Best Gaming Build for ~$600?

[NexLevel]

I've been working on computers for 25 years now. But the more I read, the more I find I really just don't know. It's true: the advances and changes in the micro systems scene are so rapid that I almost would have to spend several hours a week keeping up.

Simply put -- I need advice. I've got (+/-) a $600 approved budget from the wife to get a new gaming rig (or the core of one).

I really need to do some gaming...I have the urge, and I will not be stopped. My goal is that by mid-December, I'll be knee-deep in some BF2142 action. With that being said, my main goal is just that -- mid to High Level Game play - meaning, I don't want to be anywhere near the low or low-medium end of the performance curve. If that means I need to spend more, then I need to know that. I don't expect to be at the top of the performance curve either -- I know the prices on the 8800GTX, and I ain't going there bubba!

I will undoubtedly do other things with the system, but here are the things I'm *not* worried about at all: PSU, Case, Optical drives, keyboard, mouse, monitor, etc. I have all that, and I don't need advice on those. Unless you feel like dishing it out.

Ok, so here's what I need to know: What is the BEST combination of CPU/MOBO/VIDEO/MEMORY for the money that would, without a problem, play BF2, Doom3, Quake 4, Halflife 2, Far Cry, UT2004 -- and then DECENTLY play BF2142?

My video platform is a 19" average LCD. I will, however, be (hopefully) going to a projector platform (WUXGA or better) by the end of the year, so that's a consideration too. My optimal (likely) resolution range will be 1280x1024 (average) -> 1600x1200 (max).

[*]Motherboard issues: I really don't expect, but I would like decent integrated sound. I'm not worried about anything more than excellent two-channel sound. I know that if I do the HTPC, I'll upgrade to a better sound platform in the PC anyway, so that's a moot point for now, and all I need is a gaming-compatible/friendly soundcard.

[*]Chip Issues: I'm at your mercy. I last left off in P4 and/or Duron land. I'm far behind, I know. Shoot me, or give me good advice.

[*]Memory Issues: I'm really needing to get up to speed. Last I remember, DDR was king, and RAMBUS was the corrupt politician. Does that make sense? Well, not to me either, but hey, here's what's important: I'd like no less than 1GB and obviously I'd really prefer 2GB. I don't know if modern games can take advantage of higher system memories, but I do know if I have 2GB I can probably forego using a pagefile altogether.

[*]Disk Issues: Again, I'm probably going to get a pair of SATA-3.0gbps drives and stripe them for performance. I'll handle the drive side, but the mobo should support RAID 0 if possible and SATA 2 obviuosly.

[*]Case, PSU, extras: I can handle. That's the tough part, right? (har har)

[*]Video Card: I'm completely at your mercy. My last (good) card was a RADEON 9800 AIW 128. I loved that baby, still do. Now-a-days, it's complete science: pixel shaders, pipelines, burstable DDR3 memory (I'm making half of this stuff up). Please, just read my game list and resolution ideals above, and know that if anything studders, I'm going to shoot myself. seriously. No, reallly.

Ok, I joke on the shooting part -- I will adjust the resolution and color depth and ansitropic anti-aliasing down to levels that allow for non-stuttering, but please -- can a guy who USED to know how to build PC's just get some advice on a new gaming rig that can at least tolerate 30FPS in most games at decent resolutions, color depths and graphical configurations?

I mean, over the past 7 years, I've built 2 or 3 systems that have been HORRIBLE because for one reason or another, some minor, obscure technical incompatibility or driver version or voltage difference has literally made the system perform like a 80486-DX4 with a 2MB video card. I've been so mad at the systems I've actually 'drop-tested' them a few times. Stupid, I know, but it made me feel better at the time.

Anyway -- thanks for reading this far. In return, I have about a gad-zillion gmail account invites I can share (lol).

 

[xitshsif]

Do you already have an operating system to use? Or does that need to fit within the $600 budget? If it has to, delling it (or equivalent) is probably the best choice. An OS license really plays a substantial role in pricing a system these days.

 

[NexLevel]

I have an existing VLK version of Windows XP Professional, 32-bit. I work for a *large* IT Consulting company and I have access for personal use and 'testing'.

So, yeah, I'm covered on that side, thanks!

 

[DaveSimmons]

At that budget level, 2 hard drives in RAID is a wasteful mis-allocation of scarce resources. Put that money into the video card.

For $600 I'd get a single-core socket 939 3700+ for around $90, cheap motherboard like Asus A8N-E, 1 GB DDR, cheap case + Fortron FSP PSU at about $50, and a 7900GS card.

You'd see a huge jump in performance and future-proofing by spending the extra (more like $1,000) to move to a Core 2 E6400 and 2GB DDR-2. See elventy billion other system threads for parts list.

 

[brikis98]

you'll probably want to go with an intel core 2 duo system - fairly future proof, dual core, fast as hell. something like:

* CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E6300, ~$170. You can OC the hell out of this CPU to get some amazing performance.
* Mobo: A 965P motherboard from a reputable manufacturer (Asus, Gigabyte, Abit, etc), ~$130. Most modern motherboards, esp. from decent manufacturers, come with solid on-board surround sound.
* Memory: 2x512MB DDR2-800 RAM from a reputable manufacturer (G-skill, Mushkin, etc), ~$110. RAM is very over-priced right now, so get 2x512MB today and 2x512MB more later when the prices drop a bit (just make sure the mobo has 4 memory slots).
Total: $410

That leaves you with about $200 to spend on a video card. This is probably the bare minimum you could spend to be in the "mid to high level of gameplay" and realistically, you'd want to spend around $250. Check out the VGA charts here and pick the card that gives you "acceptable" performance at the settings you'd be running. Here are some choices:

* nvidia 7900gs: $160, a good bargain, but probably slower than what you're looking for
* ATI x1950pro: $210, probably your best bet to stay around $600
* ATI x1950xt: $270, excellent performance, but probably out of your price range

 

[xitshsif]

Originally posted by: brikis98
* CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E6300, ~$170. You can OC the hell out of this CPU to get some amazing performance.
* Mobo: A 965P motherboard from a reputable manufacturer (Asus, Gigabyte, Abit, etc), ~$130. Most modern motherboards, esp. from decent manufacturers, come with solid on-board surround sound.
* Memory: 2x512MB DDR2-800 RAM from a reputable manufacturer (G-skill, Mushkin, etc), ~$110. RAM is very over-priced right now, so get 2x512MB today and 2x512MB more later when the prices drop a bit (just make sure the mobo has 4 memory slots).
Total: $410

Good stuff, but still needs a power supply, drives, and case. Would be tricky (read impossible) to do decent graphics if all that also needed to fit within $600. Not sure what OP has lying around or can loot from other machines.

However, I also think it's worth spending a little more and get something that'll last.

Excellent call on the RAM by the way, it's seriously ridiculous at the moment.

 

[NexLevel]

Thanks all!! This is awesome knowledge.

DaveSimmons -- to be clear, I don't need:

[*]Case
[*]PSU
[*]Hard Drives
[*]Optical Drives
[*]Key, Mouse, or Display

I have all that (and a new OEM XP Pro cd!) ... So, that's not part of the budget.

This ~$600 is VID, MOBO, MEM and CPU only. I will NOT skimp on the drives and PSU, but I don't need to worry about those now.



Brikis98: Thanks. I'm liking the Dual Core Idea. Sounds intriguing -- and I haven't overclocked anything seriously since the (and this will date me) the 300A days. Remember the 450 you could get out out this little puppy?!? Crazy times.

Thanks again

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: NexLevel
Thanks all!! This is awesome knowledge.

DaveSimmons -- to be clear, I don't need:

[*]Case
[*]PSU
[*]Hard Drives
[*]Optical Drives
[*]Key, Mouse, or Display

I have all that (and a new OEM XP Pro cd!) ... So, that's not part of the budget.

This ~$600 is VID, MOBO, MEM and CPU only. I will NOT skimp on the drives and PSU, but I don't need to worry about those now.



Brikis98: Thanks. I'm liking the Dual Core Idea. Sounds intriguing -- and I haven't overclocked anything seriously since the (and this will date me) the 300A days. Remember the 450 you could get out out this little puppy?!? Crazy times.

Thanks again

i highly recommend you OC the c2d, even with the stock cooling. check out this article to see the very impressive results that can be achieved by even the bargain E6300...

however, if you don't OC, you could save some money by going for ddr2-667 RAM and apply it towards the vid. card...

 

[xitshsif]

Originally posted by: NexLevel
to be clear, I don't need:
[*]Case
[*]PSU
[*]Hard Drives
[*]Optical Drives
[*]Key, Mouse, or Display

One thing to remember to keep an eye on is whether the PSU is beefy enough. The Core 2 Duo won't be using any more power than a P4, but higher end video cards do ask a lot from a PSU. As always, make sure your PSU is compatible with any motherboard you get.

 

[boomerang]

Originally posted by: brikis98
* Memory: 2x512MB DDR2-800 RAM from a reputable manufacturer (G-skill, Mushkin, etc), ~$110. RAM is very over-priced right now, so get 2x512MB today and 2x512MB more later when the prices drop a bit (just make sure the mobo has 4 memory slots).

Would he be better off getting a 1GB stick now and adding a 1GB later? I hate to see all four slots being used for a total of 2GB. I guess the question is, will dual-channel make that much of a difference? I'm asking for myself also.

 

[xitshsif]

Originally posted by: boomerang
Would he be better off getting a 1GB stick now and adding a 1GB later? I hate to see all four slots being used for a total of 1GB.

How do you figure? 2x512MB now + 2x512MB later = 4x512MB total. That's 4 sticks in 4 DIMMS for a total of 2GB.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Ah, I thought you meant you'd already decided -to buy- the drives, if you already have them it isn't a waste

For gaming this week, your best value for a low budget system would still be a single core A64 3700+ socket 939, A8N-E or similar, 1-2 GB DDR, and the rest towards the video card. This shaves about $100 from the CPU & mobo vs. Core 2.

For longer term, going over your budget a bit for core 2 will be worth it and give you much more useful life from the CPU.

I'm lazy and only run at stock speed (stable overclocking is too much work for me), so I'd get a 6400 or 6600 Core 2 and DDR2 533 or 667.

 

[xitshsif]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
For gaming this week, your best value for a low budget system would still be a single core A64 3700+ socket 939, A8N-E or similar, 1-2 GB DDR, and the rest towards the video card. This shaves about $100 from the CPU & mobo vs. Core 2.

For longer term, going over your budget a bit for core 2 will be worth it and give you much more useful life from the CPU.

While the A64 would run games decently, it can't touch the Core 2. Socket 939 also has zero room for expansion in the future.

I really suggest going with the Core 2. They do cost a bit more, but it's worth it. The motherboard should be able to be kept for future systems. Going dual core is always a bonus too. I built a system around the Core 2 Duo e6600 this summer and I have been blown away by its performance.

 

[fire400]

core 2 duo - 1.66 GHz = $200
motherboard - core 2 duo compatible = $100
1xGB DDR2 RAM = $100
x1900GT = $195 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102022

upgrade: RAM, motherboard, CPU cooler
intentions: more memory for games and better cooling solution on a 975 motherboard for maximum overclocking potential.
add: $200-400

 

[boomerang]

Originally posted by: xitshsif

Originally posted by: boomerang
Would he be better off getting a 1GB stick now and adding a 1GB later? I hate to see all four slots being used for a total of 1GB.

How do you figure? 2x512MB now + 2x512MB later = 4x512MB total. That's 4 sticks in 4 DIMMS for a total of 2GB.

I messed up and edited my above post. I meant 2GB. I'm just thinking of the future in case he wanted to bump up farther, say 4GB.

I still want to know about dual-channel. Better to go 1 stick for 1GB total now, or 2 sticks for 1GB total now. Keeping in mind slot availability.

Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Smartazz]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
At that budget level, 2 hard drives in RAID is a wasteful mis-allocation of scarce resources. Put that money into the video card.

For $600 I'd get a single-core socket 939 3700+ for around $90, cheap motherboard like Asus A8N-E, 1 GB DDR, cheap case + Fortron FSP PSU at about $50, and a 7900GS card.

You'd see a huge jump in performance and future-proofing by spending the extra (more like $1,000) to move to a Core 2 E6400 and 2GB DDR-2. See elventy billion other system threads for parts list.

Very good setup for $600.

 

[fire400]

Originally posted by: fire400
core 2 duo - 1.66 GHz = $200
motherboard - core 2 duo compatible = $100
1xGB DDR2 RAM = $100
x1900GT = $195 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102022

upgrade: RAM, motherboard, CPU cooler
intentions: more memory for games and better cooling solution on a 975 motherboard for maximum overclocking potential.
add: $200-400

I made up my mind. I think the 7900GT would be a better deal for 200 USD. The 1900GT does not outperform the 7900GT in many applications.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Don't be afraid to hit up the for sale/for trade forums for people selling old video cards when they upgrade to 8800 cards.

 

[Xarick]

Intel Core 2 Duo E6300 - 1.86GHz 1066FSB 2MB $183
Foxconn P9657AA-8KS2H - Intel P965 775 $99
PQI POWER Series 1GB (2 x 512GB) DDR2-533 4-4-4-12 $99
Powercolor X1950pro $209.99

Total $590.99 not including shipping from newegg.

 

[Childs]

I use a 7900GS and I have a good BF2/2142 experience at 1680x1050. Its cheap enough so that when next gen games come out I can get the 8800GS or 8600GT class cards for a decent price. The games you play are same ones I play, and everything is pretty good. Actually, the x800XL I was using was good too. I would go X2 as opposed to Core Duo simply because its cheaper when you buy the motherboard to go with it. If you have DDR memory you can go S939 and save some more. DaveSimmons recommended a good all around system.

 

[A1CSpence]

There's a really easy voltmod for the 7900GT. Do that and you've got $350 of GPU power for $200.

 

[JoPalm]

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: xitshsif

Originally posted by: boomerang
Would he be better off getting a 1GB stick now and adding a 1GB later? I hate to see all four slots being used for a total of 1GB.

How do you figure? 2x512MB now + 2x512MB later = 4x512MB total. That's 4 sticks in 4 DIMMS for a total of 2GB.

I messed up and edited my above post. I meant 2GB. I'm just thinking of the future in case he wanted to bump up farther, say 4GB.

I still want to know about dual-channel. Better to go 1 stick for 1GB total now, or 2 sticks for 1GB total now. Keeping in mind slot availability.

Sorry for the confusion.

Can someone answer this question? I'm curious to know as well. 1GB stick or 2x512MB stick for now then later on add another 1GB or 2x1GB?

What works better, 1GB + 2x1GB (in the future) or 2x512MB + 2x1GB (future).

 

[imported_RedStar]

for 600$? I am surprised no one has mentioned the obvious:


buy a PS3

 

[NexLevel]

Originally posted by: RedStar
buy a PS3

Hehe. I don't want to die. From : This Source

In fact, frustrations grew so large for disappointed punters that spates of violence erupted outside some stores with reports of fists thrown outside a Best Buy in Michigan, a Walmart store forced to close in Southern California, police being called to an outlet in New York, a spate of muggings, shots fired in (where else) Texas and gunman robbing a California store of its PS3 stock. I don?t remember reports like this in Japan?

Anyhow, I do have some more questions. I'm going to be researching these points which I'd really like answers for in order to make an intelligent decision about this system. Namely:

[*]Do games and the gaming experience actually benefit from dual-core systems? Dual core is nothing more than a dual-cpu setup, so if we regress back to the years gone by, can anyone definitively say that dual CPU systems actually improve gameplay? Are, in fact, games designed so that concurrent threads can run on different processors? Aren't all games designed so that the most demanding of calculations are handled by the graphics cpu with it's dedicated ASIC's and GPU's -- so that the traditional CPU has no requirement other than to shuffle commands and memory chunks to and fro? I really need to nail this down.

[*]Do modern games benefit from MORE THAN 1GB of RAM? In a well tuned system with 700MB of system physical RAM (not virtual) available to a game, will it actually need more than that? I can tune an XP system to deliver this kind of available RAM, and so I'm not really sure that any more than 1GB would be needed. Some may argue that having more than 1GB enables multi-tasking and the ability to keep many programs open and available. My counter to this is that I'm only gaming. I won't be burning DVD's, chatting with people, surfing the web and compiling custom PE discs while I'm fragging someone else. I'm just not that talented. So, I'm going to research this as well. The thing I may find is that dual-channel memory (2GB in a dual channel yields 1GB availble, correct? Dual channel setups are like RAID 0 - striped, right? Fast.

[*]Do mobo/vidcard combos yield performance benefits? In other words do I benefit from coupling an AMD/ATI/Radeon mobo-vidcard combo? What about GeForce? Are there GeForce/NVidia friendly setups? And I don't need (nor want) the SLI setup either.

Thanks all again. I appreciate the response I'm getting, and I'm quite sure I'm close to deciding.

 

[deadseasquirrel]

1) Do games benefit from dual-core?
Yes and no. The game has to be specifically coded to utilize more than one core. Some games have come out with such optimizations and the results have been mixed. Quake4 is perhaps the best example of this. At 1280x1024, there is a 30%+ increase in performance for a dual-core setup over an equally-clocked single-core. However, at 1600x1200, that benefit drops to nothing. In the future, more games will come out with these optimizations. However, I don't see these optimizations ever helping much at a resolution like 1600x1200.

2) Games and 2GB of ram.
Oblivion, BF2, Gothic3, and Dark Messiah are a few of the games I play that utilize well over 1GB of ram. Since BF is near and dear to you, I'd recommend 2GB if you can. And, while I would hate to see you steal money from the video card budget, I have to admit that I had a high-end setup with 1GB ram and BF2 was choppy at 1600x1200. I upgraded to 2GB and that went away. A faster video card wouldn't have helped in that situation.

3) Mobo/video combos.
No real performance difference. Features such as overclockability, stability, and price are much more important.

I'm torn on recommending the cheaper AMD setup or the little-bit-more C2D setup. You obviously don't build a new system too often. Maybe an easily-upgradeable setup is your best option. C2D fits that well. I'm going to point out that a big part of my opinion is going to focus on whether you plan to play at 1280x1024 or 1600x1200. At the lower res, the C2D is going to be a better option. But at 1600x1200, you're going to notice little-to-no difference between a C2D system or an "old" AMD system. The cards you're looking at might struggle with new and future games at 16x12.