Biden's $1.9T Covid relief plan vs the Repub's $600B counter offer: Go it alone or bi-partisanship?

[jameny5]

Biden tells Democrats the COVID relief plan from Republicans is 'way too small'

Biden tells Democrats the COVID relief plan from Republicans is 'way too small,' McConnell says Democrats choosing 'partisan path'

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell criticized Democrats' decision to move forward. \

www.usatoday.com

The Democrat-led Senate advanced a process known as reconciliation that would allow them to pass Biden's $1.9 trillion COVID-19 relief proposal with just a simple majority and without Republican votes. It would avoid a filibuster.


1) What exactly is in the $350B state and local aid?

2) That $15/hr min wage is a non-starter.
One moderate Democrat, Sen. Joe Manchin, D-W.V., said the focus must be "targeted on the COVID-19 crisis."
He will not support a $15/hr minimum wage.

3) I understand Biden not trusting the Repubs.
When Obama was Pres, the Repub controlled senate delayed him for months in negotiations for various bills that went nowhere.
(Some Repubs admitted there was nothing Obama could have done to change their minds. Those bills were DOA. They just roped him along. )

I think Biden would rather have this relief bill passed now by shoving it down the Repubs throats vs months of negotiations/delay by going the bi-partisan route that might go nowhere.

Jedi is very knowledgeable and knows his shit. Let's do the rope-a-dope on the G.O.P. They did everything to block Obama and stop him from getting legislation through. McConnell used the filibuster skillfully and reconciliation to fill seats and get bills passed. Republicans don't want to compromise and work with Democrats! Screw them. We'll get the job done without them. We have been through this before. It's not the first rodeo show for Democrats. We are well versed in Republican games. They love winning seats and filling their bank and corporate accounts. This we know!!! It is our turn. McConnell will not dictate the terms.

 

[JEDI]

Biden can't make the GOP negotiate in good faith. They learned from 2009 if they low ball Joe it will stall the recovery and hurt him and the Dems for 2024 which is what they want.

Fuck them. Joe made the try now full steam ahead.

heard on news that Biden is willing to negotiate on the income cap of who gets the $1400 checks but he's not budging on the $1400 amount.
dont know what else he's wiling to negotiate.

i'm assuming if he cant reach a deal with the Repubs SOON that his original $1.9T bill be will the one thats going to be rammed down the Repubs throats?
(minus the $15 minimum wage because of that one lone Democrat)

also, in 2009, Didnt the Dems have majority in both chambers?
why did Obama negotiate with Repubs for so long on bills that ultimately failed when he could have just used reconciliation?

 

[feralkid]

Have we learned nothing from the economic crisis in 2008 or the ACA negotiations? All Republicans want t do is make it hard for Biden so they can get back in power in 2022. They don't give a shit about COVID relief for people.

Joe can continue to try but in the end Dems just need to go it alone

Exactly.

It's a complete farce.

"We Republicans are ready to negotiate"

 

[senseamp]

We had an election about do you want $600 or $2000. $2000 side won, so we'll get extra $1400. It's not rocket surgery.

 

[hal2kilo]

well, normally i agree.
but this group of 10 Repubs with the counter offer seem more moderate than the rest of the Repubs.

Are they really doing this because McConnell put them up to it just to set up Biden with months of delays and finally failure?

What? We need to give it just one more try to learn the same lesson over and over?

 

[hal2kilo]

Sen. Joe Manchin IS NOT a democrat. Not really. Not when his purpose is to screw up the democrat agenda and the Joe Biden agenda. Haven't we had quite enough of those "blue-dog" democrats in the party who also screwed up Obamacare by the way??? Including the 15 dollar an hour package seems like a very small issue compared to the large crap that republicans shoved into their legislation in the past AND that was then passed by republicans. And, $15 an hour seems a logical addition and requirement if we truly want to help those workers that have worked throughout the pandemic. It's the least we can do. It is the least we can do to help entry-level workers, low wage workers, and to reduce the need for future stimulus from the government. I would think that republicans would be for limiting the need for future stimulus spending by upping the minimum wage now. But lets be real. Democrats are serious about helping those hit hard by the pandemic where as for republicans it all comes down to ugly politics. For republicans, any help for the middle class always comes down to politics plain and simple.

I knew he would be nothing but trouble.

 

[MrSquished]

heard on news that Biden is willing to negotiate on the income cap of who gets the $1400 checks but he's not budging on the $1400 amount.
dont know what else he's wiling to negotiate.

i'm assuming if he cant reach a deal with the Repubs SOON that his original $1.9T bill be will the one thats going to be rammed down the Repubs throats?
(minus the $15 minimum wage because of that one lone Democrat)

also, in 2009, Didnt the Dems have majority in both chambers?
why did Obama negotiate with Repubs for so long on bills that ultimately failed when he could have just used reconciliation?

I think negotiating on the income cap is fine, as long as it keeps in mind folks who live in higher cost of living states. Also who is the lone Democrat against raising the federal minimum wage, is it Manchin?

 

[ewdotson]

Sen. Joe Manchin IS NOT a democrat. Not really. Not when his purpose is to screw up the democrat agenda and the Joe Biden agenda. Haven't we had quite enough of those "blue-dog" democrats in the party who also screwed up Obamacare by the way??? Including the 15 dollar an hour package seems like a very small issue compared to the large crap that republicans shoved into their legislation in the past AND that was then passed by republicans. And, $15 an hour seems a logical addition and requirement if we truly want to help those workers that have worked throughout the pandemic. It's the least we can do. It is the least we can do to help entry-level workers, low wage workers, and to reduce the need for future stimulus from the government. I would think that republicans would be for limiting the need for future stimulus spending by upping the minimum wage now. But lets be real. Democrats are serious about helping those hit hard by the pandemic where as for republicans it all comes down to ugly politics. For republicans, any help for the middle class always comes down to politics plain and simple.

I feel like people sometimes take the political theater that Manchin and the Dem leadership play with each other too seriously. His vote is generally there when it *really* matters. And let's be realistic - the alternative to Manchin is another Tuberville, not some sort of progressive. And without Manchin caucusing with the Dems, we'd be looking at at least another two years of McConnell being senate majority leader. And there'd be no chance of getting *anything* done.

 

[soundforbjt]

One state decides to drastically over-secure things by micro-managing to the point of closing off FAR EXCESSIVELY, thus their ridiculous costs are their own doing.

Why should the rest of the states bail them out? Just raise taxes on the wealthy

The same reason that state and lots of others fund the poor red states of the south.

 

[MrSquished]

One state decides to drastically over-secure things by micro-managing to the point of closing off FAR EXCESSIVELY, thus their ridiculous costs are their own doing.

Why should the rest of the states bail them out? Just raise taxes on the wealthy

When the Red States get walloped by hurricanes and need billions, do progressives now start saying fuck these people, they chose to live there out of their own doing? No, we help them out. When red state farms are hit hard by natural disasters or Trump's stupid trade war, do progressives now say fuck these people? Nope. Though in the Trump trade war they do point out the hypocrisy of the right in now being ok with government handouts all of a sudden. The fact is NYC was hit the hardest by a natural disaster through no fault of its own, and trashy people like you are gonna play political games with it, because that's what trashy conservatives do, day in and day out. Always trashy - keep on keepin' on. Seriously, fuck you people.

 

[brycejones]

Seriously, fuck you people.

Its what the ignore function is for. s0me0nesmind1 is just a troll. Don't feed the troll.

 

[Aikouka]

There are times when I think I might try to see the good in people where it doesn't or may not exist. I'd like to think that Republicans can be reasonable, because I'd hope that -- almost like Dr. Seuss's The Grinch -- these people could see past their own desires. In that sense, I am curious if the Republicans were more willing to meet in the middle or maybe even more toward the Democrat's position. Although, I believe I heard something about the Republicans considering their proposal to be an 80% compromise? ...if that's true, it doesn't give much hope.

I think negotiating on the income cap is fine, as long as it keeps in mind folks who live in higher cost of living states. Also who is the lone Democrat against raising the federal minimum wage, is it Manchin?

That's one thing that I've wondered about. A static income cap keeps things simple, which generally means a faster execution via the government, but it often results in a less effective result. When I was talking to my mom (a Republican) about stimulus checks, one of the things that I mentioned was that a cap in general is almost far too simplistic. I looked at the problem as two-fold...

1. Given the societal push for rampant consumption, (non-retirement) savings isn't a focus.
2. Using past tax returns doesn't really offer a viable picture of current conditions.

Ultimately, what this means is that if I look at someone making $80k a year in 2019 or 2020 and say that they're fine, I could be missing two important aspects... they could have been laid off after that point and may not have very good savings. Now, I'm not saying that a lack of savings shouldn't be their fault, but I'd like to think that living in a society that happily promotes buying the latest things means you can't really ignore the outcome of that.

Of course, as people are also bringing up, it's also worth considering that $80k is a lot different in the deep South than it is in southern California.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

When the Red States get walloped by hurricanes and need billions, do progressives now start saying fuck these people, they chose to live there out of their own doing? No, we help them out. When red state farms are hit hard by natural disasters or Trump's stupid trade war, do progressives now say fuck these people? Nope. Though in the Trump trade war they do point out the hypocrisy of the right in now being ok with government handouts all of a sudden. The fact is NYC was hit the hardest by a natural disaster through no fault of its own, and trashy people like you are gonna play political games with it, because that's what trashy conservatives do, day in and day out. Always trashy - keep on keepin' on. Seriously, fuck you people.

No idiot, we do the SAME thing that happens when wildfires occur in blue states - or when hurricanes hit blue states.

MONETARY BUDGET != disasters. Thats a moronic comparison DERP.

comparing a hurricane to how a state/city CHOOSES to respond to a pandemic is absolutely silly.

 

[Fenixgoon]

No idiot, we do the SAME thing that happens when wildfires occur in blue states - or when hurricanes hit blue states.

MONETARY BUDGET != disasters. Thats a moronic comparison DERP.

comparing a hurricane to how a state/city CHOOSES to respond to a pandemic is absolutely silly.

So we should let covid rage across the Midwest, South/West, and CA unabated because they didn't learn from New York?

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Republicans aren't going to supply enough votes for a minimum wage hike. We also stuffed the last one into a defense and Katrina relief bill but had to sweeten it with tax cuts to get the GOP on board at the time. Sausage making is messy business so why not see what can skate past the parliamentarian. The issue on the Dem side seems to be what the size of the increase should be not if they should try. Poltically a boost to $11, $12, or $13/hr would make a big difference in places important to the Dems in 2020:


WI, PA, NC. Warnock could also use the help in GA since he's got to run in 2022.


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As much as I think the concept of doing "reconciliation" bills is stupid on all sides - I don't see how a minimum wage hike doesn't directly effect reconciliation.... and I don't agree with it being $15 (hell, just look at Europe amounts being nowhere near that): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_Union_member_states_by_minimum_wage

The raising of the minimum wage would undoubtedly play a factor in tax revenue, and thus (IMO) is very much within the realm of "reconciliation". No?

 

[ElFenix]

I think negotiating on the income cap is fine, as long as it keeps in mind folks who live in higher cost of living states.

nope, fuck that. keep it where it was, don't go around breaking promises and scoring own goals immediately.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

So we should let covid rage across the Midwest, South/West, and CA unabated because they didn't learn from New York?

COVID is raging across all of the states - Texas included, but for some reason they don't need someone to hold their hand because they didn't institute moronic measures like demanding all bars, restaurants, gyms, nail salons, hair salons, massages, etc... to ALL close and remain closed for an extended period of time. They aren't complete morons.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

nope, fuck that. keep it where it was, don't go around breaking promises and scoring own goals immediately.

Most Americans are prime candidates for "Keeping up with the Jones" - so the fact that they make over $40k (or whatever the threshold is) doesn't take away that plenty of morons still live paycheck to paycheck even while making 60-80k.

Whether someone makes $40k or $80k, they are all prime candidates for losing their job and getting evicted.

Moving down that income amount by any substantial amount is pure stupidity.

 

[cytg111]

As much as I think the concept of doing "reconciliation" bills is stupid on all sides - I don't see how a minimum wage hike doesn't directly effect reconciliation.... and I don't agree with it being $15 (hell, just look at Europe amounts being nowhere near that): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_Union_member_states_by_minimum_wage

The raising of the minimum wage would undoubtedly play a factor in tax revenue, and thus (IMO) is very much within the realm of "reconciliation". No?

Nope. The EU countries with no minimum wages are those with the highest, and actually rivals or goes above “15$”, reason there is no official minimum wage is because unions do the work.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Most Americans are prime candidates for "Keeping up with the Jones" - so the fact that they make over $40k (or whatever the threshold is) doesn't take away that plenty of morons still live paycheck to paycheck even while making 60-80k.

Whether someone makes $40k or $80k, they are all prime candidates for losing their job and getting evicted.

Moving down that income amount by any substantial amount is pure stupidity.

Let's keep people at low wages because they'll keep themselves in wage slavery regardless of whether we increase their income or not? Well goddamn.

Mind you those morons are the same people who a) are essential workers b) stimulate the economy by buying shit in the first place

 

[nakedfrog]

I saw a segment where they reviewed what happened with the last $600 check, basically most people making under $78k spent it, and most making more than that saved it.

Edit: found the data: https://opportunityinsights.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Oi_Secondstimulus_analysis.pdf

 

[MrSquished]

No idiot, we do the SAME thing that happens when wildfires occur in blue states - or when hurricanes hit blue states.

MONETARY BUDGET != disasters. Thats a moronic comparison DERP.

comparing a hurricane to how a state/city CHOOSES to respond to a pandemic is absolutely silly.

As usual you are clueless. Yes how red states choose to respond to hurricanes at this point is a choice. Hurricanes are a known entity so these red states should have been much better after each one in upgrading infrastructure to deal with the storms and high water volume intakes, even better building codes and retrofitting, moving people out of certain areas, etc... At this point they have no excuses, but yet everytime a hurricane hits we gotta fork over tens of billions. And I never ever thought twice about it, until the Trump GOP started pitting red states against blue states in regard to the pandemic, a once every CENTURY event at best. In regards to the pandemic being worse in NYC, it goes over your head that NYC is different than any other city in the country - being the most visited and also most dense by far (and that includes Staten Island, practically the burbs). There are a lot of factors at play, most of which are far too complex for you to figure out on your own. Houston, while being 4th or 5th in total population isn't even in the top 50 in density. I've been to a lot of the largest cities in the country, most of them look like sprawled out villages compared to NYC. It's a different animal that requires a slightly different response. Let's take restaurant and bars for example - while I think Cuomo should have loosened restrictions slightly earlier, he is a bit too much of a micromanager, but NYC is a different animal than say a Houston. Bars and restaurants are mostly relatively small due to much higher real estate prices. It would simply be far more difficult to mitigate the Covid spread in tighter quarters even with reduced capacity. Plus the reliance on subways for transport, spitting out drunk people into small enclosed subway cars would be disastrous. Anyways, there are a lot of things at play here, way too complex for an average conservative dolt to comprehend.

 

[dank69]

I have minor degree in Economics and Major in Finance/Accounting. Simply put $15 minimum is a disaster for part of US. It will not make a difference in state that already have either $15 or very close to it. However it will be devastating in any state that currently have minimum wage under $11. $15 an hour will have domino effect.

Simple way of explaining $15 issue is to take landlord that goes to the store and buys grocery. The same grocery that landlord purchase before will go up. Reason being store needs to pay more to their employees, they need to pay for the produces more being farms now need to pay more to the workers and raised their prices. Same with truckers etc. In addition now landlord will also need to pay more to maid that cleans the building, handyman that fixes building issue etc as they all will be demanding more money etc. As result rent will go up as that is the only logical progression. It's one thing to raise minimum wage state by state gradually, but not by federal government and not to $15 for everyone.

Fuck off, comrade

 

[fskimospy]

One thing I think is pretty crazy is that only in America is it strange that the party which has a majority in all elected parts of government would choose to enact its agenda.

The Democrats won everything! They even won it when they had to not only get a majority but get five points on top of that! That’s a mandate.

 

[Zorba]

It's to penalize States that took appropriate measures to limit the spread of COVID. States where revenue is down due to mandates.
They also limited who gets those checks. GOP caps it at 50K for individuals and phase out for couples starting at 80K with a hard cap of 100K, thus limiting the amount of money that goes to states with higher costs of living (blue states )

For the most part I'm a pro the Biden bill and all for throwing the reps crap in the trash. But the checks are stupid, have been stupid the other 2 times as well. All of the check money should've been used to extend unemployment. Now that money should be used to help people payoff the massive debts they've racked up to their utilities and/or landlords. Giving people that never lost their jobs $3400 is stupid, when there are much more important things for that money to go to.

I know Biden is locked in it now since they campaigned on it in Georgia, but I still wish they hadn't.