best Hardware Firewall?

[azev]

Man, I cant believe a simple question about firewall turned into thug of war

 

[mboy]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: mboy
Talk about puckered A$$hole$. AND who made u the master of defining hardware? Guess no one because u need help picking ram for a Dell server!
Do you even know the difference between ROUTING and filtering? Guess not. Your career as a network admin was over before it started. (and server admin to boot).

Wow, talk about a jerkoff with no life. Stalk much? Would you like to dig through my garbage? I can send you my old underwear so you can sniff it, you freak.

10k + posts on a an internet forum and I have no life? Stick to Nefing in th off topic posts since you really cant provide
any useful input here.

 

[Johnbear007]

this thread has gotten seriously retarded.

 

[Regs]

Originally posted by: Johnbear007
this thread has gotten seriously retarded.

Seems like it.

 

[thorin]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
Thorin

5th reply to this thread. By you. In big CAPITAL LETTERS! You got rather upset at the notion that somebody was trying to pass off a home broadband router as having firewall capabilities. Who's bitchy?

Yawn (Everyone else understood my use of caps .... when you can addres our point(s) let us know or not ... either way this thread is basically over the guy has his answer)

Thorin

 

[Tab]

And no one really answered my smoothwall question
How hard is it to setup a dedicated smoothwall? I have lots of general computing experince but not that much networking.

 

[Dug]

mmm...
So for $20 I have a Router that can-

Allow and deny IP ranges
IP filters
Mac filters
URL and domain filters
Set up individual firewall configurations manually
All can be configured on a schedule for any time and date

It logs
System activity
Debug info
Attacks
Dropped packets
and can all be emailed to me if I want.

Block wan pings
VPN logging and blocking
virtual server setup with an IP outside the rest of my internal netowork.

web based configuration
remote management

All for $20, I don't see much reason to spend money on a firewall for a home user.
I thought all routers did this, at least my last two have.

 

[mboy]

Originally posted by: Dug
mmm...
So for $20 I have a Router that can-

Allow and deny IP ranges
IP filters
Mac filters
URL and domain filters
Set up individual firewall configurations manually
All can be configured on a schedule for any time and date

It logs
System activity
Debug info
Attacks
Dropped packets
and can all be emailed to me if I want.

Block wan pings
VPN logging and blocking
virtual server setup with an IP outside the rest of my internal netowork.

web based configuration
remote management

All for $20, I don't see much reason to spend money on a firewall for a home user.
I thought all routers did this, at least my last two have.

Which one do you have for $20?

 

[Dug]

D-Link 604

 

[socalvvguy]

Originally posted by: desy
Not interested in SW based one I don't see how they could be as good as a HW one and if you have a updated Virus product its kind of redundant isn't it?
I've seen Sonicwall but $$
So who makes a good one thats good for home use?
I've got soooo many staff who have come to me since high speed has hit the sticks out here with monthly virus crashes they are starting to suck up all my time for none work related issues!!

You may want to look at some of the D-Link Products: Here is a link to a Firewall/router combo price around $330. Here's a link to Firewall only Device price around $300. Both devices have 4 ports. I use the DI-614+ wireless router (has limited firewall protection in addition to NAT) with ZoneAlarm on my home system.

While these devices will do what you want, the next BIG issue is WHO will program and set these devices up. The average home user is not technically inclined enough (IMHO) to program and set up these type of devices. The firewall will not prevent all virus attacks.

 

[Regs]

Originally posted by: mboy

Originally posted by: Dulanic

Originally posted by: desy
Not interested in SW based one I don't see how they could be as good as a HW one and if you have a updated Virus product its kind of redundant isn't it?
I've seen Sonicwall but $$
So who makes a good one thats good for home use?
I've got soooo many staff who have come to me since high speed has hit the sticks out here with monthly virus crashes they are starting to suck up all my time for none work related issues!!

Software is as good or better IMO... reason being a software one will tell you exactly what programs are trying to access something etc...

Disagree. I can shut down a software based firewall with a 1 line batch script. Try shutting down my sonicwall.

I don't get that logic. A hardware based firewall... that's just a computer with only one purpose and that is to serve as a firewall. How is a computer with firewall software any different then a separate piece of hardware with firewall software like a Lynksys router?

That's all a firewall is, software on hardware. Hardware is useless without software or some type of programming. Just like a video card without HDL . If you can disable a firewall on a computer then you can damn sure disable one on a router or other related equipment.

 

[thorin]

Originally posted by: Regs

Originally posted by: mboy

Originally posted by: Dulanic

Originally posted by: desy
Not interested in SW based one I don't see how they could be as good as a HW one and if you have a updated Virus product its kind of redundant isn't it?
I've seen Sonicwall but $$
So who makes a good one thats good for home use?
I've got soooo many staff who have come to me since high speed has hit the sticks out here with monthly virus crashes they are starting to suck up all my time for none work related issues!!

Software is as good or better IMO... reason being a software one will tell you exactly what programs are trying to access something etc...

Disagree. I can shut down a software based firewall with a 1 line batch script. Try shutting down my sonicwall.

I don't get that logic. A hardware based firewall... that's just a computer with only one purpose and that is to serve as a firewall. How is a computer with firewall software any different then a separate piece of hardware with firewall software like a Lynksys router?

That's all a firewall is, software on hardware. Hardware is useless without software or some type of programming. Just like a video card without HDL . If you can disable a firewall on a computer then you can damn sure disable one on a router or other related equipment.

True but it is much much much harder to gain access to a HW FW to shut it's software (firmware) down (which would likely actually cause it to crash and go offline which would be next to useless to an intruder/attacker) then it is to gain access to a Winblows box with a trojan or other vulnerability and shutdown a SW FW that might be running. Plus by the time I get in to shutdown a SW FW I'm "standing in the living room" whereas with a HW FW if I get to shutdown it's software then I'm still standing at the door.

Thorin

PS > I know I have way too many thoughts muddled in there but I'm pissed off at some accountants and a ERP system and don't have time to clarify.....do yer best reading/interpretting it......

 

[Need4Speed]

Originally posted by: Regs

Originally posted by: mboy

Originally posted by: Dulanic

Originally posted by: desy
Not interested in SW based one I don't see how they could be as good as a HW one and if you have a updated Virus product its kind of redundant isn't it?
I've seen Sonicwall but $$
So who makes a good one thats good for home use?
I've got soooo many staff who have come to me since high speed has hit the sticks out here with monthly virus crashes they are starting to suck up all my time for none work related issues!!

Software is as good or better IMO... reason being a software one will tell you exactly what programs are trying to access something etc...

Disagree. I can shut down a software based firewall with a 1 line batch script. Try shutting down my sonicwall.

I don't get that logic. A hardware based firewall... that's just a computer with only one purpose and that is to serve as a firewall. How is a computer with firewall software any different then a separate piece of hardware with firewall software like a Lynksys router?

That's all a firewall is, software on hardware. Hardware is useless without software or some type of programming. Just like a video card without HDL . If you can disable a firewall on a computer then you can damn sure disable one on a router or other related equipment.

furhtermore, with a software firewall, any harmful packets have already entered the nic on the machine they are trying to protect...a hardware firewall will isolate the entire network

 

[mboy]

Originally posted by: Regs

Originally posted by: mboy

Originally posted by: Dulanic

Originally posted by: desy
Not interested in SW based one I don't see how they could be as good as a HW one and if you have a updated Virus product its kind of redundant isn't it?
I've seen Sonicwall but $$
So who makes a good one thats good for home use?
I've got soooo many staff who have come to me since high speed has hit the sticks out here with monthly virus crashes they are starting to suck up all my time for none work related issues!!

Software is as good or better IMO... reason being a software one will tell you exactly what programs are trying to access something etc...

Disagree. I can shut down a software based firewall with a 1 line batch script. Try shutting down my sonicwall.

I don't get that logic. A hardware based firewall... that's just a computer with only one purpose and that is to serve as a firewall. How is a computer with firewall software any different then a separate piece of hardware with firewall software like a Lynksys router?

That's all a firewall is, software on hardware. Hardware is useless without software or some type of programming. Just like a video card without HDL . If you can disable a firewall on a computer then you can damn sure disable one on a router or other related equipment.

Please go back and re-read my post. I said SW firewall like ZA which runs ON TOP of an OS. This is much different then a PC running smoothwall (or a BSD box) that is dedicated to being a firewall only and has the FW as part of a hardened OS (like Smoothwall) as opposed to ZOnealarm or norton Personal firewall running as a service on top of windows. Thats is quite a bit different then a dedicated box, whether it be a pix, sonicwall, or a newer linksys with an SPI firewall integrated or a NIX box acting as a FW only ( read no ohter service running like sendmail,apache,etc.

 

[azev]

Firewall that run on top of OS will not be as good as a dedicated firewall. I think this is a valid argument.
Lets compare this on a different topic, "file serving", I've read that someone had tested a nas device with win2k optimized for file serving compared to similar build system with win2k. The result, the nas device yield higher score because it is build for the sole purpose of file serving. Another example; A long time ago there was an article about comparing a computer as a router and a cisco router. The computer had dual pentum III 1ghz or something, and 1 gig ram, and 10k drives 2 nic; while cisco 2600 router only had a much slower processor and only 64MB memory. But nevertheless Cisco router yield higher score because it was build for the sole purpose of routing package. I am sure this consept can be applied to hardware firewall. While there are a ways to optimize your computer for routing/firewalling, and there are high end firewall software such as MS Internet Security and Accelerations server, I still think that many admins will prefer the hardware firewall, and software firewall as secondary firewall. Another thing with pc running firewall software is that in pc there are much more parts that can fail anytime.

 

[Tab]

Is it safe to say smoothwall running on a dedicated computer is better than Zone Alarm Pro?

 

[mboy]

Originally posted by: Tabb
Is it safe to say smoothwall running on a dedicated computer is better than Zone Alarm Pro?

Yes by a lot. The only advantage ZA may have over it is that it will alert u to outgoing packets at the application level (will alert u a program is trying to get out). A hardware based firewall (and smmothwall, clarkconnect,etc), won't as they do not run at the application ( I do not believe they do), but if you deny all out bound and only allow those ports that are needed (80,25,443,etc) then you arer pretty darn secure.

 

[Need4Speed]

Originally posted by: Tabb
Is it safe to say smoothwall running on a dedicated computer is better than Zone Alarm Pro?

without a doubt.

 

[Forever]

Good HW firewalls at a good price ZyWall

 

[sciencewhiz]

Originally posted by: Tabb
Is it safe to say smoothwall running on a dedicated computer is better than Zone Alarm Pro?

only if smoothwall is configured properly. Allow ALL from ALL is much worse then zonealarm pro, properly configured.