Best Low Profile Card?

[DamnDirtyApe]

I recently put together a new system, which acts as a combined HTPC and everyday machine and is connected to both a LCD HDTV and LCD Monitor. I'm currently using the integrated video on the Asus P5Q-EM to output to both displays, but the IGP is pretty terrible for gaming (duh) so I'm looking to add in a discrete card.

The case has only low-profile slots, so I'm pretty limited in terms of my options. I'm also pretty much limited to ATi products as the 'theatre mode' is necessary for my setup.

I see there are a few low profile options out there, like the 4350 and 4550 but the performance is pretty lacking. I see on Newegg that there are 3450 and 3650 low profile cards (like this Sapphire card), but I don't know enough about the different GPUs to know which one would be best for gaming.

Any advice?

 

[AVP]

You will want to go with this I think - 9600gt It is probably the best low profile card you could get.

 

[DamnDirtyApe]

That looks like a good card, but it doesn't look like it has dual display capability. I am also really leaning towards ATi cards because of the better dual-display support.

 

[AVP]

I am assuming the 4550 is going to be better than the 34 and 3650. You aren't going to find much gaming performance out of a low-profile card. You might be better off buying a larger case for $50, sorry don't know what else to suggest

 

[Halfling85]

4550 is not faster than the 3650... I did a ton of research on this one because I recently found myself with a computer with a low profile case for the first time. I built the pc myself and need a slim tower case. Was using onboard graphics which were aweful so I decided to get a low profile card for gaming.

Did alot of research and as mentioned above at the present time the 9600gt is definitely the best low profile card available. However it was out of my price range (ridiculously tight budget at the moment) and so I had to look for the next quickest card which happened to come in ATI flavors... Which is what you mentioned you were looking for.

I did a ton of research because I initially thought that the 4550 low profile would be much faster than the 3650 but it is actually the other way around.... like big time! The 4550 is at times about half of the speed of the 3650. Newegg no longer sells the 3650 low profile (stopped selling it like a day before i decided to buy it lol..) So I had to google another vendor in order to buy the card.

I know the card says minimum spec of 300 watt power supply but I am running it without a hitch on a 275 watt supply right now. Of course I have an Athlon X2 5200 which is only pulling 65 watts, only one hard drive, one dvd burner, and two case fans pulling power. If you have another hardrive or a processor which is pulling more juice the minimum power requirement might apply... That was my issue with the 9600GT as well because it required a minimum of 400watts i believe and I definitly didn't have the $$$ to upgrade my PSU as well.

Anyhow I got a Sapphire Low profile ATI HD 3650 512 meg video card and it kicks butt for how cheap it was. This is the fastest low profile ATI card you can purchase at the moment (if you can find it). DO NOT GET THE 4550, it's big fault is it only has a 64-bit memory bus as opposed to a 128 bit bus in the 3650, THIS MAKES A SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE IN PERFORMANCE between the two. So get the 3650 or hold out for a while and see if they make a low profile 4650 with a 128 bit bus if you must get an ATI card.

Tom's hardward btw has a beautiful breakdown on all of the graphics cards which are currently offered (almost up to date). The 3650 is about half speed of what a low profile 9600gt is though, so if you can get NVIDIA and you have the PSU to support it, that is definitely the fastest low profile solution. But if you are stuck ATI get the 3650...

PS - it also has HDMI out, but I haven't messed with that so I can't tell you how well it works...

Just for some ideas on Games, i haven't checked the framerate but I game at 1440x900 and Bioshock runs smoothly in DX9 mode (unstable in DX10 but that is the fault of the crappy game programming not the card...) at max settings.

Also I run Overlord: Raising Hell which is fairly graphically intense and it runs pretty smoothly maxed out at that resolution.

I am also a big fan of Oblivion and I have been EXTREMELY pleased with it. Max Settings at that resuloion with 16x Anisotropic Filtering turned on in ATI control panel (makes the textures look gorgeous) and HDR turned on in game (graphics card intensive specs) however no anti-aliasing. All Draw and View distances set to MAX. All that to say the game looks amazing, especially with HDR turned on and runs fairly smoothly (small hiccups every now and then, hardly noticable and i think I just need to tweak the game a bit and it's not actually the graphics card causing the hiccups).

I have been very please, I am not expecting to whip Crysis out on this or anything but as far as last generation games go, this card does a pretty awesome job. The 9600gt is still twice as quick, but if you must go low-profile ATI, at the moment nothing is faster than a 3650...


Here is a decent benchmark showing some of the differences i talked about above...
http://www.pcgameshardware.com..._4550_reviewed/?page=6

 

[Selbatrim]

I have been searching for an ATI low profile card for the last few months and cannot believe that no-one has released anything besides the 4550. Virtually every review of the 4670 has a post or two about people running to the shops to buy a low profile version when released.

I know that is true for me. I know the Galaxy 9600gt is the fastest low profile out there at the moment but my last gfx card was an nVidia and it died so I'm returning to ATI and staying there. So please, don't disregard those of us who like smaller computers! Give us a viable ATI option.

Currently I use a 780g motherboard with sideport memory and have overclocked the GPU making me able to play half life 2 at 1440 x 900 with some eyecandy enabled but I don't dare install Oblivion

Go the 3650 if you can't wait or keep posting requests to the graphic card manufacturers to release a 4670. Hey ATI, how about winning the low profile performance crown? Sure to at least make a headline right?

 

[Zap]

What is it about this thread that brings in first posters?

Welcome to the forums, Hafling85 and Selbatrim.

Regarding the Radeon 4550... it looks as if that fills the lowest end card of the Radeon 4000 series, like the 3450/2400/x1300/x300 before it. In comparison to a 3650, it loses due to half the memory bandwidth, 2/3 the shader ALUs and 125MHz lower core speed.

A couple years ago I tried to make a slim gaming rig... and failed. Best video card I could find at the time that was low profile was a Radeon x1650 Pro with a crippled 64 bit memory interface (versus 128 bit for "normal" Pros). These days any cheap Radeon 4550 or Geforce 9400 GT is faster, though games are tougher on cards too.

 

[Selbatrim]

Hi Zap.

Thanks for the welcome I might be holding out too much hope that hardware manufacturers will at some point realise that there is a market for those of us that don't want gaming laptops and also want small computers with a bit of grunt.

I owned an XPS M170 where the nVidia 7800 go GTX died (very similar to the heat problems of the 8xxx cards). I therefore reached the conclusion that laptops are for portability and desktops are for the rest. As with me I'm sure many gamers have grown up and got wives that demand small computers with minimal eyesore factor.

I believe I have managed that. Even got a 9850BE running in it. But I'll be damned before I stick an nVidia gfx card in a pc willingly

I'm hoping someone will come up with a low profile 4670 at CES

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: Zap
What is it about this thread that brings in first posters?

Welcome to the forums, Hafling85 and Selbatrim.

Regarding the Radeon 4550... it looks as if that fills the lowest end card of the Radeon 4000 series, like the 3450/2400/x1300/x300 before it. In comparison to a 3650, it loses due to half the memory bandwidth, 2/3 the shader ALUs and 125MHz lower core speed.

A couple years ago I tried to make a slim gaming rig... and failed. Best video card I could find at the time that was low profile was a Radeon x1650 Pro with a crippled 64 bit memory interface (versus 128 bit for "normal" Pros). These days any cheap Radeon 4550 or Geforce 9400 GT is faster, though games are tougher on cards too.

I think this is to much work for most...but the best way to make a slim gaming rig IMO would be to buy a PCI-E angle riser or a PCI-E cable bus extender, mod the case and install a full size card on its side.

 

[Selbatrim]

Maybe it is too much work, but if Galaxy can create a 9600GT then surely someone can release a similar ATI card.

I suppose nothing will happen before the 4xxx series hits laptops. Then it should be a fairly straightforward affair to create a low profile card. Just checked on the AMD/ATI website and was surprised to not see any 4xxx mobility processors listed.

Come on AMD. My birthday is just around the corner Xmas break is over now... work work work!

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: PingSpike
I think this is to much work for most...but the best way to make a slim gaming rig IMO would be to buy a PCI-E angle riser or a PCI-E cable bus extender, mod the case and install a full size card on its side.

That's a good idea, though a slim case would still have the problem of not being able to hold a PSU powerful enough for a high end video card.

There are slimline cases that can hold normal video cards. Okay, not super slim, but slim enough for most. I've got a similar case with a Seasonic 350W SFX power supply (26A +12v) and I can run a GTX 260 in it.

 

[Selbatrim]

I'd find it tricky to mod my case though and I am unsure whether a riser will work and outside the case is gonna be a nono Got a Minuet 350 which has a 350 80+ PSU. I'd buy the 9600GT but... dead gfx card too fresh in my memory. Pretty sure something will pop up in the next 1-2 months.

So Zap, you got the 260 running at the moment? What dimensions are your case and what other hardware have you got?

Personally I run a 9850BE (@stock speed + undervolted) on a Gigabyte 780g mobo (overclocked onboard gfx) with 4 GB 1066 ram and 2 x 500gb Spinpoints in raid 0.

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: Zap

Originally posted by: PingSpike
I think this is to much work for most...but the best way to make a slim gaming rig IMO would be to buy a PCI-E angle riser or a PCI-E cable bus extender, mod the case and install a full size card on its side.

That's a good idea, though a slim case would still have the problem of not being able to hold a PSU powerful enough for a high end video card.

There are slimline cases that can hold normal video cards. Okay, not super slim, but slim enough for most. I've got a similar case with a Seasonic 350W SFX power supply (26A +12v) and I can run a GTX 260 in it.

I basically stole the idea from an old case mod project some one had on ocforums. They built a gaming rig and fit it into a suitcase, mounted a LCD on the back and had a keyboard that sat over the components. Basically a ugly fatty laptop built out of desktop components. Turning the video card was his cool idea to reduce depth...he actually used a soldering iron and another torn apart motherboard to manually build an AGP bus extension cable. He said it took him forever and he didn't really know if it was going to work once it was done! They make PCI-E cables and probably bus riser cards though if you aren't that involved. I suppose its kind of obvious though since a lot of old consumer junk PCs used to use Bus riser cards to remain somewhat thin.

Yeah, the PSU is another issue I suppose, but there are a good number of more power efficient midrange cards these days. Plus, there has to be at least one (likely expensive) PSU available for slim cases? Or...more modding for a full size PSU!

I think I've looked at that case awhile back. I had some idea about creating a classic emulation, stepmania and other media kind of machine for my living room that wasn't to much of an eyesore. I wasn't really serious about it though so I never took the plunge.

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: Selbatrim
So Zap, you got the 260 running at the moment? What dimensions are your case and what other hardware have you got?

I had it running for a bit, but right now it has a 9600 GSO in it while the GTX 260 does duty elsewhere.

Case is basically exactly like what I linked, except made out of aluminum. It was a rare item made BITD by A+GPB (which became Athena Power). The case is 13.5" tall, 5.75" wide and 14.5" from front to back. I was planning to keep the front fascia off to take an inch off the 14.5".

Motherboard is a Gigabyte G31 chipset
CPU is an E8500
4GB Kingston RAM
160GB Seagate SATA HDD
slot load notebook optical drive with adaptor (either Lite-On or Pioneer, forgot which)
Seasonic 350W SFX PSU
BFG GTX 260.

 

[Halfling85]

I am still enjoying my 3650, and it is running on a 280 watt psu. I can run Unreal Tourney 3 full graphics which makes me happy : )...

 

[Selbatrim]

Well, I've just realised something rather nice. The fact that hybrid crossfire now works on Windows XP. So, that opens up the door for the 3450 and 3650 low profile cards. Teamed with the 780g I should have something that approximates moderate gaming and I don't need to shell out $$$ to Nvidia. I will be testing it with a 2400 pro that's lying around to at least show me if the drivers are mature enough to give me a bit of a performance boost.

Will post my findings next week hopefully.

I might be a happy chappy this weekend

 

[Selbatrim]

Don't have the exact numbers but overclocked 780G with sideport memory in hybrid crossfire with a oem 2400pro scored over 3100 3dmark06 (1280x1024 standard settings). Fairly happy with this. Couldn't overclock the 2400pro though which might have added a bit more.

Was able to at least play Fallout 3 (some people may say not really as it was 1024x768 with fairly low settings). Anyone able to post any better results with a 3450 in hybrid crossfire?

Ok, come on ATI partners. Low profile 4670 NOW or I'm going to have to go to the Galaxy 9600 low profile...

 

[Selbatrim]

Ooh. Powercolor has released a 4650 low profile card: http://www.powercolor.com/eng/...res.asp?ProductID=5217

Took my threat seriously then... Nearly a 4670 and might just do!

 

[BlueAcolyte]

Boooooo, GDDR2! Cmon, GDDR3 would mean it was perfect.

 

[yh125d]

Low-profile 9800GT, with DVI out and HDMI out!

 

[footballrunner800]

Originally posted by: yh125d
Low-profile 9800GT, with DVI out and HDMI out!

wow that has to be 55nm to keep cool.

 

[yh125d]

I imagine it runs pretty hot, yes

 

[Selbatrim]

Yeah, I know that Nvidia has the better low profile cards (for now) but it'll take a while before I shell out cash for a Nvidia card. Damn 7800 gtx died (not overclocked in any way) 2 months out of warranty.

I agree BlueAcolyto that it blows that the Powercolor uses DDR2. If it was a 4670 I'd have ordered it for sure. Might still do it as I am using a 350w psu and I think the 4650 will do quite well on a 1440x900 monitor. Especially is it's overclocked a little And it should cost a fair bit less than the 9800.

 

[bluemax]

It's been a while since I've visited Anandtech, but this topic is hot for me.

It seems the best low-profile cards available are the Sparkle 9600GT and 9800GT cards on Newegg. The 9600GT isn't too bad for power draw....

The Galaxy GFE2 card was a Dustbuster(tm)! The fan was unbearably loud!!


I would dearly love to see some of these new Radeon 46xx cards in low-profile... it's almost "just what they were made for"... Low-power, cool-running, good-performing cards that just BEG to be made into HTPCs, etc.

I've found ONE 4650 low profile so far... the 9600GT outperforms is but consumes more power. I'd like to see more 46xx cards on the market....

... I wanna' totally max out my Dell C521. I love this thing to death!

 

[Selbatrim]

Sad to say my hybrid crossfire venture actually failed for Fallout 3. Unsure of the reason and too old to bother trying to figure it out. So that's the bad news and the good news is that the overclocked 780G (onboard) is what was managing to play it in 1024 x 768 all on it's lonesome. Good boy 780G.

I have pre-ordered the low profile Powercolor 4650 and now agonizing over the fact that it will not arrive for another week. I shall gladly post my findings both on fan noise and performance when I get my grubby hands on it.

I hate waiting...