Biden hits the nail on the head!!No mincing words---

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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,841
8,305
136
Since you quoted my whole post and then began this one with 'Well I don"t" can you identify exactly what you refer to in it that you don't so I know what you don't 'whatever it is'. Also can you tell me what you said that you call a metaphor? So again I can be clear .............

As for the rest of your post, what can I say...... It sounds like a belief to me. All the stuff about belief that I told you including about the inevitible authoritarian left are things that I see in me. I am full of beliefs and beliefs I have no idea I believe. In this way perhaps what I am telling you isn't belief, but things I know because I have become aware of the fact that I really act on beliefs that I have uncovered I believe and know or presume there are more I don't see. If I have any skill at all it is some small resignation and acceptance that I am the thing that I hate including my contempt for the right. Hatred is authoritarian. I am the authoritarian left. It lives within me. It is that belief also, that creates the authoritarian right that is also within me. Tigers above and tigers below and then a strawberry that tasted so good. The conflict of duality resolves at it's collapse. There is only perfection and a glimpse of that fact changes everything.
When I began my post "Well, I don't" I was simply stating my disagreement with your assertion:

"It is certainly overly simplistic of you to regard the two major parties as on the other side of a semi-transparent mirror, IOW, basically reflections of one another and essentially without significant differentiation."

Hmm, "perfection." Don't know what you mean by that specifically in this context. Gotta say, though, that the word "perfection" is one I have trouble with. The more enlightened among us seem to feel it's a concept to avoid. An attachment to perfection can have deleterious effects. Good enough > perfection, because the pursuit of perfection, or insistence on it, can have negative consequences on balance. Just a meditation there, I won't put down the the concept of perfection, it's great, but just reflecting that an obsession with perfection can be problematic.

What I said that I call a metaphor was the use of the semi-reflective mirror through which left and right would see each other. I know, it's a weird metaphor but maybe ingenious here because of the inference that in seeing what you regard as your opposite you may actually be seeing yourself by virtue of the reflection in the semi-transparent mirror.

Your seeing yourself as the subject in your philosophies is actually an enlightened perspective. Most people are not so perceptive.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,699
6,196
126
When I began my post "Well, I don't" I was simply stating my disagreement with your assertion:

"It is certainly overly simplistic of you to regard the two major parties as on the other side of a semi-transparent mirror, IOW, basically reflections of one another and essentially without significant differentiation."

Hmm, "perfection." Don't know what you mean by that specifically in this context. Gotta say, though, that the word "perfection" is one I have trouble with. The more enlightened among us seem to feel it's a concept to avoid. An attachment to perfection can have deleterious effects. Good enough > perfection, because the pursuit of perfection, or insistence on it, can have negative consequences on balance. Just a meditation there, I won't put down the the concept of perfection, it's great, but just reflecting that an obsession with perfection can be problematic.

What I said that I call a metaphor was the use of the semi-reflective mirror through which left and right would see each other. I know, it's a weird metaphor but maybe ingenious here because of the inference that in seeing what you regard as your opposite you may actually be seeing yourself by virtue of the reflection in the semi-transparent mirror.

Your seeing yourself as the subject in your philosophies is actually an enlightened perspective. Most people are not so perceptive.
My point was that if there is conservative authoritarianism there will be liberal authoritarianism and the opposite way round. This is an inevitable consequence of the fact that we create what we fear. If you are aware of the fact that we create what we fear, how and why, then you will know this to be true and if you do not you will see that argument as one of both sides. But it is not a both sides argument in the fact that both sides are equal. It is an argument that the stronger the fear of the other, the stronger and more inevitable the response will be and that a proper progressive position will have to factor that in, that it will have to transcend fear or it will create what it fears. The right instantly detects this fact and calls it Trump Derangement Syndrome. But that exists only in the authoritarian left and is the result of the fear of the insanity on the Right. It is a rational fear compared to the paranoid right, but it is still fear and creates the same feeling that the danger deserves contempt and that any response is justified in bringing it down.

My answer to that is that the response to the conservative right where understanding is present will not be one of fear.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,841
8,305
136
My point was that if there is conservative authoritarianism there will be liberal authoritarianism and the opposite way round. This is an inevitable consequence of the fact that we create what we fear. If you are aware of the fact that we create what we fear, how and why, then you will know this to be true and if you do not you will see that argument as one of both sides. But it is not a both sides argument in the fact that both sides are equal. It is an argument that the stronger the fear of the other, the stronger and more inevitable the response will be and that a proper progressive position will have to factor that in, that it will have to transcend fear or it will create what it fears. The right instantly detects this fact and calls it Trump Derangement Syndrome. But that exists only in the authoritarian left and is the result of the fear of the insanity on the Right. It is a rational fear compared to the paranoid right, but it is still fear and creates the same feeling that the danger deserves contempt and that any response is justified in bringing it down.

My answer to that is that the response to the conservative right where understanding is present will not be one of fear.
With regard to right vs. left I sometimes think of Bob Dylan's observation that there's no right wing or left wing "just upwing and downwing."
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,699
6,196
126
With regard to right vs. left I sometimes think of Bob Dylan's observation that there's no right wing or left wing "just upwing and downwing."
Brain scans of people who purport to be liberal differ from the brains of people who say they are conservative. Some attribute it to genetics, but I think it's much more likely to be the difference childhood conditioning, how children were made to conform.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,841
8,305
136
Brain scans of people who purport to be liberal differ from the brains of people who say they are conservative. Some attribute it to genetics, but I think it's much more likely to be the difference childhood conditioning, how children were made to conform.
You speak of fear as a major part of the equation in the standoffs between liberals and conservatives. Speaking for myself, I don't have fear in this arena. The major emotion in me when I see/hear all this stuff going on these days in particularly national politics is anger. I get very angry, nonplussed frequently. I'm not afraid, however. What do I have to fear? Like a great friend of mine once told me, the worst they can do is kill you!
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,699
6,196
126
You speak of fear as a major part of the equation in the standoffs between liberals and conservatives. Speaking for myself, I don't have fear in this arena. The major emotion in me when I see/hear all this stuff going on these days in particularly national politics is anger. I get very angry, nonplussed frequently. I'm not afraid, however. What do I have to fear? Like a great friend of mine once told me, the worst they can do is kill you!

I can only answer this based on my own understanding, information I have been told or have uncovered as to how I work, through the process of trying to discovering what I feel.

Let me say first then that according to my understanding fear is not an emotion, it is what happens when all emotion is frozen, when we, as it were, become emotionally dead. It is the fear of realizing we are not really alive. It occurs when what we really feel starts to be come conscious and we flee in panic. Fear is the absence of feeling. It is the fear of dying but actually of knowing we are dead.

What happens when a person begins the journey to understanding what one feels. It is a journey that begins with the feeling that life is missing something or with a deep curiosity of how we operate. In the first case that's normally a state of depression, a sense that life is meaningless, absent joy. It is a step up from fear but is characterized by a sense of deadness perhaps not consciously recognized as such. Via self discovery one can come to see that depression is sadness and hopeless resignation.

If one puts up a fight on will begin a journey back to tears. One begins to awaken into the feeling that depression intended to hide, how deeply sad we are emotionally, how deeply we suffer. This of course, or of course to me, awakens rage. Rage is our defense against feeling sad. If one can go with the rage, and overcome the guilt one carries for being irrationally angry one will hit upon the real feeling, a deep sense of grief and it is this feeling of grief that will make us again alive. In grief we feel what our self hate has forbidden us to feel, real love and care for our selves.

We morn our deaths and in that way begin to heal. We will remember when and where we died and how and will see that this feeling is what we have feared needlessly. It is the psychic equivalent of resurrection and the goal of psychotherapy properly applied, at least in my opinion.

So what we fear is feeling what we feel and what we feel is that we are worthless and deserve to be dead. We fear feeling our pain and because we do that we suffer anyway, unconsciously. To die to the ego, the fearful one who will not feel, is to awaken in the kingdom of heaven where one knows at the deepest level that there was never anything wrong with us. We were trapped and strapped to the wheel of delusion that there is good and evil. There is only love and it's knowing that that we fear. We fear innocence and vulnerability, tenderness and joy, being real again.

No where to go, noting to do, nothing to become. Just Grace and awakening.
 

brandonbull

Diamond Member
May 3, 2005
6,330
1,203
126
Didn't take long for Biden to start with misleading facts and portrayals. I guess the Dems still haven't learned their lesson with honesty. As if anyone is surprised by that from Grandpa Touchy.
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,040
136
Didn't take long for Biden to start with misleading facts and portrayals. I guess the Dems still haven't learned their lesson with honesty. As if anyone is surprised by that from Grandpa Touchy.
Ah, so if anyone is spewing out "misleading facts and portrayals" you prefer it be Grandpa grab em by the pussy, Got it.
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
11,084
1,505
126
Didn't take long for Biden to start with misleading facts and portrayals. I guess the Dems still haven't learned their lesson with honesty. As if anyone is surprised by that from Grandpa Touchy.
The current Republican president has told literally over 10000 public lies since taking his oath of office (that he's violated like fucking crazy btw).
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,841
8,305
136
I can only answer this based on my own understanding, information I have been told or have uncovered as to how I work, through the process of trying to discovering what I feel.
-snip-
Well, I don't know what you do with your time but seems like you should be a professional psychotherapist or similar with your insights into mental states of people who have walled themselves off from their emotions. Yes, it's very very common, but of course there are lots of people who aren't so deluded. It's the presence of the awake who make life interesting. I encounter them all the time, in person and in the media. Yes, life is interesting ... if you insist that it be interesting, and I do.
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,659
491
126
Trump certainly has made it worse, but let's be honest it was on a downhill slope long before him.

Trump is a symptom of very real problems this nation has with economic inequality among other things... A symptom that can make things much worse.
But you're right he isn't in any way the root cause... as much as some would like to think that voting (impeaching him ) out of office might like to think the causes would go away.
We'd be better off with him gone but not taking care of the issues we would still have might just allow a smarter version of Trump to take advantage of the situation.

Before Biden even entered the race we already had another calling Trump (rightfully so imho) a pathological liar. pretty succinct and clear enough on Trump's character and all that such a description implies.


_____________
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,659
491
126
Biden isn't running to beat Trump, he was asked to run in case Trump loses, the thought of an anti business real progressive winning scares Wall Street and corporate America, he and the establishment Democrats were bought and paid off long ago that is why we ended up with someone like Trump today, because the Democrats were the only counter balance to the Republicans until they became republican-lite like the Clintons,

just step away from your Trump Derangement Syndrome and you will realize the republicans are winning because democrats abandoned the working middle class for virtue signaling, politically correct, social justice warrior, the rich supposedly liberal, just like the silicon valley types that look down at the "deplorables"that used to be the backbone of the democrat party, as no more than useful idiots to buy their products and services while exploiting people in Asia to produce them.


https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/26/bernie-sanders-elizabeth-warren-attack-joe-biden-corporate-ties.html
Wall Street critics and 2020 Democrats Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders take aim at Joe Biden’s corporate ties

https://www.leftvoice.org/joe-biden-wall-streets-best-hope-for-2020

Joe Biden: Wall Street’s Best Hope for 2020

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/03/biden-takes-wall-street-from-bloomberg


With Bloomberg Out, Wall Street Desperately Turns to Biden


https://www.thedailybeast.com/middl...ts-wall-street-oligarch-blackrocks-larry-fink

SAY NO, JOE
‘Middle Class Joe’ Biden Courts Wall Street Oligarch, BlackRock’s Larry Fink
The ex-veep says he’s the working man’s friend. How does that square with currying favor with financial world titan Larry Fink?


Not to mention this

Ocasio-Cortez says a Biden presidential run doesn't 'animate' her

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y., who was an organizer for Bernie Sanders’s 2016 campaign, said she will back whoever the Democrats nominate for president in 2020 — but she would clearly prefer someone other than former Vice President Joe Biden.

It's not exactly ageism it's the policies he has supported in the past. Tired AF policies sometimes.


________________
 
Reactions: ImpulsE69

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
Trump is a symptom of very real problems this nation has with economic inequality among other things... A symptom that can make things much worse.
But you're right he isn't in any way the root cause... as much as some would like to think that voting (impeaching him ) out of office might like to think the causes would go away.
We'd be better off with him gone but not taking care of the issues we would still have might just allow a smarter version of Trump to take advantage of the situation.

Before Biden even entered the race we already had another calling Trump (rightfully so imho) a pathological liar. pretty succinct and clear enough on Trump's character and all that such a description implies.


_____________

Much of what I talk about that seems to enrage many posters here is I'm one of those disenfranchised with the entire system. I try to be objective in the grand scheme of things, no matter how much I hate Trump...but that doesn't seem to be good enough for most. They want you 100% in agreeance with them or your 'an idiot' and 'on the other side'. People have turned personal opinion into complete black and white with no compromise. They are rightly frustrated, but they are indeed turning into the exact opposite of what they are railing against. That type of attitude has never solved anything and just furthers the divide. I would like if they'd just remove partisanship completely from their arguments and just argue the merit of the idea itself. No one is always going to agree on every subject and should not be thrown into 1 of 2 categories because of a disagreement on a few.
 
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