Best martial art?

[apoppin]

Personally, I think any of the top Gracies would destroy Tyson in a stree fight.

 

[DesignDawg]

We DO need to lighten up. Did my Qi Gong post require a smilie? I'll go back and add one in. Again, I ASSUMED that any post where I call something "pull a bus with your dick" should automatically be construed as a joke.

Ricky
DesignDawg

 

[thebestMAX]

Sorry, DD

Thought you sounded a little "testy" there.

My bad

 

[Daniel]

Hehe BenSkywalker, a q3 reference, funny just the last thing I thought I would find in this thread

 

[StageLeft]

benskywalker

The thing I definitely agree with is that there are no "dirty moves" in a fight - do what you can to win, damn the "rules"!

I still think that although Tyson may be a fighter first, and boxer after he still lacks the concentrated, rounded, and balanced combat training that the other people have used. I mean who is to say that a Gracie, in real life, wouldn't bite your neck once you're on the ground? I suppose we'll never know...tyson is very strong and intimidating and due to his gorilla-like intelligence probabaly just ignores pain...

I see some of your points of course and I don't know how grappling would be between two people intent on killing each other, but I still think that Tyson has spent far too much of his life honing his boxing skills whereas these other people have made it their mission to be the best _fighter_ not the best _boxer_, and experience alone would give them an excellent advantage in that area. Tyson draws training from his coach and boxing in general whereas somebody like Gracie draws his from a school of people who have literally studied the best possible combat for them, not just boxing. THere may be a better martial art than jiu jitsu but my point is that the best person is one who is multi-skilled and takes the best from all areas...Tyson may be a scrapper but his primary skills are in boxing. He certainly would not be able to throw a proper kick (compared to UFC guys, for instance) nor defend against it either. He'd probabaly end up getting his thigh kicked apart because he could not do anything...and then if he came in close and was not lucky enough to break somebody's head apart with his first punch he'd find himself on the ground.

 

[Daniel]

My only real problem with jujitsu is that when you are on the ground trying whatever there are his 2 buddies are kicking you in the head. I mean it seems that alot of jujitsu people just want to go right to the ground, like immediately which isn't always the best option. My gf does a form of jujitsu that is very much based on flipping and stuff, she enjoys it cause it's fun but not very realistic. And like what was said earlier, the best for you might not be the best for others surely aren't going to be the same thing, and it depends on really what you are trying to get out of it.

 

[Rogue]

I don't know about you, but the last guy that bit me in a high school wrestling match years ago got a choke hold like no other put on his sorry ass!!! Just because a grappler gets bit or gouged by someone does not mean they are going to let up and quit their holds. If I got someone on the ground and they resort to that sh!t, they are gonna get a hell of a lot worse. I'm sorry, I will endure the bite or gouge just to smash someone's goddam windpipe and guaranteed if I am in control, that's what's gonna happen. Considering that my opponent is resorting to such tactics, it's damn near guaranteed that I'm in control of the situation already. It's not gonna take me a whole lot to finish him off. These arguments are just as bad as politics and religion. Especially in a forum full of young males with ego problems (me included!).

 

[StageLeft]

Daniel

Agreed that jiu jitsu kinda sucks for more than one person, but lets be truthful here - how realistic is it for anybody to take on two people at once anyway? Apart from the fact that most fights will be one on one, even if you are up against 2 people you're going to have to be a goddamned ninja to take them both out unless they suck at fighting, so why really bother? Unless you can dispatch one very quickly with 1-2 hits its pretty well gonna be game over for you unless they are grossly incompetent.

rogue Thats true to an extent, but woudln't be if the guy had his finger half-way into your eye socket

 

[Daniel]

What I was referring to isn't as much as fighting multiple people at once but more like this .... let's take a situation of a bar fight or something in a crowded place. Do you really want to go to the ground and try to tie some guy up around 200 people, and there is always some little prick that will want to take shots on people when you are down, not your buddy, not your opponents buddy but just someone unrelated. It may sound stupid but it is a very realistic theory. Think back to grade school or high school, farther or closer for some of us, in the school yard or hallway, what was the first thing you heard when a fight broke out, FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, yelling everywhere and all of the people start running there and crowding around, same thing happens as adults, not the exact same thing but it's pretty close. People are lured in by their curiosity, I do know ground fighting but in the off chance that I got attacked I would sure as heck want to stay standing than instantly shoot for the legs and get into mad wrestling with someone. Again all this is just my opinion.

 

[astroview]

Rogue: I Didn't mean to start a huge argument, I just wanted people's opinions. I'd say that any topic is bad to discuss for a group of aggressive young men.

 

[Daniel]

I wouldn't say it's a huge arguement at all, its a debate, nothing serious.

 

[StageLeft]

Its no arguement from here either

daniel

Thats right, but really you can't be prepared for all possible encounters unless you know all the martial arts...say you practice striking so that that doesn't happen, well then you've countered the bar problem but then meeting some guy in the alley grappling may be the way to go it, so certainly no one style is the best one at all times.

 

[BenSkywalker]

Skorb-

"and then if he came in close and was not lucky enough to break somebody's head apart with his first punch he'd find himself on the ground."

I think he would land that punch Guess that summarizes our disagreement on that point. Tyson will bull in and doesn't need much room to land a hit, and a barefisted hit from him will drop anyone(same can be said about pretty much any pro heavywight boxer).

Rogue-

Collapsing the windpipe is also not allowed, that was one of the other defenses against grappling I brought up. If you have enough strength in your fingers(what do you think all those push ups on one finger are for) you can build up enough to crush someone's throat if you can simply reach it, this isn't allowed in UFC. Of course, there is also the burying the finger into the eye up to the second knuckle and also, where you bite is as important as the fact that you will. It is just like using pressure points, different points for biting depending on the desired result. Many forms of martial arts were based on copying the methods used by animals, biting isn't outside that scope.

If someone bit you in a *wrestling* match, that is complete BS and he should pay a price. You prepare your defenses based on the match you are in. Boxers don't worry about someone kicking them in the head, and if someone does something such as that in a boxing match they should be dealt with and harshly.

My comments are entirely based on a combat situation, a mugger attacking you, a punk trying to jump you and the likes. Fighting for sport is something I'm not interested in any longer(I no longer study TKD).

"These arguments are just as bad as politics and religion. Especially in a forum full of young males with ego problems (me included!)."

Young, gee thanks I'm not arguing anything about what *I* could do to anyone else, I am discussing the techniques utilized by others. I will use reference to my own training/experiences if they are relevant but only if they help me explain my point.

I would be more then happy to live out the rest of my days without ever taking part in any violence(well, maybe a football game here or there).

 

[Daniel]

True, you really can't ever be prepared for everything, I mean you can be Jet Li and someone can wail you in the back of the head as you walk down the street, not a thing you can do about it. I would imagine most people do it for more than just the reason of self defense though, be it competition, fitness, stress relief or whatever they choose to look for in the arts.

 

[BenSkywalker]

Arrg...

Got disconnected and wasn't sure if my Reply submitted or not.. DP

 

[Rogue]

Skoorb, agreed. You have to protect yourself from this too though. It's easier said than done, always, but it's something you learn. Keep your head tucked and lock up their arms fast. If you take 'em down face first, which is always preferred, they are even less of a residual threat unless they are some kind of wicked double-jointed or something.

astroview, I was not trying to start an argument either, I've just participated in several of these threads before and they all turn into a "I know this and I can beat your ass!" and "Yeah, well Ken Shamrock is my dad and he can beat up your dad!" blah, blah, blah. I agree, you asked a simple question and got a few objective answers. Mostly though, it's been, this person can beat up that person, etc. BTW, if you want to become extremely physically fit and learn a lot of self-defense and gain strength at the same time, try out wrestling. I don't know how old you are, but your local college may have an intramural program or even hit up your local high school (if you're not still in high school already) and see if they will let you practice with them.

 

[JaiKnight]

Late post, just read the thread and had to comment on the Indiana Jones bit, boy that brings back memories
I've taken Jiu Jitsu and TKD, like them both for a workout, but like my sensei said the first class: "Never get into a fight if you don't have to"

 

[MustangSVT]

now with all these talk... im starting to agree that "big-mann-smak" is the best .

first of all this question was dumb.

it needs to be more specific.

then again this board is "off topic" forum with posts like "ask me any pokemon quesiont..."

sigh.

 

[eia430]

designdog, you said...

"I don't know how ANYONE could take himself seriously! Hahaha. Dude, if you said that to me face-to-face....unless you are some SUPERSTAR Asian dude wearing an all-black evil-badass looking gi, with a big long pony tail, speaking with your lips out of sync with a badly-dubbed voiceover, I think I would only stop laughing for long enough to turn around and leave you standing there embarrassed that you ever said that! Hehehe. My demise.... Much too late.... Hehehe."

I thought you were serious aboutthat bigmansmak thing... it was your second post on the matter and I simply felt that it would not be right to let an arrogant post go unanswered. Now that I know you were not serious, I do feel bad about jumping on you for misguided reasons.

Now to explain myself... what I meant by your demise is to kill a person. When there is no other option, such as you are threatening my family and law enforcement will not do anything about it because they are afraid to or because you simply have a "buddy judge". This situation is unfortunatly still found in some countries out there. If there was no other alternative but to end your life to protect my loved ones then it must be done. It will not be a "bigmansmak" confrontation that you previous posts led on that you thought would be an end all and be all. The point I was making was that bigmansmak can easily be dealt with and to think that size is everything in a war is extremely faulty thinking. I would not have met you in some back ally wearing a badass gi and a long pony tail, that's "bigmansmak" mentality. The method of your demise will be the one that requires the least effort and poses the fewest risks to me. It will be decided after weeks if not months of studying your life and your patterns. Bigmansmak mentality just gives more options and makes you more vulnrable.

Since you were not serious this post is actualy quite pointless. I was just not going to let some jerk get away with crap talk like that without a response. I'm open to dropping this subject since you were not serious and thinking you were was a mistake on my part.

 

[MustangSVT]

dang it you just "big-man-smak" ed yourself, drop it already. and your point doesnt make much sense now that u talk about studying his life style for months?! huh?? Please Tell us what Martial Arts you have learned and to what degree? sounds more like you are interested in terrorism. drop it, he was just joking, and knowing he was joking you post that? .... errr

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

TKD is great if you go to a good school. I do.

You know, it's really too bad that many people are all bashing TKD here. If you've ever seen a good TKD fighter who's been trained at a good school, then you wouldn't be so critical.

U.S.W.C. Taekwondo (that's a link to my specific dojang) is a good school. That's why Master Shin, the president of USWC is also the World Taekwondo Federation president. He shows up at my testings some times.

If you've ever seen that man do four spinning back kicks before you really have the chance to move, you'll begin to respect the top level black belts that come out of our schools.

I'm obviously not there yet, but I'm on my way. My instructor tests next year, I think, for his 6th degree. I've seen other TKD schools around here and have been frankly repulsed! But settling with U.S. West Coast Taekwondo in Hillsboro has been one of the best things I could have done.

 

[Daniel]

That's good FFM, I'm happy for you, but at least you can see where most of the other people are coming from with their comments though. It's a shame really cause from what I've heard the good training is pretty good but probably 90% of the schools or more are totally watered down.

 

[MustangSVT]

agree, my comment that "lol, goto any TKD classes and look at those black belts.. pathetic... can't even do a good sidekick" was from the part, that instructors dont care about form of the kick. Side kick is one of the most simple kicks that easily show's the person's (skills? maybe the wording isnt right). And i was disgusted that intructors didnt even care to tell them that they are doing them wrong, not to mention all of other kicks. By learning the correct forms and postures the kicks can be more effective. And i guess there are lot of different TKD styles taught like power or speed or form. but total lack of speed training and basic counter and combo training at TKD class (that ive seen) just made me that it's not really art. more like a Tai BO workout class..,

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Exactly. If you practice the form and are more concerned about doing the technique correctly, soon you'll have the technique down pat and the power/speed will come naturally.

 

[thebestMAX]

Due to the fact that George Bush is going to get elected, I am now initiating a kindler, gentler me who will no longer comment on political, environmental, gun, martial arts or religious threads, MUCH