Biden hints at Obama executive order (concerning guns)

[Bowfinger]

I'm not going to read through this entire thread....I'll just state something.

Does it not concern people regardless of party affiliation that the President of the United States thinks he's entitled to even attempt this, to even consider this? Is the American public this desensitized to this blatantly arrogant behavior by a man in his position?

He's the President, not a king, and this is fundamentally wrong and against a basic premise of the American system of government. This is much bigger than the gun debate. I don't think he'll try and repeal the second amendment but any executive order applied to a Constitutional amendment is just fundamentally wrong.

It really worries me that people are so tied to a party (either one) that they've lost touch with their rights as Americans and watch them continually eroded...for their own good or "for action".

It concerns me that the right wing propaganda machine has brainwashed so many Americans to uncritically swallow their fear mongering, no matter how ridiculous it is. Biden said not a single word about repealing the 2nd Amendment, not by executive order, not by legislation, not by clicking his heals together and chanting "There's no place like (a gun-free) home." He said Obama is committed to acting on reducing gun VIOLENCE through some combination of executive order and legislation. Reducing gun VIOLENCE.

That's not news. That is the express goal of Biden's task force. His remark was a simple reiteration that they are committed to that goal. Sadly, and quite predictably, the right wing propaganda machine grabbed that innocuous remark, perverted it into something sinister, and spewed it all over their fawning puppets. The result was just what you see here, paranoid fools who cannot read and think for themselves panicked on cue and did stupid things ... like posting threads suggesting Obama has decided to repeal the 2nd Amendment with an executive order.

I've started to think of them as Pavlov's Clowns. The only reason they're not more hilarious is because their paranoia, their gullibility, their susceptibility to irrational, fearful, ignorant disinformation is really hurting America.


Cliff's Notes: When one of Pavlov's Clowns posts some extraordinary allegation, check it out for yourself before you jump to conclusions. They're invariably telling you only part of the story at best, and are very often 100% full of bovine feces.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Anyone who believes there is any real risk of the President amending or revoking a Constitutional amendment by executive order is behaving in a stupid, paranoid, delusional fashion, and having been a member here for as long as I have, I am comfortable saying that some of the members who have posted in this thread are morons (not just because of things they've posted in this thread, but because of the months and even years of stupid things they have posted on this forum).

People's irrational fears of President Obama are really interesting to me, particularly given that he has governed in such a centrist way and has historically done nothing at all to regulate gun rights. If anything he is right-of-center for a Democratic President on this issue.

Perhaps this is irrational, but while the Exec. Office isn't going to repeal the Second, we're seeing a situation where one man may effectively use his personal sensibilities to perform what is in fact the responsibility of Congress. It is that body, warts and all, which imperfectly creates legislation. The very idea of contemplating this act would have been considered absurd a few decades ago. I'm not referring to guns, but the hubris demonstrated by one individual as expressed through his mouthpiece, Biden.

In essence the message is "I don't like how Congress is handling this, so I'm taking it on myself to effectively write law to tell others what they must do. I don't need anyone's approval".

If it were the color of golf balls being discussed I would not be less disturbed by the attitude. No wonder so many feel there was nothing amiss with Morsi declaring himself a dictator to achieve a goal. No, I don't like it.

 

[nextJin]

Anyway, I say you americans ought to be legally allowed to bear all the 1776-era arms you are physically able to carry. So, blast away with your flintlock muskets and such all you want.

All the rest needs to go, because you're all clearly incapable of handling that stuff like normal, reasonable human beings.

Apparently you would like to punish the 99.99% of law abiding gun owners to make yourself feel better. Have you seen the statistics of gun owners who prevent crime? It is a lot higher than the mass murder figures, and I do not believe any NRA member has been found guilty of a horrible crime like in Sandy Hook.

But on topic, I think this thread is absolutely ridiculous and misleading. I am a conservative (libertarian) but holy christ you people need to go. The most that will come of this is;

- More indepth background checks
- Mental health legislation
- Possible ban on magazine sizes

 

[Bowfinger]

Thank you for proving my point such such alacrity.

Yes he did, right on cue.

 

[Angry Irishman]

It concerns me that the right wing propaganda machine has brainwashed so many Americans to uncritically swallow their fear mongering, no matter how ridiculous it is. Biden said not a single word about repealing the 2nd Amendment, not by executive order, not by legislation, not by clicking his heals together and chanting "There's no place like (a gun-free) home." He said Obama is committed to acting on reducing gun VIOLENCE through some combination of executive order and legislation. Reducing gun VIOLENCE.

That's not news. That is the express goal of Biden's task force. His remark was a simple reiteration that they are committed to that goal. Sadly, and quite predictably, the right wing propaganda machine grabbed that innocuous remark, perverted it into something sinister, and spewed it all over their fawning puppets. The result was just what you see here, paranoid fools who cannot read and think for themselves panicked on cue and did stupid things ... like posting threads suggesting Obama has decided to repeal the 2nd Amendment with an executive order.

I've started to think of them as Pavlov's Clowns. The only reason they're not more hilarious is because their paranoia, their gullibility, their susceptibility to irrational, fearful, ignorant disinformation is really hurting America.


Cliff's Notes: When one of Pavlov's Clowns posts some extraordinary allegation, check it out for yourself before you jump to conclusions. They're invariably telling you only part of the story at best, and are very often 100% full of bovine feces.

The left wing propaganda machine is helpful....how? I stated that I didn't think he would actually try to repeal the amendment. What concerns me is he is tying executive orders to a Constitutional amendment. This consideration is by itself pretty damn unorthodox.

 

[TerryMathews]

You don't say. The conservatives here are so full of LOL and fail it's beyond all reason.

Anyway, I say you americans ought to be legally allowed to bear all the 1776-era arms you are physically able to carry. So, blast away with your flintlock muskets and such all you want.

All the rest needs to go, because you're all clearly incapable of handling that stuff like normal, reasonable human beings.

Welcome Piers, I didn't know you opened an account here...

 

[Angry Irishman]

Executive Orders have their place, but yes they can easily be abused. Our founders set up a constitutional republic that requires moral restraint to function properly. We're rapidly losing any sense of restraint.

Exactly why the President's judgement with this situation is somewhat alarming. He's not showing the appropriate restraint and setting equally as alarming precedents by even considering this course of action in the first place.

 

[Bowfinger]

The left wing propaganda machine is helpful....how? I stated that I didn't think he would actually try to repeal the amendment. What concerns me is he is tying executive orders to a Constitutional amendment. This consideration is by itself pretty damn unorthodox.

That whistling sound you heard was my point sailing far over your head. Read and think for yourself. Ignore the dishonest title of this thread and see what Biden actually said. Be sure to consider that the express goal of his task force was reducing gun VIOLENCE, and that the factors he is tasked with examining include not just guns, but also mental health and America's culture of violence. Now, find where Biden said anything tying executive orders to the 2nd Amendment. Hint, he didn't. That all comes from Pavlov's Clowns yelping on cue.

 

[Angry Irishman]

Perhaps this is irrational, but while the Exec. Office isn't going to repeal the Second, we're seeing a situation where one man may effectively use his personal sensibilities to perform what is in fact the responsibility of Congress. It is that body, warts and all, which imperfectly creates legislation. The very idea of contemplating this act would have been considered absurd a few decades ago. I'm not referring to guns, but the hubris demonstrated by one individual as expressed through his mouthpiece, Biden.

In essence the message is "I don't like how Congress is handling this, so I'm taking it on myself to effectively write law to tell others what they must do. I don't need anyone's approval".

If it were the color of golf balls being discussed I would not be less disturbed by the attitude. No wonder so many feel there was nothing amiss with Morsi declaring himself a dictator to achieve a goal. No, I don't like it.

This^^^and well stated.

 

[HomerJS]

It concerns me that the right wing propaganda machine has brainwashed so many Americans to uncritically swallow their fear mongering, no matter how ridiculous it is. Biden said not a single word about repealing the 2nd Amendment, not by executive order, not by legislation, not by clicking his heals together and chanting "There's no place like (a gun-free) home." He said Obama is committed to acting on reducing gun VIOLENCE through some combination of executive order and legislation. Reducing gun VIOLENCE.

That's not news. That is the express goal of Biden's task force. His remark was a simple reiteration that they are committed to that goal. Sadly, and quite predictably, the right wing propaganda machine grabbed that innocuous remark, perverted it into something sinister, and spewed it all over their fawning puppets. The result was just what you see here, paranoid fools who cannot read and think for themselves panicked on cue and did stupid things like posting threads suggesting Obama has decided to repeal the 2nd Amendment with an executive order.

I've started to think of them as Pavlov's Clowns. The only reason they're not more hilarious is because their paranoia, their gullibility, their susceptibility to irrational, fearful, ignorant disinformation is really hurting America.


Cliff's Notes: When one of Pavlov's Clowns posts some extraordinary allegation, check it out for yourself before you jump to conclusions. They're invariably telling you only part of the story at best, and are very often 100% full of bovine feces.

So true.

I think the crazy righties may have been out"Fox"ed. Binden probably dropped this knowing the loons would overreact. Obama is smart enough and others should be, to know nothing close to repealing the SA will happen. Obama will let the CEC punch itself out and he will enact changes that are agreeable to the majority.

Look up Ali and "rope a dope".

 

[diesbudt]

It concerns me that the right wing propaganda machine has brainwashed so many Americans to uncritically swallow their fear mongering, no matter how ridiculous it is. Biden said not a single word about repealing the 2nd Amendment, not by executive order, not by legislation, not by clicking his heals together and chanting "There's no place like (a gun-free) home." He said Obama is committed to acting on reducing gun VIOLENCE through some combination of executive order and legislation. Reducing gun VIOLENCE.

That's not news. That is the express goal of Biden's task force. His remark was a simple reiteration that they are committed to that goal. Sadly, and quite predictably, the right wing propaganda machine grabbed that innocuous remark, perverted it into something sinister, and spewed it all over their fawning puppets. The result was just what you see here, paranoid fools who cannot read and think for themselves panicked on cue and did stupid things ... like posting threads suggesting Obama has decided to repeal the 2nd Amendment with an executive order.

I've started to think of them as Pavlov's Clowns. The only reason they're not more hilarious is because their paranoia, their gullibility, their susceptibility to irrational, fearful, ignorant disinformation is really hurting America.


Cliff's Notes: When one of Pavlov's Clowns posts some extraordinary allegation, check it out for yourself before you jump to conclusions. They're invariably telling you only part of the story at best, and are very often 100% full of bovine feces.

The big issue is the executive order. Never should a president have to use this, except in a time for war, when waiting for congress approval could change the tide of war against the American forces.

We are built as a 3 branch system for a reason and it need be used.

THAT is my concern. I find it funny though people are infering it means the 2nd amendment could be appealed, when it really can't be.

 

[nextJin]

What kills me is this is not new, ya'll are complaining over executive orders when in reality Presidents have used hundreds during their terms for decades. Just because it effects gun violence now all of a sudden it is an issue.

 

[Angry Irishman]

That whistling sound you heard was my point sailing far over your head. Read and think for yourself. Ignore the dishonest title of this thread and see what Biden actually said. Be sure to consider that the express goal of his task force was reducing gun VIOLENCE, and that the factors he is tasked with examining include not just guns, but also mental health and America's culture of violence. Now, find where Biden said anything tying executive orders to the 2nd Amendment. Hint, he didn't. That all comes from Pavlov's Clowns yelping on cue.

He's proposing abusing executive orders to potentially change laws tied to the second ammendment. That in itself is wrong and circumvents the job of the legislative branch. He's out of line and potentially abusing the practice. The whistling I'm hearing is my rights being potentially eroded away to fulfill some emotional banter not based in fact. At a minimum it's arrogant as fuck.

I'm not really a big fan of the whole executive order concept as this very situation is always a risk...too much power for one man.

 

[diesbudt]

What kills me is this is not new, ya'll are complaining over executive orders when in reality Presidents have used hundreds during their terms for decades. Just because it effects gun violence now all of a sudden it is an issue.

Oh really? except in a time of war, please tell me when a president used an executive order to make sure a law was passed.

Because most common executive orders that are not in war, were not used to make new laws, or pass laws (one time the government tried seizing all steel mills through executive order and the Supreme court stepped in and refused that right) but to have agencies do/get done what is needed WITHIN the government.

Good thing the supreme court can overturn executive orders, otherwise the president using such a tool can be considered a dictator.

 

[bignateyk]

The big issue is the executive order. Never should a president have to use this, except in a time for war, when waiting for congress approval could change the tide of war against the American forces.

We are built as a 3 branch system for a reason and it need be used.

THAT is my concern. I find it funny though people are infering it means the 2nd amendment could be appealed, when it really can't be.

Obama has used far fewer executive orders than most other presidents. Not sure why everybody is getting their panties in a wad over this.

 

[Bowfinger]

Perhaps this is irrational, but while the Exec. Office isn't going to repeal the Second, we're seeing a situation where one man may effectively use his personal sensibilities to perform what is in fact the responsibility of Congress. It is that body, warts and all, which imperfectly creates legislation. The very idea of contemplating this act would have been considered absurd a few decades ago. I'm not referring to guns, but the hubris demonstrated by one individual as expressed through his mouthpiece, Biden.

I'll give you the same challenge. Look at all of Biden's remarks, consider the express mission of his task force, and then tell us what specifically Biden stated that shows this purported hubris. From my perspective, it appears you've taken the OP at face value without checking it first.

In essence the message is "I don't like how Congress is handling this, so I'm taking it on myself to effectively write law to tell others what they must do. I don't need anyone's approval". ...

Whereas I saw it as a simple affirmation that the Obama administration is committed to acting, rather than the usual "Let's make a task force and study (problem x) for two years, then put the report on a shelf without actually doing a damn thing." The difference, it seems, is that while I have issues with the Obama administration, I don't automatically suspect every single thing they say and do is purely evil.

If your issue is that modern Presidents abuse the executive order, I'm on board 100%. I just think all the presumptions that Obama is doing something notably outrageous in this specific case are a knee-jerk overreaction to the usual fear-mongering and disinformation, not at all supported by the actual information available so far. If and when Obama actually proposes something outrageous, I'll join the chorus. For now, however, all we have is a lot of paranoid screeching based on a perverse caricature of Biden's actual words.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

I feel dumber for having read even part of this gigantic waste of electrons.

 

[FerrelGeek]

What kills me is this is not new, ya'll are complaining over executive orders when in reality Presidents have used hundreds during their terms for decades. Just because it effects gun violence now all of a sudden it is an issue.

Libs did their fair share of complaining when Bush was in office. But now that there guy is in place, it's all good.

For those just joining this delightful thread, please read my prior posts before you accuse me of buying in to the paranoia.

 

[Bowfinger]

He's proposing abusing executive orders to potentially change laws tied to the second ammendment. That in itself is wrong and circumvents the job of the legislative branch. He's out of line and potentially abusing the practice. The whistling I'm hearing is my rights being potentially eroded away to fulfill some emotional banter not based in fact. At a minimum it's arrogant as fuck.

I'm not really a big fan of the whole executive order concept as this very situation is always a risk...too much power for one man.

OK ... so give me the exact quote, in context, showing Biden or Obama is "proposing abusing executive orders to potentially change laws tied to the second amendment." Ignore the dishonest title of this thread, ignore the dishonest insinuations of the propaganda mills, and give us the actual words supporting your allegation. As far as I can tell you've made no effort whatsoever to consider this yourself, but are instead relying on the hyperbole of the OP.

 

[nextJin]

Oh really? except in a time of war, please tell me when a president used an executive order to make sure a law was passed.

Because most common executive orders that are not in war, were not used to make new laws, or pass laws (one time the government tried seizing all steel mills through executive order and the Supreme court stepped in and refused that right) but to have agencies do/get done what is needed WITHIN the government.

Good thing the supreme court can overturn executive orders, otherwise the president using such a tool can be considered a dictator.

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=61581

There are thousands of others on that site.

 

[diesbudt]

Obama has used far fewer executive orders than most other presidents. Not sure why everybody is getting their panties in a wad over this.

Never said he did. And factually you are right. He has done less. But executive orders to make laws outside the government body have never happened, or been allowed. As executive orders were more for inner government issues/decrees.

 

[diesbudt]

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=61581

There are thousands of others on that site.

Read it. Only affects government agenc(ies). Not the american people/not a public law.

As I stated most-all executive orders are for inner governmental agencies/etc.

A few times the government tried doing non war-like executive orders that affected the citizens by a large amount, such as seize steel mills for governmental use (not even a law) the supreme court blocked it.

 

[Angry Irishman]

I'll give you the same challenge. Look at all of Biden's remarks, consider the express mission of his task force, and then tell us what specifically Biden stated that shows this purported hubris. From my perspective, it appears you've taken the OP at face value without checking it first.



Whereas I saw it as a simple affirmation that the Obama administration is committed to acting, rather than the usual "Let's make a task force and study (problem x) for two years, then put the report on a shelf without actually doing a damn thing." The difference, it seems, is that while I have issues with the Obama administration, I don't automatically suspect every single thing they say and do is purely evil.

If your issue is that modern Presidents abuse the executive order, I'm on board 100%. I just think all the presumptions that Obama is doing something notably outrageous in this specific case are a knee-jerk overreaction to the usual fear-mongering and disinformation, not at all supported by the actual information available so far. If and when Obama actually proposes something outrageous, I'll join the chorus. For now, however, all we have is a lot of paranoid screeching based on a perverse caricature of Biden's actual words.

We'll see what comes of this as Biden was quite obviously testing the waters. I think the big difference is the subject at hand rather than the usual mundane issues that executive orders normally deal with. Obama has stated many times his opinions of the Constitution as not being relevant. I'd rather not fix what isn't broken, in my opinion, because of the "need for action" and an emotional response rather than one based in logic. Let Congress "try" to do their job and leave the executive order process out of this. Even if he attempts to limit magazine size by executive order he's out of line. We'll see...

 

[fskimospy]

Perhaps this is irrational, but while the Exec. Office isn't going to repeal the Second, we're seeing a situation where one man may effectively use his personal sensibilities to perform what is in fact the responsibility of Congress. It is that body, warts and all, which imperfectly creates legislation. The very idea of contemplating this act would have been considered absurd a few decades ago. I'm not referring to guns, but the hubris demonstrated by one individual as expressed through his mouthpiece, Biden.

In essence the message is "I don't like how Congress is handling this, so I'm taking it on myself to effectively write law to tell others what they must do. I don't need anyone's approval".

If it were the color of golf balls being discussed I would not be less disturbed by the attitude. No wonder so many feel there was nothing amiss with Morsi declaring himself a dictator to achieve a goal. No, I don't like it.

You realize that presidents using executive orders in such a fashion happens all the time, right? It's hardly something new, and Obama has done it less than most recent presidents.

Seems odd to be so bothered about something that has such a far reaching history, particularly when the guy in office now does it less than most.

 

[diesbudt]

We'll see what comes of this as Biden was quite obviously testing the waters. I think the big difference is the subject at hand rather than the usual mundane issues that executive orders normally deal with. Obama has stated many times his opinions of the Constitution as not being relevant. I'd rather not fix what isn't broken, in my opinion, because of the "need for action" and an emotional response rather than one based in logic. Let Congress "try" to do their job and leave the executive order process out of this. Even if he attempts to limit magazine size by executive order he's out of line. We'll see...

Well remember. Supreme court can overturn/block any exeuctive order. Being checks and balances.

And at the moment, they are still 5-4 in favor of most conservative views/for guns.