Better method to view games on a NTSC monitor

[videobruce]

I gave up on the video out chips on these cards.
They did not give enought, if any, sizing options to work with most TV monitors!
It also slowed down the cards performance using the dual view ot twin view option on the cards that have it. The newer nVidiea chips don't have it anyway as far as I know.
I needed BOTH monitors on, not one OR the other.
The limited 800x600 was not acceptable to me either. Some monitors wouldn't be able to take advantage of the higher resolution but it would'nt cause a problem either.

I went to a SEPARATE converter from Grandeview (Aten sells one also among others) called the Ultimate XP. This was not slated to be sold in the US but I got it directly from Grandeview and it seems to work OK.
The cable they call a 'H' cable doesn't work though!
It smears the vid going into the computer monitor terribly!
I had to get a DA (distrubition amp) or active splitter from Aten model VS132 (the better of the two they sell), to split the signal off the video card to the monitor and to the converter.

The nice thing is the video cards settings you don't change, you set the XP up the way you want it, it can remember the settings and you are good to go. No resizing the desktop or changing refresh rates, no sutting the computer monitor off so the NTSC monitor would work, they are both on at the same time and there isn't the proformance penalty using the twin view/dual view faeture or the size limitation. It will work up to 1280x1024 NOT just 800x600 like the built in chip opn the video card limits you to.

Total cost: under $300 including the converter, splitter and cables.
(I got it for under $200)

The Aten gets power from the included brick transformer, the Grandeview gets it from the keyboard connector with the supplied cable that goes in line with the keyboard.
It's kinda a mess behind the computer with the extra cables. I used a 'Y' XGA cable from the Aten to the Grandeview to elimate the 6' XGA cable, but used a 6' XGA cable from the card to the Aten.

The Aten DA I would recomend very highly. The Grandeview Ultimate XP, maybe.....if they would redesign the unit with a XGA in and out instead of tring to FUBARing the signal with their 'H' cable!
Aten does make a converter that should elimate the DA, but it has limited size settings (only 2 as far as I know, the same problem as the cards, so you wouldn't be much ahead).
I know there are other XGA to NTSC converters out there, some expensive.
If anyone else knows of anything that works without spending hundreds of dollars (after all you DID spend $300 for the card... didn't you?????) let me know.

 

[rbV5]

<< If anyone else knows of anything that works without spending hundreds of dollars >>



Option #1
Get a cheap Radeon or Matrox card with TV/out for $50, and forget that mess.

Option #2
Get a digital TV and a Radeon 8500dv and wait for the DVI>component-video out dongle from ATI

Option #3
Purchase a VGA>component video adapter for about $300

Option #4
TV-Gold scan converter

Option #5
By a high end TV with VGA input.

Option #6
Hook your TV to the cable box/satellite dish, DVD player.


Options #1 or #6 fit your budget, and work very well.

 

[videobruce]

Please re-read my article.

Option #1 and #3 is the reason I went this route.............both unaceptable!
Option #6 has NOTHING to do with what I'm talking about! I'm not talking about watching TV, I'm talking about watching the output of a computer on a NTCS monitor, namely a projection TV with S video inputs.
Option #2 involves something most sets don't have, including mine: component video!
Option #5: as far as a monitor with XGA inputs...........too expensive, not a option!

The ONLY thing that might be interesting is #4.
What is a TV-Gold scan converter?

 

[rbV5]

<< Please re-read my article >>



I read it, I have trouble following it.

It sounds like you really haven't tried #1, because the Radeon and Matrox cards handle TV-out differently than nVidia cards. The Matrox has excellent TV-out, but mediocre gaming. The Radeon cards have excellent TV-out and gaming, I use mine for gaming and watching Video, and both monitors are on. The 7500 and 8500 Radeon cards allow different Resolutions and refresh rates in ME/XP so you can work on your monitor, while watching DVD's on your TV, and the Rage Theater chip which handles TV out is seperate of your GPU, so gaming isn't affected by using TV-out (unless you're playing a DVD on your TV-out which would use CPU cycles)
You may want to research this further, I find mine more than adequate, and it looks great on my 32" TV with the S-video connection. The newer radeon's support up to 1024x768 as well.



<< What is a TV-Gold scan converter? >>



Scan converters take your VGA signal and convert it to NTSC(or Pal) for tv-out. They have a variety of models and prices, I've heard the TV Gold model is pretty good, try a search engine for "scan converters"



<< I'm talking about watching the output of a computer on a NTCS monitor, namely a projection TV with S video inputs. >>



Obviously, thats why I made my suggestions, but be aware that Projection TV's are extremely succeptable to burn-in, few models are actually suitable for anything other than movies unless you like reading that high score you got on your video game for the life of your screen.

Also, go to the AVS Forum, lots of HTPC info there.

 

[videobruce]

I am familar with Maxtor. I had the G200. Yes, its very poor at games and good for graphics/videos, that's why it's one of the leading graphics/video edition solutions out there. But for games they stink.
For ATI, I never used one, all I see is a massive amounts of driver problems in many different forums that I have read.
But as for both, they are limited to 800x600 ( I asked ATI about their cards and was told they were limited to 800x600, even the 8500!) with little adjustment for size which is the sticking point. I do not like a large border around my screen and the simple underscan/overscan choice doesn't cut it!!!!!!!

I know what a scan converter, that's what I am using!!! I did not know what a TV-Gold was!

Projections TV's for the most part do NOT have a burn problem. I have had 3 and never had a problem (2 were 8-10 years old!). Also I sold them for over 3 years and the issue never came up. Of course if you drive them to their max with the contrast full anmd brightness down I guess if you left a ststic image on the screen long enough a burn might result, not any more so than a conventional TV.........they both use CRT's!!!
I will do a search for TV Gold. What is this HTPC you mention?

 

[Workin']

<< What is this HTPC you mention? >>

Home Theater Personal Computer

TView Gold scan converter costs US$180 and supports up to 1600x1200 resolution. And looks very very good. We just got one here in the office.

And ATI drivers aren't nearly as bad as the whiners make it sound. Actually, current ATI drivers are about as reliable as current nvidia drivers. And ATI lets you change the image size displayed on TV, etc. With mine I can vary the image size to be anywhere between moderate underscan to sligh overscan.

Seeems like you took the "Engineer's Motto" to heart for this one - "Why make it simple when it can be complicated."

 

[MADCAP]

I've also got to chime in and say go with the newer ATI cards. Also you can use a tweaker program to unlock even more resolutions. You can set the res to an ungodly amount of resolutions with these.

 

[Wolfsraider]

my .02 cents worth?

Projections TV's for the most part do NOT have a burn problem. I have had 3 and never had a problem (2 were 8-10 years old!). Also I sold them for over 3 years and the issue never came up.

don't know but i have read that they did/do.


same as you here>For ATI, I never used one, all I see is a massive amounts of driver problems in many different forums that I have read

so i guess the morale of my story is: Don't believe everything you read!

I do own two ati cards and had another in a now sold computer.

they do have great graphics and anybody can put there .02 cents here

as far as driver issues ? the only issues i ever had with ati were:xp came out, no new drivers
(name a company that has never had these type of problems?)

and when i first tried to load drivers for the first ati card lol i didn't read the instructions
so a typical 2 minute driver install had me working for hours but after reading the instructions i found out that if you set it up after another card then you needed to uninstall back to a standard
pci or agp graphics adapter then shut down and install ati and then load drivers

this was the hardest thing i ever ran into with ati

although i didn't know win xp loaded all drivers at setup without needing to load the disk drivers and i crashed xp 3 times and re-installed as many times due to not rtfm (reading the _____ Manual lol

ati's fault or mine you decide i happen to believe that ati makes wonderfull equipment so much so i plan on getting ati's newest flagship 8500 all in one wonder as i like the freedom to play games/movies and watch tv etc and use a cool remote as a MOUSE unless of course a better option comes along to lure me to spend my money on

peace all

 

[videobruce]

What was redundent about HTPC? I didn't see it in this forumn at all.
Too many acronyms out there.

I did find a site with 2 good FAQ's links on this page:
http://www.commspecial.com/bguide.htm

Trouble is these are bigger $'s than I wanted to spend.

Again, I was told by ATI that 800x600 was all u could work with. Where can I find out more on changing into other resolutions for TV out?? Are u sure this is TV out we are talking about, NOT resolutions within the computer??? I believe they are chip limited, not software limited.

Bottom line, these single 'chips' are cheap and can't be expected to give u much. I feel these 'all in one' (pardon the phase) cards are overpriced and cut too many corners, just giving you bells & whistles NOT proformance!!

As far as being complicated, simple isn't always better, separate dedicaded devices are better than combination units. Corners are always cut!

 

[Corn]

TV Tool, It's all you need.....

Allows for Nvidia cards to display TV and VGA signal at the same time. Also allows for "overscan" (so no black bars on top/bottom/sides of the tv). Good stuff.

 

[videobruce]

Have it...........used it............still only 800x600! (please read better)
something more to conflict with something else!

 

[videobruce]

Here is another link for FAQ's and technical articles better than the other on Scan Converters:

http://www.extron.com/technology/index.asp

 

[rbV5]

<< (please read better) >>



Out of 5 people who have responded to help, you've asked 2 of us to read better, or a variation thereof. I suggest you do your own damn research.

 

[videobruce]

Your comment isn't necessary or asked for.............
2 of you didn't read what I wrote.
The last post was information for anyone that wanted to look it up, it was not a question.
Shows you really can't read!

If you don't have anything nice to say keep it to yourself..........

 

[rbV5]

<< 2 of you didn't read what I wrote. >>



WTF are you talking about, are you here watching me. I read your miscongoogled first post, and your subsequent attempts, you are hard to follow and you seem to discount anyones help with your obviously uninformed opinions. Telling someone to "read better" or "reread your post" is akin to calling them an idiot and I take offense to it. Obviously I'm not refering to your link post, hello.

 

[Workin']

videobruce, you aren't making friends posting a borderline incoherent post and then telling people that try to help you that they should read the post - especially since you didn't do any real research whatsoever and ended up with a complicated, kludged solution that costs 2x as much as what you could have done if you would have done your homework. And you won't listen to anyone anyway - your whole intent seems to be to justify your hack of an attempt at solving a problem that doesn't really exist.

Let's see - can't use ATI because their drivers used to have problems and you never bothered to find out what real issues there are, if any. Can't use TV-tool because that's just one more thing to do and you just can't be bothered. Can't use Matrox because their 3d isn't fast enough (I'll give you that one). Didn't bother to look into what TwinView Nvidia cards can do because you heard some old cards might have not been perfect. It's funny how you didn't have time to discover the facts (or use Google!) but had time to track down a product not available in your country and then the time to jury-rig some connections and then time to write a post about it, while calling anyone who points out your folly essentially stupid. And you still insist on contradicting anyone who presents factual information that doesn't agree with your hearsay and speculation!

Sorry, but that's the way it is.

 

[Kali157]

Hi... new here. But I have a lil suggestion to videobruce.... Breathe, think, THEN write... not in any other order

Oh and by the way, in response to this comment

<<Your comment isn't necessary or asked for.............>>

May I refer you to the last line of your first message:

<<let me know. >>

errr... that means that you are ASKING for other people's comments. Did YOU read your own post????
<< (please read better) >>

Oh and this IS a forum... if you wanna rant and rave about something without expecting a reaction, then go to a corner and talk to yourself.... no really, i think that is what you need.

AAAAAAAnyway, just "letting you know"

 

[videobruce]

1. I re-read my first post and was very clear what I wanted and what I did. Other than the 4 or so misspelled words, I don't see why there should be any misunderstanding. And seeing some of the other posts with misspellings much worse than mine to the extent that you couldn't read them.

2. I have a nVidiea chipset card and know all about twinview and have talked with nVidiea and Asus and was told the twinview was being discountined because of problems with it and also it slows down the card. As far as TV Tool, why run another program to make up for the shortcomings of the software for the card itself?

3. The Grandeview product IS avalible in the US. That's where I got it in the first place. It wasn't intended to be marketed here, but they are avalible from the US importer.

4. I mentioned that I wanted more than 800x600 and twice people told me of products that only did 800x600. I talked to ATI and they told me even the 8500 only did 800x600. Unless that changed from 2 months ago to now, or he was wrong, ATI is out, driver problem or not.

5. As far as the ATI driver problems, they aren't mine they are everyone that wrote in to all the formuns that contain help on video cards including theirs. I found a unusally high amount of complaints with these cards.

6. If didn't do any research, how did I know about these issues in the first place? No matter how much you do, there is always something you miss. This was part of the research, asking other peoples experiances & opinions, not for their sarcasm

7. For the price I paid for the converter ($85) it isn't worth it to send it back and loose $15 shipping (both ways). The product is better than what I tried in the past (2 different cards) and as far as the DA, $60 isn't expensive, and it could always be used for something else.

8. Five years of doing video production and 3 years of doing communications installations, (data and telco) I've seen some real "follies". This is NOT a folly!

9. If anyone didn't understand what I wrote why not simply ask instead of saying it was "miscongoogled".