real tough for the the stormfront types. Also pretty comical when trumpsters pretend to value authenticity.
If you click on the link in that post you can find out what motivates trump types.
snip
I see the good in them, and the pain that they feel. I know what it is they need to feel warm, and safe again. I will stand for promising them the moon again, the way my fellow Americans should. I will stand for progressive leaders who share these dreams.
That Presidential candidates may not be authentic in using that appeal as a means to an end? That's why it's far more important to create a movement towards goals, rather than rely on a mere President to keep their promises. But a moment does not grow if the lesson of 2016 is not learned, the failure to appeal not amended.
I view it as a call to action to go bold, to find and rally those who will follow in Sander's footsteps.
Yes, after Billary got the nomination (pre-destined to ensure Bernie wasn't an Ind factor like Perot was), I had more than a couple discussions with Lefty friends and a.) only the rabid could stomach Billary and b.) when the discussion went to who I would vote for in Bernie/Trump or Bernie/Billary/Trump election, it was agonizing for me to pick between Bernie or Trump.
The problem now for Dems is that the story that it was Russia, Russia! who made Billary lose has solidified, the Dem Establishment and Media have done their job cementing it, so now real DNC reform will not happen. It may appear to happen, but that will be just fire up base for the usual lemming votes, and enough to get enough of that undecided center. With Bernie, there would have been an actual chance for a true DNC house cleaning. I'd probably have picked Bernie in a Bernie/Trump match-up just for that reason, despite him appointing judges who I'm sure I'd be completely opposite of, along with pushing for policy I'm sure I'd be completely opposite of (although some things of his I might be able to get behind).
The only thing good about the outcome of this election is by the end of it, it might lead to the revamping of the RNC, or its destruction. I'm not holding my breath though...
I had the same thoughts, that possibly Trump hopefully could mean the end of both parties.
Under great condemnation from friends, family, and the NY liberals and other knowledgeable liberals on this forum, I was forced to abandon all hope that Trump had good intentions. When I look at him now all I see is a strutting Mussolini.I hold out hope but honestly, I just don't think it's going to happen. The powers that be are just too entrenched in both parties. Trump does have the capacity to at least shift the Reps but unfortunately, if he wants to get anything done, he's at their mercy. I could say something crazy like I hold out hope Trump will come to his senses (do those exist?) and realize that because of the Reps he's going to be remembered as the most corrupted POTUS ever, and actually put his foot down and run POTUS independent of them, but, I just don't see it happening.
Honestly if the Reps were playing the long game (yes, scream laugh worthy right there), they'd throw some social bones out there to at least take some wind out of the Dem sails...but since we do short term only thinking here in the US, there is little chance of that. Witness the Reps health plan debacle...
I hold out hope but honestly, I just don't think it's going to happen. The powers that be are just too entrenched in both parties. Trump does have the capacity to at least shift the Reps but unfortunately, if he wants to get anything done, he's at their mercy. I could say something crazy like I hold out hope Trump will come to his senses (do those exist?) and realize that because of the Reps he's going to be remembered as the most corrupted POTUS ever, and actually put his foot down and run POTUS independent of them, but, I just don't see it happening.
Honestly if the Reps were playing the long game (yes, scream laugh worthy right there), they'd throw some social bones out there to at least take some wind out of the Dem sails...but since we do short term only thinking here in the US, there is little chance of that. Witness the Reps health plan debacle...
Repubs have played the long game wrt propaganda since at least 1994. Some of 'em were this crazy back then but not nearly so many.
Under great condemnation from friends, family, and the NY liberals and other knowledgeable liberals on this forum, I was forced to abandon all hope that Trump had good intentions. When I look at him now all I see is a strutting Mussolini.
It's funny you think that propaganda long game is played only by the Reps...
It's my White Nationalism, Bernie is White while Trump is Orange. Get it together man/woman/thing, you're slipping!
I know full well that your contribution to P&N is to speak almost exclusively of racism. Be it your own or others.
We have been over this before and you have shown no other message. Yours is not a path towards healing or positive outcomes.
A large number of people may very well have enjoyed a message that scapegoated others. But I find there's plenty of ways to reach out to dampen their despair with optimism for the future the way Barrack Obama rallied the nation in 2008. You may not believe in that message, or that there's anything left to talk about with others, but I will not sit idle while an American people who are hurting are torn apart by divisive views born of hatred.
I see the good in them, and the pain that they feel. I know what it is they need to feel warm, and safe again. I will stand for promising them the moon again, the way my fellow Americans should. I will stand for progressive leaders who share these dreams.
I had the same thoughts, that possibly Trump hopefully could mean the end of both parties.
Repubs have played the long game wrt propaganda since at least 1994. Some of 'em were this crazy back then but not nearly so many.
I know full well that your contribution to P&N is to speak almost exclusively of racism. Be it your own or others.
We have been over this before and you have shown no other message. Yours is not a path towards healing or positive outcomes
Personally I find his dedication to finding a simple universal answer to things to be most admirable even if he fails rather miserably to note a simpler explanation that racism is one of the many manifestations people use to project a feigned superiority to hid their own feelings of self contempt. I'm wondering if he may not be a very sharp person of color used to the accolades due those at the pentacle of achievement in say a country like India who came here to only to find the ingrained egalitarianism of Americans rather a let down compared to what he feels he deserves. He certainly seems to have some sort of chip on his shoulder and seems rather threatened by the idea that he may, like the rest of the human race, be suffering from self hate. But whatever the explanation he seems to be as bigoted toward bigots as they are to the objects of their bigotry, which puts him in the same camp. Anyway, he confirms the adage that though you can tell a bigot, you can't tell him much. He denies, defends, and counterattacks like our toxic Pres. Trump so I think of him as Agent Orange. And now, of course, I must be punished. I'll take a couple of hits of nitrous oxide before reading any reply.
Propaganda hardly seems necessary when it's in simple clear interests of conservatives to embrace the ethnic resentment vote. Or would you argue that Jaskalas & co have been historically taught to put klansmen on a pedestal from before PR was a thing?
I'd argue that Repub propagandists have worked hard to foster ethnic resentment & exploit it.
If that's the case then why was the mexicans are rapists guy riling up their base the outsider? Seems we should be giving the GOP establishment some credit for not exploiting those underlying tendencies nearly as much as they could. Surely they've also seen the studies pointing to racial animosity as the most potent force in american politics same as the trump camp.
Who did the democrats run to when they feared they'd be outspent on propaganda, as if how often you hear something is what matters rather than the relevance of the message. Looks like we have two parties, one that helps to do the fucking and the other to assist the fuckees to bend over.They just kept it seething just below the surface, thinking they could always control it & use it. They thought Trump was just too blatant, that he'd turn off more people than he turned on. They underestimated the effects of their own handiwork over the previous decades, lost control of it. Lots of people told 'em not to go there, not to summon the darkness that lurks in the human heart but they weren't skeered because it got them votes.
I mean, why the Hell would middle class people vote for trickle down economics if they weren't irrational enough to not realize that's what they're doing? Get 'em crazy & agitated enough over emotional issues & they'll run straight into the arms of the Devil as often as not.
All I'm sure of is that we're lucky Trump doesn't have great song writers-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29Mg6Gfh9Co
It's like that, just like that, make no mistake about it.
MAGA drew out extra voters in specific areas not because it was the established Republican platform. GOP hated Trump and his policy.
Victory in the future... a true victory.... is not just about sticking to the corporate center. Wall Street is not a path you want.
Just look at Trump's populist appeal... it's all written out for you there, how to reach out to those voters.
There are still many people who do not adhere to the left / right divide and will simply vote in their own interests.
Call out to those interests, vow for and campaign on setting economic fire to the status quo, as MAGA promised.
As I've been saying, there's a growing segment of desperate people who want fresh policy that helps them.
This is not simply about doing what is comfortable, or what is easy. It can also be about doing what people believe in.
By being bold, brash, and obnoxious as to form an emotional connection. That, yes we can. That change is coming and it can help them.
Obama made that connection. It's a wonder why his appeal was dismissed for mediocrity. One step forward, two steps back.
Let's learn from the mistakes of aiming low, and instead aim high.
JFK didn't fund NASA by promising us low earth orbit. He promised us the moon, and the nation delivered.
...
I won't repeat previous explanations of why I treat degeneracy the way I do, since the results speak for themselves.
Suppose I need to amend my message to address you in particular.
JFK didn't fund NASA by promising us a final solution for "degeneracy". He promised us the moon, he inspired greatness by rallying people's hopes and dreams. May I assume you voted for Obama previously? If so I think I understand you a lot more, given a reflection of how Obama rallied the nation in 2008. Those were hopes and dreams as well, and to fall from there to where we are now. Such pain may be unimaginable to me.
You are hurt, and hurting still. Now you wish for others to feel your pain. To share it with the world.
Would I be mistaken in thinking that is your purpose now?
They just kept it seething just below the surface, thinking they could always control it & use it. They thought Trump was just too blatant, that he'd turn off more people than he turned on. They underestimated the effects of their own handiwork over the previous decades, lost control of it. Lots of people told 'em not to go there, not to summon the darkness that lurks in the human heart but they weren't skeered because it got them votes.
I mean, why the Hell would middle class people vote for trickle down economics if they weren't irrational enough to not realize that's what they're doing? Get 'em crazy & agitated enough over emotional issues & they'll run straight into the arms of the Devil as often as not.
All I'm sure of is that we're lucky Trump doesn't have great song writers-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29Mg6Gfh9Co
It's like that, just like that, make no mistake about it.