Best AGP card now?

[Sheik Yerbouti]

I am not going to upgrade my mobo just to get a new vid card. I've got 2GB of RAM, an AMD 3200+, and I just don't want to. What would be a great card to replace my 6800GS I've got now?

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Budget, games you play, res your monitor supports, res u wanna play at, feautrures you want ?

 

[tuteja1986]

x1950xt 512mb agp

But i recommend getting and ocing it http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814102093

its faster than x1950pro since it has all 16 pipeline enabled.

 

[honestjohn]

If you are not going to build a new PCI-E system then I would go with the Sapphire X1950 Pro 512MB Card, I was able to overclock mine to HIS X1950 Pro V1 clocks without issue and it's not a whole lot slower than the Gecube X1950XT. However, if you're current PSU isn't up to it, then I would go for the XFX 7950GT. Below is a list of some of the cards I've owned over the past year with a few pros and cons. Hope it helps.

Gecube X1950XT 256MB AGP

Pros:

The absolute fastest AGP card you could own.

Cons:

Uses 3-slots due to massive Peltier Cooler (TEC)

Uses a ton of power. Manual Addendum recommends 550w. 3 Molex connections required or 1 PCI-E & 1 Molex Connection.

No ramsinks/heatsinks are used on the memory chips.

Default memory clocks are 1400 Mhz. effective. Most PCI-E cards are set at 1800 Mhz. I was able to overclock to a maximum of 1600 Mhz. however.

Many reports of users needing to send these back due to overheating issues due to a poorly installed cooling solution. This is a user fixable problem however and it may be remedied by removing the heatink backplate and adding padding with electrical tape or other material so proper contact bewteen the heatsink and GPU can be established.

XFX 7950GT 512MB AGP

Pros:

Just slightly slower than a Sapphire X1950 Pro in 3DMark05, but slightly faster in 3DMark06.

Single slot cooler with minimal power supply requirements. A PSU with 400w and 20a on the +12v rail is recommended. Only 1 molex connection for power and most won't need to purchase a new power supply to run this card.

Lifetime Transferable Warranty for US customers which includes death by overclocking,.

Cons:

The price is $269 US

The XFX 7950GT and 7900GS AGP are currently not included in the standard Nvidia Driver Sets yet. Users must hack setup .inf file by adding 2 lines or wait for XFX to modify Nvidia Driver set and download from them. XFX just stated on their support site that they are working with Nvidia on this and it should be fixed in the next official release.

Sapphire X1950 Pro 512MB AGP

Pros:

The price is excellent almost everywhere and in my opinion it's the best bang for your buck card on the market for AGP.

Not far behind the Gecube X1950XT in performance. Scored around 400-500 points lower in 3dMark05/06 on my rig.

Single Slot Cooling Solution.

One of the few Pro's, if not the only one designed with native Molex Connections (2) rather than a PCI-E connector/Molex Splitter.

Cons:

A healthy power supply is required for this card. Manufacturer recommends 30a sustained/continuous power on the +12v rail or combined rails. In reality you may get by with a bit less, but it's a crap shoot depending on your system and quality of current PSU.


Have also owned and honorable mentions go to:

Visiontek X1950 Pro 256MB AGP - performance not as good as some of the other Pros. No readable temp diode, but a solid well built card.

HIS X1950 Pro ICEQ3 Turbo 512MB AGP - Version 1 - had 2 bad cards. HIS later addressed the issues with the Version 1 card and created Version 2 (V2) of this card with lower core clocks and better memory.

Gainward Bliss 7800GS+ (20-pipe) GLH 512MB AGP - expensive as hell. Nicely designed card, but the performance was much less than that of the Sapphire X1950 Pro.


P.S - No, I'm not totally nutz and I've probably lost only $50 or so through all my card swapping. Returned half of them and sold the other half on Ebay.

 

[evolucion8]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: honestjohn
If you are not going to build a new PCI-E system then I would go with the Sapphire X1950 Pro 512MB Card, I was able to overclock mine to HIS X1950 Pro V1 clocks without issue and it's not a whole lot slower than the Gecube X1950XT. However, if you're current PSU isn't up to it, then I would go for the XFX 7950GT. Below is a list of some of the cards I've owned over the past year with a few pros and cons. Hope it helps.

Gecube X1950XT 256MB AGP

Pros:

The absolute fastest AGP card you could own.

Cons:

Uses 3-slots due to massive Peltier Cooler (TEC)

Uses a ton of power. Manual Addendum recommends 550w. 3 Molex connections required or 1 PCI-E & 1 Molex Connection.

No ramsinks/heatsinks are used on the memory chips.

Default memory clocks are 1400 Mhz. effective. Most PCI-E cards are set at 1800 Mhz. I was able to overclock to a maximum of 1600 Mhz. however.

Many reports of users needing to send these back due to overheating issues due to a poorly installed cooling solution. This is a user fixable problem however and it may be remedied by removing the heatink backplate and adding padding with electrical tape or other material so proper contact bewteen the heatsink and GPU can be established.

XFX 7950GT 512MB AGP

Pros:

Just slightly slower than a Sapphire X1950 Pro in 3DMark05, but slightly faster in 3DMark06.

Single slot cooler with minimal power supply requirements. A PSU with 400w and 20a on the +12v rail is recommended. Only 1 molex connection for power and most won't need to purchase a new power supply to run this card.

Lifetime Transferable Warranty for US customers which includes death by overclocking,.

Cons:

The price is $269 US

The XFX 7950GT and 7900GS AGP are currently not included in the standard Nvidia Driver Sets yet. Users must hack setup .inf file by adding 2 lines or wait for XFX to modify Nvidia Driver set and download from them. XFX just stated on their support site that they are working with Nvidia on this and it should be fixed in the next official release.

Sapphire X1950 Pro 512MB AGP

Pros:

The price is excellent almost everywhere and in my opinion it's the best bang for your buck card on the market for AGP.

Not far behind the Gecube X1950XT in performance. Scored around 400-500 points lower in 3dMark05/06 on my rig.

Single Slot Cooling Solution.

One of the few Pro's, if not the only one designed with native Molex Connections (2) rather than a PCI-E connector/Molex Splitter.

Cons:

A healthy power supply is required for this card. Manufacturer recommends 30a sustained/continuous power on the +12v rail or combined rails. In reality you may get by with a bit less, but it's a crap shoot depending on your system and quality of current PSU.


Have also owned and honorable mentions go to:

Visiontek X1950 Pro 256MB AGP - performance not as good as some of the other Pros. No readable temp diode, but a solid well built card.

HIS X1950 Pro ICEQ3 Turbo 512MB AGP - Version 1 - had 2 bad cards. HIS later addressed the issues with the Version 1 card and created Version 2 (V2) of this card with lower core clocks and better memory.

Gainward Bliss 7800GS+ (24-pipe) GLH 512MB AGP - expensive as hell. Nicely designed card, but the performance was much less than that of the Sapphire X1950 Pro.


P.S - No, I'm not totally nutz and I've probably lost only $50 or so through all my card swapping. Returned half of them and sold the other half on Ebay.

</end quote></div>

I was able to run the X1950XT with a 500W PSU with no problems. In the manual states that the card requires a quality 450W PSU unit and the Crossfire setup requires a 550W setup. Is impossible that a single Radeon X1950XT requires a 550W, cause the Peltier in the GeCube card doesn't consume more than 18W.

Lots of users has reported that the fan of the XFX 7950GT AGP tends to fail quite quickly, probably the second batch is more reliable. The X1950PRO isn't far behind from the X1950XT except once you crank up the resolution and activates the anti aliasing, in such scenarios is when the X1950XT can perform faster because of it's 34% advantage in pixel and texel fillrate, even though the X1950PRO has 30% less shader fillrate, is not 33% behind of the X1950XT in heavy shader games cause there's no games that are shader bound (If there's any let me know . Also it only takes 1 PCI slot from my P4P800-E Deluxe, the other PCI near to it can be used but it's only a half inch under the fan so isn't a good idea to use it, probably the AGP Port in this mobo is unusually placed far from the PCI slots. Running in low resolutions with no or regular AA doesn't worth going to the XT cause the much higher power comsumption and probably a PSU upgrade. Also the X1950PRO is a poor overclocker, Gainward Bliss 7800GS also came in a 20 Pixel Pipeline edition, but it was scarce.

 

[evolucion8]

Originally posted by: tuteja1986
x1950xt 512mb agp

But i recommend getting and ocing it http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814102093

its faster than x1950pro since it has all 16 pipeline enabled.

That was a typo from Newegg cause that chip is based on the same RV570 which the X1950PRO and X1650XT is based, they're missing in hardware 4 pixel pipelines and 12 pixel shaders, isn't like the X1900GT which was based on the R580 core that it had those missing things but were disabled by BIOS or laser.

 

[honestjohn]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: evolucion8

I was able to run the X1950XT with a 500W PSU with no problems. In the manual states that the card requires a quality 450W PSU unit and the Crossfire setup requires a 550W setup. Is impossible that a single Radeon X1950XT requires a 550W, cause the Peltier in the GeCube card doesn't consume more than 18W.

Lots of users has reported that the fan of the XFX 7950GT AGP tends to fail quite quickly, probably the second batch is more reliable. The X1950PRO isn't far behind from the X1950XT except once you crank up the resolution and activates the anti aliasing, in such scenarios is when the X1950XT can perform faster because of it's 34% advantage in pixel and texel fillrate, even though the X1950PRO has 30% less shader fillrate, is not 33% behind of the X1950XT in heavy shader games cause there's no games that are shader bound (If there's any let me know . Also it only takes 1 PCI slot from my P4P800-E Deluxe, the other PCI near to it can be used but it's only a half inch under the fan so isn't a good idea to use it, probably the AGP Port in this mobo is unusually placed far from the PCI slots. Running in low resolutions with no or regular AA doesn't worth going to the XT cause the much higher power comsumption and probably a PSU upgrade. Also the X1950PRO is a poor overclocker, Gainward Bliss 7800GS also came in a 20 Pixel Pipeline edition, but it was scarce.

</end quote></div>

Where did you read about all the users having problems with the fans? I frequent several forums and I have only read good things about the XFX 7950GT. Most people don't even know it exists.

As far as the PSU goes for the XT goes, yeah I agree, 550w sounds like a bit much but I could have sworn the addendum stated this. Please check yours and confirm and I will edit my post. I am also not talking about what it says in the manual either because that does say 450w. I was referring to the single-sheet / page addendum that was included seperate to the manual which addresses the AGP X1950XT specifically. Also they recommend a 450w PSU and 30a sustained/continuous on the +12v rail for the X1950 Pro, wouldn't the XT use more? The Pro is only an 80nm GPU while the XT is a 90nm plus the TEC cooler needs additional power. Anyway, please let me know what that extra single-sheet addendum says. I hate spreading mis-information.

Not sure what your saying regarding the slots taken by the XT, but let me clarify what I meant. On my motherboard it uses the (1) AGP slot, the next (1) PCI slot, and then also makes the next PCI (1/2) slot unusable as well by partially covering it. I would have said 2 1/2 slots, but that is as good as saying 3.

My Sapphire X1950 Pro overclocked easily usiing the stock cooler to 620 core / 1480 mem effective for a nice little bump in performance. I agree, these cards are really not made for overclocking though, but you really don't need to with the excellent performance with stock clocks. Also left out of my previous comment regarding the 7950GT. They are very good overclockers. Have mie running at 645c/1600m using the stock cooler which works fine for me.

 

[honestjohn]

Originally posted by: evolucion8
That was a typo from Newegg cause that chip is based on the same RV570 which the X1950PRO and X1650XT is based, they're missing in hardware 4 pixel pipelines and 12 pixel shaders, isn't like the X1900GT which was based on the R580 core that it had those missing things but were disabled by BIOS or laser.

Not to nitpik but the GPU designation for the X1650XT wasn't the RV570 .....

X1650XT - RV560
X1950Pro - RV570
X1900GT - R580
X1950XT - R580+

 

[apoppin]

i am SO glad i am done with this debate

a *great card* to replace the OP's GT would be x1950p/512M ... it is the best bang-for-buck for an A64 3200+

 

[honestjohn]

Originally posted by: apoppin
i am SO glad i am done with this debate

a *great card* to replace the OP's GT would be x1950p/512M ... it is the best bang-for-buck for an A64 3200+

No debate here. I agree.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: honestjohn

Originally posted by: apoppin
i am SO glad i am done with this debate

a *great card* to replace the OP's GT would be x1950p/512M ... it is the best bang-for-buck for an A64 3200+

No debate here. I agree.

should i mention i have one AGP Sapphire x1950p/512M i am trying to sell in FS/T ?
:Q

EDIT: ... probably not ... nm

 

[bitachbutz]

Waht is the best VGA card for dual monitors. the one i'm using not flickers from time to time.

 

[evolucion8]

Originally posted by: honestjohn
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: evolucion8

I was able to run the X1950XT with a 500W PSU with no problems. In the manual states that the card requires a quality 450W PSU unit and the Crossfire setup requires a 550W setup. Is impossible that a single Radeon X1950XT requires a 550W, cause the Peltier in the GeCube card doesn't consume more than 18W.

Lots of users has reported that the fan of the XFX 7950GT AGP tends to fail quite quickly, probably the second batch is more reliable. The X1950PRO isn't far behind from the X1950XT except once you crank up the resolution and activates the anti aliasing, in such scenarios is when the X1950XT can perform faster because of it's 34% advantage in pixel and texel fillrate, even though the X1950PRO has 30% less shader fillrate, is not 33% behind of the X1950XT in heavy shader games cause there's no games that are shader bound (If there's any let me know . Also it only takes 1 PCI slot from my P4P800-E Deluxe, the other PCI near to it can be used but it's only a half inch under the fan so isn't a good idea to use it, probably the AGP Port in this mobo is unusually placed far from the PCI slots. Running in low resolutions with no or regular AA doesn't worth going to the XT cause the much higher power comsumption and probably a PSU upgrade. Also the X1950PRO is a poor overclocker, Gainward Bliss 7800GS also came in a 20 Pixel Pipeline edition, but it was scarce.

</end quote></div>

Where did you read about all the users having problems with the fans? I frequent several forums and I have only read good things about the XFX 7950GT. Most people don't even know it exists.

As far as the PSU goes for the XT goes, yeah I agree, 550w sounds like a bit much but I could have sworn the addendum stated this. Please check yours and confirm and I will edit my post. I am also not talking about what it says in the manual either because that does say 450w. I was referring to the single-sheet / page addendum that was included seperate to the manual which addresses the AGP X1950XT specifically. Also they recommend a 450w PSU and 30a sustained/continuous on the +12v rail for the X1950 Pro, wouldn't the XT use more? The Pro is only an 80nm GPU while the XT is a 90nm plus the TEC cooler needs additional power. Anyway, please let me know what that extra single-sheet addendum says. I hate spreading mis-information.

Not sure what your saying regarding the slots taken by the XT, but let me clarify what I meant. On my motherboard it uses the (1) AGP slot, the next (1) PCI slot, and then also makes the next PCI (1/2) slot unusable as well by partially covering it. I would have said 2 1/2 slots, but that is as good as saying 3.

My Sapphire X1950 Pro overclocked easily usiing the stock cooler to 620 core / 1480 mem effective for a nice little bump in performance. I agree, these cards are really not made for overclocking though, but you really don't need to with the excellent performance with stock clocks. Also left out of my previous comment regarding the 7950GT. They are very good overclockers. Have mie running at 645c/1600m using the stock cooler which works fine for me.

You can find the issues that the people states in the Newegg's user product comments, search for it and you'll find quite a lot of people stating that the card's fan fails or terrible artifacting and sudden death. And yes, there was a small sheet that states that a specialized PCI-E 550W PSU was required, it's quite weird cause the Peltier in that card consumes a mere 18W, but probably the 30A on a 450W PSU requirement was stated probably because it's hard to find a PSU of less than 450W with 30A on both 12V rails.

 

[JBird7986]

Originally posted by: apoppin
i am SO glad i am done with this debate

Agreed.

 

[evolucion8]

Originally posted by: honestjohn
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: evolucion8
That was a typo from Newegg cause that chip is based on the same RV570 which the X1950PRO and X1650XT is based, they're missing in hardware 4 pixel pipelines and 12 pixel shaders, isn't like the X1900GT which was based on the R580 core that it had those missing things but were disabled by BIOS or laser.</end quote></div>

Not to nitpik but the GPU designation for the X1650XT wasn't the RV570 .....

X1650XT - RV560
X1950Pro - RV570
X1900GT - R580
X1950XT - R580+

In fact, the RV560 is simply a RV570 with functionality disabled, that's why it didn't generate that much profit selling a handicapped X1950PRO disguised as a X1650XT in less than $150.00

http://www.gpureview.com/show_...hp?card1=473&card2=471

http://www.elitebastards.com/c...7&limit=1&limitstart=1

To be perfectly honest, the assertion that the Radeon X1650 XT runs on a core called RV560 is really quite fallacious in the extreme. RV560 is, in fact, the exact same RV570 core which we've seen power Radeon X1950 PRO boards, albeit with some functionality disabled.

Thus, we find this core sporting the same 80 nanometre manufacturing process and eight vertex shader units. Where it loses out to the Radeon X1950 PRO is with regard to pixel shader units and ROPs - One quad of pixel pipelines is disabled for 'RV560', giving it twenty-four pixel shader units against thirty-six on RV570, and just eight texturing units against twelve in the core's big brother. Four ROPs have also been switched off here, leaving us again with eight rather than twelve.

http://techreport.com/reviews/...n-x1650xt/index.x?pg=1

The intrigue gets even deeper when you examine this mysterious GPU, code-named RV560. Truth be told, this is actually the same graphics chip behind the Radeon X1950 Pro that we reviewed a couple of weeks ago, the R570. For the X1650 XT, though, ATI has disabled portions of the chip and assigned it a new code name. If I recall correctly, this is the first time ATI has fabricated two code names for the same piece of silicon. So basically, ATI has chucked the conventions for both video card names and GPU code names in recent weeks, and the Radeon X1650 XT is the result.

http://www.rage3d.com/reviews/video/atix1650xt/

As mentioned the X1650 XT is built on a new graphics core from ATI codenamed RV560. It?s an 80nm part and measures about 16.7mm by 15mm. It is, in fact, the exact same size as the X1950 Pro?s RV570 core and, as far as logic goes, would suggest that the RV560 has the same 330 million transistors as the RV570 does (Oct.30 Update: just got confirmation that this is, indeed, the case. The RV560 is essentially the same chip as the RV570 but with lower specs, of course).

Is that what ATi did to be able to outperform the almighty 7600GT which was designed from the start to be a fast midrange GPU, the RV530 was too castrated to be fast enough.

 

[honestjohn]

Originally posted by: evolucion8
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: honestjohn
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: evolucion8
That was a typo from Newegg cause that chip is based on the same RV570 which the X1950PRO and X1650XT is based, they're missing in hardware 4 pixel pipelines and 12 pixel shaders, isn't like the X1900GT which was based on the R580 core that it had those missing things but were disabled by BIOS or laser.</end quote></div>

Not to nitpik but the GPU designation for the X1650XT wasn't the RV570 .....

X1650XT - RV560
X1950Pro - RV570
X1900GT - R580
X1950XT - R580+
</end quote></div>

In fact, the RV560 is simply a RV570 with functionality disabled, that's why it didn't generate that much profit selling a handicapped X1950PRO disguised as a X1650XT in less than $150.00

http://www.gpureview.com/show_...hp?card1=473&card2=471

http://www.elitebastards.com/c...7&limit=1&limitstart=1

To be perfectly honest, the assertion that the Radeon X1650 XT runs on a core called RV560 is really quite fallacious in the extreme. RV560 is, in fact, the exact same RV570 core which we've seen power Radeon X1950 PRO boards, albeit with some functionality disabled.

Fallacious or not, the X1650XT it is still designated as an RV560 as I said. However, you were also correct in your assertion that the x1650XT is based on the RV570. If you had said the X1650XT was based on a castrated RV570 or something similar to that I wouldn't even have mentioned it. Sorry, I misinterpreted you.

désolé mon ami

 

[GEOrifle]

I'm not going to utilize my AGP system based PC, i hope new Dx10 AGP cards will give us
another chance.
Beside thise going to build new system, waithing for PENRIL's arrive and P38 .

 

[LocutusX]

My PSU is an Enermax from late 2001 (!!!) which is rated at 431 watts and apparently has 20A on the (single) 12V rail.

Surprisingly enough, it's still working fine (no funny noises or anything, no funny smells!)... but my question today is, would the X1950 PRO AGP probably be a "crapshoot" when trying to get it to run on my system?

systems specs should be below but in case they're not, A64 3000+ @ 2.5GHz, 2GB ram, 2 IDE HD's, 2 optical drives, 3 case fans, x800 Pro.


if it's most likely NOT going to work, i probably won't bother, as most of the computer shops near me have horrible return/exchange policies.

 

[JBird7986]

I'm pretty sure they wanted 30A on the 12V rail which means you'd need a new PSU.

 

[GEOrifle]

YOU BETTER GET LESS POWER HUNGRY 7800gs which is litle slower card than X1950PRO
but it has LIFETIME warranty vs ATI's 1-2 year.

 

[evolucion8]

Originally posted by: GEOrifle
YOU BETTER GET LESS POWER HUNGRY 7800gs which is litle slower card than X1950PRO
but it has LIFETIME warranty vs ATI's 1-2 year.

Little slower? The 7800GS has a very hard time to beat the X850XT PE, 60% of games, the X850XT PE still slighly faster due to it's higher pixel and texture fillrate, The X1950PRO is much faster than both cards, it can trade blows with the 7950GT in many cases which is faster than the 7900GS which is faster than the 7800GT which is much faster than the lowly 7800GS, if you want the best bang for your buck performance just get the X1950PRO, http://www.overclock.net/graph...n-graphs-gf-6-7-a.html <<In that page you will see the power compsumption of many cards, THe X1950PRO consumes far less power than any R580 chip based videocard. Bear in mind that the fastest AGP card is the GeCube X1950XT, but that will guarantee you a brand new 550W PSU or higher which probably is not feasibly for your pocket.

If you want to sacrifice performance for power, then get a 7900GS which will smoke the weak 7800GS with ease and will consume almost the same amount of energy. Bear in mind also that when they refer to Amperage on the 12V line, is in both 12V rails, if your PSU has 20A on the 12V1 and 18A on the 12V2, you have a total of 38A on both 12V rails, The X1950PRO can run properly with only 28A, many people states 30A, but if the X1950XT needs 30A on the line, why a X1950PRO will need it? My friend has a generic 450W PSU with only 28A on the line feeding a power hungry 3.2GHz Prescott CPU and doesn't have issues at all yet, probably they will come later once the capacitor aging begins.

 

[LocutusX]

I have only ONE 12volt rail (as I mentioned, it's an ancient PSU; I don't think they had multiple 12v rails back then) -- so I'll have to pass on this. Or maybe I should be proactive and replace the power supply? 6 years is getting kinda long isn't it...

 

[anindrew]

I'm also interested in upgrading my video card. I'm using a 3500+, EVGA 6800GT, 2GB Ballistix PC3200, Raptor 74GB, Audigy 2 ZS, and a 500W Dynex power supply. It has a PCI-e connector, but my mobo is an MSI K8N Neo2 Plat, which has AGP.

I've been considering getting one of the x1950pro 512MB cards for a while. However, I'm curious how the new HD2600XT (or pro) AGP cards will perform compared to the x1950s. They should be out in the very near future.

 

[GEOrifle]

I'm also waiting for HD2600XT AGP version cards but someone sad it's 50% slower then
X1950PRO!!!!!! What a shame!!!!!

 

[anindrew]

I read an initial review of the HD2600s that showed the x1950pro performed better, but it was from a month or two ago. I think ATI has released newer drivers since. I'll wait for some real reviews of the cards before I make a decision.