Best Watercooling Kit Available?

[Makubex GB]

Originally posted by: Snerp

Originally posted by: Makubex GB

Originally posted by: Snerp

Originally posted by: Makubex GB
Ah yes, ramsinks. I recommend pure copper ramsinks, my personal favorite are the Swiftech MC14 VGA Forged Copper Ramsinks.

I must ask, how do you plan on getting the MC14 RAMsinks on that video card with the LP MAZE 4?

The BIP does bring down your flow. I have talked to plenty of people about this exact issue.

There is no reason to get the MCW 6002 over the Apogee. The Storm, Apogee, give basically the same temps.

Actually take a look at everything before you tell me I am wrong.

You have to file down or cut down three ramsinks like I did.

I have also talked to plenty of people and seen plenty of charts and the BIP doesn't not bring down your flow to a degree that it will noticeably raise your temps. The choice between a BIP or a BIX depends on the fans you'll be using, not on flow restriction.

As for the CPU Block recommendation:

See Pic: http://www.systemcooling.com/images/rev...Cooling/Swiftech_Apogee/image27big.gif

I did take a look, and you're wrong.

No dude...you took a look at a chart. You didn't read what I was saying about flow rates on the D5 correctly.

You obviously didn't read the entire article you linked that chart from (which can be found HERE) which give the end results. All of the blocks come in at basically the same temp. So don't tell me I am wrong.

Explain to me what benefits the LP has over the original MAZE 4 GPU block which makes it in your opinion a far superior block. Also please let me know how cutting the RAMsinks down further for the LP make the RAMsinks better.

As far as tubing goes, MasterKleer has just as good of flexibility, it doesn't stain like Tygon, and it goes for $.69/ft rather than $2+.

FYI I have read a lot about the Apogee, and it is a step backwards for Swiftech. It's not bad, but it's not better. Especially when the CPU's I H S is off. How about you explain to me, since you obviously read the whole article and many others, how the Apogee can perform as good as the Storm.

Who said that cutting the ramsinks made them better? It just makes them fit "dude". The benefit of having the LP Maze4 is greatly appreciated when you have a dual video card configuration, or any other close PCI cards. But mostly because of dual VGA. That's why I recommend it.

As for tubing I also recommended ClearFLEX60 which is also cheap. I prefer them both over MasterKleer primarily because they offer 1/2" ID - 3/8" OD. The 1/8" thickness helps even more in preventing kinking. MasterKleer maybe good, but is NOT just as good in bending when compared to these.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Here's a good debate about the Apogee and Storm - http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=452894

 

[Bateluer]

Originally posted by: Makubex GB
This is what the Swiftech H20-APEX "ULTRA" Series Liquid Cooling Kit comes with for about $259.95:

* APOGEE waterblock
* MCR220 radiator
* MCP655? 12 Volts DC pump
* MCRES-Micro reservoir
* MCB120 "Radbox" radiator mounting adapter (pretty useless since the rad is 2 x 120mm)
* (2) Delta Fans 72 CFM 120x25mm @ 37dBA
* 7/16" ID (5/8" OD) tubing (don't know how much)
* Coolsleves

Notice it has no CPU Block.

This is what you can get from Jab-Tech.com for $199.65:

*Dangerden Copper TDX Block
*Swiftech MCR-220 Radiator
*Swiftech MCP655? 12 VDC Pump
*ClearFLEX 60 Tubing 1/2" ID / 3/4" OD (10 feet)
*2 x YATE LOON 120mm Case Fans
*Swiftech MCRES-Micro reservoir

By getting components independently, you can throw away the useless stuff and get specifically the components that you want, which may even perform better, for a lower price.

Thanks for the listings.

Regarding your earlier question about the CPU being used. This water cooling setup is going to be for a build I do this coming August. Most likely, it will be an AM2 A64X2 CPU. Unfortunately, since there is very little concrete data regarding pricing, my spreadsheet merely has 400 allotted for the processor. My current P4 3.4E and mid-tower LL case just don't have the room to effectively install a watercooling system.

 

[Makubex GB]

Originally posted by: Bateluer

Originally posted by: Makubex GB
This is what the Swiftech H20-APEX "ULTRA" Series Liquid Cooling Kit comes with for about $259.95:

* APOGEE waterblock
* MCR220 radiator
* MCP655? 12 Volts DC pump
* MCRES-Micro reservoir
* MCB120 "Radbox" radiator mounting adapter (pretty useless since the rad is 2 x 120mm)
* (2) Delta Fans 72 CFM 120x25mm @ 37dBA
* 7/16" ID (5/8" OD) tubing (don't know how much)
* Coolsleves

Notice it has no CPU Block.

This is what you can get from Jab-Tech.com for $199.65:

*Dangerden Copper TDX Block
*Swiftech MCR-220 Radiator
*Swiftech MCP655? 12 VDC Pump
*ClearFLEX 60 Tubing 1/2" ID / 3/4" OD (10 feet)
*2 x YATE LOON 120mm Case Fans
*Swiftech MCRES-Micro reservoir

By getting components independently, you can throw away the useless stuff and get specifically the components that you want, which may even perform better, for a lower price.

Thanks for the listings.

Regarding your earlier question about the CPU being used. This water cooling setup is going to be for a build I do this coming August. Most likely, it will be an AM2 A64X2 CPU. Unfortunately, since there is very little concrete data regarding pricing, my spreadsheet merely has 400 allotted for the processor. My current P4 3.4E and mid-tower LL case just don't have the room to effectively install a watercooling system.

I see, then it would be wise to wait, since the AM2 socket will not be compatible with most of today's heatsinks.

*By the way, in my post about comparing the kit and individual parts, I meant to say "Notice it has no GPU block". I accidentally wrote CPU instead.

 

[slsmnaz]

Originally posted by: Bateluer

I dislike paying 300 dollar electric bills, so my AC is set around 80 in the summer.

From the MSRPs on Swiftech's website, its cheaper to buy the kit than all Swiftech components. The VGA water block alone is 65 dollars. Might be a better bet to just buy the Ultra+ kit and get the chipset block as well as the VGA block.

The Maze4 is about $45 here (Jab-tech).

I wouldn't add a chipset block into the loop. It restricts flow and won't outperform a passive cooler.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: Makubex GB

Originally posted by: Snerp

Originally posted by: Makubex GB

Originally posted by: Snerp

Originally posted by: Makubex GB
Ah yes, ramsinks. I recommend pure copper ramsinks, my personal favorite are the Swiftech MC14 VGA Forged Copper Ramsinks.

I must ask, how do you plan on getting the MC14 RAMsinks on that video card with the LP MAZE 4?

The BIP does bring down your flow. I have talked to plenty of people about this exact issue.

There is no reason to get the MCW 6002 over the Apogee. The Storm, Apogee, give basically the same temps.

Actually take a look at everything before you tell me I am wrong.

You have to file down or cut down three ramsinks like I did.

I have also talked to plenty of people and seen plenty of charts and the BIP doesn't not bring down your flow to a degree that it will noticeably raise your temps. The choice between a BIP or a BIX depends on the fans you'll be using, not on flow restriction.

As for the CPU Block recommendation:

See Pic: http://www.systemcooling.com/images/rev...Cooling/Swiftech_Apogee/image27big.gif

I did take a look, and you're wrong.

No dude...you took a look at a chart. You didn't read what I was saying about flow rates on the D5 correctly.

You obviously didn't read the entire article you linked that chart from (which can be found HERE) which give the end results. All of the blocks come in at basically the same temp. So don't tell me I am wrong.

Explain to me what benefits the LP has over the original MAZE 4 GPU block which makes it in your opinion a far superior block. Also please let me know how cutting the RAMsinks down further for the LP make the RAMsinks better.

As far as tubing goes, MasterKleer has just as good of flexibility, it doesn't stain like Tygon, and it goes for $.69/ft rather than $2+.

FYI I have read a lot about the Apogee, and it is a step backwards for Swiftech. It's not bad, but it's not better. Especially when the CPU's I H S is off. How about you explain to me, since you obviously read the whole article and many others, how the Apogee can perform as good as the Storm.

Who said that cutting the ramsinks made them better? It just makes them fit "dude". The benefit of having the LP Maze4 is greatly appreciated when you have a dual video card configuration, or any other close PCI cards. But mostly because of dual VGA. That's why I recommend it.

As for tubing I also recommended ClearFLEX60 which is also cheap. I prefer them both over MasterKleer primarily because they offer 1/2" ID - 3/8" OD. The 1/8" thickness helps even more in preventing kinking. MasterKleer maybe good, but is NOT just as good in bending when compared to these.

OKEY. First off the RADBOX is not usless. Im currently using it on my system on a 2x120 radiator. Its nice because my radbox is outside and its pulling cold air from a window right behind it.

Next thing, i had the storm rev.1 I did some reading on the apogee so i decided hellz why not try it. Compared to my storm rev.1 the apogee is a little better. Dont ask me why, but it is. My idle temps are at 27, load temps doesnt break 38. This is with 2 video cards in the loop btw.

Compared to the storm rev.2 i think the apogee will lose. Im currently waiting for my rev.2 chamber upgrade for my storm, but dont discount the apogee, its a fairly nice block.

Also, dont discredit swiftech. so what if the AM2 platform comes out? if you buy there storm or apogee, im almost sure that within a matter of weeks, swiftech will come with a base plate adaptor that u can just addon to your waterblock to make it AM2 compatible. End of story :]

 

[SuperU21]

This is all excellent information so far, I'm gonna be overclocking an Opteron 165 and *might* think about putting my X1900XTX in the loop since its insanely loud @ 100% fanspeed.

The case I have is an Antec P180, am I going to be limited with options by using this case?

So far I'm really looking to dig into a custom setup since I'm going to want the best performance I can get my hands on

 

[Snerp]

Originally posted by: Makubex GB

Originally posted by: Snerp

Originally posted by: Makubex GB

Originally posted by: Snerp

Originally posted by: Makubex GB
Ah yes, ramsinks. I recommend pure copper ramsinks, my personal favorite are the Swiftech MC14 VGA Forged Copper Ramsinks.

I must ask, how do you plan on getting the MC14 RAMsinks on that video card with the LP MAZE 4?

The BIP does bring down your flow. I have talked to plenty of people about this exact issue.

There is no reason to get the MCW 6002 over the Apogee. The Storm, Apogee, give basically the same temps.

Actually take a look at everything before you tell me I am wrong.

You have to file down or cut down three ramsinks like I did.

I have also talked to plenty of people and seen plenty of charts and the BIP doesn't not bring down your flow to a degree that it will noticeably raise your temps. The choice between a BIP or a BIX depends on the fans you'll be using, not on flow restriction.

As for the CPU Block recommendation:

See Pic: http://www.systemcooling.com/images/rev...Cooling/Swiftech_Apogee/image27big.gif

I did take a look, and you're wrong.

No dude...you took a look at a chart. You didn't read what I was saying about flow rates on the D5 correctly.

You obviously didn't read the entire article you linked that chart from (which can be found HERE) which give the end results. All of the blocks come in at basically the same temp. So don't tell me I am wrong.

Explain to me what benefits the LP has over the original MAZE 4 GPU block which makes it in your opinion a far superior block. Also please let me know how cutting the RAMsinks down further for the LP make the RAMsinks better.

As far as tubing goes, MasterKleer has just as good of flexibility, it doesn't stain like Tygon, and it goes for $.69/ft rather than $2+.

FYI I have read a lot about the Apogee, and it is a step backwards for Swiftech. It's not bad, but it's not better. Especially when the CPU's I H S is off. How about you explain to me, since you obviously read the whole article and many others, how the Apogee can perform as good as the Storm.

Who said that cutting the ramsinks made them better? It just makes them fit "dude". The benefit of having the LP Maze4 is greatly appreciated when you have a dual video card configuration, or any other close PCI cards. But mostly because of dual VGA. That's why I recommend it.

As for tubing I also recommended ClearFLEX60 which is also cheap. I prefer them both over MasterKleer primarily because they offer 1/2" ID - 3/8" OD. The 1/8" thickness helps even more in preventing kinking. MasterKleer maybe good, but is NOT just as good in bending when compared to these.

That is my point.... you have read. I have actually compared real world results. The Apogee will out perform the Storm in some cases as aigomorla has said. It depends on the exact setup and every single part differs from the next.

That 1/2" ID - 3/8" OD must be some rare stuff. I can't find it anywhere. :roll:

Actually MasterKleer is more flexible than Clearflex and yes they do sell masterkleer with 1/8" wall thickness. I'll link you a chart a little later since you seem to like those.

 

[Snerp]

Originally posted by: SuperU21
This is all excellent information so far, I'm gonna be overclocking an Opteron 165 and *might* think about putting my X1900XTX in the loop since its insanely loud @ 100% fanspeed.

The case I have is an Antec P180, am I going to be limited with options by using this case?

So far I'm really looking to dig into a custom setup since I'm going to want the best performance I can get my hands on

You can make it work. You can fit water cooling in any case if you want it bad enough. I packed a Dual Heatercore in a Mid ATX by chopping it up and pulling all my 3.5" drive bays out.

On the other hand you could sell that P180 for a decent amount of money on the forums here or on ebay and then you could buy a refurbished CM Stacker off of ebay directly from CM for about $70 shipped. That's how I got my stacker and it was perfect. I'm putting a 3X120mm rad in the front of mine.

 

[Makubex GB]

Originally posted by: Snerp

Originally posted by: Makubex GB

Originally posted by: Snerp

Originally posted by: Makubex GB

Originally posted by: Snerp

Originally posted by: Makubex GB
Ah yes, ramsinks. I recommend pure copper ramsinks, my personal favorite are the Swiftech MC14 VGA Forged Copper Ramsinks.

I must ask, how do you plan on getting the MC14 RAMsinks on that video card with the LP MAZE 4?

The BIP does bring down your flow. I have talked to plenty of people about this exact issue.

There is no reason to get the MCW 6002 over the Apogee. The Storm, Apogee, give basically the same temps.

Actually take a look at everything before you tell me I am wrong.

You have to file down or cut down three ramsinks like I did.

I have also talked to plenty of people and seen plenty of charts and the BIP doesn't not bring down your flow to a degree that it will noticeably raise your temps. The choice between a BIP or a BIX depends on the fans you'll be using, not on flow restriction.

As for the CPU Block recommendation:

See Pic: http://www.systemcooling.com/images/rev...Cooling/Swiftech_Apogee/image27big.gif

I did take a look, and you're wrong.

No dude...you took a look at a chart. You didn't read what I was saying about flow rates on the D5 correctly.

You obviously didn't read the entire article you linked that chart from (which can be found HERE) which give the end results. All of the blocks come in at basically the same temp. So don't tell me I am wrong.

Explain to me what benefits the LP has over the original MAZE 4 GPU block which makes it in your opinion a far superior block. Also please let me know how cutting the RAMsinks down further for the LP make the RAMsinks better.

As far as tubing goes, MasterKleer has just as good of flexibility, it doesn't stain like Tygon, and it goes for $.69/ft rather than $2+.

FYI I have read a lot about the Apogee, and it is a step backwards for Swiftech. It's not bad, but it's not better. Especially when the CPU's I H S is off. How about you explain to me, since you obviously read the whole article and many others, how the Apogee can perform as good as the Storm.

Who said that cutting the ramsinks made them better? It just makes them fit "dude". The benefit of having the LP Maze4 is greatly appreciated when you have a dual video card configuration, or any other close PCI cards. But mostly because of dual VGA. That's why I recommend it.

As for tubing I also recommended ClearFLEX60 which is also cheap. I prefer them both over MasterKleer primarily because they offer 1/2" ID - 3/8" OD. The 1/8" thickness helps even more in preventing kinking. MasterKleer maybe good, but is NOT just as good in bending when compared to these.

That is my point.... you have read. I have actually compared real world results. The Apogee will out perform the Storm in some cases as aigomorla has said. It depends on the exact setup and every single part differs from the next.

That 1/2" ID - 3/8" OD must be some rare stuff. I can't find it anywhere. :roll:

Actually MasterKleer is more flexible than Clearflex and yes they do sell masterkleer with 1/8" wall thickness. I'll link you a chart a little later since you seem to like those.

I see, before you were saying that you talked to a lot of people, now you say you tested in real life... ya :roll:. And yes, I know it depends on the configuration, but we are not talking about specific moments in specific setups. We are talking about the overall performance, because we don't know what's the next person's exact situation. Overall the Storm can noticeably outperform the Apogee. If you wanna talk about specific situations, take the IHS off the CPU, put in a high flow pump and test both blocks, tell me then if the Apogee performs as good as the Storm.

You know I meant 1/2" ID - 3/4" OD. Don't link me a chart, link me a store! I have yet to find a store that sells 1/2" ID - 3/4" OD masterkleer tubing.

 

[Makubex GB]

Originally posted by: aigomorla

Originally posted by: Makubex GB

Originally posted by: Snerp

Originally posted by: Makubex GB

Originally posted by: Snerp

Originally posted by: Makubex GB
Ah yes, ramsinks. I recommend pure copper ramsinks, my personal favorite are the Swiftech MC14 VGA Forged Copper Ramsinks.

I must ask, how do you plan on getting the MC14 RAMsinks on that video card with the LP MAZE 4?

The BIP does bring down your flow. I have talked to plenty of people about this exact issue.

There is no reason to get the MCW 6002 over the Apogee. The Storm, Apogee, give basically the same temps.

Actually take a look at everything before you tell me I am wrong.

You have to file down or cut down three ramsinks like I did.

I have also talked to plenty of people and seen plenty of charts and the BIP doesn't not bring down your flow to a degree that it will noticeably raise your temps. The choice between a BIP or a BIX depends on the fans you'll be using, not on flow restriction.

As for the CPU Block recommendation:

See Pic: http://www.systemcooling.com/images/rev...Cooling/Swiftech_Apogee/image27big.gif

I did take a look, and you're wrong.

No dude...you took a look at a chart. You didn't read what I was saying about flow rates on the D5 correctly.

You obviously didn't read the entire article you linked that chart from (which can be found HERE) which give the end results. All of the blocks come in at basically the same temp. So don't tell me I am wrong.

Explain to me what benefits the LP has over the original MAZE 4 GPU block which makes it in your opinion a far superior block. Also please let me know how cutting the RAMsinks down further for the LP make the RAMsinks better.

As far as tubing goes, MasterKleer has just as good of flexibility, it doesn't stain like Tygon, and it goes for $.69/ft rather than $2+.

FYI I have read a lot about the Apogee, and it is a step backwards for Swiftech. It's not bad, but it's not better. Especially when the CPU's I H S is off. How about you explain to me, since you obviously read the whole article and many others, how the Apogee can perform as good as the Storm.

Who said that cutting the ramsinks made them better? It just makes them fit "dude". The benefit of having the LP Maze4 is greatly appreciated when you have a dual video card configuration, or any other close PCI cards. But mostly because of dual VGA. That's why I recommend it.

As for tubing I also recommended ClearFLEX60 which is also cheap. I prefer them both over MasterKleer primarily because they offer 1/2" ID - 3/8" OD. The 1/8" thickness helps even more in preventing kinking. MasterKleer maybe good, but is NOT just as good in bending when compared to these.

OKEY. First off the RADBOX is not usless. Im currently using it on my system on a 2x120 radiator. Its nice because my radbox is outside and its pulling cold air from a window right behind it.

Next thing, i had the storm rev.1 I did some reading on the apogee so i decided hellz why not try it. Compared to my storm rev.1 the apogee is a little better. Dont ask me why, but it is. My idle temps are at 27, load temps doesnt break 38. This is with 2 video cards in the loop btw.

Compared to the storm rev.2 i think the apogee will lose. Im currently waiting for my rev.2 chamber upgrade for my storm, but dont discount the apogee, its a fairly nice block.

Also, dont discredit swiftech. so what if the AM2 platform comes out? if you buy there storm or apogee, im almost sure that within a matter of weeks, swiftech will come with a base plate adaptor that u can just addon to your waterblock to make it AM2 compatible. End of story :]

If you're getting a huge case like the one Bateluer is planning on the radbox becomes pretty useless. And it would be wise not to use that single 120mm radbox on a dual 120 Rad because with such a big case because he could place it somewhere where it would be able to perform better, look better and not be as ubstructed as it is when placed at the back with a single 120mm radbox. It's almost always better to have the fans blowing at the rad than sucking on it.

Next thing, as for the Storm vs Apogee, check above post. That's what happened in your specific situation. But like I said I'm talking about overall performance, because each of our situations (blocks, room temps, pump power, restrictiveness, etc) are different. The engineering of the Apogee is not as good as the Storm. It's not bad, but on their best the Storm will outperform the Apogee.

I'm not discrediting Swiftech, he said he was going to get it all by August, so why spend more money on adapter if the new sockets are coming out by that time?

End of Story.

 

[Snerp]

Originally posted by: Makubex GB

Originally posted by: Snerp

Originally posted by: Makubex GB

Originally posted by: Snerp

Originally posted by: Makubex GB

Originally posted by: Snerp

Originally posted by: Makubex GB
Ah yes, ramsinks. I recommend pure copper ramsinks, my personal favorite are the Swiftech MC14 VGA Forged Copper Ramsinks.

I must ask, how do you plan on getting the MC14 RAMsinks on that video card with the LP MAZE 4?

The BIP does bring down your flow. I have talked to plenty of people about this exact issue.

There is no reason to get the MCW 6002 over the Apogee. The Storm, Apogee, give basically the same temps.

Actually take a look at everything before you tell me I am wrong.

You have to file down or cut down three ramsinks like I did.

I have also talked to plenty of people and seen plenty of charts and the BIP doesn't not bring down your flow to a degree that it will noticeably raise your temps. The choice between a BIP or a BIX depends on the fans you'll be using, not on flow restriction.

As for the CPU Block recommendation:

See Pic: http://www.systemcooling.com/images/rev...Cooling/Swiftech_Apogee/image27big.gif

I did take a look, and you're wrong.

No dude...you took a look at a chart. You didn't read what I was saying about flow rates on the D5 correctly.

You obviously didn't read the entire article you linked that chart from (which can be found HERE) which give the end results. All of the blocks come in at basically the same temp. So don't tell me I am wrong.

Explain to me what benefits the LP has over the original MAZE 4 GPU block which makes it in your opinion a far superior block. Also please let me know how cutting the RAMsinks down further for the LP make the RAMsinks better.

As far as tubing goes, MasterKleer has just as good of flexibility, it doesn't stain like Tygon, and it goes for $.69/ft rather than $2+.

FYI I have read a lot about the Apogee, and it is a step backwards for Swiftech. It's not bad, but it's not better. Especially when the CPU's I H S is off. How about you explain to me, since you obviously read the whole article and many others, how the Apogee can perform as good as the Storm.

Who said that cutting the ramsinks made them better? It just makes them fit "dude". The benefit of having the LP Maze4 is greatly appreciated when you have a dual video card configuration, or any other close PCI cards. But mostly because of dual VGA. That's why I recommend it.

As for tubing I also recommended ClearFLEX60 which is also cheap. I prefer them both over MasterKleer primarily because they offer 1/2" ID - 3/8" OD. The 1/8" thickness helps even more in preventing kinking. MasterKleer maybe good, but is NOT just as good in bending when compared to these.

That is my point.... you have read. I have actually compared real world results. The Apogee will out perform the Storm in some cases as aigomorla has said. It depends on the exact setup and every single part differs from the next.

That 1/2" ID - 3/8" OD must be some rare stuff. I can't find it anywhere. :roll:

Actually MasterKleer is more flexible than Clearflex and yes they do sell masterkleer with 1/8" wall thickness. I'll link you a chart a little later since you seem to like those.

I see, before you were saying that you talked to a lot of people, now you say you tested in real life... ya :roll:. And yes, I know it depends on the configuration, but we are not talking about specific moments in specific setups. We are talking about the overall performance, because we don't know what's the next person's exact situation. Overall the Storm can noticeably outperform the Apogee. If you wanna talk about specific situations, take the IHS off the CPU, put in a high flow pump and test both blocks, tell me then if the Apogee performs as good as the Storm.

You know I meant 1/2" ID - 3/4" OD. Don't link me a chart, link me a store! I have yet to find a store that sells 1/2" ID - 3/4" OD masterkleer tubing.

Yes I talked to people who have had both, which is a lot more creditable then looking at charts. I said nothing about taking the IHS off and nothing of one moment in a system. I too am talking of overall performance. If by noticeably outperform you mean by 1C then yes you are right, but that doesn't justify spending $40 imo and I can't recommend the storm to someone who is trying to get the best bang for the buck

HERE is your store.

Originally posted by: Makubex GB

If you're getting a huge case like the one Bateluer is planning on the radbox becomes pretty useless. And it would be wise not to use that single 120mm radbox on a dual 120 Rad because with such a big case because he could place it somewhere where it would be able to perform better, look better and not be as ubstructed as it is when placed at the back with a single 120mm radbox. It's almost always better to have the fans blowing at the rad than sucking on it.

Next thing, as for the Storm vs Apogee, check above post. That's what happened in your specific situation. But like I said I'm talking about overall performance, because each of our situations (blocks, room temps, pump power, restrictiveness, etc) are different. The engineering of the Apogee is not as good as the Storm. It's not bad, but on their best the Storm will outperform the Apogee.

I'm not discrediting Swiftech, he said he was going to get it all by August, so why spend more money on adapter if the new sockets are coming out by that time?

End of Story.

No, it is not better to have the fans blowing on the rad. That is just plain wrong. You get about 2C cooler having them pull air through the rad. There is nothing wrong with using the radbox and it will not decrease performance. Guessing at results will get you nowhere.

Please read that article that you linked that chart from. The end results had the Apogee 1C behind the storm at one tem time and at the exact degree the second. Your storm doesn't beat the pants off the apogee.

I would get some additive in that system of yours if that is full before you get some algae build-up in there.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: Snerp

Originally posted by: Makubex GB

Originally posted by: Snerp

Originally posted by: Makubex GB

Originally posted by: Snerp

Originally posted by: Makubex GB

Originally posted by: Snerp

Originally posted by: Makubex GB
Ah yes, ramsinks. I recommend pure copper ramsinks, my personal favorite are the Swiftech MC14 VGA Forged Copper Ramsinks.

I must ask, how do you plan on getting the MC14 RAMsinks on that video card with the LP MAZE 4?

The BIP does bring down your flow. I have talked to plenty of people about this exact issue.

There is no reason to get the MCW 6002 over the Apogee. The Storm, Apogee, give basically the same temps.

Actually take a look at everything before you tell me I am wrong.

You have to file down or cut down three ramsinks like I did.

I have also talked to plenty of people and seen plenty of charts and the BIP doesn't not bring down your flow to a degree that it will noticeably raise your temps. The choice between a BIP or a BIX depends on the fans you'll be using, not on flow restriction.

As for the CPU Block recommendation:

See Pic: http://www.systemcooling.com/images/rev...Cooling/Swiftech_Apogee/image27big.gif

I did take a look, and you're wrong.

No dude...you took a look at a chart. You didn't read what I was saying about flow rates on the D5 correctly.

You obviously didn't read the entire article you linked that chart from (which can be found HERE) which give the end results. All of the blocks come in at basically the same temp. So don't tell me I am wrong.

Explain to me what benefits the LP has over the original MAZE 4 GPU block which makes it in your opinion a far superior block. Also please let me know how cutting the RAMsinks down further for the LP make the RAMsinks better.

As far as tubing goes, MasterKleer has just as good of flexibility, it doesn't stain like Tygon, and it goes for $.69/ft rather than $2+.

FYI I have read a lot about the Apogee, and it is a step backwards for Swiftech. It's not bad, but it's not better. Especially when the CPU's I H S is off. How about you explain to me, since you obviously read the whole article and many others, how the Apogee can perform as good as the Storm.

Who said that cutting the ramsinks made them better? It just makes them fit "dude". The benefit of having the LP Maze4 is greatly appreciated when you have a dual video card configuration, or any other close PCI cards. But mostly because of dual VGA. That's why I recommend it.

As for tubing I also recommended ClearFLEX60 which is also cheap. I prefer them both over MasterKleer primarily because they offer 1/2" ID - 3/8" OD. The 1/8" thickness helps even more in preventing kinking. MasterKleer maybe good, but is NOT just as good in bending when compared to these.

That is my point.... you have read. I have actually compared real world results. The Apogee will out perform the Storm in some cases as aigomorla has said. It depends on the exact setup and every single part differs from the next.

That 1/2" ID - 3/8" OD must be some rare stuff. I can't find it anywhere. :roll:

Actually MasterKleer is more flexible than Clearflex and yes they do sell masterkleer with 1/8" wall thickness. I'll link you a chart a little later since you seem to like those.

I see, before you were saying that you talked to a lot of people, now you say you tested in real life... ya :roll:. And yes, I know it depends on the configuration, but we are not talking about specific moments in specific setups. We are talking about the overall performance, because we don't know what's the next person's exact situation. Overall the Storm can noticeably outperform the Apogee. If you wanna talk about specific situations, take the IHS off the CPU, put in a high flow pump and test both blocks, tell me then if the Apogee performs as good as the Storm.

You know I meant 1/2" ID - 3/4" OD. Don't link me a chart, link me a store! I have yet to find a store that sells 1/2" ID - 3/4" OD masterkleer tubing.

Yes I talked to people who have had both, which is a lot more creditable then looking at charts. I said nothing about taking the IHS off and nothing of one moment in a system. I too am talking of overall performance. If by noticeably outperform you mean by 1C then yes you are right, but that doesn't justify spending $40 imo and I can't recommend the storm to someone who is trying to get the best bang for the buck

HERE is your store.

Originally posted by: Makubex GB

If you're getting a huge case like the one Bateluer is planning on the radbox becomes pretty useless. And it would be wise not to use that single 120mm radbox on a dual 120 Rad because with such a big case because he could place it somewhere where it would be able to perform better, look better and not be as ubstructed as it is when placed at the back with a single 120mm radbox. It's almost always better to have the fans blowing at the rad than sucking on it.

Next thing, as for the Storm vs Apogee, check above post. That's what happened in your specific situation. But like I said I'm talking about overall performance, because each of our situations (blocks, room temps, pump power, restrictiveness, etc) are different. The engineering of the Apogee is not as good as the Storm. It's not bad, but on their best the Storm will outperform the Apogee.

I'm not discrediting Swiftech, he said he was going to get it all by August, so why spend more money on adapter if the new sockets are coming out by that time?

End of Story.

No, it is not better to have the fans blowing on the rad. That is just plain wrong. You get about 2C cooler having them pull air through the rad. There is nothing wrong with using the radbox and it will not decrease performance. Guessing at results will get you nowhere.

Please read that article that you linked that chart from. The end results had the Apogee 1C behind the storm at one tem time and at the exact degree the second. Your storm doesn't beat the pants off the apogee.

I would get some additive in that system of yours if that is full before you get some algae build-up in there.

He's talking about with IHS removed. The storm was optimized for IHS removal cooling, while the Apogee was probably optimized for cooling with the IHS. Personally i dont like cutting up my CPU's so my IHS was never removed. Either way, i hear the rev.2 will take account to IHS and cool better then apogee, when i get my rev.2 i'll let u guys know. :]

 

[Bateluer]

I do intend to wait until AM2 is released to see what will work and what won't. As I said, I won't be building this setup until August.
Regardless, the rad, pump, VGA block, tubes, etc, should all work.
The main thing is the CPU block, it needs to support AM2. Even though it could probably be juryrigged, thats not really a route I want to go down when building a 2k+ system.

 

[Painman]

Storm Rev. 2 knocked an extra 1.5º C off my idle-load delta vs. Apogee - rest of my loop consists of: MCP655 pump @ 3.5 setting, MCW60 VGA block, MCR220 dual rad with 2x Panaflo L1A @ 7 volts. The chip tested was an A64 3700+ @ 2750 MHz @ 1.47V, IHS intact, testing method was S&M 15 minute FPU burn test - hottest torture test I know of.

Everyone's mileage may vary, typically the Storm *is* a tad better on a non-stripped chip, but not by a huge margin. whether that margin is worth the extra $ is up to the buyer/builder.

 

[soloz2]

probably the best kit on the market is the Swiftech Apex Ultra, but you can get the same performance w/ a custom setup for cheaper. Some of the suggestions above are good.

I've got:
Swiftech Apogee cpu block
Polarflo TT gpu block (maze 4 hardware)
Swiftech MCP655 pump
dual heater core w/ 2x tt thunderblade fans
dd single 5/14" clear bay res
7/16" ID masterkleer tubing
distilled water w/ 5% zerex and some uv blue dye

 

[Bateluer]

Perhaps the biggest reason for going with a premade kit is that the kits will come with a comprehensive manual.
For those of us new to water cooling, an instruction manual will be a boon. I don't want to drop almost 2300 dollars building a new system, only
to jack it up by botching a water cooler installation.

Though, I believe I have the gist of how a WC setup works, and that each component will have its only guide, the kit's manual will tell you how
the whole thing fits together.

If AM2 blows, I'll build a nice s939 system and hold out for DDR3. But, if the costs between the two systems are similar, I'll go with the AM2 platform
for the longer upgrade path.

 

[Makubex GB]

Originally posted by: Snerp

Originally posted by: Makubex GB

Originally posted by: Snerp

Originally posted by: Makubex GB

Originally posted by: Snerp

Originally posted by: Makubex GB

Originally posted by: Snerp

Originally posted by: Makubex GB
Ah yes, ramsinks. I recommend pure copper ramsinks, my personal favorite are the Swiftech MC14 VGA Forged Copper Ramsinks.

I must ask, how do you plan on getting the MC14 RAMsinks on that video card with the LP MAZE 4?

The BIP does bring down your flow. I have talked to plenty of people about this exact issue.

There is no reason to get the MCW 6002 over the Apogee. The Storm, Apogee, give basically the same temps.

Actually take a look at everything before you tell me I am wrong.

You have to file down or cut down three ramsinks like I did.

I have also talked to plenty of people and seen plenty of charts and the BIP doesn't not bring down your flow to a degree that it will noticeably raise your temps. The choice between a BIP or a BIX depends on the fans you'll be using, not on flow restriction.

As for the CPU Block recommendation:

See Pic: http://www.systemcooling.com/images/rev...Cooling/Swiftech_Apogee/image27big.gif

I did take a look, and you're wrong.

No dude...you took a look at a chart. You didn't read what I was saying about flow rates on the D5 correctly.

You obviously didn't read the entire article you linked that chart from (which can be found HERE) which give the end results. All of the blocks come in at basically the same temp. So don't tell me I am wrong.

Explain to me what benefits the LP has over the original MAZE 4 GPU block which makes it in your opinion a far superior block. Also please let me know how cutting the RAMsinks down further for the LP make the RAMsinks better.

As far as tubing goes, MasterKleer has just as good of flexibility, it doesn't stain like Tygon, and it goes for $.69/ft rather than $2+.

FYI I have read a lot about the Apogee, and it is a step backwards for Swiftech. It's not bad, but it's not better. Especially when the CPU's I H S is off. How about you explain to me, since you obviously read the whole article and many others, how the Apogee can perform as good as the Storm.

Who said that cutting the ramsinks made them better? It just makes them fit "dude". The benefit of having the LP Maze4 is greatly appreciated when you have a dual video card configuration, or any other close PCI cards. But mostly because of dual VGA. That's why I recommend it.

As for tubing I also recommended ClearFLEX60 which is also cheap. I prefer them both over MasterKleer primarily because they offer 1/2" ID - 3/8" OD. The 1/8" thickness helps even more in preventing kinking. MasterKleer maybe good, but is NOT just as good in bending when compared to these.

That is my point.... you have read. I have actually compared real world results. The Apogee will out perform the Storm in some cases as aigomorla has said. It depends on the exact setup and every single part differs from the next.

That 1/2" ID - 3/8" OD must be some rare stuff. I can't find it anywhere. :roll:

Actually MasterKleer is more flexible than Clearflex and yes they do sell masterkleer with 1/8" wall thickness. I'll link you a chart a little later since you seem to like those.

I see, before you were saying that you talked to a lot of people, now you say you tested in real life... ya :roll:. And yes, I know it depends on the configuration, but we are not talking about specific moments in specific setups. We are talking about the overall performance, because we don't know what's the next person's exact situation. Overall the Storm can noticeably outperform the Apogee. If you wanna talk about specific situations, take the IHS off the CPU, put in a high flow pump and test both blocks, tell me then if the Apogee performs as good as the Storm.

You know I meant 1/2" ID - 3/4" OD. Don't link me a chart, link me a store! I have yet to find a store that sells 1/2" ID - 3/4" OD masterkleer tubing.

Yes I talked to people who have had both, which is a lot more creditable then looking at charts. I said nothing about taking the IHS off and nothing of one moment in a system. I too am talking of overall performance. If by noticeably outperform you mean by 1C then yes you are right, but that doesn't justify spending $40 imo and I can't recommend the storm to someone who is trying to get the best bang for the buck

HERE is your store.

Originally posted by: Makubex GB

If you're getting a huge case like the one Bateluer is planning on the radbox becomes pretty useless. And it would be wise not to use that single 120mm radbox on a dual 120 Rad because with such a big case because he could place it somewhere where it would be able to perform better, look better and not be as ubstructed as it is when placed at the back with a single 120mm radbox. It's almost always better to have the fans blowing at the rad than sucking on it.

Next thing, as for the Storm vs Apogee, check above post. That's what happened in your specific situation. But like I said I'm talking about overall performance, because each of our situations (blocks, room temps, pump power, restrictiveness, etc) are different. The engineering of the Apogee is not as good as the Storm. It's not bad, but on their best the Storm will outperform the Apogee.

I'm not discrediting Swiftech, he said he was going to get it all by August, so why spend more money on adapter if the new sockets are coming out by that time?

End of Story.

No, it is not better to have the fans blowing on the rad. That is just plain wrong. You get about 2C cooler having them pull air through the rad. There is nothing wrong with using the radbox and it will not decrease performance. Guessing at results will get you nowhere.

Please read that article that you linked that chart from. The end results had the Apogee 1C behind the storm at one tem time and at the exact degree the second. Your storm doesn't beat the pants off the apogee.

I would get some additive in that system of yours if that is full before you get some algae build-up in there.

Sorry for my tardy reply.

Hey, thanks for the store link, though I think shipping to PR will be a bit on the expensive side.

Ok, let's begin.

I recommended setting the fans to push instead of pull because that's what has worked best for me, for rads and for CPU heatsinks, but the truth is neither is always the best choice. It really depends on a number of factors like location of the rad, the fans, the type of rad, noise level wanted, etc. There's usually very little difference in temps between push and pull. A difference of 2C it's VERY unlikely.

FYI I did read the article, and if you did read it yourself you'll see that those end result you talk about are just one of many test. Besides that is just a test of their specific setup, what wanted to show you is how the overall performance of the Storm and the MCW6002 is better than the Apogee, which is why I recommended them and NOT the Apogee. I never said they would beat the pans off the Apogee as you said and if the Storm is worth $40 more is up to the buyer and irrelevant to this discussion.

Thank you aigomorla, that's exactly what I meant. Snerp, please read more carefully, I never said you said anything about taking the IHS off, what I said was, that since you were talking about specific situations with specific results, then one situation where you can really see the Storm considerably outperform the Apogee is when testing it on a CPU without IHS. Or you could try a loop with a week pump, which is another of the Apogee's weaknesses.

Overall the Storm and the MCW6002 are better blocks than the Apogee which is why I recommended them. One is about twice the price and the other about the same price of the Apogee, it's up to the buyer.

And thanks for your advice, but my loop already has an additive to prevent algae.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: Bateluer
Perhaps the biggest reason for going with a premade kit is that the kits will come with a comprehensive manual.
For those of us new to water cooling, an instruction manual will be a boon. I don't want to drop almost 2300 dollars building a new system, only
to jack it up by botching a water cooler installation.

Though, I believe I have the gist of how a WC setup works, and that each component will have its only guide, the kit's manual will tell you how
the whole thing fits together.

If AM2 blows, I'll build a nice s939 system and hold out for DDR3. But, if the costs between the two systems are similar, I'll go with the AM2 platform
for the longer upgrade path.

uhh comprehensive manual.... hehe... okey, its true i suggest you always read the manual, but you should of done a lot of research on the web already on the mounting, bleeding, leak testing the loop, the manual becomes pretty much usless. I think the first time i set up a water loop, i read, and re read, hell i even took the stupid manual with me while i sat on the thrown, but after the third, and once i get my storm rev. 2, my 4th time rigging the system up, i think i wont need to look at that thing anymore.

Kits are nice because you dont have to worry about getting enough fittings, going to the hard ware store for tubing, hell even the clamps come in most kits. its just a straight out of the box install, with a lot of planning on how your going to do your loops.

:]

 

[Bateluer]

Originally posted by: aigomorla

uhh comprehensive manual.... hehe... okey, its true i suggest you always read the manual, but you should of done a lot of research on the web already on the mounting, bleeding, leak testing the loop, the manual becomes pretty much usless. I think the first time i set up a water loop, i read, and re read, hell i even took the stupid manual with me while i sat on the thrown, but after the third, and once i get my storm rev. 2, my 4th time rigging the system up, i think i wont need to look at that thing anymore.

Kits are nice because you dont have to worry about getting enough fittings, going to the hard ware store for tubing, hell even the clamps come in most kits. its just a straight out of the box install, with a lot of planning on how your going to do your loops.

:]

Err, whats a good place to read up bleeding, leak testing, etc? Trial and error is probably a bad thing.