Best Platform for a SQL Ecommerce Server?

PieDerro

Senior member
Apr 19, 2000
813
0
0
What do you recommend spec-wise to build a kick a$$ single-server solution to run SQL Server for an ecommerce site?

I'm thinking along the lines of:

1. Single Opteron vs Single Xeon (maybe dual core if i can wait)
2. Raid 10 SATA vs Raid 10 SCSI (with 4 drives)
3. 1GB - 2GB Memory

There's heaps of "whole of database" work done with this machine, and the current P4 2.8GHz with SATA Raid 1 just isn't cutting it - very very slow to the point that the web connectors for the database are crashing whenever any "whole of database" updating, changes etc are applied.

Thanx in advance.
PD
 

CalvinHobbes

Diamond Member
Feb 27, 2004
3,524
0
0
Price range? You could do something like a Dell 2850 with 2 Xeon processors and 2GB of RAM with the option to upgrade to 4GB. You can run RAID10 internally or attach that to a powervault SCSI array and you're set.
 

sourceninja

Diamond Member
Mar 8, 2005
8,805
65
91
Get a machine from sun. You wont regret it. Solaris rocks for this kind of work.
 

willstay

Member
May 4, 2005
83
0
0
I see your server is multitasking hungry. If you are not getting dual processor or dual core, get atleast Pentium with HT. Pentium 4 EE (HT included) already comes with 2 MB of L2 cache making it pointless to invest in Xeon.

SATA should be faster than SCSI (as I understand from anandtech articles).
 

Vegito

Diamond Member
Oct 16, 1999
8,329
0
0
I would recommend AMD performance over intel.. as I'm running a quad xeon 3.0 with 4mb cache.. I'm pretty sure amd64 can totally blow away xeons.. because of it's share bus..

how much storage do you need ? if its for ecommerce, wont you have a lot of data ?

I mean with raid 10, 4 73 drive to give you 146gb of storage

there are 146gb @ 15k now, that'll give you a nice 292 gb of storage in raid 10 mode..

I would go at least 4 gb and apply the /3gb switch..

personally, my quad is running 12gb with /pae /3gb switch.. sql adjust to use 11.5 gb.
 

PieDerro

Senior member
Apr 19, 2000
813
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0
Originally posted by: willstay
I see your server is multitasking hungry. If you are not getting dual processor or dual core, get atleast Pentium with HT. Pentium 4 EE (HT included) already comes with 2 MB of L2 cache making it pointless to invest in Xeon.

SATA should be faster than SCSI (as I understand from anandtech articles).



I was under the impression that SCSI is almost always faster than SATA in database/multitasking operations.
 

PieDerro

Senior member
Apr 19, 2000
813
0
0
Also, if anyone knows the answer to this question, that would be great:

Does Windows treat dual-core processors as two logical processors or two physical processors?

I know that Windows treats at HT-enabled P4 as one physical processor, but two logical processors. Would it treat a dual-core Opteron in the same way? Or is this two physical CPUs? The reason that I ask is that i would like to also get a dual, dual-core Opteron server for Windows 2003 SBS Premium server, and the licensing model of this OS limits the processors to two physical CPUs and four logical CPUs!

Thanks!
 

willstay

Member
May 4, 2005
83
0
0
Originally posted by: PieDerro
I was under the impression that SCSI is almost always faster than SATA in database/multitasking operations.

I was referring to artile from tomshardware.com where they put lots of different hard drives to physical test.

In the following article, note
Maxtor Atlas 10K.4 is SCSI and
Western Digital Raptor WD360 is SATA

Except for the first two charts, SATA easily overtook SCSI.

http://www20.tomshardware.com/newsletter/vol3/17/wd360.html
 

MrChad

Lifer
Aug 22, 2001
13,507
3
81
Originally posted by: PieDerro
What do you recommend spec-wise to build a kick a$$ single-server solution to run SQL Server for an ecommerce site?

I'm thinking along the lines of:

1. Single Opteron vs Single Xeon (maybe dual core if i can wait)
2. Raid 10 SATA vs Raid 10 SCSI (with 4 drives)
3. 1GB - 2GB Memory

There's heaps of "whole of database" work done with this machine, and the current P4 2.8GHz with SATA Raid 1 just isn't cutting it - very very slow to the point that the web connectors for the database are crashing whenever any "whole of database" updating, changes etc are applied.

Thanx in advance.
PD

Not sure about Opteron vs. Xeon performance, but I would definitely go with SCSI for reliability and as much RAM as you can.

Have you spent time optimizing your DBs and the way your applications access them? What do you mean by "whole of database" updates? DB maintenance tasks should definitely be performed during off-peak (scheduled) periods. What kind of load do you need to sustain?
 

sourceninja

Diamond Member
Mar 8, 2005
8,805
65
91
You really should be getting something like this from a company like dell,sun, or ibm. Building it shouldn't be an option if this is a mission critical server. When something goes down do you really want to have it on your head? Or just say, yea its down, but we have same day on site support with sun and they will be here in an hour with a replacement part. I find that much better then "Yea, I ordered the new motherboard on newegg, it should be here tomarrow".

But again thats just me.

As for specs, I would need a better idea of the load that is going to be on the box. How many users? etc? Size of database? Type of database? How fast do you plan to grow?

This is something that if you dont know how to do already, you should be consulting with a professional. Unless of course this is just for a dev server, or a low load website for a small company. Then by all means have fun and learn They will be more understanding, and it wont cost you your job.


Then again (rambling) maybe your problem really isnt' you need a new server. Maybe you need to look at how your database is being used. What procedures and functions are being called, is your SQL standardized (everyone using the same caps, for example select * from table1 and SELECT * from table1 are too different querys to oracle, where if they were both the same it would pull from cache) Maybe you need to change your index's or use your indexs. Maybe you are doing crazy joins, or no joins. Maybe some of the work could be moved to the SQL server, or maybe the other way around, maybe some work could be moved to the webserver?

The trick is to find out what the weakest link is and how to improve it. Is it memory? Bandwith? Poor design? Building a better box is great, but what happens when thats full if your design is lackng? The final thing to think about is how this solution scales. Do you want to replace this server with a bigger one in a year? Depending on how fast you grow you may need something that is easier to scale. Maybe a blade, maybe just a rack that you can add a new box too and mirror. Maybe your storage requirements are growing and you need a SAN.

Ok enough rambling. Sorry
 

lansalot

Senior member
Jan 25, 2005
298
0
0
If I were the OP, I would finding out where my waits are occuring - and if that doesn't make sense to you, then you really need to buy some books or speak to a professional.

From your symptoms, I am thinking that throwing a heap of hardware at this is NOT going to make a difference. If things are that bad, then you can probably safely assume that you're IO bound. And IO problems don't tend to be solved easily by throwing more IO capability at the problem.
 

PieDerro

Senior member
Apr 19, 2000
813
0
0
Thanks for the info.

Yes, we found some issues in our SQL database that was hampering performance. Nonetheless, ASP.NET appears to be a real resource pig.

Anyone have any answers on the issue of Daul Core = Dual Physical Processors (for the purposes of Win2K3 licensing?).

Cheers.
PD
 

sourceninja

Diamond Member
Mar 8, 2005
8,805
65
91
Microsoft has released windows xp pro to support 4 cpu's now instead of 2. Which tells me they are going to concider a dual core cpu as a single cpu. Because 2 dual core cpu's = 4 cpus.
 

MrChad

Lifer
Aug 22, 2001
13,507
3
81
http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/highlights/multicore.mspx

On October 19, 2004, Microsoft announced that its server software that is currently licensed on a per-processor model will continue to be licensed on a per-processor, and not on a per-core, model. This policy will allow customers to recognize more performance and power from Microsoft software on a multicore processor system without incurring additional software licensing fees.
 
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