Bill Ford Jr. 'It would have been so catastrophic...it would have brought down

[MikeMike]

The entire industry, and in some ways, the entire U.S. economy, was riding on the survival of GM and Chrysler, says Ford Motor Co executive chairman Bill Ford, Jr. "It would have been so catastrophic to have a supply-base meltdown because it would have brought down all the auto manufacturers and frankly some other industries as well," Ford told CNBC TV according to an Automotive News report.

A cascading chain of bankruptcies was one of the primary fears of an unassisted GM or Chrysler bankruptcy. Because so many companies rely on GM and Chrysler to purchase their parts, and because there's no easy replacement outlet for those parts, there's no way for the supplier base to survive without them.

http://www.motorauthority.com/...aved-the-industry.html

So, while we sit here and bitch about Barney abusing his privileges... (where is Betty when we need her anyways? get your husband back in check.) We have the information, from a company who gets to sit back and laugh, that they were fearing for their lives, and the lives of everyone else... without Gov't aid, the auto industry would have been in free fall.

 

[Genx87]

The auto industry is in free fall and there is still a cascade of bankruptcies including both Chrysler and GM.

 

[MotF Bane]

So does this mean Ford plans on being next?

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Genx87
The auto industry is in free fall and there is still a cascade of bankruptcies including both Chrysler and GM.

True that. It seems the bailout did what I thought it would do, which was to push the problem ahead several months without actually solving anything else whatsoever. And that's why Chrysler and GM both filed for bankruptcy anyway.

Now with some parts supplies denied extra money from Obama's car group, we can see how Bill Ford Jr.'s prediction pans out.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

I don't understand how GM and Chrysler part suppliers going out of business would affect Ford? Is he saying that Ford uses GM and Chrysler parts in their vehicles?

Out of the "Big 3", the only one that has a glimmer of hope is Ford. GM and Chrysler are still an absolute disaster and are basically zombies. I fail to see how the bailout did anything other than flush taxpayer's money down the drain to postpone the inevitable.

 

[Craig234]

You would think that people would pay attention to the fact that Ford is in a great position to criticize the bailouts if they wanted to, as the company who 'didn't need them' they could point fingers and be resentful their compatitors were helped - so it really says something for them to say the opposite that the bailouts of their competitors were critically important.

I'm suspicious when the government says 'you have to accept this radical policy because there is a terrible problem if you don't'. I recognize that as the most common way governments twist the arms of their citizens to get bad policies passed that the public is against for good reason (see war, e.g., Vietnam and Iraq).

But sometimes, they're right. Can the public understand those too?

The more important thing IMO is the government taking steps to fix the reason the problem happened (which we have not done with war, obviously, though Congress did make some attempt over Vietnam by passing the War Powers Act preventing the president from just waging unlimited undeclared war).

 

[MikeMike]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
I don't understand how GM and Chrysler part suppliers going out of business would affect Ford? Is he saying that Ford uses GM and Chrysler parts in their vehicles?

Out of the "Big 3", the only one that has a glimmer of hope is Ford. GM and Chrysler are still an absolute disaster and are basically zombies. I fail to see how the bailout did anything other than flush taxpayer's money down the drain to postpone the inevitable.

you know how a ball of yarn is wrapped around the middle section, well picture the manufacturers aka GM TM F Chry H Hyundai etc. as the center section... and then the yarn is the suppliers... witness how if you take the core out, everything attached to it crumples... that is the auto industry.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
I don't understand how GM and Chrysler part suppliers going out of business would affect Ford? Is he saying that Ford uses GM and Chrysler parts in their vehicles?

Out of the "Big 3", the only one that has a glimmer of hope is Ford. GM and Chrysler are still an absolute disaster and are basically zombies. I fail to see how the bailout did anything other than flush taxpayer's money down the drain to postpone the inevitable.

you know how a ball of yarn is wrapped around the middle section, well picture the manufacturers aka GM TM F Chry H Hyundai etc. as the center section... and then the yarn is the suppliers... witness how if you take the core out, everything attached to it crumples... that is the auto industry.

I got that point, but how does GM and Chrysler suppliers going out of business affect Ford at all, unless Ford is using GM and/or Chrysler parts (which I don't think they are)?

GM and Chrysler go down, their suppliers go down, but that still leaves Ford and their suppliers ready to fill the void.

I really think Ford Jr. is just taking the "politically correct" approach to this given the current administration's tendency to persecute individuals (especially ones with money and power) who aren't "on board".

 

[eleison]

Originally posted by: Craig234
You would think that people would pay attention to the fact that Ford is in a great position to criticize the bailouts if they wanted to, as the company who 'didn't need them' they could point fingers and be resentful their compatitors were helped - so it really says something for them to say the opposite that the bailouts of their competitors were critically important.
.

Nobody criticizes Obama motors.. .Nobody!!! remember the fly? Criticize Obama motors.. and you criticize the Messiah himself... Next thing you know, your could be out of a job or worse.. You want oversight.. you want the law to protect you.. Obama is the law!!! chicago style politics!!! hahaha ;-)

 

[1prophet]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
I don't understand how GM and Chrysler part suppliers going out of business would affect Ford? Is he saying that Ford uses GM and Chrysler parts in their vehicles?

Out of the "Big 3", the only one that has a glimmer of hope is Ford. GM and Chrysler are still an absolute disaster and are basically zombies. I fail to see how the bailout did anything other than flush taxpayer's money down the drain to postpone the inevitable.

you know how a ball of yarn is wrapped around the middle section, well picture the manufacturers aka GM TM F Chry H Hyundai etc. as the center section... and then the yarn is the suppliers... witness how if you take the core out, everything attached to it crumples... that is the auto industry.

I got that point, but how does GM and Chrysler suppliers going out of business affect Ford at all, unless Ford is using GM and/or Chrysler parts (which I don't think they are)?

GM and Chrysler go down, their suppliers go down, but that still leaves Ford and their suppliers ready to fill the void.

I really think Ford Jr. is just taking the "politically correct" approach to this given the current administration's tendency to persecute individuals (especially ones with money and power) who aren't "on board".

The parts suppliers diversified and make parts for many manufacturers because they can't survive on one alone, their margins are very tight and if they lose just one major customer they can can go bankrupt very quickly shutting down the entire operation and affecting all the rest of their customers.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: 1prophet

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
I don't understand how GM and Chrysler part suppliers going out of business would affect Ford? Is he saying that Ford uses GM and Chrysler parts in their vehicles?

Out of the "Big 3", the only one that has a glimmer of hope is Ford. GM and Chrysler are still an absolute disaster and are basically zombies. I fail to see how the bailout did anything other than flush taxpayer's money down the drain to postpone the inevitable.

you know how a ball of yarn is wrapped around the middle section, well picture the manufacturers aka GM TM F Chry H Hyundai etc. as the center section... and then the yarn is the suppliers... witness how if you take the core out, everything attached to it crumples... that is the auto industry.

I got that point, but how does GM and Chrysler suppliers going out of business affect Ford at all, unless Ford is using GM and/or Chrysler parts (which I don't think they are)?

GM and Chrysler go down, their suppliers go down, but that still leaves Ford and their suppliers ready to fill the void.

I really think Ford Jr. is just taking the "politically correct" approach to this given the current administration's tendency to persecute individuals (especially ones with money and power) who aren't "on board".

The parts suppliers diversified and make parts for many manufacturers because they can't survive on one alone, their margins are very tight and if they lose just one major customer they can can go bankrupt very quickly shutting down the entire operation and affecting all the rest of their customers.

Thank you for the explanation...that makes sense. However, the parts supplies could trim down their operations. Yes, jobs would be lost, but we are all called upon to sacrifice by our supreme leader!

What's worse...jobs lost as operations trim down, or billions of tax payers dollars down the drain AND jobs lost?

 

[Craig234]

nm

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: 1prophet

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
I don't understand how GM and Chrysler part suppliers going out of business would affect Ford? Is he saying that Ford uses GM and Chrysler parts in their vehicles?

Out of the "Big 3", the only one that has a glimmer of hope is Ford. GM and Chrysler are still an absolute disaster and are basically zombies. I fail to see how the bailout did anything other than flush taxpayer's money down the drain to postpone the inevitable.

you know how a ball of yarn is wrapped around the middle section, well picture the manufacturers aka GM TM F Chry H Hyundai etc. as the center section... and then the yarn is the suppliers... witness how if you take the core out, everything attached to it crumples... that is the auto industry.

I got that point, but how does GM and Chrysler suppliers going out of business affect Ford at all, unless Ford is using GM and/or Chrysler parts (which I don't think they are)?

GM and Chrysler go down, their suppliers go down, but that still leaves Ford and their suppliers ready to fill the void.

I really think Ford Jr. is just taking the "politically correct" approach to this given the current administration's tendency to persecute individuals (especially ones with money and power) who aren't "on board".

The parts suppliers diversified and make parts for many manufacturers because they can't survive on one alone, their margins are very tight and if they lose just one major customer they can can go bankrupt very quickly shutting down the entire operation and affecting all the rest of their customers.

Thank you for the explanation...that makes sense. However, the parts supplies could trim down their operations. Yes, jobs would be lost, but we are all called upon to sacrifice by our supreme leader!

What's worse...jobs lost as operations trim down, or billions of tax payers dollars down the drain AND jobs lost?

This is not necessarily true. We have suppliers shared with GM/Chrysler that decided it was best to just close up shop due to lost revenue from GM/Chrysler than continue to do business. Just because you are diversified doesn't mean it still makes business sense to continue running if 80% of your business is gone. This is especially important in certain tasks where the same amount of overhead is required whether you are at 100% capacity or 1% capacity.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: eleison
Nobody criticizes Obama motors.. .Nobody!!! remember the fly? Criticize Obama motors.. and you criticize the Messiah himself... Next thing you know, your could be out of a job or worse.. You want oversight.. you want the law to protect you.. Obama is the law!!! chicago style politics!!! hahaha ;-)

You have no idea how that poor fly felt, being laid off.

 

[MovingTarget]

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
I don't understand how GM and Chrysler part suppliers going out of business would affect Ford? Is he saying that Ford uses GM and Chrysler parts in their vehicles?

Out of the "Big 3", the only one that has a glimmer of hope is Ford. GM and Chrysler are still an absolute disaster and are basically zombies. I fail to see how the bailout did anything other than flush taxpayer's money down the drain to postpone the inevitable.

you know how a ball of yarn is wrapped around the middle section, well picture the manufacturers aka GM TM F Chry H Hyundai etc. as the center section... and then the yarn is the suppliers... witness how if you take the core out, everything attached to it crumples... that is the auto industry.

As with any industry, you eventually have to remove the government support from the middle of it. (This should apply to many other industries, but I digress) I think the issue here, to use a yarn analogy, is whether we are sticking with a toilet paper tube to rewind the yarn. It isn't pretty, but it works for a little while. People are expecting to use an actual ball-winder to get it going though, and I'm not so sure that is happening. When you do things the right way and use the actual winder, the threads are much more ordered and tightly woven, so that the skein can stand on its own without collapsing. It is all about the tools you use, and only time will tell with General Mopar.

Disclaimer: MovingTarget's fiancee is a knitter, so he knows an unholy amount of information about yarn short of actually owning sheep. It is kinda scary at times.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: eleison

Originally posted by: Craig234
You would think that people would pay attention to the fact that Ford is in a great position to criticize the bailouts if they wanted to, as the company who 'didn't need them' they could point fingers and be resentful their compatitors were helped - so it really says something for them to say the opposite that the bailouts of their competitors were critically important.
.

Nobody criticizes Obama motors.. .Nobody!!! remember the fly? Criticize Obama motors.. and you criticize the Messiah himself... Next thing you know, your could be out of a job or worse.. You want oversight.. you want the law to protect you.. Obama is the law!!! chicago style politics!!! hahaha ;-)

Hopefully someone in his corrupt gang reads this and gets you.

/only partially kidding.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
I don't understand how GM and Chrysler part suppliers going out of business would affect Ford? Is he saying that Ford uses GM and Chrysler parts in their vehicles?

Out of the "Big 3", the only one that has a glimmer of hope is Ford. GM and Chrysler are still an absolute disaster and are basically zombies. I fail to see how the bailout did anything other than flush taxpayer's money down the drain to postpone the inevitable.

you know how a ball of yarn is wrapped around the middle section, well picture the manufacturers aka GM TM F Chry H Hyundai etc. as the center section... and then the yarn is the suppliers... witness how if you take the core out, everything attached to it crumples... that is the auto industry.

I got that point, but how does GM and Chrysler suppliers going out of business affect Ford at all, unless Ford is using GM and/or Chrysler parts (which I don't think they are)?

GM and Chrysler go down, their suppliers go down, but that still leaves Ford and their suppliers ready to fill the void.

I really think Ford Jr. is just taking the "politically correct" approach to this given the current administration's tendency to persecute individuals (especially ones with money and power) who aren't "on board".

Because suppliers, like my company, supply parts to ALL automotive manufacturers. We might get 25% business from Chrysler, 25% Ford, 25% GM and 25% all others. But if GM and Chrysler were to fold, we lose 50% of our business and without help, go under also. While we stop production to enter bankruptcy or even liquidate, every car that uses a part that we make stops production.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Thank you for the explanation...that makes sense. However, the parts supplies could trim down their operations. Yes, jobs would be lost, but we are all called upon to sacrifice by our supreme leader!

What's worse...jobs lost as operations trim down, or billions of tax payers dollars down the drain AND jobs lost?

And if my company only makes 10% of the parts for anybody other than GM/Chrysler? That 10% could be spread to EVERY car made in the market, and the 10% left would not be enough left to sustain the business, especially with such an abrupt loss of the other 90%.

There was a time when most automotive manufacturers had at least two suppliers for almost every part made with the intention to keep running should a supply problem happen at one of the suppliers. It doesn't seem to be the case right now as the automotive manufacturers go with whoever is cheaper, period. They also don't pay for the equipment (all of it anyway) like they once did so it's more difficult for them to simply walk in and pull the equipment from your floor.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Because suppliers, like my company, supply parts to ALL automotive manufacturers. We might get 25% business from Chrysler, 25% Ford, 25% GM and 25% all others. But if GM and Chrysler were to fold, we lose 50% of our business and without help, go under also. While we stop production to enter bankruptcy or even liquidate, every car that uses a part that we make stops production.

in other words, the car industry is a giant inbred picnic and if someone forgets to bring the fried chicken the whole thing turns into a jack daniels fueled gun fight

 

[Pulsar]

I'll explain this VERY carefully for those folks that don't get it.

#1 The suppliers are in worse shape than the Big 3. Don't believe it? Delphi is going to be liquidated. Visteon would be totally bankrupt, except Ford agreed to take on the Visteon debt to support them. Many other suppliers have already declared bankruptcy.

#2 There is a ton of inter-relation between components. No, a Ford does not use a GM part. But the same company that makes, say, an alternator for Ford (Delphi) may very well make an alternator for GM. If Delphi goes bankrupt because of GM, Ford gets screwed too. About 1/3 of the suppliers are shared between companies. In some platforms more, in some less.

#3 Mikemike. WTF are you talking about. The ONLY REASON Ford is not bankrupt is because they screwed themselves over EARLIER. Remember all that talk about Ford in trouble 3-5 years ago? They were, in a big way. So they mortgaged the entire company, at a time when cheap loans were still available. Then they made a couple very smart moves, and have managed to stay out of bankruptcy. They are NOT sitting back laughing at anyone!

Ford is VERY nervous about ALL the big 3. As is Toyota, by the way. If you do some research, you'll find that even though our wonderfully FAIR press doesn't report it much, Toyota has been pushing the US government to help the big 3 too - because they use the exact same suppliers we do.

MIKEMIKE, are you just looking to try and bust someone's balls? Because you sure as heck don't have the faintest clue what you're posting about.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Pulsar
I'll explain this VERY carefully for those folks that don't get it.

#1 The suppliers are in worse shape than the Big 3. Don't believe it? Delphi is going to be liquidated. Visteon would be totally bankrupt, except Ford agreed to take on the Visteon debt to support them. Many other suppliers have already declared bankruptcy.

#2 There is a ton of inter-relation between components. No, a Ford does not use a GM part. But the same company that makes, say, an alternator for Ford (Delphi) may very well make an alternator for GM. If Delphi goes bankrupt because of GM, Ford gets screwed too. About 1/3 of the suppliers are shared between companies. In some platforms more, in some less.

#3 Mikemike. WTF are you talking about. The ONLY REASON Ford is not bankrupt is because they screwed themselves over EARLIER. Remember all that talk about Ford in trouble 3-5 years ago? They were, in a big way. So they mortgaged the entire company, at a time when cheap loans were still available. Then they made a couple very smart moves, and have managed to stay out of bankruptcy. They are NOT sitting back laughing at anyone!

Ford is VERY nervous about ALL the big 3. As is Toyota, by the way. If you do some research, you'll find that even though our wonderfully FAIR press doesn't report it much, Toyota has been pushing the US government to help the big 3 too - because they use the exact same suppliers we do.

MIKEMIKE, are you just looking to try and bust someone's balls? Because you sure as heck don't have the faintest clue what you're posting about.

1. Not all suppliers are in worse shape (mine is in bad shape but not worse) because they are more global and are very diversified (i.e. have their hands in many automotive manufacturers).

As for Toyota, yes they do. My company supplies components for the Corolla and the Rav4 as well as productions to another supplier to make items for the Camry.

I can see why companies like Hyunda, Honda and Toyota would be shitting on themselves right now. Those three have many suppliers that supply only a few components to them. Those same suppliers are in piss poor shape though because they supply so much more to the former big 3 (as you mention in your posting).

 

[Pulsar]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Engineer

Because suppliers, like my company, supply parts to ALL automotive manufacturers. We might get 25% business from Chrysler, 25% Ford, 25% GM and 25% all others. But if GM and Chrysler were to fold, we lose 50% of our business and without help, go under also. While we stop production to enter bankruptcy or even liquidate, every car that uses a part that we make stops production.

in other words, the car industry is a giant inbred picnic and if someone forgets to bring the fried chicken the whole thing turns into a jack daniels fueled gun fight

You, sir, have no frickin clue what a global economy is. Go find out how many companies actually BUILD riding lawnmowers and get back to us. Hint: It's less than 4. Go find out how many companies truly BUILD laptops. Hint: It's like 2. Go find out how many companies build LCD displays. Hint: It's like 2 or 3.

It's not just the Car Industry smart ass. It's ALL big business. Go villify someone else for a change.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: eleison

Arrrgh!!!..Arrrgh!!! Obama!!! Arrrgh!!!

:shocked:

 

[PokerGuy]

Ok, help me out here -- lets say GM / Chrysler go under, and suppliers lose big customers. Suppliers might go out of business etc, I get that. But as with any industry, if there is a demand for a good (lets say, an alternator), someone will step in and produce that good. In a competitive market, companies will compete and produce that good. If the company that supplies alternators to Ford and GM goes under, wouldn't some other company step in and produce alternators for Ford?

 

[smashp]

Anybody that Argues against the government bailout of GM and Chrysler and doesnt believe that their collapse would have the greater consequences stated By My Ford jr, have no clue and are intellectually weak and feeble.


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