Biden's $1.9T Covid relief plan vs the Repub's $600B counter offer: Go it alone or bi-partisanship?

[darkswordsman17]

Do media sessions, outlining what they're pushing for and what the Republicans have offered. Tell them that its only a group of 10 Republicans even offering that and hammer that the rest of the Republicans aren't offering anything whatsoever. Say you met with the 10 out of good faith but feel their offer was not actually in good faith because of how limited it is and that you see Americans hurting and cannot accept such a lowball offer. Say that its past time for negotiating with such bad faith actors and are moving forward because Republicans are not taking it seriously, but repeat that you'd be more than happy for them to join on board with actually trying to help Americans suffering and would be happy to praise them for adding their names to a yes vote. Go out of your way to say you appreciate the 10 that at least tried to offer something, and say that hopefully in the future they can offer something more fitting and that you'd be happy to work with them.

 

[darkswordsman17]

I have minor degree in Economics and Major in Finance/Accounting. Simply put $15 minimum is a disaster for part of US. It will not make a difference in state that already have either $15 or very close to it. However it will be devastating in any state that currently have minimum wage under $11. $15 an hour will have domino effect.

Simple way of explaining $15 issue is to take landlord that goes to the store and buys grocery. The same grocery that landlord purchase before will go up. Reason being store needs to pay more to their employees, they need to pay for the produces more being farms now need to pay more to the workers and raised their prices. Same with truckers etc. In addition now landlord will also need to pay more to maid that cleans the building, handyman that fixes building issue etc as they all will be demanding more money etc. As result rent will go up as that is the only logical progression. It's one thing to raise minimum wage state by state gradually, but not by federal government and not to $15 for everyone.

You really have not been studying economics that much then. I think there's more studies showing minimum wage boosts help the economy and promote job growth than not.

Yes inflation happens, but its generally outstripped by overcoming wage stagnation which has gotten to a pretty severe point now. Also, inflation has been happening even with wages stagnating, so acting like it'd suddenly happen is silly.

There's a lot of things the government could be spending money on as well to boost the economy to overcome intransigence or jobs lost when businesses that can't afford to pay the minimum wage would go under. Health care, infrastructure, technology, education, social services.

Hell if you're so concerned about those states that can't afford it, then offer things like housing subsidies to get people to move to those places, and give businesses there tax credits for hiring people and paying them the minimum wage while you wait for the economy there to get boosted by it.

 

[gothuevos]

I think it's a good bill overall but the minimum wage bit seems out of place and risks torpedoing the entire thing. Either find compromise on that number or just remove it because it's not worth delaying aid any longer.

Look, we can debate the pros/cons of the minimum wage hike, but it just doesn't seem like this bill is the place for it.

 

[nOOky]

If the bill simply said "Corporate tax cut, and lower federal taxes for those making over $400,000 a year the Republicans would be all for it.

 

[ch33zw1z]

If the bill simply said "Corporate tax cut, and lower federal taxes for those making over $400,000 a year the Republicans would be all for it.

Yep, and as Sanders pointed out in the video, that was done under reconciliation.

 

[darkswordsman17]

I think it's a good bill overall but the minimum wage bit seems out of place and risks torpedoing the entire thing. Either find compromise on that number or just remove it because it's not worth delaying aid any longer.

Look, we can debate the pros/cons of the minimum wage hike, but it just doesn't seem like this bill is the place for it.

Out of place? Raising the minimum wage is a far better financial relief. Give tax relief to companies that do it while not laying anyone off, and an extra one if they even hire people (with some caveats with regards to them laying off employees during the next 12-24 months). Companies that lay people off should be audited and publicly shamed if they did crap that benefited stock holders or raised executive pay or bonuses while they laid people off. People laid off should qualify for extended unemployment benefits.

No, you can. But its clear that your intent is to waste time and prevent it from happening. Just know that you sound like a Turmp humping dipshit by doing so.

This is exactly the place for it. Americans need financial assistance. They've needed it for over a decade.

 

[K1052]

I think it's a good bill overall but the minimum wage bit seems out of place and risks torpedoing the entire thing. Either find compromise on that number or just remove it because it's not worth delaying aid any longer.

Look, we can debate the pros/cons of the minimum wage hike, but it just doesn't seem like this bill is the place for it.

Republicans aren't going to supply enough votes for a minimum wage hike. We also stuffed the last one into a defense and Katrina relief bill but had to sweeten it with tax cuts to get the GOP on board at the time. Sausage making is messy business so why not see what can skate past the parliamentarian. The issue on the Dem side seems to be what the size of the increase should be not if they should try. Poltically a boost to $11, $12, or $13/hr would make a big difference in places important to the Dems in 2020:


WI, PA, NC. Warnock could also use the help in GA since he's got to run in 2022.

 

[gothuevos]

Out of place? Raising the minimum wage is a far better financial relief. Give tax relief to companies that do it while not laying anyone off, and an extra one if they even hire people (with some caveats with regards to them laying off employees during the next 12-24 months). Companies that lay people off should be audited and publicly shamed if they did crap that benefited stock holders or raised executive pay or bonuses while they laid people off. People laid off should qualify for extended unemployment benefits.

No, you can. But its clear that your intent is to waste time and prevent it from happening. Just know that you sound like a Turmp humping dipshit by doing so.

This is exactly the place for it. Americans need financial assistance. They've needed it for over a decade.

Then prepare for it not to pass.

/shrug

 

[gothuevos]

Republicans aren't going to supply enough votes for a minimum wage hike. We also stuffed the last one into a defense and Katrina relief bill but had to sweeten it with tax cuts to get the GOP on board at the time. Sausage making is messy business so why not see what can skate past the parliamentarian. The issue on the Dem side seems to be what the size of the increase should be not if they should try. Poltically a boost to $11, $12, or $13/hr would make a big difference in places important to the Dems in 2020:


WI, PA, NC. Warnock could also use the help in GA since he's got to run in 2022.


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I agree, makes more sense to negotiate that actual number.

$15 is simply a nonstarter for many, many places.

 

[Wreckem]

Minimum wage shouldn’t be this difficult.

Have a base $10/hr and then have it variable based on geographic region and give a boost based on cost of living. Then tie it to inflation and have it automatically adjust every two years based on inflation.

 

[fskimospy]

Minimum wage shouldn’t be this difficult.

Have a base $10/hr and then have it variable based on geographic region and give a boost based on cost of living. Then tie it to inflation and have it automatically adjust every two years based on inflation.

The most important part of this would be to tie it to inflation so we can stop playing this stupid game.

 

[K1052]

The most important part of this would be to tie it to inflation so we can stop playing this stupid game.

Ditto for federal fuel taxes but I doubt we're going to get automatic adjustments with that either.

 

[Fenixgoon]

I agree, makes more sense to negotiate that actual number.

$15 is simply a nonstarter for many, many places.

if only prices rose a slight amount to account for the marginal increase in wages...

 

[Meghan54]

You really have not been studying economics that much then. I think there's more studies showing minimum wage boosts help the economy and promote job growth than not.

Yes inflation happens, but its generally outstripped by overcoming wage stagnation which has gotten to a pretty severe point now. Also, inflation has been happening even with wages stagnating, so acting like it'd suddenly happen is silly.

There's a lot of things the government could be spending money on as well to boost the economy to overcome intransigence or jobs lost when businesses that can't afford to pay the minimum wage would go under. Health care, infrastructure, technology, education, social services.

Hell if you're so concerned about those states that can't afford it, then offer things like housing subsidies to get people to move to those places, and give businesses there tax credits for hiring people and paying them the minimum wage while you wait for the economy there to get boosted by it.

Yeah....I forgot the INFLATION!!!!11 boogeyman. Just would have to ask the econ./finance major if inflation's such a bad ole horrid thing, why have all the "real" economists been lamenting our very low inflation rates and why has the Fed been trying to get some real inflation going in our economy for a while now?

 

[JEDI]

Fuck no you don't negotiate with them. They have done nothing but obstruct and water down legislation for the last 20 years. You just won the Senate promising relief so need to get it done. Don't be spineless.

It's interesting that things have shifted to 1400 instead of the loud calls for 2k last month. I realize that they are subtracting the 600 from the last bill, but you literally ran ads in Georgia saying 2k. I'm not sure how people will take that, but it's better than the Repugs 1k.

Devil's advocate:
well, Biden did promise for more bipartisanship.

Forcing his $1.9T package down the repubs throats as his 1st major bill doesn't bode well to his promise.

And will probably set the tone for the next 2 years

 

[Brainonska511]

Devil's advocate:
well, Biden did promise for more bipartisanship.

Forcing his $1.9T package down the repubs throats as his 1st major bill doesn't bode well to his promise.

And will probably set the tone for the next 2 years

It doesn't mean he needs to be a doormat. If the GOP wants to negotiate in good faith, have at it. All evidence from the Obama years to now suggests that the don't care to do that.

 

[woolfe9998]

Devil's advocate:
well, Biden did promise for more bipartisanship.

Forcing his $1.9T package down the repubs throats as his 1st major bill doesn't bode well to his promise.

And will probably set the tone for the next 2 years

Biden doesn't actually have much choice. If he agrees to anything even within the range of what those GOP Senators are suggesting, he's going to lose votes within their own caucus and the bill won't pass. Their proposal, or anything remotely like it, is a non-starter.

 

[HomerJS]

Devil's advocate:
well, Biden did promise for more bipartisanship.

Forcing his $1.9T package down the repubs throats as his 1st major bill doesn't bode well to his promise.

And will probably set the tone for the next 2 years

Biden can't make the GOP negotiate in good faith. They learned from 2009 if they low ball Joe it will stall the recovery and hurt him and the Dems for 2024 which is what they want.

Fuck them. Joe made the try now full steam ahead.

 

[gothuevos]

It doesn't mean he needs to be a doormat. If the GOP wants to negotiate in good faith, have at it. All evidence from the Obama years to now suggests that the don't care to do that.

He's damned if he does or doesn't. Might as well do something to help Americans and hope the voters remember that instead of him "not being bi-partisan enough" in month one of his presidency.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

States cannot print their own money. If they're not collecting taxes because businesses are shut down or the economy has slowed, they have no way of covering that revenue gap. The state literally has to shut down (state) government services.

$15/min wage is important if you want people to be able to support themselves and participate in the economy. And considering the federal minimum wage has not kept pace with inflation whatsoever, it's in desperate need of a raise (kinda like gas taxes which haven't moved since the 90s).

Repubs have shown they are not willing to negotiate or otherwise work in good faith - see everything Mitch McConnell has said/done. There is no reason to bargain with them. Throw a bone to Manchin and pass along 50+1 if need be. Repubs don't actually give a shit, and they've proven it over and over. If they had the Senate they'd just stonewall everything Biden had an interest in doing.

One state decides to drastically over-secure things by micro-managing to the point of closing off FAR EXCESSIVELY, thus their ridiculous costs are their own doing.

Why should the rest of the states bail them out? Just raise taxes on the wealthy

 

[Brainonska511]

He's damned if he does or doesn't. Might as well do something to help Americans and hope the voters remember that instead of him "not being bi-partisan enough" in month one of his presidency.

Also, f Republicans for complaining about bipartisanship now- it was all "elections have consequences" with them for the last few years.

 

[sportage]

Sen. Joe Manchin IS NOT a democrat. Not really. Not when his purpose is to screw up the democrat agenda and the Joe Biden agenda. Haven't we had quite enough of those "blue-dog" democrats in the party who also screwed up Obamacare by the way??? Including the 15 dollar an hour package seems like a very small issue compared to the large crap that republicans shoved into their legislation in the past AND that was then passed by republicans. And, $15 an hour seems a logical addition and requirement if we truly want to help those workers that have worked throughout the pandemic. It's the least we can do. It is the least we can do to help entry-level workers, low wage workers, and to reduce the need for future stimulus from the government. I would think that republicans would be for limiting the need for future stimulus spending by upping the minimum wage now. But lets be real. Democrats are serious about helping those hit hard by the pandemic where as for republicans it all comes down to ugly politics. For republicans, any help for the middle class always comes down to politics plain and simple.

 

[MrSquished]

Personally I think we should have a maximum wage for all these so-called 'low' level jobs. $5/hour

 

[sactoking]

A negotiation is only a negotiation if both sides are coming from a place of power. Negotiating over the price of a vehicle is a negotiation: the dealership has a vehicle the other party wants and the purchaser has money that the dealership wants.

Here the Republicans really don't have anything the Democrats want. Their "power" is solely superficial, adding the 'bipartisan' tag to something that is already going to pass. In return they're asking for GIGANTIC concessions from the other side. The Republicans overplayed their hand and they're going to get steamrolled.

 

[Meghan54]

Devil's advocate:
well, Biden did promise for more bipartisanship.

Forcing his $1.9T package down the repubs throats as his 1st major bill doesn't bode well to his promise.

And will probably set the tone for the next 2 years

Just being a devil's advocate....what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Trump's Tax Cut and Jobs Act of 2017, you know...the only major piece of legislation that was passed during Trump's reign...was passed via budget reconciliation. Trump used it twice, so I guess Biden's got two uses....just to be fair.