BHO: Tough on illegals?

[Socio]

Originally posted by: Ozoned
[

Hate to burst your bubble, but any action taken on illegal aliens is symbolic.
[/quote]

True they rarely deport illegal?s after they have done their time anyway so this is just a publicity stunt to make Obama look good more than action against illegal immigrants.

Remember Napolitano is pro illegal immigrant, thinks they should stay and get granted amnesty.

 

[KlokWyze]

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

Originally posted by: KlokWyze
I was discussing with a friend that I found it surprising that there isn't more animosity towards illegals during this economic downturn. With the lower employment rates, wage decreases, etc. I would think there would be more of an outcry about them taking jobs from US citizens.

You'd think we'd also hear a greater outcry about foreign outsourcing and H-1B and L-1 visas.

The reason we're not hearing it is that we as Americans have been indoctrinated to believe in free trade, immigration, and "meritocracy". We've been raised to believe that free trade is always good, that immigration improves our economy, and that if you lose your job or can't find a new one it's your fault and your economic station in life is what you deserve.

Our politicians and our media have done a great job of convincing the public that their economic problems can be solves with more and better education--that if only they were smarter and harder working and better educated that they would find jobs.

So, instead of being able to recognize our nation's real economic problems, people tend to blame themselves or conclude that education is a panacea.

I always though the public education system was garbage and the fact that you list that as a panacea is fittingly ironic. I've read about the H1B visas in the past & didn't believe to be all that bad @ the time, while probably reading how they were "necessary" for profit.

Concerning my original post in this. My friend & I were just surprised that there hasn't really been ANY outcry @ all about it (during the beginning of this financial downturn), considering the amount of bitching done in the past few years when it's been booming. That may be the answer in itself....

 

[soccerballtux]

Mexico seems perfectly happy to dump all their problems on us. Why most liberals want to take on that responsibility; well actually it's not that complicated-- if they nationalize them then that's a heft extra liberal vote they'd get.

 

[Zebo]

You're dreaming Ocguy. They are getting amnesty, they will vote about 70% Democrat and work for cheap labor Republicans. The powers that be want it even if 90% of Americans don't. What else is new.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: scruffypup

It is comments like this that are just plain ignorant,.. living on a border state - ARIZONA - I can tell you that none of that comment is true.

1) Arizona has been the #1 state for Identy theft per capita for at least a decade,... California, Texas and Nevada have always been in top 5. Prime example of harm was recently an illegal was trying to get a loan for a $33,000 truck in someone elses name, got caught, upset at police they were arresting a hardworking family man,... come to find out he had over $800,000 in loans under a stolen ID,... a lot of this money/vehicles most likely went south of the border,... and left a citizen with a pile of crap to deal with for years.

2) Phoenix is now the nation's capital for kidnapping

3) many illegals are also dealing drugs, smuggling drugs or part of the problem

4) The mass number of illegals, places downward pressure on wages

5) most have at best a 4th grade education,.. the kind of education that will not produce anything but low wage earners (who don't pay taxes in our system - they get money) and are more likely to engage in criminal activity

6) Many do not pay taxes anyways - if they do, it is because they stole someone's ID,.. and see last comment

7) many get free healthcare through state system,...

8) many don't have car insurance,... so when there is an accident, who is left holding the bag?

9) the costs of infrastructure,... police, firefighters, roads, teachers is not being paid by this group and the burden falls on the rest

10) the majority of phoenix police officers killed in the line of duty, have been killed by illegals,... there are tons of arrests involving molestation and rape of our children, as well as other crimes,... but the two specifics I mentioned are enough to be disgusted by this,... and yes there is crime here already,.. but do we need to bring in more by people hiding in the shadows?

11) I haven't even covered the food stamps yet,...

12) The argument that they do jobs Americans won't is a fallacy,... many citizens have lost their jobs doing the same thing,... but they cannot do it under the table, with someone else's ID, etc like the illegals can and are undercut wage wise

13) Food prices would not skyrocket,... a few food items might increase, but doubtful as the economy woudl adjust, either technology to make the harvesting and such of these crops better, or those crops would be converted to higher profiting types,.. then there would be a demand to import the other crops (lettuce comes to mind as the argument held usually),... we could then import from Mexico,... giving a boost to their economy with that demand,... it actually works that way in the economy people!!!!

14) A large portion of the money being made is being sent south of the border,... therefore we are exporting a lot of the money out of our economy by letting the illegals stay here (yes we have been letting them stay with hardly much effort to do anything for decades)

15) There is so much more,... the post I responded to was just incredibly ignorant,..

And if you think we in Arizona are harsh, which we aren't but need to be,.. you should see what Mexicans do to their illegal immigrants from south of their border,...

Is it a problem that will go away overnight? NO! But if we can have a NET EXPORT of illegals each year instead of a NET IMPORT through enforcement of current laws, employer sanctions, prison time, pressure on neighboring countries,... etc we can get there and have this be less of an issue.

I live approximately 15 minutes by car from the San Ysidro border crossing, the busiest border crossing in the entire world, and your post is mostly xenophobic horseshit based on anecdotal evidence (or just stuff you completely made up)

Immigrants do commit crimes at a lower rate than US citizens. This is an indisputable fact, backed up by reams of research. Your contention that illegal immigrants are somehow responsible for drug dealing, child rape and child molestation (!?!?!!) are completely off the deep end crazy, as illegal immigrants commit these types of crimes at significantly lower levels than do US citizens.

Illegal immigrants do pay taxes (just not income taxes). Many of the taxes they do pay like gas taxes, are directly earmarked for projects just like the roads that you said they don't pay for.

There have been studies on the effect of illegal immigrants on the health care system and these studies have found that they use the health care system at wildly disproportionately small rates compared to US citizens, and that their impact to it is small.

I would continue on, but I guess you failed to notice the irony of how incredibly ignorant your post itself was, and I sincerely doubt what I've written will dent your xenophobia in the slightest.

There are a few things in your post that are mostly correct, and there are certainly downsides to this, but those are lost in a sea of complete crap that you're spewing out.

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Immigrants do commit crimes at a lower rate than US citizens. This is an indisputable fact, backed up by reams of research.

When the studies make the distiction between Immigrants, and illegal Immigrants, there are reams of research that dispute your facts. THE SIMPLE BASIC FACT THAT YOU CAN NOT ARGUE WITH, IS THAT BEING AN ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT IS A CRIME.



~~~~~~100%~~~~~~

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Immigrants do commit crimes at a lower rate than US citizens. This is an indisputable fact, backed up by reams of research.

When the studies make the distiction between Immigrants, and illegal Immigrants, there are reams of research that dispute your facts. THE SIMPLE BASIC FACT THAT YOU CAN NOT ARGUE WITH, IS THAT BEING AN ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT IS A CRIME.



~~~~~~100%~~~~~~

Here's something that provides a general overview, and is easy to read.

Be sure to check the part where noncitizens from Mexico aged 10-40 (pretty much the illegal immigrant demographic) has a vastly lower crime/incarceration rate than the native born.

If you're going to use the argument of "JUST BEING AN ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT IS A CRIME" then you are just trying to destroy the purpose of the point in a cloud of BS. The crimes referenced were property crimes, violent crimes, etc. Not paperwork crimes.

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Immigrants do commit crimes at a lower rate than US citizens. This is an indisputable fact, backed up by reams of research.

When the studies make the distiction between Immigrants, and illegal Immigrants, there are reams of research that dispute your facts. THE SIMPLE BASIC FACT THAT YOU CAN NOT ARGUE WITH, IS THAT BEING AN ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT IS A CRIME.



~~~~~~100%~~~~~~

Here's something that provides a general overview, and is easy to read.

Be sure to check the part where noncitizens from Mexico aged 10-40 (pretty much the illegal immigrant demographic) has a vastly lower crime/incarceration rate than the native born.

If you're going to use the argument of "JUST BEING AN ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT IS A CRIME" then you are just trying to destroy the purpose of the point in a cloud of BS. The crimes referenced were property crimes, violent crimes, etc. Not paperwork crimes.

When does California determine Immigration status in their judial process?

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Immigrants do commit crimes at a lower rate than US citizens. This is an indisputable fact, backed up by reams of research.

When the studies make the distiction between Immigrants, and illegal Immigrants, there are reams of research that dispute your facts. THE SIMPLE BASIC FACT THAT YOU CAN NOT ARGUE WITH, IS THAT BEING AN ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT IS A CRIME.



~~~~~~100%~~~~~~

Here's something that provides a general overview, and is easy to read.

Be sure to check the part where noncitizens from Mexico aged 10-40 (pretty much the illegal immigrant demographic) has a vastly lower crime/incarceration rate than the native born.

If you're going to use the argument of "JUST BEING AN ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT IS A CRIME" then you are just trying to destroy the purpose of the point in a cloud of BS. The crimes referenced were property crimes, violent crimes, etc. Not paperwork crimes.

A crime is a crime is a crime.

 

[alien42]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Immigrants do commit crimes at a lower rate than US citizens. This is an indisputable fact, backed up by reams of research.

When the studies make the distiction between Immigrants, and illegal Immigrants, there are reams of research that dispute your facts. THE SIMPLE BASIC FACT THAT YOU CAN NOT ARGUE WITH, IS THAT BEING AN ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT IS A CRIME.



~~~~~~100%~~~~~~

Here's something that provides a general overview, and is easy to read.

Be sure to check the part where noncitizens from Mexico aged 10-40 (pretty much the illegal immigrant demographic) has a vastly lower crime/incarceration rate than the native born.

If you're going to use the argument of "JUST BEING AN ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT IS A CRIME" then you are just trying to destroy the purpose of the point in a cloud of BS. The crimes referenced were property crimes, violent crimes, etc. Not paperwork crimes.

A crime is a crime is a crime.

murder and petty theft should be considered equal in a court of law.

/sarcasm

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Immigrants do commit crimes at a lower rate than US citizens. This is an indisputable fact, backed up by reams of research.

When the studies make the distiction between Immigrants, and illegal Immigrants, there are reams of research that dispute your facts. THE SIMPLE BASIC FACT THAT YOU CAN NOT ARGUE WITH, IS THAT BEING AN ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT IS A CRIME.



~~~~~~100%~~~~~~

Here's something that provides a general overview, and is easy to read.

Be sure to check the part where noncitizens from Mexico aged 10-40 (pretty much the illegal immigrant demographic) has a vastly lower crime/incarceration rate than the native born.

If you're going to use the argument of "JUST BEING AN ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT IS A CRIME" then you are just trying to destroy the purpose of the point in a cloud of BS. The crimes referenced were property crimes, violent crimes, etc. Not paperwork crimes.

A crime is a crime is a crime.

It is OK to draw the distinction.

It is also Ok to ask:

How many of my fellow LEGAL americans would still be alive if this paper crime was not tolerated ?

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Xellos2099
well, the illegal immigrant is sucking our life blood dry atm. They pay no income tax( no social security number) yet have all the benefit of the citizen + more.

while they probably pay little to no income tax (citizens making that little are paying little to no as well), they almost always have social security numbers (sometimes two for the same job) and pay into that system (and will almost certainly not collect).

 

[StormRider]

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: Evan
Immigrants (including illegals) are a net positive for economic growth, and commit crimes at a lower rate than the population, so they are a real benefit to the country. But it does make perfect sense to keep track of immigration status. The problem arises if you end up deporting parents whose children are legal citizens by birth (whom wingnuts derogatorily call "anchor babies"). Breaking up hundreds of thousands of families obviously makes things worse, and this is just one example of the impracticality of deportation. But monitoring and maintaining records on illegals is a must, no question about that.

Being illegal is a crime, thus each and everyone has committed a crime. That blows your theory out of the water.
Illegal alien crime statistics

I'm pretty sure that everyone has broken some law of some sort that's in the books.

 

[Ozoned]

Obama can't afford to be tough on illegals. It would be political suicide. He can however, be tough on illegals that commit crimes. (OTHER THAN PAPER CRIMES)

As expressed by the direction of the debate in this thread, There is a HUGE distinction between the two groups.

 

[PokerGuy]

Originally posted by: Xavier434
The illegal immigration problem is not nearly as simple as so many people (especially conservatives) make it out to be. If it were that simple, then it would no longer a be a problem.

Actually, it is indeed just that simple. The solution is actually very very simple.
The issue is that the solution goes counter to the interests of both the left and the right, so neither side really wants to address it and implement a realistic solution.