Best 17'' LCD for Gaming?

[stephpar]

Those people that refer to ghosting or refresh issues with LCDs...can you tell me if this issue still applies with a DVI to DVI connection?

Basically...is gamign ok if you have a completely digital connection?

Fill me in folks..thx

Steph

 

[gunf1ghter]

DVI vs. regular analog vga connection has nothing to do with ghosting. Ghosting is the result of the slow speed at which a pixel can change color on an LCD panel.

You must have a panel with at least 25 ms average pixel response time to avoid ghosting problems.

The 25 ms is an average response time, the response time can be longer or shorter for certain color changes. The fastest time for the panel to change is from on to off (as opposed to changing to a specific color)... it can often do this in less than 10 ms.

Your maximum framerate with an LCD would be 1000 milliseconds (1 second) divided by the pixel response time.

A panel with a pixel response time (average) of 25 ms would give you typical framerates of:

1000/25 = 40 fps.

A panel with a pixel response time (average) of 35 ms would give you typical framerates of:

1000/35 = 28 fps.

A panel with a pixel response time (average) of 50 ms (still very common in lower end panels) would give you framerates of about 20 fps.

As you can see this is a big deal.

Do some research for more info.

 

[gunf1ghter]

Can anyone offer any good 18"-19" gaming LCD's that support non-stretching of the image when you display lower resolutions?

 

[*kjm]

TS you wanted posted specks on the 171P, look here 151P/171P

I have 151P and can tell you it works great. I don't play any FPS but do play DiabloII LOD. So I can tell you the 151P scales to 800X600 real well... it looks better than my 19inch CRT. I did download the demo to RTCW and played it for about a half hour and didn't see any gosting. I'm using the DVI with my 8500DV.

 

[*kjm]

Also FYI someone did post on the 171P in this forum, this is the link to it Link

 

[gunf1ghter]

I just can't justify the $950+ price of the Samsung 171P. I'm sure it's a nice display, but I just ordered the Planar PV174 from Dell's online store for $694 shipped next day. The monitor has good pixel refresh rates and has a few favorable review (most notably pc world who said the picture quality was top notch).

I will post here when I recieve it and have a chance to try it out.

 

[*kjm]

gunf1ghter

I know what you mean about $950. Thats why I got the 151P. It will go to my wife's system next year and I will get the 171P or something better for around what I paid for the 151P

 

[TSDible]

I just don't know if I can handle a drop in size from my current 19" CRT to a 15" LCD. The 17" on the other hand would not be as harsh.

I'm still leaning towards the 171P

I just don't think I would be happy with the 151P. I will just get my wife a $250 Rad5.

 

[*kjm]

I also had a 19inch CRT set at 1600X1200. Yes it was a shock to me but one I got used to in about 2 days. One way to see if it would work for you is to take a 17inch CRT and set the res. to 1024X768 and see what you think... also remember you can turn it vertical to.

If you don't think you can use something that small by all means get the 17inch of your choice. $500+ is a lot to spend on something you wont be happy with. I have talked to 3 people that have the 171P's and they are all happy with them and lucky for all of us none of us had any dead pixels.

 

[pookieguy]

After researching LCD's for the past month and buying a few trial and error, I've decided to stick with CRT.
CRT is still the BEST.
I bought a black CRT with very good specs.
The cost 10 times less and are better.

What I don't understand about LCD technology is the following...

Why do mostly all only support a resolution of 1280x1024? that's pathetic for a 18" or 19" LCD.
What really doesn't make sense though is that laptop LCD's can support these higher resolutions that CRT's offer, yet these EXPENSIVE LCD monitors can't. ??!? doesn't make sense.

I'll stick with CRT until the technology changes.

--
miguel

 

[gunf1ghter]

The biggest problem with LCD panels with 1600X1200 resolution is that many video cards can't run newer games at those resolutions and still get high framerates.

I recently went on a shopping trip and looked at some fairly high end CRT's from Sony, Mitsubishi, Ilyama, etc, and even the best ones couldn't hold a candle to the better LCD's as far as image quality. In looking at them side by side it was evident that all of the CRT's were slightly mis-converged, slightly out of focus, slightly blurry... yuck.

I use my PC too long each day to let my eyeballs continue to suffer that abuse.

If the LCD I ordered doesn't do well in games then I will run my GF4 in dual head mode and use my 19" Samsung CRT for gaming.

 

[Fant]

You've decided not to get an LCD by simply reading about em? HAve you ever seen an LCD? Even the best CRT is no comparison for the picture quality of an LCD. You did mention some drawbacks to current LCD technology but almost everyone agrees that the tradeoff is worth it. Besides most people spend a considerable amount of time on their windows desktop so for them there is no question.

 

[brianblair]

I just got a GF4 Ti4600, and have been researching LCD's with the intention of setting up a dual monitor system. After stopping by Staples and Circuit City, I have come to the conclusion that the cheaper LCD's (< $800) are not worth the money. After reading several reviews of the Samsun 171P, I think that is what I will get...although the 171MP is tempting because it is HDTV ready. However, since the GF4 has a TVIO, I could use the 171P to watch TV - just not HDTV (which isn't a big deal because no one in my area is broadcasting it). Any thoughts on this?

 

[TSDible]

brianblair

I suggest you splurge and get the 171P. Then make sure to play a lot of games on it and report back to us here.

This may be the biggest computer decision I have ever had to make.

 

[cmdrdredd]

this is the one I want!

http://www.apple.com/displays/acd23/

23inch High Definition LCD with 1920x1200 resolution

only problem is the price...$3499

 

[Demonicon]

I have a Planar 18.1" LCD and let me tell you that this thing is great. Hands down better then any CRT i've ever used, it's not even close.

Games run perfect, I don't notice any ghosting in QuakeIII or RtCW or any other game I play. I also have 0, yes 0, flicker. Needless to say my buds with CRT's are saving up for LCD's.

1280x1024 native resolution.

Only drawback to LCD's are the price, which will be dropping as the masses get weened off of CRT's.

BTW, make sure you have a DVI connection on your video card. DO NOT get a LCD if you are planning on using the analog connection.

 

[gunf1ghter]

I'm getting the 17.4" Planar with 25ms pixel response time in the next week... I will post here how it does in games.

 

[brianblair]

Hey TSDible,

How about I buy both of them and then give you the one I don't want

He heh heh

I am leaning towards the 171P...but it won't be for a few months. IN the meantime, I just bought an NEC Multisync 95 to run a dual monitor setup for now. Two 19" CRT's take up a lot of space though.

 

[gunf1ghter]

Yeah, the 171P is nowhere in sight. I cancelled my order for the Planar and am considering the NEC 1850X or the Samsung 181T. Anyone have experience with either of these panels for FPS games?

 

[TSDible]

gunf1ghter...

You are as bad as me...

I would also like some info on the NEC and the 181T. If J&R had the 171P in stock right now I would probably jump on it for $899. But alas... I must keep looking.

 

[gunf1ghter]

I am more and more coming to the conclusion that I might have to run two displays for true Joy. 18" flat panel for all windows/desktop work and non FPS games.

CRT display for action games.

The blurring that I saw when I bought the Mitsu E85LCD (rebadged NEC 1850E) were so bad that It would give me a headache to play on it for even a few hours. Although this display has 50ms response times, I am skeptical of the ability of any panel to be ghost free in FPS games. I also find the scaling that tries to fit a 4:3 image (counter strike resolutions) on a 5:4 panel (like all the decent 17"-18" displays) does a pretty poor job.

The Mitsu I tried (again, a re-badged NEC) had a super nice feature that allowed you to turn the scaling off... and many of the nicer panels have this feature, but sadly it is overriden in digital mode (which is how I will want to run the panel from my vid card).

 

[*kjm]

gunf1ghter

If you go to tomshardware forums under the LCD section there is a guy that owns the Samsung 170T. He said the Rt was 25ms and he loves it... Just FYI.

 

[gunf1ghter]

Thanks for the information.

Sensitivity to motion blur seems to be a personal tolerance kind of thing. Kind of like refresh rate. Some folks swear they can't tell the difference between 60 and 85 hz and others find that anything less than 100hz is torture.

I find "motion artificats" like this very noticeable... years ago I sold satellite systems when DirecTV was first coming on the market. They had a lot of motion artifact problems with their MPEG2 video compression algorithms... although many ppl couldn't see it, I could. Same thing with DVD when it first came out (early versions of "Twister" were awful for this).

I am coming to the conclusion that I will probably have to keep a tube for FPS games for at least the next year or so until LCD with forward feed technology gets total pixel response times to under 15 ms.

 

[Mem]

My cousin got a nice 17" LCD IIyama ProLite 4134 here ,as a nice 25ms respone time, he said it was ok in gaming with me lastnight,anyway he`s going to try it out with me tonight in more online gaming,I`m going for a LCD at the end of the year but want something bigger like the Viewsonic VG191B,anyway by then might be some newer models out and cheaper prices .

 

[gunf1ghter]

I would definitely say that there will be more deals by the end of the year... it does seem though that they have hit a wall with pixel response until next year when Forward Feed technology can cut the response time in half.