Best Watercooling Kit Available?

[SuperU21]

I'm debating switching to water cooling with the arrival of my Opteron 165, I'd rather do a kit just because I don't have a ton of time to fiddle with DIY but I'd still consider it.

Thermaltake 745 looked like a viable option, price isn't a huge issue but I like to keep things within reason.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Snerp]

You will be putting the same amount of time with a kit as you would a custom when it comes to putting it all together.

Here are my fav parts:

CPU - Swiftech Apogee or Storm (storm is better, by about 1-2C. Not worth $40 extra imo)
GPU - Danger Den MAZE 4
Rad - Danger Den Black Ice Xtreme 3 or Thermochill PA or HE 3
Tubing - Master Kleer 1/2" or 7/16"
Pump - Danger Den D5 or Swiftech MCP-655 (same pump, different names)
Either do a T-Line or just get a res

So this is the top of the line for right now, unless you want to pay $200 for a silver block . If youy buy these you'll be happy. Overclock.net is a great place to go for all of you WCing questions.

 

[aigomorla]

that TT kit is awesome for its price. But somehow i still dont have enough trust in TT when it comes to water cooling. You can buy a DYI kit with high quality parts.

Swiftech APEX 220 <--- probably the best kit value hands down.

its kinda pricey tho at around 240.00 at jab-tech.com.

Anyhow heres what it comes with.

pump: D5 pump <--- the one of the best and quietest pumps you can get for 12V
block: Apogee <--- its almost as good as my STORM. >:]
Radiator: 2 pass 2x120mm <--- dual rads
external mount: allows you to mount the rads outside in the back of your case
Rez: micro rez <---- its small and it fits inside the case. No sloush sounds like bay rez's


Anyhow, if price isnt a issue, id get that kit hands down, and maybe upgrade the parts like a Video card cooler. :]

 

[Snerp]

You don't want to have more than one radiator. It brings down your flow. You are better off with one big radiator. TT blocks aren't nearly as good as DD or Swiftech.

 

[Ping to the Pong]

Originally posted by: Snerp
You will be putting the same amount of time with a kit as you would a custom when it comes to putting it all together.

Here are my fav parts:

CPU - Swiftech Apogee or Storm (storm is better, by about 1-2C. Not worth $40 extra imo)
GPU - Danger Den MAZE 4
Rad - Danger Den Black Ice Xtreme 3 or Thermochill PA or HE 3
Tubing - Master Kleer 1/2" or 7/16"
Pump - Danger Den D5 or Swiftech MCP-655 (same pump, different names)
Either do a T-Line or just get a res

So this is the top of the line for right now, unless you want to pay $200 for a silver block . If youy buy these you'll be happy. Overclock.net is a great place to go for all of you WCing questions.

i would have to agree with these choices. But for the sake of noise, i would go for a BIP II as you will be able use a lower cfm fan on it. Plus it will save you some money.

 

[Snerp]

I've been told to avoid the BIP because it restricts flow. More flow = lower temps. If you are worried about noise get a fan controller so you have a choice on your temps rather then cutting yourself off.

 

[Luckyboy1]

You will be putting the same amount of time with a kit as you would a custom when it comes to putting it all together...


Not just that statement, but many of the things snerp has to say in this thread are so good that beyond simply wanting to let you know it is the best of advice, I'll let him handle it! Ignore his fine advice at your own peril!

You're going to water cool, but you're not going to turn your brain on and think? Either do the water cooling right or leave the project on the doorstep where it belongs for now. Water cooling done half baked is no better than good and quiet, high quality air cooling and sometimes can be even noisier than good quality air cooling. Do it right or leave it alone.

Again, snerp, for you...

:beer:

 

[slsmnaz]

Originally posted by: Ping to the Pong

Originally posted by: Snerp
You will be putting the same amount of time with a kit as you would a custom when it comes to putting it all together.

Here are my fav parts:

CPU - Swiftech Apogee or Storm (storm is better, by about 1-2C. Not worth $40 extra imo)
GPU - Danger Den MAZE 4
Rad - Danger Den Black Ice Xtreme 3 or Thermochill PA or HE 3
Tubing - Master Kleer 1/2" or 7/16"
Pump - Danger Den D5 or Swiftech MCP-655 (same pump, different names)
Either do a T-Line or just get a res

So this is the top of the line for right now, unless you want to pay $200 for a silver block . If youy buy these you'll be happy. Overclock.net is a great place to go for all of you WCing questions.

i would have to agree with these choices. But for the sake of noise, i would go for a BIP II as you will be able use a lower cfm fan on it. Plus it will save you some money.

Pretty good choices on that DIY set-up.

Actually for low noise I would pair the Thermochill PA120.X with some Yate Loons. That's what I have and it is silent. Plus it's built for no shroud if space is an issue.

 

[Greenman]

Originally posted by: Snerp
More flow = lower temps.

I disagree. You only need enough flow to keep the water in the block from getting to hot, beyond that there is no gain from increased flow. At any speed, any given molecule of water spends exactly the same amount of time at any given point in the system.

 

[Luckyboy1]

I've heard the argument about flow rates, but I think within reason, they do matter. I've got a variable speed pump and massive radiators as well as high quality, Danger Den water blocks all around and so that end of the deal is handled well. The pump runs on DC power and if I put 10 volts to it, I'll get a temp and if I up the voltage to 14 volts, it will go down by 5 C. If I crank it all the way up to 18 volts, I get another 0.5 C for all the extra pump noise.

 

[Snerp]

Originally posted by: Greenman

Originally posted by: Snerp
More flow = lower temps.

I disagree. You only need enough flow to keep the water in the block from getting to hot, beyond that there is no gain from increased flow. At any speed, any given molecule of water spends exactly the same amount of time at any given point in the system.

You will notice a difference between the BIP and the BIX and it is do to loss in flow.

Originally posted by: Luckyboy1
I've heard the argument about flow rates, but I think within reason, they do matter. I've got a variable speed pump and massive radiators as well as high quality, Danger Den water blocks all around and so that end of the deal is handled well. The pump runs on DC power and if I put 10 volts to it, I'll get a temp and if I up the voltage to 14 volts, it will go down by 5 C. If I crank it all the way up to 18 volts, I get another 0.5 C for all the extra pump noise.

If I remember right from the chart DD has, the jump in volts from 10 to 14 yields more gph/volt then the jump from 14 to 18. That would explain the lesser improvement comparing the two.

 

[Makubex GB]

Originally posted by: Snerp
I've been told to avoid the BIP because it restricts flow. More flow = lower temps. If you are worried about noise get a fan controller so you have a choice on your temps rather then cutting yourself off.

Negative, the BIP won't hurt your flow any more than the BIX to a degree that would actually degrade performance due to flow restriction. The BIP is made so it performs better with silent low CFM fans and the BIX is made for high CFM fans, that's just about it.


My suggestions:

CPU Block: Swiftech MCW6002 or Storm

GPU Block: Low Profile Maze4

Pump: Swiftech MCP655 (DD Laing D5) or AquaXtreme 50Z

Radiator: Swiftech MCR220 or ThermoChill PA120.2 (if you can afford it)

Tubing: ClearFLEX60 or Tygon both 1/2" ID - 3/4" OD (1/8" thick)

Reservoir or T-line, it's your choice.

 

[slsmnaz]

Originally posted by: Makubex GB

Originally posted by: Snerp
I've been told to avoid the BIP because it restricts flow. More flow = lower temps. If you are worried about noise get a fan controller so you have a choice on your temps rather then cutting yourself off.

Negative, the BIP won't hurt your flow any more than the BIX to a degree that would actually degrade performance due to flow restriction. The BIP is made so it performs better with silent low CFM fans and the BIX is made for high CFM fans, that's just about it.


My suggestions:

CPU Block: Swiftech MCW6002 or Storm

GPU Block: Low Profile Maze4

Pump: Swiftech MCP655 (DD Laing D5) or AquaXtreme 50Z

Radiator: Swiftech MCR220 or ThermoChill PA120.2 (if you can afford it)

Tubing: ClearFLEX60 or Tygon both 1/2" ID - 3/4" OD (1/8" thick)

Reservoir or T-line, it's your choice.

Don't forget ramsinks for the vid card if using the maze4 and quiet fans for rad.

 

[Makubex GB]

Ah yes, ramsinks. I recommend pure copper ramsinks, my personal favorite are the Swiftech MC14 VGA Forged Copper Ramsinks.

 

[Bateluer]

I must say, this thread was an informative read.

As it so happens, I'm also looking into water cooling when I overhaul my system this coming August. Keeping a computer cool running in a Phoenix summer is no easy task.

I was looking at a TT Big Water 745, but I'm hearing that TT isn't as reliable as other manufactures. A complete kit is a prefered method for me as well. Its just easier than buying everything seperately.

At the moment, I'm looking at a H20-220 Apex 'Ultra' kit from Swiftech, seen here

The big thing I am concerned about is AM2 compatibility. As I understand the water cooling system, the water blocks are more or less universal. However, given that AMD did change some of the mounting systems for the AM2 socket, there is a chance that the included water block won't fit an AM2 CPU. Given my understanding, I would merely have to purchase a new waterblock, which would solve that problem, correct?

Swiftech's site didn't specify any preferred cases either. The TT Kandalf and Lian Li PC-V2000B both caught my eye. The TT is cheaper, but the Lian Li looks like it has more internal space, allowing one to mount a dual 120mm radiator internally. The Lian Li also looks better from a purely visual perspective.

Comments? Keep in mind, I would prefer to stay with a kit rather than buying everything seperately. In the case of the Swiftech, all the parts are sold seperately, the kit is just an 'easy bundle'.

 

[Snerp]

Originally posted by: Makubex GB
Ah yes, ramsinks. I recommend pure copper ramsinks, my personal favorite are the Swiftech MC14 VGA Forged Copper Ramsinks.

I must ask, how do you plan on getting the MC14 RAMsinks on that video card with the LP MAZE 4?

The BIP does bring down your flow. I have talked to plenty of people about this exact issue.

There is no reason to get the MCW 6002 over the Apogee. The Storm, Apogee, give basically the same temps.

Actually take a look at everything before you tell me I am wrong.

 

[slsmnaz]

Originally posted by: Bateluer
I must say, this thread was an informative read.

As it so happens, I'm also looking into water cooling when I overhaul my system this coming August. Keeping a computer cool running in a Phoenix summer is no easy task.

I was looking at a TT Big Water 745, but I'm hearing that TT isn't as reliable as other manufactures. A complete kit is a prefered method for me as well. Its just easier than buying everything seperately.

At the moment, I'm looking at a H20-220 Apex 'Ultra' kit from Swiftech, seen here

The big thing I am concerned about is AM2 compatibility. As I understand the water cooling system, the water blocks are more or less universal. However, given that AMD did change some of the mounting systems for the AM2 socket, there is a chance that the included water block won't fit an AM2 CPU. Given my understanding, I would merely have to purchase a new waterblock, which would solve that problem, correct?

Swiftech's site didn't specify any preferred cases either. The TT Kandalf and Lian Li PC-V2000B both caught my eye. The TT is cheaper, but the Lian Li looks like it has more internal space, allowing one to mount a dual 120mm radiator internally. The Lian Li also looks better from a purely visual perspective.

Comments? Keep in mind, I would prefer to stay with a kit rather than buying everything seperately. In the case of the Swiftech, all the parts are sold seperately, the kit is just an 'easy bundle'.

I'm in Phx and mine has no troubles.

That kit is the best one I've seen but I don't think you could mount the rad internal. It used to come w/ the Storm but they switched it. You will need to add a block for your vid card if you want to put that in your loop. I pieced mine together because I wanted it all inside the case.

I really have no idea if it will be compatible w/ AM2 but a new block would solve that issue.

Personally, I have a LL case and love the way it looks. Also that case is big so there's plenty of room plus there is no question about quality w/ LL.

I must ask, how do you plan on getting the MC14 RAMsinks on that video card with the LP MAZE 4?

I don't think they would fit without being cut off. I have a maze4 w/ OCZ sinks and it is pretty tight.

 

[Makubex GB]

Originally posted by: Snerp

Originally posted by: Makubex GB
Ah yes, ramsinks. I recommend pure copper ramsinks, my personal favorite are the Swiftech MC14 VGA Forged Copper Ramsinks.

I must ask, how do you plan on getting the MC14 RAMsinks on that video card with the LP MAZE 4?

The BIP does bring down your flow. I have talked to plenty of people about this exact issue.

There is no reason to get the MCW 6002 over the Apogee. The Storm, Apogee, give basically the same temps.

Actually take a look at everything before you tell me I am wrong.

You have to file down or cut down three ramsinks like I did.

I have also talked to plenty of people and seen plenty of charts and the BIP doesn't not bring down your flow to a degree that it will noticeably raise your temps. The choice between a BIP or a BIX depends on the fans you'll be using, not on flow restriction.

As for the CPU Block recommendation:

See Pic: http://www.systemcooling.com/images/rev...Cooling/Swiftech_Apogee/image27big.gif

I did take a look, and you're wrong.

 

[Makubex GB]

Originally posted by: Bateluer
I must say, this thread was an informative read.

As it so happens, I'm also looking into water cooling when I overhaul my system this coming August. Keeping a computer cool running in a Phoenix summer is no easy task.

I was looking at a TT Big Water 745, but I'm hearing that TT isn't as reliable as other manufactures. A complete kit is a prefered method for me as well. Its just easier than buying everything seperately.

At the moment, I'm looking at a H20-220 Apex 'Ultra' kit from Swiftech, seen here

The big thing I am concerned about is AM2 compatibility. As I understand the water cooling system, the water blocks are more or less universal. However, given that AMD did change some of the mounting systems for the AM2 socket, there is a chance that the included water block won't fit an AM2 CPU. Given my understanding, I would merely have to purchase a new waterblock, which would solve that problem, correct?

Swiftech's site didn't specify any preferred cases either. The TT Kandalf and Lian Li PC-V2000B both caught my eye. The TT is cheaper, but the Lian Li looks like it has more internal space, allowing one to mount a dual 120mm radiator internally. The Lian Li also looks better from a purely visual perspective.

Comments? Keep in mind, I would prefer to stay with a kit rather than buying everything seperately. In the case of the Swiftech, all the parts are sold seperately, the kit is just an 'easy bundle'.

Remember that if you buy things separately you would pretty much get what you would get in a kit except probably cheaper and better.

Well as for the case, I personally have a Lian Li 7077A, and it's a pleasure to work with. I would recommend this case to anyone, especially if they were going into water cooling. You just have so much space to work with, plus the case is very "moddable".

Here's a pic: http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=Side_View.jpg

You can see how I fit the ramsinks between the video card the Low Profile Maze4.

 

[Bateluer]

Originally posted by: Makubex GB
Remember that if you buy things separately you would pretty much get what you would get in a kit except probably cheaper and better.

Well as for the case, I personally have a Lian Li 7077A, and it's a pleasure to work with. I would recommend this case to anyone, especially if they were going into water cooling. You just have so much space to work with, plus the case is very "moddable".

Here's a pic: http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=Side_View.jpg

You can see how I fit the ramsinks between the video card the Low Profile Maze4.

Thanks for the feedback. Is your radiator mounted internally or externally? Out of curiousity, it appears you've removed the back panel of the case as well as the front, from the picture. Does your water cooling consist of the components you posted previously?

"My suggestions:

CPU Block: Swiftech MCW6002 or Storm

GPU Block: Low Profile Maze4

Pump: Swiftech MCP655 (DD Laing D5) or AquaXtreme 50Z

Radiator: Swiftech MCR220 or ThermoChill PA120.2 (if you can afford it)

Tubing: ClearFLEX60 or Tygon both 1/2" ID - 3/4" OD (1/8" thick)

Reservoir or T-line, it's your choice. "

My current base is a mid tower Lian Li, very similar to yours. The model number escapes me at the moment, the case was purchases over 2 years ago. This build is definitely going to be a full tower. The mid tower cases don't have enough drive bays for my purposes. I plan on moving my three DVD drives and 3 hard drives over to the new tower. Presently, they occupy all bays in my midtower, the cable clutter disupts airflow.

 

[Makubex GB]

Yes, the radiator is mounted internally at the top of the case (I had to mod the top of the case). The two fans are under the rad blowing through the rad and out of the case.

The side panels are removed for picture purposes only, if you want, here's a pic with the panels on: http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=With_Panels.jpg


My components consist of:

CPU Block: Swiftech Storm Rev. 2

GPU Block: Dangerden Low Profile Acetal Maze 4

Ramsinks: Swiftech MC14 VGA Forged Copper Ramsinks

Radiator: Swiftech MCR220 Dual 120mm Black

Pump: Dangerden Laing D5

Tubing: 1/2" ID - 3/4" OD Tygon 3603

Reservoir: Swiftech MCRES525 "BAY RES"

If Drive bays are what worries you, you won't have any worries with the Lian Li PC-7077. This case has 9 x 5.25" drive bays PLUS an HDD cage at the bottom which can hold up to 4 x HDDs.

I bought an additional HDD cage, so I've got 6 x 5.25" drive bays and space for up to 8 x HDDs and 2 x 120mm fans at the front (one per HDD cage). I currently have 4 hard drives in there. Here's a front shot: http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/4449/pic0294si.jpg

 

[Bateluer]

Originally posted by: slsmnaz
I'm in Phx and mine has no troubles.

That kit is the best one I've seen but I don't think you could mount the rad internal. It used to come w/ the Storm but they switched it. You will need to add a block for your vid card if you want to put that in your loop. I pieced mine together because I wanted it all inside the case.

I really have no idea if it will be compatible w/ AM2 but a new block would solve that issue.

Personally, I have a LL case and love the way it looks. Also that case is big so there's plenty of room plus there is no question about quality w/ LL.

I dislike paying 300 dollar electric bills, so my AC is set around 80 in the summer.

From the MSRPs on Swiftech's website, its cheaper to buy the kit than all Swiftech components. The VGA water block alone is 65 dollars. Might be a better bet to just buy the Ultra+ kit and get the chipset block as well as the VGA block.

Originally posted by: Makubex GB
Yes, the radiator is mounted internally at the top of the case (I had to mod the top of the case). The two fans are under the rad blowing through the rad and out of the case.

The side panels are removed for picture purposes only, if you want, here's a pic with the panels on: http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=With_Panels.jpg


My components consist of:

CPU Block: Swiftech Storm Rev. 2

GPU Block: Dangerden Low Profile Acetal Maze 4

Ramsinks: Swiftech MC14 VGA Forged Copper Ramsinks

Radiator: Swiftech MCR220 Dual 120mm Black

Pump: Dangerden Laing D5

Tubing: 1/2" ID - 3/4" OD Tygon 3603

Reservoir: Swiftech MCRES525 "BAY RES"

If Drive bays are what worries you, you won't have any worries with the Lian Li PC-7077. This case has 9 x 5.25" drive bays PLUS an HDD cage at the bottom which can hold up to 4 x HDDs.

I bought an additional HDD cage, so I've got 6 x 5.25" drive bays and space for up to 8 x HDDs and 2 x 120mm fans at the front (one per HDD cage). I currently have 4 hard drives in there. Here's a front shot: http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/4449/pic0294si.jpg

I don't see a lot of these parts at my usual sources of Newegg and FrozenCPU. Whats a good site to buy the parts from? Swiftech's online store does sell everything thats in their kits seperately, but buying them all seperately costs more than the kit. To get the Apex Ultra+ kit, its 350 dollars+shipping.

 

[Makubex GB]

www.Jab-tech.com

www.Performance-PCS.com

www.petrastechshop.com

www.sidewindercomputers.com

www.voyeurmods.com

www.cooltechnica.com

Give me a few mins and I'll put something together for ya and we'll compare it to a kit.

PS. What CPU do you have?

Edit: I also forgot to recommend the Dangerden Copper TDX CPU Block. It's also a good block.

 

[Snerp]

Originally posted by: Makubex GB

Originally posted by: Snerp

Originally posted by: Makubex GB
Ah yes, ramsinks. I recommend pure copper ramsinks, my personal favorite are the Swiftech MC14 VGA Forged Copper Ramsinks.

I must ask, how do you plan on getting the MC14 RAMsinks on that video card with the LP MAZE 4?

The BIP does bring down your flow. I have talked to plenty of people about this exact issue.

There is no reason to get the MCW 6002 over the Apogee. The Storm, Apogee, give basically the same temps.

Actually take a look at everything before you tell me I am wrong.

You have to file down or cut down three ramsinks like I did.

I have also talked to plenty of people and seen plenty of charts and the BIP doesn't not bring down your flow to a degree that it will noticeably raise your temps. The choice between a BIP or a BIX depends on the fans you'll be using, not on flow restriction.

As for the CPU Block recommendation:

See Pic: http://www.systemcooling.com/images/rev...Cooling/Swiftech_Apogee/image27big.gif

I did take a look, and you're wrong.

No dude...you took a look at a chart. You didn't read what I was saying about flow rates on the D5 correctly.

You obviously didn't read the entire article you linked that chart from (which can be found HERE) which give the end results. All of the blocks come in at basically the same temp. So don't tell me I am wrong.

Explain to me what benefits the LP has over the original MAZE 4 GPU block which makes it in your opinion a far superior block. Also please let me know how cutting the RAMsinks down further for the LP make the RAMsinks better.

As far as tubing goes, MasterKleer has just as good of flexibility, it doesn't stain like Tygon, and it goes for $.69/ft rather than $2+.

 

[Makubex GB]

This is what the Swiftech H20-APEX "ULTRA" Series Liquid Cooling Kit comes with for about $259.95:

* APOGEE waterblock
* MCR220 radiator
* MCP655? 12 Volts DC pump
* MCRES-Micro reservoir
* MCB120 "Radbox" radiator mounting adapter (pretty useless since the rad is 2 x 120mm)
* (2) Delta Fans 72 CFM 120x25mm @ 37dBA
* 7/16" ID (5/8" OD) tubing (don't know how much)
* Coolsleves

Notice it has no GPU Block.

This is what you can get from Jab-Tech.com for $199.65:

*Dangerden Copper TDX Block
*Swiftech MCR-220 Radiator
*Swiftech MCP655? 12 VDC Pump
*ClearFLEX 60 Tubing 1/2" ID / 3/4" OD (10 feet)
*2 x YATE LOON 120mm Case Fans
*Swiftech MCRES-Micro reservoir

By getting components independently, you can throw away the useless stuff and get specifically the components that you want, which may even perform better, for a lower price.