Bernie Sanders would destroy the economy...

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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
The panama papers are nothing new to me. The key takeaway from the panama papers is the same old story. The masses arent going to pay attention to any of it. The masses dont care because that story will never make the corporate news. The only thing that surprises me about the panama papers is that I havent seen the "conspiracy theorist" pejorative thrown around as much as I first assumed it would.



That is big government. It is the swarm of parasites that surround government that make it "big government". Laws and regulations are like rotting meat. The more you have, the more maggots you are going to have. That is why any rational person much be an advocate of a limited federal government. It is why the founders framed the constitution the way they did. They knew all about maggots back then. Maggots havent really changed in 200 years, even though they now carry smartphones.



Constitutional is not radical. Restoring a limited government is not radical, it is American through and through. And yes it will happen if the country is to survive. Because it is not going to survive an invasion of low IQ leftists from low IQ 3rd world countries who have no desire for or respect for limited government. If they succeed in their invasion and their quest to outbreed the natives, then the country will simply be gone and replaced by a tin pot dictatorship with no bill of rights. That is what all these people want, its all they know.



Obama is his predecessor. Same neocon-led foreign policy. Same big government tax and spend fiscal policy. Same destruction of sovereignty. This singular fact is the well where Trump and Sanders spring from. Decades of globalists, parasites, crooks, con men, and their media tentacles. They are the ones who draw these fake lines of distinction between Bushes and Clintons and Obamas. But in every way that matters, they are in fact the same.



Again this is completely wrong. The IRS is just another nest of parasites. The more you grow it the more parasites infest it. The answer is to cut the IRS. Eliminate the IRS. Replace it with a flat taxation on consumption, a tax that cannot be gamed, cannot be manipulated, cannot benefit in any way from an army of attorneys and lobbyists that only the rich can afford. This is the most basic premise of limited government.

What limits the power of wealth, the power of multinational corporatocracy in this new Libertopia?

Nothing at all, which is why it's bullshit.
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,752
4,562
136
While we're on the topic of "accomplishments", Ted Cruz shut down the government over Obamacare and after everything was said and done he got nothing but costing the country money from shutting down the government. He's also plugged the interests of such fine telecoms as Comcast and Time Warner that have used their duopoly system to keep prices high and get themselves rated as some of the worst companies in America.

Then you have Trump. Born with a silver spoon, inherited a fortune most of us could only dream of having and goes bankrupt. Slams immigrants and advocates for American jobs at the same time he outsources labor of his own products to foreign workers. Then you have Hillary. Voted for a useless war, advocated for the patriot act. In bed with the banks. Hell compared to the rest of these clowns, Bernie's seemingly lack of "achievements" almost seems stellar in contrast. He didn't make things worse. Which is the point. Nothing can be done for the middle class at this point, but Bernie at least could use power of Veto to slow down the process of making America worse.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,102
136
He already has: link.

If only Clinton's rabid supporters could be so gracious.

That's good, and it's nice if more Sanders supporters are aware he said this, but he still has to endorse her in the end.

Do you honestly think Clinton's supporters are the "rabid" ones? That's odd, because all I hear is the Sanders supporters who equate Clinton with the GOP and say they're won't vote for her in the general. I'm not hearing the equivalent from the Clinton camp.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
That's good, and it's nice if more Sanders supporters are aware he said this, but he still has to endorse her in the end.

Do you honestly think Clinton's supporters are the "rabid" ones? That's odd, because all I hear is the Sanders supporters who equate Clinton with the GOP and say they're won't vote for her in the general. I'm not hearing the equivalent from the Clinton camp.
Both candidates have rabid supporters who ignore their candidate's flaws and jump at any opportunity to attack their opponent and his/her supporters. You can see that in many threads here (probably including this one). It's childish and ultimately counterproductive; it changes no minds and drives away voters you need in the general election.
 

stockwiz

Senior member
Sep 8, 2013
403
15
81
If Hillary would publically support marijuana legalization we wouldn't even be having this argument.. she'd have 75-80% support. If the politicians won't join the 21st century, than people will pick one issue and focus on it to get someone who will.
 

flexy

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2001
8,464
155
106
Many, many years back when I first heard of Hillary at some point in the future wanting to run for prez, there was a public debate w/ her saying that she wants to ban violent video games. Many years back. I hated her ever since - unfortunately I also had not one yota of doubt that she WILL become prez when she is running.
 

Exophase

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2012
4,439
9
81
Do you honestly think Clinton's supporters are the "rabid" ones? That's odd, because all I hear is the Sanders supporters who equate Clinton with the GOP and say they're won't vote for her in the general. I'm not hearing the equivalent from the Clinton camp.

Are the Clinton camp as present in your social spaces? Including online?
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
If Hillary would publically support marijuana legalization we wouldn't even be having this argument.. she'd have 75-80% support. If the politicians won't join the 21st century, than people will pick one issue and focus on it to get someone who will.

Please. Take a look at Congress. Realize who elected them. There are parts of this country still too deep into the mythos of prohibition to make this into a national issue just yet. The time is not yet ripe.

With Obama's blessing, state level legalization is now a reality & more progressive states will join in so we can lead the rest slowly & reluctantly to national legalization. I really can't see Hillary turning that around.

They're just afraid, afraid of the unknown. State level legalization dissipates those fears in ways that nothing else can. It's all there, documented & scrutinized from dozens of angles. Here in CO, we reveal the truth about cannabis. Legalization is a good deal for nearly everybody & we're proving it. It'll just take longer with some folks. We can't make 'em change.
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,752
4,562
136
As more and more liberal states allow legalized pot there's going to be a big hearty laugh at the other guys as the tax revenue continues to pour in. Maybe they should just see how some more of those supply side tax cuts work for them. :hmm:
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,102
136
Are the Clinton camp as present in your social spaces? Including online?

I'm basing it mainly on what I read here, and to some extent on social media and other forums. Here I have access to a much larger number of voters of all stripes than IRL. There's maybe 8 people I discuss politics with IRL. Online, it's more like hundreds.

All I can tell you, from what I've seen, is that it's common for Sanders supporters to say that Clinton is no different than any republican and they will not vote for her. Not all Sanders supporters, but many. OTOH I haven't seen a single Clinton supporter saying they wouldn't vote for Sanders. If such a person exists on P&N, let me know who it is because I must have missed it. Admittedly I do not read every last post.

So far as both camps criticizing the other candidate, well of course, that goes without saying. But the Clinton supporters are generally saying that Sanders is promising things he cannot deliver. Whether valid or not, this is a pretty temperate criticism. While Sanders supporters are saying Clinton is a "plutocrat" who is in the pocket of Wall Street, like she's part of some establishment cabal. Frankly, much of it sounds unhinged to me.

Since we have one candidate who is more moderate and pragmatic, and the other, more populist and idealistic, it shouldn't be the least bit surprising that the voter blocs and personalities that each appeals to are different. The notion of both sides being the same is about as valid here as people who say both political parties are the same. It just isn't true in either case.
 
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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
I'm basing it mainly on what I read here, and to some extent on social media and other forums. Here I have access to a much larger number of voters of all stripes than IRL. There's maybe 8 people I discuss politics with IRL. Online, it's more like hundreds.

All I can tell you, from what I've seen, is that it's common for Sanders supporters to say that Clinton is no different than any republican and they will not vote for her. Not all Sanders supporters, but many. OTOH I haven't seen a single Clinton supporter saying they wouldn't vote for Sanders. If such a person exists on P&N, let me know who it is because I must have missed it. Admittedly I do not read every last post.

So far as both camps criticizing the other candidate, well of course, that goes without saying. But the Clinton supporters are generally saying that Sanders is promising things he cannot deliver. Whether valid or not, this is a pretty temperate criticism. While Sanders supporters are saying Clinton is a "plutocrat" who is in the pocket of Wall Street, like she's part of some establishment cabal. Frankly, much of it sounds unhinged to me.

Since we have one candidate who is more moderate and pragmatic, and the other, more populist and idealistic, it shouldn't be the least bit surprising that the voter blocs and personalities that each appeals to are different. The notion of both sides being the same is about as valid here as people who say both political parties are the same. It just isn't true in either case.

What it means is that the most extreme Bernie bros are chumps for right wing propaganda. It's just a different flavor than they peddle to the Repub faithful. Splitting the opposition is a time honored political tactic & that's exactly what Repubs are trying to facilitate.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
By all means look in to it.

If your idea of presidential is a 30+ year politician who has basically collected a paycheck for showing up to work, then more power to you.

I do think it's odd that you would be willing to vote for bernie without doing any examination of his record while dismissing hillary as an option while simultaneously going through her record with a fine tooth comb.
I'd be willing to vote for Bernie (assuming his opponent is Trump or Cruz) simply because of his populist bent, the fact that he's avoided the temptation to use his political office to enrich himself, and because as Sonikku pointed out, he could use the veto against the destructive policies on which both parties agree. He's hardly an unknown quantity - openly admitting to being a socialist brought him to everyone's attention long ago, so I've long observed him. By the same token, I have long observed Mrs. Clinton. I find her to be everything I hate in politicians, namely dishonest and greedy. That observation is why I don't consider her an option.

I'm not claiming that Trump or Cruz are any better, mind you, I'm just saying that neither is sufficiently repulsive to make me vote for the Hildabeast as would, say, a Huckabee or a Santorum. Not when I can vote for Gary Johnson.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
It's funny that you should say this, because FiveThirtyEight recently pointed out that politicians are probably a bit more honest than the average person gives them credit for: http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trust-us-politicians-keep-most-of-their-promises/
lol A site on politics releases an article claiming that politicians are honest and Trump is the devil? Wow, how cutting edge. I wonder if other political sites will be inspired to release similar articles.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,346
15,161
136
lol A site on politics releases an article claiming that politicians are honest and Trump is the devil? Wow, how cutting edge. I wonder if other political sites will be inspired to release similar articles.

You think 538 is a political site? I'm also curious where you got the impression they think trump is the devil.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
You think 538 is a political site? I'm also curious where you got the impression they think trump is the devil.
For the first, 538 was created by Nate Silver as a political site. Its name is derived from the 538 electors in the electoral college. For the second, I read the article.

But there is perhaps a double irony to Trump benefiting from this misperception. He, unlike many of those he criticizes, really doesn’t seem to be interested in keeping his promises. Obviously, we can’t (yet) compare his rhetoric to his performance in office, but we can examine how well his rhetoric lines up with the plans his campaign has released and with his own past actions. And the mismatch is striking.
Not only does the article insist that politicians keep their promises, it asserts the opposite of Trump - the guy who hasn't yet even secured a nomination.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
For the first, 538 was created by Nate Silver as a political site. Its name is derived from the 538 electors in the electoral college. For the second, I read the article.


Not only does the article insist that politicians keep their promises, it asserts the opposite of Trump - the guy who hasn't yet even secured a nomination.

So you're disputing the veracity of what they said?

We're talking about a man who claims to be looking out for the little guy who also claims that wages are too high, aren't we? A man whose tax plan is pure trickle down? How does one keep the promises inherent in those deceptions, anyway?

A man whose promise to deport all the illegals will necessarily treat latino citizens as vermin? How can he deliver on that?
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
So you're disputing the veracity of what they said?

We're talking about a man who claims to be looking out for the little guy who also claims that wages are too high, aren't we? A man whose tax plan is pure trickle down? How does one keep the promises inherent in those deceptions, anyway?

A man whose promise to deport all the illegals will necessarily treat latino citizens as vermin? How can he deliver on that?
All Latinos aren't illegals, nor are all illegals Latinos. I'm sure though that Hispanics everywhere appreciate you automatically equating them with illegals. 'Cause after all, what's more important than how someone looks, right?

Dumbass.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
All Latinos aren't illegals, nor are all illegals Latinos. I'm sure though that Hispanics everywhere appreciate you automatically equating them with illegals. 'Cause after all, what's more important than how someone looks, right?

Dumbass.

I didn't equate them with illegals at all. Explain how the immigration Gestapo will tell the two groups apart.
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,493
3,159
136
The only way Trump could bring jobs back to America would be to lower the wage to equal that paid in Mexico.
$2 an hour.
That would do it.
And Donald has already hinted at this, when he says the current minimum wage of $7.25 is too high.
If you have a brain, you know what he's up to.
Lowering standards in America to attract factories, manufacturing, and bring back the jobs.
That should just about take care of business leaving America preferring Mexico.
And take care of immigrants from Mexico having any desire to flee into America.
You could call Donald the new food stamp president, but his congress will eliminate food stamps, thus making the entire issue moot.

In a perfect world, Sanders would be the correct choice.
But this isn't perfect world. He has Hillary to deal with.

This is indeed an extremely weird election cycle.
It would appear Hillary will easily win her party nomination and Trump easily his.
The time is ripe for the unknown to step in. The unforeseen. A wrench tossed into the works.
Something just doesn't feel right.
Like a dark storm brewing on the horizon, something wicked this way comes.
Nothing is as it appears.
.
.
 
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Mai72

Lifer
Sep 12, 2012
11,578
1,741
126
Bernie is finished.

Since he's old, I doubt we will ever see him run for president again.
 

inf1nity

Golden Member
Mar 12, 2013
1,191
3
0
You don't have a clear understanding of the powers assigned to the executive branch. Sanders would spend four frustrating years shaking his fist at the clouds and accomplishing nothing in the process. He'll have virtually no cooperation from both Republicans and Democrats within Congress.

Wishing that weren't the case won't change the situation.

Why don't you guys try the parliamentary system?
 

flexy

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2001
8,464
155
106
Is Bernie "finished"? Maybe.
Is he old? He certainly is.

But where there is no "maybe" is that the GOP and old-school politicians, this INCLUDES Trump are finished. We have three climate change deniers there running as "candidates" for the office of the most powerful man on the planet. One of them believes it's a hoax made by the Chinese, and at least two want to abandon the EPA.

The GOP is at it's last leg.

Give it 10 years. More old-fart, senile conservatives will be gone, and MUCH MORE Millennials will be voting.

Do you think that those people will vote clowns into office who deny climate change and are against the EPA?

The GOP should enjoy its remaining few years of existence. Once they get their massive blow at THIS election, it'll go downwards quick.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,722
6,201
126
Is Bernie "finished"? Maybe.
Is he old? He certainly is.

But where there is no "maybe" is that the GOP and old-school politicians, this INCLUDES Trump are finished. We have three climate change deniers there running as "candidates" for the office of the most powerful man on the planet. One of them believes it's a hoax made by the Chinese, and at least two want to abandon the EPA.

The GOP is at it's last leg.

Give it 10 years. More old-fart, senile conservatives will be gone, and MUCH MORE Millennials will be voting.

Do you think that those people will vote clowns into office who deny climate change and are against the EPA?

The GOP should enjoy its remaining few years of existence. Once they get their massive blow at THIS election, it'll go downwards quick.

Yeah, we'll get a Massive Blow if Hillary wins. I just can't wait for more democracy according to the one percent.
 
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