Bigots United . . .

[marincounty]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: marincounty

Originally posted by: ijester
My god, is Steeplerot an opiniated, misguided idot.

I read this entire post, and not once is there a shred of statistical or factual evidence to back a single word of his drivel. Just a bunch of snide and innacurate namecalling.

If I snuck into a country illegally, how would it be fascist of them to kick me back out? If I snuck into your house, that would be trespassing. The exact same thing, only on a different scale.

The problem is that if you want to better your life, you should be willing to EARN that right. Nobody is owed a better life. That is one of the many reasons illegal immigration is a problem. One of the other reasons is the bleeding heart liberals that think they should help the 'poor illegal immigrants' before they would make one tiny bit of effort to help their poor american neighbor take care of themselves when their neighbor loses their job and ends up homeless. Or help feed all the hungry american people. Or contribute to the lack of medical care for millions of americans.

We really need to take care of those problems and all the others before we start wasting valuable resources on those that can't be bothered to earn the right to be here.

As opposed to the right-wingers who like to encourage illegals to come here and do their dirty work for low pay, and then don't want to provide them with any services, don't want them to get a drivers license, etc.
I haven't heard one right-wing Republican calling for increased taxes to support our hospitals and emergency rooms.
Where is all of that money the Govt is going to reimburse the states for caring for and incarcerating illegals?
Didn't you get the message? Bush (and Republicans) don't care about the poor.
But they're building schools in Iraq....

lol, im HAPPY that they're not calling for higher taxes... eliminate pork spending, on every side of the aisle, and redirect THOSE funds to the hospitals and such... but higher taxes?! screw that noise...

I've got some bad news for you, Bush has already raised your taxes. By giving tax cuts with borrowed money, he has blown up the deficit, which will have to be paid back with..
Bingo..more taxes.
Once again, the irresponsible "pie in the sky, tax cuts for everyone" Republicans will have to be bailed out by hard-working commonsense Americans-they're called Democrats.

 

[ijester]

Unfortunately, the only way we can ever really get many of the major problems taken care of is to somehow make the government account for where every dollar goes. And as long as most Politicians number one use of their power is to... well... remain in power that will not happen.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: ijester
Unfortunately, the only way we can ever really get many of the major problems taken care of is to somehow make the government account for where every dollar goes. And as long as most Politicians number one use of their power is to... well... remain in power that will not happen.

answer: a gigantic groundswell movement screaming for term limits on the House and Senate.

but it will probably never happen... I still cannot fathom how/why our founding fathers left them out to begin with. The only reason I can come up with was their own lust for endless power; but that flies in the face of all of their selfless acts. so wtf?

 

[ta8689]

Originally posted by: JacobJ

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: JacobJ

Originally posted by: RichardE
Nothing wrong with protecting your interests against criminals...


Illegals "Are" criminals.

Go fsck off. That what ignorant comments like yours make me want to say.

CaptnKirk is right. The illegal immigration issue if chock full of racism.

but they are, being illegaly in the country is what defines them as a group

I would say the "illegality" of what defines "Them" is only valid from an ignorant perspective. These are people -- they are not defined by laws. Laws are irrelevant in the definition of who they are.

you sir, are a fvcking idiot. I hope you drown in your stupidity. They are Illegal because they come into our country by jumping boarders. They dont have to understand a word of english, they dont have to know anything about our country, they just come in. That is the ILLEGAL PART YOU IDIOT. They are ILLEGAL immigrants. So you say laws are irrelevant in the defeinition of who they are? So if laws are irrelevant and i killed someone that wouldnt make me a murderer? Yeah, bullsh!t. They ILLEGALLY IMMIGRATED here. Therefore, they are an ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT. Classified by what they did, just like a murderer. Im not a racist. See, i dont care what you look like. I care how you act. If you act like some uneducated ignorant moron that grew up in the ghetto, and doesnt give a sh!t about anything, then i dont like you. If you did grow up in the ghetto, but try to be a good person and put forth an effort in life, I have no problem at all with you; it doesnt mater if your black, mexican, oriental, etc. And if you feel that the mexicans acros the boarder dont have equal oppertunity as us, well thats just too damn bad, because they werent born in america and dont get our rights. not our fault. I hate illegal immigrants. I believe i have some family member (mom's counin's something) that is an illegal immigrant, and for all i care, they can be hauled off and thrown back where they came from. I think they make over 200,000 a year, and she isnt even a legal citizen. Ok im pissed enough im goin to bed.

 

[stevent76]

I got an idea. Why dont the people who are opposed to this law attempt to jump the border to get into Mexico, go steal there jobs, dodge there taxes (if they have them) and then see what happens to you. I can understand people wanting to come here to make a better life for there families. They just need to do it the right way.

I live in an area of Atlanta that is mostly Hispanic. Most of the signs are either in English and Spanish or just Spanish. The majority of these people know about five words in English. (most of them are about how much they want for work). Doesnt something seem wrong with this picture?

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: stevent76
I got an idea. Why dont the people who are opposed to this law attempt to jump the border to get into Mexico, go steal there jobs, dodge there taxes (if they have them) and then see what happens to you. I can understand people wanting to come here to make a better life for there families. They just need to do it the right way.

I live in an area of Atlanta that is mostly Hispanic. Most of the signs are either in English and Spanish or just Spanish. The majority of these people know about five words in English. (most of them are about how much they want for work). Doesnt something seem wrong with this picture?

Sounds like you should learn some spanish, we have no official language we are the only civilised country that does know know the language of our neighbors, yes there is something wrong with this picture, and it is us, not them.

The southwest has ALWAYS been spanish speaking this is nothing new, it is american education system that is lagging behind the times reality is spanish speakers becasue of our geographical location have always been heavy in our population, and they will be the majority soon like it or not, either keep up with the times or fall behind because you hold onto some outdated view that this country will always be white dominated. That time is over.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: ijester
My god, is Steeplerot an opiniated, misguided idot.

No, I am seeing this from a realistic point of view not hindered by old stereotypes of a america that never existed.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: stevent76
I got an idea. Why dont the people who are opposed to this law attempt to jump the border to get into Mexico, go steal there jobs, dodge there taxes (if they have them) and then see what happens to you. I can understand people wanting to come here to make a better life for there families. They just need to do it the right way.

I live in an area of Atlanta that is mostly Hispanic. Most of the signs are either in English and Spanish or just Spanish. The majority of these people know about five words in English. (most of them are about how much they want for work). Doesnt something seem wrong with this picture?

Sounds like you should learn some spanish, we have no official language we are the only civilised country that does know know the language of our neighbors, yes there is something wrong with this picture, and it is us, not them.

The southwest has ALWAYS been spanish speaking this is nothing new, it is american education system that is lagging behind the times reality is spanish speakers becasue of our geographical location have always been heavy in our population, and they will be the majority soon like it or not, either keep up with the times or fall behind because you hold onto some outdated view that this country will always be white dominated. That time is over.

Still preaching your racist bullcrap I see. Why don't you go get a job or do something otherwise constructive instead of slandering everybody who disagrees with you?

I don't want to learn Spanish. What is my incentive to do so? Even if I did, it wouldn't change my opinion about illegals coming into the US.

Are you going to pay me to learn it? Shall I learn Chinese and Japanese too?

Now the people coming into the US, an English speaking country have an incentive to learn English, or at least you would think they would.

Or are you saying they're not smart enough to learn English? Now that would be racist.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit


Still preaching your racist bullcrap I see. Why don't you go get a job or do something otherwise constructive instead of slandering everybody who disagrees with you?

Well, get the facts and stop being ignorant, your choice, and I am employed gainfully, thanks for your concern over my finances but I can take care of my own.

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
I don't want to learn Spanish. What is my incentive to do so? Even if I did, it wouldn't change my opinion about illegals coming into the US.

Are you going to pay me to learn it? Shall I learn Chinese and Japanese too?

You are not forced to go to college either, but it is a big advantage the future of america is bilingual resist it all you want but you are the one impeding yourself.

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Now the people coming into the US, an English speaking country have an incentive to learn English, or at least you would think they would.

We are not a "english speaking country" nor have we ever been, getting close to half and rising are spanish, soon to be the majority. the days of a white english speaking ruled country are done, kick and scream all you want it just makes you look like a bigot.

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Or are you saying they're not smart enough to learn English? Now that would be racist.

No, they are either too bigoted or lazy to think ahead or they think they are too good to educate themselves as the rest of the world and *gasp* learn another language. Trust me noone feels sorry for you, the rest of the world educates themselves in languages.
There are even studies that have shown bilingual people grow up to be smarter.

It is not americans fault alone though, we have a racist system set up that looks down on any other culture and language then our own, hence the big USA #1 complex we have, its just an extension of the whites racism issues we have had since day 1. Americas history is littered with white racial dominace over others. Our own history is against us here.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit


Still preaching your racist bullcrap I see. Why don't you go get a job or do something otherwise constructive instead of slandering everybody who disagrees with you?

Well, get the facts and stop being ignorant, your choice, and I am employed gainfully, thanks for your concern over my finances but I can take care of my own.

Your the one being ignorant.

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
I don't want to learn Spanish. What is my incentive to do so? Even if I did, it wouldn't change my opinion about illegals coming into the US.

Are you going to pay me to learn it? Shall I learn Chinese and Japanese too?

You are not forced to go to college either, but it is a big advantage the future of america is bilingual resist it all you want but you are the one impeding yourself.

I don't need to learn a second language. The only country I've ever been to was Canada. I've neve even been on a commercial jet. Why the hell should someone like me need to learn a second language? It would be an IGNORANT waste of time for me.

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Now the people coming into the US, an English speaking country have an incentive to learn English, or at least you would think they would.

We are not a "english speaking country" getting close to half and rising are spanish the days of a white anglo english speaking country are done.

Prove it. Link to the 150 million spanish speaking people in the US please.

Thought not, just more hot air from a know-it-all who make things up as he goes along.

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Or are you saying they're not smart enough to learn English? Now that would be racist.

No, they are either too bigoted or lazy to think ahead or they think they are too good to educate themselves as the rest of the world and *gasp* learn another language.[/quote]

Once we get this cheap labor "guest worker" program going, maybe I'll learn spanish so I can hire a couple of them to do my dirty work on the corporate hog farm I'm planning.

Seriously Steep, your as bad if not worse of a troll on this issue then Rip or Zen are on abortion.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Seriously Steep, your as bad if not worse of a troll on this issue then Rip or Zen are on abortion.

No, it's more like you are on rip and zens side of this and you see me as being out of line.

Plenty of people not having issues with this and can handle the rather complicated issue without blowing their lid, look at the ones who are on the freak out were being invaded trip lets deport them all.

Yeah, its the rip and zenny types, not me. Thing is who wants to bother debating the worst of the bigotry and irrational fearmongering being fed to a good part of america? Time and time again I am the only one who will stand up to the rabid mouth foamers on the worst issues. I dont mind the endless flames and namecalling for pointing out how all the BS fed to people on their TV and hate radio is crap, moderates will usually gripe some when the hype is biggest then figure out its all a game, some though take it to heart and believe is some whacked out sh1t, this time one scapegoating millions of familys. Someone has to step up as this forum is quite middle class and not frequented all that often by those who deal with these issues day to day.

I am but a lowly PC tech from california who has worked side by side with immigrants and undocumented workers in the back of shops across america over the years and shared neighborhoods with them for over a decade, I know the time, and it is a dark time when those who work hard and ask so little are made out to be evil. I wont stand for it.

I raise the proverbal middle finger to all out of touch haters looking for a cheap way to scapegoat those who really have noone to defend them from you all.

You all should be ashamed to call yourselves americans, you are nothing less then a bunch of immigrant mutts who are acting like I got mine so screw you using playing the "illegal catchphrase" game to cover the real problem you have.

 

[maluckey]

Time and time again I am the only one who will stand up to the rabid mouth foamers on the worst issues.

Perhaps this should read:

Time and time again I am the only stand up rabid mouth foamers on the worst issues.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: maluckey

Time and time again I am the only one who will stand up to the rabid mouth foamers on the worst issues.

Perhaps this should read:

Time and time again I am the only stand up rabid mouth foamers on the worst issues.

My apologies for quick edits, this keyboard is a shop hand-me down and some keys stick, and some letters I must copy and paste from character mapper.

And no, I am not a mouth foamer, but I do get pissed when I encounter massive bigotry and noone challenges it.

The irony that a bunch of immigrants decendants could act so self-centered. You all should be ashamed. All the time hiding behind some lame excuse like the law instead of making a stand for what is the american thing to do. A bunch bigoted cowards, but then that is usually how it works.

Can't grow a pair to take on the corporations or government who causes so many economic refugees so you target a bunch of ultra-poor familys with no shame at all even bashing them for going to hospitals. Sickening.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

And no, I am not a mouth foamer, but I do get pissed when I encounter massive bigotry and noone challenges it.

It's not bigotry to favor letting the best, most educated immigrants into this country first. That will do everyone more good in the long run. It's like a form of triage.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

And no, I am not a mouth foamer, but I do get pissed when I encounter massive bigotry and noone challenges it.

It's not bigotry to favor letting the best, most educated immigrants into this country first. That will do everyone more good in the long run. It's like a form of triage.

We do not need formerly educated folks, (we get plenty of those from other countries) we already have plenty of middlemen and corporate cubicle dwelling zombies here and not enough doers, obviously, or these poeple would not be employed.


NAFTA = economic carpetbombing of mexicos laborers and farmers:
Like I said a million times, look at WHY all these people come up here, they are being raped by the US and corporations into no other choice then to migrate and leave their homes behind. It's plain sick to blame them for our ills.

Seriously, it's like the neocon view of OBL hitting us becasue "they hate our freedums" to say they come here to just steal our jobs and leech off of welfare. We know there is another side to 9/11 over there and there is another side to the story.

Either way the end result is trouble for america, but once again step back from the easy soloutions handed to you by the corporate media (hate our freedums/illegal=end of story) to cover someone up tops ass and look at the big picture.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

And no, I am not a mouth foamer, but I do get pissed when I encounter massive bigotry and noone challenges it.

It's not bigotry to favor letting the best, most educated immigrants into this country first. That will do everyone more good in the long run. It's like a form of triage.

We do not need formerly educated folks, (we get plenty of those from other countries) we already have plenty of middlemen and corporate cubicle dwelling zombies here and not enough doers, obviously, or these poeple would not be employed.

But they're employed at poverty levels and are forcing wages down putting even more people into poverty, straining our resources even more.

According to Dr. Steven Camarata, "Immigrants at Mid-Decade: December 2005," www.cis.org, 31 percent of adult immigrants lack high school diplomas. Immigrant heads of households utilize a whopping 29 percent of welfare programs. The average illegal alien household head costs US taxpayers $2, 700.00 in welfare benefits annually over and above any taxes he/she pays or does not pay. The poverty rate of immigrants and their children stands at 18.4 percent which is 57 percent higher than American citizens. Immigrants and their children account for one in four persons living in poverty. One-third of immigrants lack health insurance, which accounts for millions visiting ER wards at taxpayer expense as mandated by the Federal Government.

Why do we need these people here if we are already in a situation where we don't have enough demand for labor to pay a living wage? Bring the educated ones over who can start/manage a business, that will increase the demand for labor and benifit everyone. Then we can start letting in more of the uneducated.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit


Why do we need these people here if we are already in a situation where we don't have enough demand for labor to pay a living wage? Bring the educated ones over who can start/manage a business, that will increase the demand for labor and benifit everyone. Then we can start letting in more of the uneducated.

We do have enough demand for a living wage, look at who is telling you they can't afford to pay a fair share, the same union busting cororation loving neocons who want to screw all of us out of our fair share of the pie, pitting the working class against one another with cheap xenophobic tactics for the scraps they throw us is the fools answer.

Don't think for a minute the powers that be didnt use these same arguements that america was full and we cant afford any more against your ancestors. Because they did. And they were wrong then as they are now.

It's a setup for them to stir the racism pot to get us to accept lower wages as they make a killing with a legit labor force to be expoloited. The same way they used slave labor to make a killing throughout american history.

Got a suckass paycheck? blame the working class below you for your ills, while the rich fvck us all with record profits. And people fall for it time and time again.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit


Why do we need these people here if we are already in a situation where we don't have enough demand for labor to pay a living wage? Bring the educated ones over who can start/manage a business, that will increase the demand for labor and benifit everyone. Then we can start letting in more of the uneducated.

We do have enough demand for a living wage, look at who is telling you they can't afford to pay a fair share, the same union busting cororation loving neocons who want to screw all of us out of our fair share of the pie, pitting the working class against one another with cheap xenophobic tactics for the scraps they throw us is the fools answer.

We should, we earned, we deserve it, but we don't. Management can force labor to labor, but labor has a very hard time forcing management to manage.

It's the new world free market that's biting us in the ass. I think you are right in the long run about getting more people in the country, but they need to have a job that is good enough to keep them off of the welfare roles or we are just going backwards.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit


Why do we need these people here if we are already in a situation where we don't have enough demand for labor to pay a living wage? Bring the educated ones over who can start/manage a business, that will increase the demand for labor and benifit everyone. Then we can start letting in more of the uneducated.

We do have enough demand for a living wage, look at who is telling you they can't afford to pay a fair share, the same union busting cororation loving neocons who want to screw all of us out of our fair share of the pie, pitting the working class against one another with cheap xenophobic tactics for the scraps they throw us is the fools answer.

We should, we earned, we deserve it, but we don't. Management can force labor to labor, but labor has a very hard time forcing management to manage.

It's the new world free market that's biting us in the ass. I think you are right in the long run about getting more people in the country, but they need to have a job that is good enough to keep them off of the welfare roles or we are just going backwards.

It is our job to fight the global enslavement by multinationals, (NAFTA, CAFTA WTO) what is happening on our borders is a direct result of this new world order scam, we screwed their poor out of their way of making a living and look what happens. People come here to work for a living wage, this is no time to sit back and accept it, it is a big scam and we all know who is profiting.

Not the mexicans fault, them coming here is blowback once again to american corporate imperialism, granted it is altogether not a bad thing to grow our workforce as america is a special situation for dealing with large influx of immigrants, that is unless they are used as a tool to manipulate us against one another in a very unamerican way.

The answer once again, just as it always is, is to hold fast to what made this country strong, not to take the easy way out and buy into the neocons BS.

The world is starting to reject american imperialism by the corporations, south america and mexico are electing leftist leaders who directly oppose this and the one phrase that rings out on all their lips is no corporate imperialism by america, a global economy is fine, but not one that rapes the world for our benefit only.

 

[1EZduzit]

The more labor we let into this country, the cheaper people will have to work. We've already let so many in that they are costing us more in welfare then they are paying into the system and they are dragging other people down with them.

I believe we need the educated immigrant who will bring with him the abitlity to provide more jobs instead of uneducated peope who are draining the welfare system and basically only benifit the people who employ them.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
The more labor we let into this country, the cheaper people will have to work.

Simple economics say this is not true as they pay more taxes and produce more product bringing more money to the economy.

Take a look at some of the SS security plans shown, same idea, we will not even be able to pay for SS unless we get these mexican workers paying taxes and growing our economy,

The white middle class is in decline from age, time to get a new "boomer" workforce to take up the slack of retirees taxes we will be lacking VERY soon.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
The more labor we let into this country, the cheaper people will have to work.

Simple economics say this is not true as they pay more taxes and produce more product bringing more money to the economy.

umm, they're not paying taxes! that's half of the problem right there!

Last year alone (2005), Mexicans sent $18 billion is un-taxed cash back to their families in Mexico. (source: current issue of Scientific American)

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
The more labor we let into this country, the cheaper people will have to work.

Simple economics say this is not true as they pay more taxes and produce more product bringing more money to the economy.

umm, they're not paying taxes! that's half of the problem right there!

Last year alone (2005), Mexicans sent $18 billion is un-taxed cash back to their families in Mexico. (source: current issue of Scientific American)

They do pay taxes and get NO returns. Some don't but every mexican worker I have ever known uses a SS card which is the easiest thing to counterfit, more BS.

Then add in how much we rape from mexico with NAFTA and that suppossed 18 billion is nothing.

Keep buying the BS to justify your pathetic little conservative crusade against the poor.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit


Why do we need these people here if we are already in a situation where we don't have enough demand for labor to pay a living wage? Bring the educated ones over who can start/manage a business, that will increase the demand for labor and benifit everyone. Then we can start letting in more of the uneducated.

We do have enough demand for a living wage, look at who is telling you they can't afford to pay a fair share, the same union busting cororation loving neocons who want to screw all of us out of our fair share of the pie, pitting the working class against one another with cheap xenophobic tactics for the scraps they throw us is the fools answer.

Don't think for a minute the powers that be didnt use these same arguements that america was full and we cant afford any more against your ancestors. Because they did. And they were wrong then as they are now.

It's a setup for them to stir the racism pot to get us to accept lower wages as they make a killing with a legit labor force to be expoloited. The same way they used slave labor to make a killing throughout american history.

Got a suckass paycheck? blame the working class below you for your ills, while the rich fvck us all with record profits. And people fall for it time and time again.

LOL, talking to you is WORSE then trying to talk to Zentroll. The bigger the supply of labor you have, the less you can demand for your labor. It's that simple.

I propose to bring in a larger number of educated people vs the uneducated, but apparently you don't have enough common sense to see the benifit of that.

Hell, according to you we should bring all of China here so provide us with the economic benifit of cheap labor. That would really improve our standard of living, wouldn't it.

 

[nergee]

Steeplerot.....don't label all conservatives as those against the poor. My views tend
to lean on the conservative side but I do agree with you on this subject 100%.