Best RAM for Wolfdale - E8500, Asus Rampage Formula?

[Stargazer77]

Greetings!

I have researched the web for my new rig and most of the components are taken care of. BUT... When it comes to RAM i get very confused! I have read many articles explaning (CAS, tRCD, tRP, tRAS) but i still have no clue what RAM works best for my configuration?

I need help from the experienced members of AnandTech

Below is the rig i plan to build, it's not the final configuration as some componets might change. The Case, PSU, CPU and Motherboard are final as i have already bought these.

Scenario 1:
I will NOT overclock and therefore i'm only interested in getting the most optimal system performance. I understand that anything faster than 800Mhz RAM wont matter that much if i dont intend to OC.

So under this scenario which CAS, tRCD, tRP, tRAS (4-4-4-12) config works best?

Which FSB speed is optimal?

Which RAM voltage works best?

Major original? OEM or third party?

Memory Chip Class preffered = Major Brand IC (tier-one) "Samsung" Any other suggestions?

Which Brand do you recommend? G.Skill, Mushkin, Crucial, Patriot, Corsair, GeIL, OCZ, Kingston.

Which model do you recommend for that brand? heat sink, heat Pipe, e.t.c. (Cost is not the primary concern)

Scenario 2:
Overclock CPU to 4.0 Ghz

Which CAS, tRCD, tRP, tRAS (4-4-4-12) config works best?

Which FSB speed is optimal?

Which RAM voltage works best?

Which Brand do you recommend?

This is what i plan to build:

CPU: Core2Duo - E8500
MOBO: Asus Rampage Formula - X48
http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=3208

RAM: 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR2-800
HD: (Raid-0) 2 x Western Digital 750GB SATA II RE2 (7200RPM / 16MB (WD7500AYYS)
OS: Windows XP Pro 32 Bit
Media: Pioneer 20x Sata DVR-215DBK
Case: Antec P182 SE
PSU: Corsair HX620W
Video Card: GeForce 8800GTS 512MB
CPU Cooler: Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtreme with Noctua NH-U12P - CPU Cooler Fan
Soundcard: Creative SoundBlaster X-Fi XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Professional
24" Dell ULTRASHARP 2408WFP

Grateful for your help!

 

[n7]

Hi, welcome to the forums

Not trying to be rude, but if you plan to run stock speeds, you're wasting a lot of money with that proposed system, since the biggest reason to buy enthusiast parts is to run them at maximum speed, not in the slow lane.

An E8500 runs @ 333 MHz FSB, which means the lowest you can go for RAM speeds is DDR2-667.
Keep in mind that higher end RAM will usually need to be set to the appropriate ratio, timings, & vdimm, which isn't far from what you'd do when tweaking it during OCing.

I'd get DDR2-800 (or better) since it's rarely much more than 667, & should offer slightly better performance/headroom.

As for what RAM specifically, since i see you're not from North America, i'd suggest you link us to what store(s) you'll be buying from, & i'll look thru what they sell & recommend what i know to be good [especially regarding overclocking ].

 

[Stargazer77]

Hi n7!

I plan to run stock speed only in the the beginning, but i want to oc for gaming plus i want a machine that will be able to run the software and games of tomorrow.

I always build my computers with top notch parts. I want the CPU to run as cool as possible even if i'm not overclocking it (Increases lifespan) It also means that the fans dont have to speed up to max to cool everything thus making it run more silent. Having said that i will aim to oc at 4GHz in the near future.

Therefore i dont mind spending a little extra on enthusiast parts

I decided to buy the Asus Ramapge Formula and have read the very informative review AnandTech wrote.

From AnandTech Rampage Formula Review:

" The Rampage Formula allows for half-multiplier usage. This is particularly useful when working in the higher FSB ranges. Because all Core 2 Duo/Quad CPUs are downward unlocked, every half multiplier between the processor default value and 6 can be used, with the exception of 6.5x.

Besides providing finer CPU frequency control, half-multipliers permit a wider choice of final multiplier/FSB combinations, which can help when choosing the best operating point for the processor and memory. Now that we have experienced what these new values have to offer, it will be hard to work with anything else. "

If you look at page 9 of the review: http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=3208&p=9

They show possible DDR2 Memory Configurations at 400Mhz FSB

The interesing part is the "Best Pick" Recommended DDR2 Memory Configurations.

The best choices configurations colored in light green are:

FSB: 400Mhz, tRD:5, TRD:12.5 Ns, Divider: 5:4, DDR Rating: DDR-1000, tCL (CAS): 4
FSB: 400Mhz, tRD:5, TRD:12.5 Ns, Divider: 3:2, DDR Rating: DDR-1200, tCL (CAS): 5

In their test they decided to run the Intel Core 2 Extreme QX9650 at a final FSB of 400MHz with a multiplier of 10.0x at an even 4GHz. Our 4x1GB of OCZ DDR2 PC2-8000 Platinum Extreme Edition memory was set to run at DDR2-1000 (5:4) CAS 4 with a tRD of 5.

This leads to my questions...

I want to run my Core 2 Duo E8500 at a final FSB of 400Mhz with a multiplier of 9.5x at 4GHz.

Will i also be able to run my memory at DDR2-1000 (5:4) CAS 4 with a tRD of 5 ???
In their test they used the Core 2 Extreme QX9650: Will the E8500 change the config mentioned above? If yes then how?

Does this mean that i need to buy a DDR2-1000MHz for the most optimal performance?

When choosing my memory what CAS, tRCD, tRP, tRAS config shall i pick?

Take this RAM example: OCZ Reaper HPC 4096MB DDR2 PC2-6400 800MHz (4-4-4-15) (2x2048MB) Link: http://www.webhallen.com/prod.php?id=83696

Is this a good config? How about (5-5-5-18) ? Does this even matter?

And finally... When this question is settled which brand maked the "Best" of this memory?

Lot's of questions i know but the more i learn about RAM the more questions i get

n7... Since all stores are in Swedish i dont know if this will help very much but i can name a few if you wanna have a go at it. Otherwise it's ok if you recommend a memory based on quality only

Here are the major stores in Sweden:
http://www.webhallen.com/list....d=3&konsol=13&genre=66

http://www.dustin.se/DacsaPort...oducts/r.aspx?s=G=5051

https://www.datorbutiken.com/s...4e77-b3fc-5a0562b287b3

Cheers!

 

[n7]

You don't have a 10x multi on the E8500, which means to hit 4 GHz you'll be running 421 MHz FSB.
Or let's say you'll want RAM capable of around 450+ MHz (DDR2-900).

In that review they are running high end 1 GB dimms, which will clock higher than 2 GB dimms, but also will be more of a challenge to work with, since all four slots being populated is harder on the NB & can be harder to fine tune.

I'd recommend 2x2 GB, but that won't be able to run speeds higher than ~DDR2-1100 unless you get lucky.
I'd say DDR2-1050ish is a realistic goal for any good 2x2 GB kit (not all are good).

Something a lot of people will say is that it's not worth getting RAM that runs faster than the FSB.
In other words, they are recommending 1:1.

While it's true the difference isn't huge, when you're buying high end like you are (& some of us do), there's no reason not to go for faster RAM, since as they show in that review, you can run tighter tRD timing, which makes a big difference in performance (at least in RAM terms), not to mention the extra bandwidth.

So if we want to assume some scenarios:

9.5 x 421 (4 GHz)
1:1 = DDR2-842
5:6 = DDR2-1010
4:5 = DDR2-1053
3:4 = DDR2-1123
2:3 = DDR2-1263

So from that we can conclude that your ideal & mostly ratios will be either 5:6, 4:5 (best in your case), or 3:4 (a bit too high to be realistic).
With any of those ratios, you'll be able to run a nice tight tRD with lots of bandwidth for maximum memory performance alongside a beast of a CPU.

If you go cheap on the RAM you'll only be able to do 1:1 or maybe 5:6, which are certainly fine too, just not as extreme

Now i justed looked thru all the links for RAM at the stores you have available to you, & quite honestly, there's not many good kits there at all.

The only one that i saw that was decent was this OCZ DDR2-1000:
https://www.datorbutiken.com/s...Product=4GBKDDR2O1000P

There are numerous good DDR2-800 kits in North America that will clock very well, as well as a lot of good DDR2-1000+ ones here, but unfortunately it seems you don't have access to them where you live.

Now keep in mind that you only need DDR2-900 or less to reach well over your planned overclock.
So for running 1:1, which it may not be the best, it's certainly going to be easier & cheapest, & it's not like you'd see a big difference unless you benchmark a lot
So you can buy any of the DDR2-800 kits @ still be fine.

 

[Stargazer77]

Thanks for that informative answer

I have been searching, reading and (Correct me if i'm wrong) this is my conclusion...

Considering your recommendation for E8500:

9.5 x 421 (4 GHz)
5:6 = DDR2-1010
4:5 = DDR2-1053

The RAM sweet spot for my rig if OC to 4GHz should be 1066 MHz (PC2 8500) With a 5-5-5-15 Timing?

I found these memory sticks, anything you like?

G.SKILL 4GB(2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500)

OCZ Reaper HPC 2x2048MB (tot. 4GB) DDR2 PC2-8500 1066MHz 5-5-5-18

Black Dragon 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR2 PC2 8500 1066Mhz 5-5-5-15 /8-Layer PCB with LED Retail

How about the Corsair 4 GB Dominator kits?

Which tRAS value offers the best performance? 5-5-5-15 or 5-5-5-18?

Finally... I would love to hear what RAM Timing & Brand you would choose from ANY Store for optimal system performance My max budget is $300 for 4 Gb.

The stores i gave you here in Sweden where only a few, my options increases alot when buying from the whole of EU

Cheers!

 

[n7]

Any DDR2-1066 kit will be very good.

I don't really think you'll see a large difference in how high you can get.
Basically, the best 2x2 GB kits all top out around 540-580 MHz.

If i was personally buying a 2x2 GB kit with money as no real object, i'd likely get the Corsair Dominator 2x2 GB DDR2-1066 kit.
Seems to be very high binned Powerchips, better than the average good kit.
It's the only 2x2 GB kit i've ever seen running @ DDR2-1200...likely not stable, but that's still far better than anything we've seen in the 2x2 GB arena thus far.

The other one i'd look at would be the Crucial 2x2 GB DDR2-800 4-4-4 Ballistix kit.
It's the only kit that uses some newer good overclockable Micron, & i've seen it reach higher speeds with 4-4-4 timings than anything else, not to mention solid 5-5-5 clocking also.

Being Micron, it should scale a bit more with voltage than the Powerchips kits, so if you dare to mess with additional voltage, it will likely yield results, unlike the other high end 2x2 GB kits that use Powerchips.

 

[lopri]

n7 what's the highest MHz you've seen from the Crucial 2GB sticks @4-4-4? If you don't mind sharing

 

[n7]

Well, since fortunately i scour the internetz for results...


Nah, i came across a link to these results via the sale page for the RAM @ NCIX.

http://www.overclock.net/intel...stix-2x2gb-thread.html

He's doing DDR2-925 4-4-4, which is actually very good for 2 GB dimms.

He also claims it's D9HNL or D9GMH, & i'm all but positive he's wrong on both accounts.

Unless D9HNL underwent miraculous surgury, it never EVER reaches clocks anywhere remotely close to what he's doing, so i know it's a newer IC, just not which one yet.
And D9GMH lol...no such thing on 2 GB dimms.

Mushkin did D9GSV on 2 GB dimms back in the day, which was basically D9GMH equivalent IIRC, but that's as close as we'll ever see.

There's a thread on XS about the Crucial kit too, but for some damn reason, i just can't seem to find it it tonight.

 

[lopri]

That's pretty nice. I agree in that there is no way D9HNL would do either the frequency or the timing. Thanks for the link!

 

[rezilient1]

Fyi, I've had bad experience with Crucial RAM. Sending back the second batch of Ballistix PC-8500. Its definitely the RAM since one stick works like a champ and one is throwing errors at a specific memory address.

 

[n7]

Lots of people have bad experiences with Crucial it seems, but it's with their 2x1 GB kits.

The ICs in the 2x2 GB kits are not at all the same as the 2x1 GB kits with the frequently dying D9GMH, so i wouldn't expect the same issues...then again time will only tell.

 

[rezilient1]

Originally posted by: n7
Lots of people have bad experiences with Crucial it seems, but it's with their 2x1 GB kits.

The ICs in the 2x2 GB kits are not at all the same as the 2x1 GB kits with the frequently dying D9GMH, so i wouldn't expect the same issues...then again time will only tell.

Makes sense. So is this list accurate?

http://ramlist.ath.cx/ddr2/

Might help us decide what to get. And what have been known to be stable Micron chips, if not the D9GMH. I thought I read somewhere the D9's were good in general.

 

[Stargazer77]

N7... Thank you for your insightful answer!

I will go with the Corsair Dominator 2x2 GB DDR2-1066

It's nice to have an expert holding your hand when buying memory... I've been out of the hardware loop for 7 years so alot has happened since then.

Cheers