Big truck does BIG damage to Bastille Day celebrators

Page 16 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
When they speak, we should listen.

Omar Ahmad, co-founder of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, the top Muslim lobby group in Washington: “Islam isn’t in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Quran should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,884
569
126
Who is to gain more from these attacks - the Western governments or the so-called ISIS terrorists?
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
And they do a whole bunch of speaking.

CAIR spokesman Ibrahim Hooper: “I wouldn’t want to create the impression that I wouldn’t like the government of the United States to be Islamic sometime in the future.”
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
Ok I read the article and I don't think it helps you much. Most of the countries listed as practicing Sharia law are countries that no secular humanist would want any part of. They are not first world nations by any stretch of the imagination.

They however did mention the UK. I looked into the UK and sharia more closely. I will concede that it does somewhat back up your contention that Sharia can coexist within the context of a Western secular nation if it is almost completely neutered. You will need to concede on your part that it enables Muslim men to oppress Muslim women. Sharia law is clearly inferior to Western law and as a secularist I simply do not want it in my country.

From Wiki:

This raises the interesting question. Is this version of Sharia law that most Muslims in the PEW research center are supportive of? I strongly suspect not but I do not believe I can prove it. I also believe that Sharia courts will tend to divide members of a country and create an "us" and "them". They need to interact and befriend non-Muslims. I accept that is a two way street.

Sharia law is in your country, it has been since your country has been founded

Maybe this is a better link

https://ing.org/a-closer-look-at-sharia-in-the-united-states/
 

justoh

Diamond Member
Jun 11, 2013
3,686
81
91
Why did you leave this part out?

Quote:
But I'm not going to do anything violent to promote that. I'm going to do it through education.

I wouldn't call lying to and terrorizing people (especially children) education. Are they not all told (at least) that there's a celestial dictator who can read their minds and punish them for what they think? That there's a hell? Compelled to love someone whom they fear? Psychological violence.
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,884
569
126
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7nu5NmaKtw

Why not ask an islamic teacher/leader directly? ^^^

The video you linked shows a guy with a beard and a garb. I suppose you believe this guy is a "Muslim" because of this and because he is a Imam. But please tell us, do you really know him? Do you know what kind of a person he truly is? No, you don't. You just wanted us to watch a stupid little video to make some sort of point.

This supposed Muslim leader could be a charlatan like many of the religious leaders are. After all, many become leaders due to various unsavory reasons. Just look at the other religions and see what goes on there. It's not just in one religion or another.

By the way, I see all sorts of people - races, religions, nationalities. I see far more similarities between them than differences. I see that they are all doing some thing that is going to better their life (or they think it is). They are all doing something in their own self interest. They all have similar anxieties and fears too, as hard as it may be to believe.

We're not that different as people as we are led to believe. Please don't let the media and the governments divide us any more than we are. Go out and see how people really are. They are just like you in many, many ways.
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
Sharia law is in your country, it has been since your country has been founded

Maybe this is a better link

https://ing.org/a-closer-look-at-sharia-in-the-united-states/

Well by the soft definition of Sharia law in your link:
Muslims follow Sharia in the same way that people of other faiths follow their sacred laws and traditions. The Constitution, especially the religion clauses of the First Amendment, sets the framework for how Americans of various religious persuasions practice their religious traditions. The First Amendment allows complete freedom of belief and freedom of religious practice, so long as believers respect other people’s rights.

No rational person could object. For the record, I no nothing about the group that runs the site. They appear to be a moderate muslim organization working to improve relations between muslims and the rest of America. I certainly support such efforts.

The important thing to stress is the following, I believe in the PEW poll the definition of Sharia law was different. It was in fact the percent of muslims that support making Sharia the official law of the state. I just confirmed that fact. Looking at the site however, I do not see the views of Muslims living in Western countries.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/

It should be noted that Islam is growing faster than the world's population. They are taking over the world.

 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
It should be noted that Islam is growing faster than the world's population. They are taking over the world.

It would be cool if you could find an animated map of Islam spreading across the world until total Islamic dominance, with a countdown
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
It would be cool if you could find an animated map of Islam spreading across the world until total Islamic dominance, with a countdown

LoL! I don't think I am going to do that. Earl, I respect your opinion and recognize that its comes from the best of places. Perhaps Hitchens and Harris have poisoned me beyond redemption. Who knows?
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
I wouldn't call lying to and terrorizing people (especially children) education. Are they not all told (at least) that there's a celestial dictator who can read their minds and punish them for what they think? That there's a hell? Compelled to love someone whom they fear? Psychological violence.

Ya, I grew up that way too
I turned out fine
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
On the contrary, they seem to have had no impact on you at all.

Perhaps you are correct and perhaps I have misinterpreted Sam Harris's worldview. What did I say that conflicts with Sam Harris? I am genuinely curious.
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
Love this quote by Sam:

The conflict between religion and science is inherent and (very nearly) zero-sum. The success of science often comes at the expense of religious dogma; the maintenance of religious dogma always comes at the expense of science.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
So you acknowledge that a significant and growing percentage of muslims are not integrated into European societies, are bankrupting the host countries, are filling its prisons and your solution is to open the floodgates? That does not seem to be in intelligent. It would seem more logical to CLOSE permanently the floodgates and then take steps to integrate and westernize the Muslims that are already there. Think about it for a second. Your country is FAILING miserably in integrating a large and growing segment of the population. That segment is responsible for the most of the crime in your country and is a breeder for terrorism. Why would you divert more of your increasingly limited resources to growing this disaffected group instead of attempting to Westernize and integrate the existing population?

Sam Harris is right but he is losing the argument, even though all the evidence and data proves him correct. If you are a true rational empiricist, you would recognize the cogency of his arguments.

It's worth recognizing that Original Earl's analogy is rather apropos. Muslims in france are largely a legacy of its colonial past in africa. Unfortunately they never really had their AA or similar post-civil rights era policies for integration so the slums are pretty much what they are in all these countries. Like brazil where the favelas exhibit a distinct lack of white skin/features. The common explanation for this obvious discrepancy, particularly in the past, is that negros and such are genetically inferior.

So to understand your/Harris/etc's proposition more clearly/correctly, it's that we should stop importing people that we set up to fail. That's a fair enough point, but the problem isn't really with the immigrants.

To head off potential counterargument about other immigrant ethnicities at the pass, observe that there's various "china-towns" in many metros in the US. Well, it so happens that chinamen shared a social status with negros at eras in time, imported once for their manual labor and well known for their opium dens which supposedly seduce white womens and whatnot, leading to a virtual ban in immigration policy which you can google. I have it on pretty good authority that triads continue to operate through those historically impoverished areas, but you don't hear much about it for reasons what will become clear soon enough.

Despite this the new story of chinese here once immigration was allowed again is that of college students, and now their nouveau riche. So the interaction the gen pop have is with high (math) achievers in college, or at least rich ones. The funny because it's true comedy in this case is that even kids who aren't descendants of the new crop of immigrants are now expected to achieve in school.

So the question is, how did the "chinese" genome/culture change in those intervening years from born criminals quite literally barred from entry to the technorati?


10% of France's population is Muslim. 75% of its prison population is Muslim. That is an objective fact. I got tons of stats like this. Do you really want to get into the terrorist attacks stats in America where the Muslim population is less than 1% but accounts for over 50% of terrorist fatalities? You are an objective empiricist. Data should matter to you.

I recall France doesn't actually collect ethnic demographic data so those are always going to be estimates, though that number from you keeps going up so it's pretty clear how those estimates tend to work.

The stat itself is also misleading (in addition to somewhat skewed to start with) because prisoners often convert to islam after the fact to get in with the groups inside. This happens with some frequency in the US also, as you'll find many of these muslims are black and certainly didn't grow up in a muslim household.

The reason why muslims account for 50% or whatever of "terrorist" fatalities is because what poor people fighting is labelled. Dropping a laser guided missile on some hapless civilians isn't "terrorism" by definition because that's something we'd do.
 
Last edited:

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
Love this quote by Sam:

That's pretty wrong since the vast majority of science has nothing to do with religious dogma.

Harris should know better, too, since most of what little research he does revolves around taking fMRIs of the brain which I'm pretty sure didn't exist back in jesus/mohammed's days for them to contradict.
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,884
569
126
Yeah maybe more Muslims in France are disproportionately in jail due to various reasons. I doubt they have the same resources, trials, arrests as the native French person. I also doubt they have the same job opportunities or the support system as the native French person. I could go on and on but there is always more to the story than simply stating numbers.

I'm sure the recently emigrated white Europeans were probably disproportionately more likely to be in jail than the native white American in the early 20th century. But there is more to the story.
 

michal1980

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2003
8,019
43
91
Yeah maybe more Muslims in France are disproportionately in jail due to various reasons. I doubt they have the same resources, trials, arrests as the native French person. I also doubt they have the same job opportunities or the support system as the native French person. I could go on and on but there is always more to the story than simply stating numbers.

I'm sure the recently emigrated white Europeans were probably disproportionately more likely to be in jail than the native white American in the early 20th century. But there is more to the story.

Typical liberal. Always blame everyone else.
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,884
569
126

Interesting the the most liked comment there is one that says "Everyday my hatred of Islam grows deeper."

This guy shows his slanted view of history and all his followers are eating his hatred up. But that's why they are his followers. That's what they want to hear.

On his website, he says:

"Our Mission

Political Islam has subjugated other civilizations for 1400 years. Our mission is to educate the world about political Islam, its founder Mohammed, his political doctrine and his god, Allah."

It is interesting to see he says "...and his god, Allah" like its his own god.

By the way, he claims to "educate" people about Islam yet his message is nothing but destructive. That's some good educating he's doing there. A real educator would not start off with such a biased, one sided and totally divisive view before he studies his subject.
 
Last edited:

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
Yeah maybe more Muslims in France are disproportionately in jail due to various reasons. I doubt they have the same resources, trials, arrests as the native French person. I also doubt they have the same job opportunities or the support system as the native French person. I could go on and on but there is always more to the story than simply stating numbers.

I'm sure the recently emigrated white Europeans were probably disproportionately more likely to be in jail than the native white American in the early 20th century. But there is more to the story.

It's actually quite analogous to the african american, or old timey chinese story. North africans are brought into France as cheap labor, and end up in the slums as second class citizens.

With white immigrants the degree of segregation isn't nearly as complete. That's sort of how racism works. Even so, our statistical view is distorted because of how we see white people as a monotonous. For example, much of the hick/rube south are descendants of folks from the british isles, which makes for some comedy like closer proximity of the southern accent to ye old english common speak than received pronunciation. Yes, black folks arguably talk more like the british did than the guy on BBC.
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |