Bicyclists have started doing a new thing that makes me furious

[etrigan420]

so we can agree right?

Are you stopping at stop signs/lights? Obeying the laws of "right-of-way"? Not obstructing the flow of traffic? Then yes!

Jesus Christ, all I'm saying is that you *don't* get special road rules because you're on a bike.

You're not a "target", and shouldn't be. Hell, I drive over Deception Pass twice a day, and the road up there sucks ass...for drivers, but even more so for cyclists. For good portions of it, there are -0- shoulders. Bikes know this, cars know this. So there's a give and take. Bikes block a fair bit of traffic while going through the "no shoulder" parts, but it's expected. They also know that when the shoulder *does* present itself, they get over and allow traffic to pass. Other than one fairly horrific incident that I was witness to involving a tandem bike and the guy on the front not paying attention to what he was doing (front wheel went off the road...his wife/girlfriend went over the top[no cars involved...I should probably add that given this threads context])...it's worked out pretty well.

What pisses drivers off, is this "I don't have to stop at the stop sign, I'm on a bike" attitude. The "Now I'm a bike and on the roadway, respect me" attitude, that quickly transforms into a "NOW I'M A PEDESTRIAN AND IN THE CROSSWALK" when it suits them.

Wanna ride in the road? I'm cool with that. You'll get *more* than 2 feet of space from me. But your compatriots lose a little respect when homeboy at a 4 way stop rides up to the stop in traffic, then transfers to the crosswalk and assumes right of way.

 

[Ns1]

Are you stopping at stop signs/lights? Obeying the laws of "right-of-way"? Not obstructing the flow of traffic? Then yes!

I obey as many laws on a bike as I do when I drive.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Are you stopping at stop signs/lights? Obeying the laws of "right-of-way"? Not obstructing the flow of traffic? Then yes!

Jesus Christ, all I'm saying is that you *don't* get special road rules because you're on a bike.

You're not a "target", and shouldn't be. Hell, I drive over Deception Pass twice a day, and the road up there sucks ass...for drivers, but even more so for cyclists. For good portions of it, there are -0- shoulders. Bikes know this, cars know this. So there's a give and take. Bikes block a fair bit of traffic while going through the "no shoulder" parts, but it's expected. They also know that when the shoulder *does* present itself, they get over and allow traffic to pass. Other than one fairly horrific incident that I was witness to involving a tandem bike and the guy on the front not paying attention to what he was doing (front wheel went off the road...his wife/girlfriend went over the top[no cars involved...I should probably add that given this threads context])...it's worked out pretty well.

What pisses drivers off, is this "I don't have to stop at the stop sign, I'm on a bike" attitude. The "Now I'm a bike and on the roadway, respect me" attitude, that quickly transforms into a "NOW I'M A PEDESTRIAN AND IN THE CROSSWALK" when it suits them.

Wanna ride in the road? I'm cool with that. You'll get *more* than 2 feet of space from me. But your compatriots lose a little respect when homeboy at a 4 way stop rides up to the stop in traffic, then transfers to the crosswalk and assumes right of way.

I haven't seen anyone in this thread say they ride like that and I don't like it when I see bicyclists riding like that nor would I ride with someone who did that.

 

[senseamp]

Why would you be pissed off if you are in a stopped car in traffic and bikes are going around you in the bike lane or using the cross walk? It makes no difference in your own commute, just makes theirs faster. If that pisses you off, the problem is with you, not the bikers.

 

[Oyeve]

Meh, bikers in manhattan are targets for me. 99% just blow through lights and shit.

 

[Markbnj]

Bingo. Riding down the street, you pass a driveway and the car comes out of the driveway and is about to t-bone you. Where do you go? You can't speed up/slow down, you can only go into the car or into the street.

But let's stop trying to argue with him - he's obviously spiderman.

And I do whatever a spider can.

And you are a perfect example of a rolling traffic hazard.

For one, you're riding against other riders, who are expecting to follow the flow of traffic. Someone's going to have to divert to avoid you,.

Secondly, you fail to miss the point of riding with traffic. In a high-traffic situation, like a city, you have nowhere else to avoid traffic. It doesn't matter if you're facing them or not, you're going to get hit. And if you get hit in front, you're easily doubling the impact force.

If you really do have that much room to maneuver out of the way, you're probably not going to get hit in the first place. At that point you're more likely to endanger other bikers.

I don't know about you, but I generally ride in the city... there's nowhere to "jump out of the way".

So there's places where it may make sense for the rider to make the decision to ride in the same direction as cars, and maybe the city is one of them. I don't ride in the city, and likely wouldn't. I'd walk or take the subway. But the reason for that decision is based on the rider assessing which is the safest alternative, not a rule which states that all vehicles travel in the right lane. At least outside of congested city streets, where cars travel much faster, bikes are not part of the flow of traffic. They might act like they are, and the rules might even say they are, but they just aren't.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

<snip>

What pisses drivers off, is this "I don't have to stop at the stop sign, I'm on a bike" attitude. The "Now I'm a bike and on the roadway, respect me" attitude, that quickly transforms into a "NOW I'M A PEDESTRIAN AND IN THE CROSSWALK" when it suits them.

<snip>

It's a result of the elitist cyclist attitude that makes everyone had the modern road cyclist.

They are better than drivers and lesser cyclists. They are getting a workout and saving the environment and lance armstrong. The olympics are right around the corner.

Screw the 15+ people they're holding up at 8mph while furiously peddling uphill - they are far more important than those peons. Because lance armstrong.

 

[mkrohn]

I don't have bike lanes here. I generally have no issues with cyclists, as I am one from time to time. The only time I honk at them and hope I scare them into running into a pole is when they are riding INTO traffic, which I do see with some scary regularity. It is always by a newb who is invariably not wearing a helmet and for some stupid fucking reason thinks that it is is safer to ride against traffic no his bike than with it. For bonus points in idiocy is when I have a green light and am taking a right and somebody on a bike, riding against traffic, rides across the crosswalk.

I bike quite a bit and laws vary by area BUT they have the right to ride side by side everywhere I've checked into laws. Bike lanes are not wide enough.

The OP mentions 15MPH. No serious cyclist is going that slow unless its in town where there's heavier traffic and frequent "obstacles".

OP, they are doing such tactics to be more visible which clearly it is working if its annoying you.

Last summer I was hit by cars TWICE! Bikes have every bit as much right to a road as a car does. The hit that hurt me pretty bad was a dude that came from the other side of the road and turned into a gas station. I'm guessing he didn't expect a bike to actually be moving at a decent rate and didn't feel like waiting for me to pass through. The other accident I was in the bike lane and the chick simply didn't see me and pulled out. I hit my brakes and just bent my front rim on the side of her car.

All of you fat lazy people that drive everywhere need to learn how to share the road with people that are doing a good thing for the environment and the healthcare system. If everybody would exercise instead of driving even those 2 blocks to McD's the entire healthcare system would be in much better shape.

 

[mkrohn]

Meh, bikers in manhattan are targets for me. 99% just blow through lights and shit.

those are just like everybody else in manhattan... asshats.

I respect the road and obey all traffic laws. If I ever use a crosswalk I hop off the bike and walk it across. There are many city situations where that is just a smart thing to do.

When I bike in busier roads I will stop at a stop light and cars just pull up and push me over instead of being behind me. Even if I stop BEHIND a car at a light there's always the next driver pushed up alongside me. THAT is the kind of thing why so many bikes just pull all the way up to the light, passing cars on the right.

I try to obey traffic laws but the drivers refuse to. When there's multiple lanes if I'm on the right quarter of the furthest right lane people come scary close to clipping me constantly. If I move to the middle of that lane like I have the right to then people pull up on my tire and honk at me. Different situations require different tactics. There was a spot I biked a LOT that came up to a freeway onramp that had a lane on the right. If I stay to the right even when I have to cross that lane to keep going straight people don't give up the right of way to me and keep passing me.

 

[hanoverphist]

i love this argument whenever it comes up in here. pointless too, neither side will change. it is damn entertaining tho.


only thing that actually pisses me off is the term cager. how stupid is that? someone that doesnt share your hobby is "caged" up just because they drive a car? all of a sudden drivers are fat because they dont enjoy the same exercises you do? maybe that person drives for a living, or carrying 400+ lbs of tools isnt really practical on a 12-speed? ive had my run-ins with cyclists in my days, but by far it would have to be less than 1% of the cyclists i see on the road. those few extremists sure do burn in your mind tho, especially when they follow you to a stop light or into a convenience store parking lot and start yelling and tossing wild hands because you were 4 feet from them while passing. that 1% i remember were very extreme, regardless of how much i changed lanes or slowed down to avoid them. one guy actually hit my car because i was waiting to turn right at a red light and was legally in the bike lane (dashed lines mean you can cross over for a turn) well before he was even at the intersection. he scratched my car and thought i would just drive off and leave him to his victory. nope, we had a little discussion, which led to him trying to dent in my rear QP. so, he walked home with a bent front wheel. cop didnt say a thing about it, either since it bent when the guy tried to hit me with his bike. dumbass.

i try to be as friendly as possible to cyclists, especially knowing i couldend their existence. but some of them really push that to thelimits, and almost cause more havoc to themselves than they need to.

also, "right-of-way" is a myth. i hada judge tell the whole "i got a ticket and had to go to traffic school" class that RoW is given by others in traffic with you, not a right you automatically have. if conditions and traffic arent safe, regardless of what the sign says you dont have the right to just go.

 

[mkrohn]

also, "right-of-way" is a myth. i hada judge tell the whole "i got a ticket and had to go to traffic school" class that RoW is given by others in traffic with you, not a right you automatically have. if conditions and traffic arent safe, regardless of what the sign says you dont have the right to just go.

right of way is not a myth but in no fault states like mine your insurance pays no matter the outcome.

Right of way is nothing more than who SHOULD go. If there is anything at all that you can do to prevent an accident you are required to do so. I have seen people just plow into others and try to claim right of way.

I've almost been demolished by people making a left and just nailing the gas pedal to go when I'm turning right. Right is ALWAYS right since the person turning left is technically crossing your lane and must wait for that lane to be clear. Most people don't understand that and try to go with the I got here first thing. In a no or very light traffic situation the I got here first is a courteous thing to do. When there is traffic though it is unreasonable to expect a person turning right to wait for your left turn before they go.

 

[JulesMaximus]

I bike quite a bit and laws vary by area BUT they have the right to ride side by side everywhere I've checked into laws. Bike lanes are not wide enough.

The OP mentions 15MPH. No serious cyclist is going that slow unless its in town where there's heavier traffic and frequent "obstacles".

OP, they are doing such tactics to be more visible which clearly it is working if its annoying you.

Last summer I was hit by cars TWICE! Bikes have every bit as much right to a road as a car does. The hit that hurt me pretty bad was a dude that came from the other side of the road and turned into a gas station. I'm guessing he didn't expect a bike to actually be moving at a decent rate and didn't feel like waiting for me to pass through. The other accident I was in the bike lane and the chick simply didn't see me and pulled out. I hit my brakes and just bent my front rim on the side of her car.

All of you fat lazy people that drive everywhere need to learn how to share the road with people that are doing a good thing for the environment and the healthcare system. If everybody would exercise instead of driving even those 2 blocks to McD's the entire healthcare system would be in much better shape.

This happened to me once as well. I was riding to work, in the bike lane, there was no traffic around me at all and I was doing close to 30mph (slight downhill) when I notice a car pulling out of a side street on the left side of the road (across from me). I'm watching her front wheels and expecting her to turn into one of the two lanes of road going the same direction as I am but her front wheels were not turning. Fuck, now I realize she is heading for another side road and we are on a collision course and she doesn't see me. I'm braking hard and pull out into the roadway to go around her.

Only reason we didn't collide is because I was paying attention. It would have been bad too. Broken bones for sure.

The city has since put a traffic signal in at that intersection.

 

[Brainonska511]

This happened to me once as well. I was riding to work, in the bike lane, there was no traffic around me at all and I was doing close to 30mph (slight downhill) when I notice a car pulling out of a side street on the left side of the road (across from me). I'm watching her front wheels and expecting her to turn into one of the two lanes of road going the same direction as I am but her front wheels were not turning. Fuck, now I realize she is heading for another side road and we are on a collision course and she doesn't see me. I'm braking hard and pull out into the roadway to go around her.

Only reason we didn't collide is because I was paying attention. It would have been bad too. Broken bones for sure.

The city has since put a traffic signal in at that intersection.

Fortunately, I've only been almost hit:

1) I was riding in a non-protected bike lane (directly adjacent, and not in, the traffic lane) Some asshat decided to speed up and then make a right turn directly in front of me. I stopped so short, the chain fell off the gearing on my back tire.

2) I was traveling in a protected bike lane (on a one-way street) and I had the green and some jackass decided to make a left in front of me without looking down the lane.

Even though *I* was following the rules, cars are given a pass for acting like jackasses with their 2 ton behemoths.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Fortunately, I've only been almost hit:

1) I was riding in a non-protected bike lane (directly adjacent, and not in, the traffic lane) Some asshat decided to speed up and then make a right turn directly in front of me. I stopped so short, the chain fell off the gearing on my back tire.

2) I was traveling in a protected bike lane (on a one-way street) and I had the green and some jackass decided to make a left in front of me without looking down the lane.

Even though *I* was following the rules, cars are given a pass for acting like jackasses with their 2 ton behemoths.

I've had that happen a couple times too. They pass you and immediate make a right turn in front of you. That really pisses me off. I can still picture their cars, even the make, model and color.

Another time I was riding to work and traffic was all backed up on the road, probably 1/2 mile or more and I'm passing cars that are moving stop and go (I'm in a dedicated but not protected bike lane) when some woman in an SUV decides to start pulling into the bike lane preparing to enter a school parking lot. She is squeezing me into parked cars so I start banging on her rear window with my open left hand to get her attention. Scared the shit out of her too. Wake up honey!!!

 

[SlitheryDee]

Fortunately, I've only been almost hit:

1) I was riding in a non-protected bike lane (directly adjacent, and not in, the traffic lane) Some asshat decided to speed up and then make a right turn directly in front of me. I stopped so short, the chain fell off the gearing on my back tire.

2) I was traveling in a protected bike lane (on a one-way street) and I had the green and some jackass decided to make a left in front of me without looking down the lane.

Even though *I* was following the rules, cars are given a pass for acting like jackasses with their 2 ton behemoths.

In both of those situations I would side with you over the motorist. In fact, I don't think you're even the kind of cyclist anyone would have a problem with if that's how you typically ride. Those guys certainly shouldn't get a pass for that behavior.

If you had been an asshole cyclist you would have been racing the first guy to try and get to the intersection before him, and you wouldn't even know whether you had the green or not in the second situation because you would think the lights don't apply to you. See the difference? Those people do exist, and they have an infuriatingly strident sense of being justified in everything they do on two wheels.

 

[senseamp]

Wanna ride in the road? I'm cool with that. You'll get *more* than 2 feet of space from me. But your compatriots lose a little respect when homeboy at a 4 way stop rides up to the stop in traffic, then transfers to the crosswalk and assumes right of way.

Why does it bother you? If I am making a left turn, I can play frogger across lanes of traffic to get into the left turn lane, forcing everyone to slow down to 10mph for me and putting myself at risk. Or I can ride across on the right and use the crosswalk like a pedestrian. It's safer and better for everyone, especially if there is a lot of traffic.

 

[Phoenix86]

Are you a cop? No? Do you call them every time you see a car speeding or not stop at a stop sign or blow a red light? No? Then shut the fuck up and mind your own business.

So you're saying it's ok to break the law because other people break the law? If I don't call the cops for someone speeding 1MPH over, can I still call if I see a drunk driver, what about a murder? 'Cause MYOB right?

Where's the line in the sand drawn that allows me to call the police when I don't call for a 1MPH speeder? Why do you get to decide for me?

I'm having a hard time following your logic, if there is any.

 

[JulesMaximus]

So you're saying it's ok to break the law because other people break the law? If I don't call the cops for someone speeding 1MPH over, can I still call if I see a drunk driver, what about a murder? 'Cause MYOB right?

Where's the line in the sand drawn that allows me to call the police when I don't call for a 1MPH speeder? Why do you get to decide for me?

I'm having a hard time following your logic, if there is any.

Um, you think murder and not stopping at a stop sign are the same thing? Really?

I'm having a hard time following your logic, because there isn't any.

 

[Phoenix86]

Um, you think murder and not stopping at a stop sign are the same thing? Really?

I'm having a hard time following your logic, because there isn't any.

Yes, because I equated them. Oh wait, no I didn't. I asked a bunch of questions. Those things you didn't answer. You know, those things with question marks at the end of the.

Here, try the simple ones.

Where's the line in the sand drawn that allows me to call the police when I don't call for a 1MPH speeder? Why do you get to decide for me?

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Why does it bother you? If I am making a left turn, I can play frogger across lanes of traffic to get into the left turn lane, forcing everyone to slow down to 10mph for me and putting myself at risk. Or I can ride across on the right and use the crosswalk like a pedestrian. It's safer and better for everyone, especially if there is a lot of traffic.

That's illegal, at least in my state. A bicycle is considered a vehicle, the same as a car, and when using the road, is subject to the same rules of the road. If that means getting in the left lane to make a left turn, you do it, with appropriate signaling as required by law. If your presence in the left lane is slowing down other traffic, who cares? They'd have to slow down if you were a car turning left too.

Inattentive drivers are a legitimate danger, moreso to cyclists because of the vast disparity of weight. But cyclists who pick and choose which laws they want to obey on the fly are also increasing their risk and the risk of others on the road. I'm not expecting you to act as a vehicle until it suits you personally to act as a pedestrian, and expectations are how we avoid accidents. Granted, I come from a city whose attitude towards bikes is like Amsterdam bred with China, so maybe I'm slightly more aware of cyclists than the people near where you ride. But that also means I see my fair share of cyclists who think laws don't apply to them, and invariably they're creating far more of a hazard than the cyclists who do everything exactly by the book, including appropriate use of turning lanes.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Yes, because I equated them. Oh wait, no I didn't. I asked a bunch of questions. Those things you didn't answer. You know, those things with question marks at the end of the.

Here, try the simple ones.

Where's the line in the sand drawn that allows me to call the police when I don't call for a 1MPH speeder? Why do you get to decide for me?

Why would I answer a ridiculous question like this?

If I don't call the cops for someone speeding 1MPH over, can I still call if I see a drunk driver, what about a murder? 'Cause MYOB right?

Go ahead and call the cops because a cyclist runs a stop sign. In fact, I recommend that you do this and please record the conversation and play it here because I bet that would be quite entertaining. I was just trying to help you not make a fool of yourself but you seem hell bent on it so knock yourself out bro.

 

[Oyeve]

Fortunately, I've only been almost hit:

1) I was riding in a non-protected bike lane (directly adjacent, and not in, the traffic lane) Some asshat decided to speed up and then make a right turn directly in front of me. I stopped so short, the chain fell off the gearing on my back tire.

2) I was traveling in a protected bike lane (on a one-way street) and I had the green and some jackass decided to make a left in front of me without looking down the lane.

Even though *I* was following the rules, cars are given a pass for acting like jackasses with their 2 ton behemoths.

Seems like the drivers did nothing wrong. Should all drivers slow down for your ass? Nope.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Why does it bother you? If I am making a left turn, I can play frogger across lanes of traffic to get into the left turn lane, forcing everyone to slow down to 10mph for me and putting myself at risk. Or I can ride across on the right and use the crosswalk like a pedestrian. It's safer and better for everyone, especially if there is a lot of traffic.

Typical elitist bicyclist.

Pick and choose which laws you want to follow, based on what benefits you the most.

 

[Brainonska511]

Seems like the drivers did nothing wrong. Should all drivers slow down for your ass? Nope.

For the first scenario, if I'm moving at a good clip, on a city street mind you (where the speed limit is no more than 30 mph), and I'm close to an intersection, yes, the vehicle should have slowed down.

As for the second scenario, same thing. The rules of the road are that an individual may not cross another's right-of-way until it is safe to do so. I'm sorry that you don't understand that basic notion.

 

[Phoenix86]

Why would I answer a ridiculous question like this?



Go ahead and call the cops because a cyclist runs a stop sign. In fact, I recommend that you do this and please record the conversation and play it here because I bet that would be quite entertaining. I was just trying to help you not make a fool of yourself but you seem hell bent on it so knock yourself out bro.

So if I question your ridiculous statement, you won't answer the questions because they are ridiculous? Come on man...

If they do it once of course not, if they do it on a regular basis and it's a serious hazard, sure. Why the fuck not? The extremely simple and obvious point I was trying to make is there are various degrees of danger, some aren't worth doing shit about like 1MPH speeders, or a single cyclist running a stop sign.

Others are more dangerous, like people (in cars or on bikes) habitually running a stop sign/red light. Ever wonder why certain intersections are targeted for red light cameras (the original intent before it became a cash grab)? Because they are higher than normal areas for accidents.

If cyclists, as a group, disobey rules of the road of course they deserve more attention from the authorities. Just like everyone else.

Of course you assume I thought a cyclist running a stop sign was on the other side of the line even though I never said anything about cyclists. You're being extremely defensive, just like in every other cyclist thread.