Biden's $1.9T Covid relief plan vs the Repub's $600B counter offer: Go it alone or bi-partisanship?

Page 6 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
30,160
3,302
126
So, about the Manchin-Collins amendment to ensure the checks are targeted at lower and middle-class earners and which passed 99-1. Here's the text of the amendment:

https://www.manchin.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Manchin-Collins Targeted EIP.pdf?cb

You may note a distinct lack of the "phase things out at $50k" thing being codified into the amendment. In fact, it leaves things to the discretion of the chair of the Senate Budget Committee. Which is to say - Bernie Sanders.

I think I see why there was very little pushback on this.
Was the $15 min wage left in it?
 

amenx

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 2004
4,011
2,279
136
With all this printing money for these relief plans, stage being set for the collapse of the U.S. dollar.
 

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
9,139
5,074
136
Quick buy Silver, Gold, BTC, dogecoin, ETH.

There is some dude who can teach you how to build a self contained fish farm. Recycle your poo into fish to eat for the coming apocalypse.

There is rhythm to that they are supposed to follow.
Buy gold and silver.
Buy commemorative plates.
Ask their doctors about (insert med name here)
Call the personal injury attorney.
Dial the number to talk to an Attorney about your Mesothelioma and what you might be owed
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,693
25,013
136
There is rhythm to that they are supposed to follow.
Buy gold and silver.
Buy commemorative plates.
Ask their doctors about (insert med name here)
Call the personal injury attorney.
Dial the number to talk to an Attorney about your Mesothelioma and what you might be owed
Commemorative plates are an important keep sake and valuable heirloom to hand done through the generations. Someday they might be worth 20% of their original cost.
 
Reactions: Ken g6

obidamnkenobi

Golden Member
Sep 16, 2010
1,407
423
136
So, about the Manchin-Collins amendment to ensure the checks are targeted at lower and middle-class earners and which passed 99-1. Here's the text of the amendment:

https://www.manchin.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Manchin-Collins Targeted EIP.pdf?cb

You may note a distinct lack of the "phase things out at $50k" thing being codified into the amendment. In fact, it leaves things to the discretion of the chair of the Senate Budget Committee. Which is to say - Bernie Sanders.

I think I see why there was very little pushback on this.

I've seen talk of phase out from $80k family income, to same as last one, which was $150k? Seriously doubt eligibility will go up. We didn't get anything last time so think we're SOL on this one too.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,810
29,564
146
With all this printing money for these relief plans, stage being set for the collapse of the U.S. dollar.
I shall patiently await the day that happens so that you can come back here and tell us all that you told us so.
 
Reactions: Meghan54

Meghan54

Lifer
Oct 18, 2009
11,573
5,096
136
My only concern about the minimum wage increase was doing it during this pandemic recession, with so many small retail businesses failing all over the country. There are states where they're going to have to more than double what they pay their workers. Well, turns out that what's in the bill will increase it to $15/hr incrementally over 5 years. I'm back to supporting it.


Psssttt.....here's a hint: that's the way it's always done. Introduce it in stages over a period of years. Did you never bother to even skim the highlights of how minimum wage increases are introduced, like how this bill's structured, prior to all your commentary about said bill?
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,493
3,159
136
This legislation will be a true test of Joe Biden. Republicans like Mitch McConnell are whining about “how dare the Democrats”, when all that Democrats are doing is playing the very same hardball republicans have been playing for years. Mitch McConnell stole away president Obama’s US Supreme Court justice yet Moscow Mitch has the nerve to bitch about legislation that includes a minimum wage, halting the keystone pipeline, and restrictions on fracking? Seriously Mitch? God love Joe Biden and Chuck Schumer for telling the republicans to F-OFF on this one. For not playing the little games republicans love so much to play against Democrats. Like endless negotiations over meaningless details that no republican will vote for in the end. I sure hope that Biden and all Democrats stick to their guns and ram this legislation thru exactly as Joe Biden wants it. $1400 and not one dime less, and the $15 wage that the middle class has been waiting for long enough. Hell... money never matters when republicans are handling out tax cuts for the rich, no amount is too great for upper tax cuts, but just let some minimum wage worker ask for a decent wage and all hell breaks out in the Republican house of bull shit.
 
Reactions: chowderhead

chowderhead

Platinum Member
Dec 7, 1999
2,633
263
126
This legislation will be a true test of Joe Biden. Republicans like Mitch McConnell are whining about “how dare the Democrats”, when all that Democrats are doing is playing the very same hardball republicans have been playing for years. Mitch McConnell stole away president Obama’s US Supreme Court justice yet Moscow Mitch has the nerve to bitch about legislation that includes a minimum wage, halting the keystone pipeline, and restrictions on fracking? Seriously Mitch? God love Joe Biden and Chuck Schumer for telling the republicans to F-OFF on this one. For not playing the little games republicans love so much to play against Democrats. Like endless negotiations over meaningless details that no republican will vote for in the end. I sure hope that Biden and all Democrats stick to their guns and ram this legislation thru exactly as Joe Biden wants it. $1400 and not one dime less, and the $15 wage that the middle class has been waiting for long enough. Hell... money never matters when republicans are handling out tax cuts for the rich, no amount is too great for upper tax cuts, but just let some minimum wage worker ask for a decent wage and all hell breaks out in the Republican house of bull shit.
here is what McConnell said in 2017:
“They had their shot in the election. ... But in this country when you win the election you get to make policy. I always remind people, winners make policy and losers go home."


Go Home! Moscow Mitch.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,102
136
Psssttt.....here's a hint: that's the way it's always done. Introduce it in stages over a period of years. Did you never bother to even skim the highlights of how minimum wage increases are introduced, like how this bill's structured, prior to all your commentary about said bill?

No, I hadn't.
 

alexruiz

Platinum Member
Sep 21, 2001
2,836
556
126
I have minor degree in Economics and Major in Finance/Accounting. Simply put $15 minimum is a disaster for part of US. It will not make a difference in state that already have either $15 or very close to it. However it will be devastating in any state that currently have minimum wage under $11. $15 an hour will have domino effect.

Simple way of explaining $15 issue is to take landlord that goes to the store and buys grocery. The same grocery that landlord purchase before will go up. Reason being store needs to pay more to their employees, they need to pay for the produces more being farms now need to pay more to the workers and raised their prices. Same with truckers etc. In addition now landlord will also need to pay more to maid that cleans the building, handyman that fixes building issue etc as they all will be demanding more money etc. As result rent will go up as that is the only logical progression. It's one thing to raise minimum wage state by state gradually, but not by federal government and not to $15 for everyone.

Your degree is from trump university, right?
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,581
7,641
136
I agree, makes more sense to negotiate that actual number.

$15 is simply a nonstarter for many, many places.

To match the value of labor Baby Boomers enjoyed, that number would have to sit around $25.
Imagine that, living life as well as they did. Can't have that. Fight tooth and nail over every scrap, tell the people they need to suffer for quarter profits.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,581
7,641
136
That makes absolutely zero sense.

Some greater context on the subject.

Biden Beats Back The Austerians At The Gates

Today, by contrast, economists increasingly accept the idea that deficits are not inherently destabilizing, but a normal part of economic management. The price of going too big isn’t a crash, but a little unwanted inflation ― something that can be reined in through Federal Reserve policymaking or some tax increases from Congress. These may be unpleasant when they come, but it will be much worse for people to lose jobs, incomes and homes in the meantime. When the costs of going too small are shattered families and broken faith in a shared national project, the choice is not difficult.

Republicans have not learned a lesson from 2008/9. They are still stuck on failed economic policy - and they have every intention of dragging the rest of us down with them.
 
Dec 10, 2005
24,432
7,356
136
To match the value of labor Baby Boomers enjoyed, that number would have to sit around $25.
And where did that $25 come from? Minimum wage needs to be set at $25/hr to be equivalent to generations past. The $2/hr minimum wage in 1974 adjusted for inflation, would be ~$10.50/hr today.

To get the benefits a lot of baby boomers enjoyed, we merely need to fund services and opportunities at levels they received - cheap higher education and massive expansion in the building of housing would be some good starts.
 
Reactions: Ken g6

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,815
49,509
136
Some greater context on the subject.

Biden Beats Back The Austerians At The Gates

Today, by contrast, economists increasingly accept the idea that deficits are not inherently destabilizing, but a normal part of economic management. The price of going too big isn’t a crash, but a little unwanted inflation ― something that can be reined in through Federal Reserve policymaking or some tax increases from Congress. These may be unpleasant when they come, but it will be much worse for people to lose jobs, incomes and homes in the meantime. When the costs of going too small are shattered families and broken faith in a shared national project, the choice is not difficult.

Republicans have not learned a lesson from 2008/9. They are still stuck on failed economic policy - and they have every intention of dragging the rest of us down with them.
I disagree - they know the lesson perfectly well, as evidenced by deficit bonanzas under Reagan, GWB, and Trump. The thing is that they believe a well functioning economy hurts them politically so they would prefer to sabotage the country.
 

Meghan54

Lifer
Oct 18, 2009
11,573
5,096
136
And where did that $25 come from? Minimum wage needs to be set at $25/hr to be equivalent to generations past. The $2/hr minimum wage in 1974 adjusted for inflation, would be ~$10.50/hr today.

To get the benefits a lot of baby boomers enjoyed, we merely need to fund services and opportunities at levels they received - cheap higher education and massive expansion in the building of housing would be some good starts.

Raise the top marginal tax rate back to 90% like it was in the 1950's?
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
23,653
10,515
136
This legislation will be a true test of Joe Biden. Republicans like Mitch McConnell are whining about “how dare the Democrats”, when all that Democrats are doing is playing the very same hardball republicans have been playing for years. Mitch McConnell stole away president Obama’s US Supreme Court justice yet Moscow Mitch has the nerve to bitch about legislation that includes a minimum wage, halting the keystone pipeline, and restrictions on fracking? Seriously Mitch? God love Joe Biden and Chuck Schumer for telling the republicans to F-OFF on this one. For not playing the little games republicans love so much to play against Democrats. Like endless negotiations over meaningless details that no republican will vote for in the end. I sure hope that Biden and all Democrats stick to their guns and ram this legislation thru exactly as Joe Biden wants it. $1400 and not one dime less, and the $15 wage that the middle class has been waiting for long enough. Hell... money never matters when republicans are handling out tax cuts for the rich, no amount is too great for upper tax cuts, but just let some minimum wage worker ask for a decent wage and all hell breaks out in the Republican house of bull shit.
They really are all just a bunch of sore loser, bad sportsmanship, kind of group. We make the game rules.
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,431
3,535
126
In Indiana, single, no kids, $6.00 an hour is povery. The $7.25 minimum wage is barely above that, and a living wage for a single person, no kids is $11.04 an hour. Single with 1 kid, that living wage shoots up to $23.01. So, if $15.00 an hour is considered middle class, then you just proved that a $15.00 minimum wage is needed, as the middle class can't even afford to have 1 offspring. it will influence other wages to increase as well.


Often 'Living wage calculators' leave some room for debate as to what is a living wage. For example this one doesn't pick the lowest cost FDA food plan designed to meet nutritional and caloric needs - the "Thrifty food plan" but goes a step higher. It also assumes a single person rents an apartment without roommates and spends the median dollar amount of all single person households in Indiana on Apparel, Housekeeping supplies, Reading, Personal care products and services and "Misc." Given those methods of calculation I'd argue that a living wage would actually be lower than $11.04 in Indiana.

That said I am in favor of raising the minimum wage - just nitpicking about the name of that calculator.
 
Reactions: weblooker2021
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |