Bill Maher Blames PC Movement and Failure to Confront Islam

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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,814
6,235
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Maybe. The Right has many issues. What worries me about the Left is that they feel attacked because they disagree with other people. Disagreeing with someone is a type of attack and legitimizes violent responses. So in that case, the subjective view of being the victim allows people to become the attacker. A preemptive strike a la GWB.
I don't think it's because they feel attacked but because they can see that conservatives who live in a bubble are dangerous to humanity. Reason is a tool for survival and unbiased logical thinking is the ticket required for determining a sound course of action. Conservatives are effectively insane and their insanity is sufficient to shoot a cannon thought the bottom of the ship. They are menace and a contagion and we can't use force to stop them, so far at least. We are a society held hostage by a crazy man who has a gun to our head. It's not everybody who can stay calm in that situation. You have to come to grips with the fact there is absolutely no hope. The hull will be breached and probably now already is.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
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Liberals identify with victims because they did not acquire Stockholm Syndrome as children. They did not suppress their hatred of their victimizers in order to avoid pain. They retain their hatred for those who made them victims and project it everywhere there is oppression, real or imagined. They are as sick with hatred as conservatives but they express it differently, actually, more objectively and with less self deception, but they still need to justify being that way. It is a bit more appropriate to hate folk who hurt people than to hate those who are hurt even though the hatred is still sick, wouldn't you say?

Maybe. The Right has many issues. What worries me about the Left is that they feel attacked because they disagree with other people. Disagreeing with someone is a type of attack and legitimizes violent responses. So in that case, the subjective view of being the victim allows people to become the attacker. A preemptive strike a la GWB.

There are people who think, to make change happen, and this is a realm where facts and reality are important.

There are others who hate change, and thinking too much only muddles the goal of keeping things the way they are.

We don't like people who aren't like us because they stand in the way of what we're trying to achieve.

I don't think it's because they feel attacked but because they can see that conservatives who live in a bubble are dangerous to humanity. Reason is a tool for survival and unbiased logical thinking is the ticket required for determining a sound course of action. Conservatives are effectively insane and their insanity is sufficient to shoot a cannon thought the bottom of the ship. They are menace and a contagion and we can't use force to stop them, so far at least. We are a society held hostage by a crazy man who has a gun to our head. It's not everybody who can stay calm in that situation. You have to come to grips with the fact there is absolutely no hope. The hull will be breached and probably now already is.

Why do you deny them their interests? Just because they want the past and resist change doesn't mean they're crazy.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
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I don't think it's because they feel attacked but because they can see that conservatives who live in a bubble are dangerous to humanity. Reason is a tool for survival and unbiased logical thinking is the ticket required for determining a sound course of action. Conservatives are effectively insane and their insanity is sufficient to shoot a cannon thought the bottom of the ship. They are menace and a contagion and we can't use force to stop them, so far at least. We are a society held hostage by a crazy man who has a gun to our head. It's not everybody who can stay calm in that situation. You have to come to grips with the fact there is absolutely no hope. The hull will be breached and probably now already is.

Except, the Left very much does feel attacked. How many people see a Trump win as an attack? Probably not the majority, but a lot do. Just like how the Right saw Obama as an attack on them. The Right bought guns to protect themselves because the Left might come and take the guns. The Left with a Trump win is not protecting, but attacking people. How many people were attacked after Obama won?

So, while there are many on the Right that hate and are bigoted, there is a growing group on the Left who are hateful and bigoted.

Also, you seem to have little hope in your fellow man. People can do amazing things when they work together. They can also do horrific things when split. So ask yourself this, if the Right is trying to split people, do you think the Left are fighting against that? I worry that the Left has a growing group that wants to see just as much destruction as those "insane" people on the Right.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
There are people who think, to make change happen, and this is a realm where facts and reality are important.

There are others who hate change, and thinking too much only muddles the goal of keeping things the way they are.

We don't like people who aren't like us because they stand in the way of what we're trying to achieve.



Why do you deny them their interests? Just because they want the past and resist change doesn't mean they're crazy.

And how do you know what you want to achieve is good. Who decides that what we have is bad? Inequality is wrong and we should not hold onto it. Forcing equal outcomes for people that do unequal amounts of good is wrong. Dismissing terrorism as the way poor people fight is horrific.

I feel we have lost a big part of what made this country the leader in rights.

https://www.pbs.org/benfranklin/pop_finalspeech.html

Amazing humility and a brilliant mind.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
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Except, the Left very much does feel attacked. How many people see a Trump win as an attack? Probably not the majority, but a lot do. Just like how the Right saw Obama as an attack on them. The Right bought guns to protect themselves because the Left might come and take the guns. The Left with a Trump win is not protecting, but attacking people. How many people were attacked after Obama won?

So, while there are many on the Right that hate and are bigoted, there is a growing group on the Left who are hateful and bigoted.

Also, you seem to have little hope in your fellow man. People can do amazing things when they work together. They can also do horrific things when split. So ask yourself this, if the Right is trying to split people, do you think the Left are fighting against that? I worry that the Left has a growing group that wants to see just as much destruction as those "insane" people on the Right.

Both sides are always the same to people always terrible at discerning between things.

And how do you know what you want to achieve is good. Who decides that what we have is bad? Inequality is wrong and we should not hold onto it. Forcing equal outcomes for people that do unequal amounts of good is wrong. Dismissing terrorism as the way poor people fight is horrific.

I feel we have lost a big part of what made this country the leader in rights.

https://www.pbs.org/benfranklin/pop_finalspeech.html

Amazing humility and a brilliant mind.

Not terribly hard to figure liberal-democratic ideals are better than authoritarian-fascist. Also not hard to figure out you don't understand much of what smart people say, and why.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
Both sides are always the same to people always terrible at discerning between things.



Not terribly hard to figure liberal-democratic ideals are better than authoritarian-fascist. Also not hard to figure out you don't understand much of what smart people say, and why.

I agree that liberal democratic ideas are better. What I worry about is that the left is moving toward authoritarian ideas. I am for liberty and equality. The problem is that the Left wants equality of outcome and the only way to do that is by taking away liberty.

People like to dismiss criticism as a false equivalence. Saying that the Left might be doing something the Right does does not mean its a false equivalence if indeed they are doing that thing. The Right likes to limit freedoms because of their view on morality. the left wants to limit freedoms to make up for injustice. The two sides have different reason, but they are doing the same thing.

I have no doubt that you will not agree. You hold very strong convictions, much like the Right does. I would imagine that if someone like you came into power, you would fix the injustices you see around you. Thus becoming that authoritarian you seem to look down on. Both sides want to force the other side to do the right thing.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
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I agree that liberal democratic ideas are better. What I worry about is that the left is moving toward authoritarian ideas. I am for liberty and equality. The problem is that the Left wants equality of outcome and the only way to do that is by taking away liberty.

People like to dismiss criticism as a false equivalence. Saying that the Left might be doing something the Right does does not mean its a false equivalence if indeed they are doing that thing. The Right likes to limit freedoms because of their view on morality. the left wants to limit freedoms to make up for injustice. The two sides have different reason, but they are doing the same thing.

I have no doubt that you will not agree. You hold very strong convictions, much like the Right does. I would imagine that if someone like you came into power, you would fix the injustices you see around you. Thus becoming that authoritarian you seem to look down on. Both sides want to force the other side to do the right thing.

Not a great start to demonstrate you understand smart people ideas by first parroting right wing talking points.

Smart people have seen where this capitalism thing goes, and ever smarter people can see capitalism is an artificial gubmint creation anyway.
 

Smoblikat

Diamond Member
Nov 19, 2011
5,184
107
106
So when you rant about some minority you don't like and eventually suffer some repercussion for it, which party needs a safe space more? Them from you, or you from them?

Neither. If someone is being a dick you should address it then and there, or move on, rather than worrying about whose house is the safest softest place to sit and mope about how some people dont like you. Life is tough, people are horrible to eachother, the world is not fair. Thats basically how it works, you dont get to decide who likes you and who doesnt.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
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Neither. If someone is being a dick you should address it then and there, or move on, rather than worrying about whose house is the safest softest place to sit and mope about how some people dont like you. Life is tough, people are horrible to eachother, the world is not fair. Thats basically how it works, you dont get to decide who likes you and who doesnt.

So how do you propose addressing the alt-right faithful parroting breitbart/bannon? Notice I'm already telling it like it is.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
Not a great start to demonstrate you understand smart people ideas by first parroting right wing talking points.

Smart people have seen where this capitalism thing goes, and ever smarter people can see capitalism is an artificial gubmint creation anyway.

Oh, and where do the other things besides capitalism end up? So far as I can tell, it's the only economic structure that has gotten people out of poverty. So do tell of another system that works as well as capitalism.

Weird to shift to economics.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
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Oh, and where do the other things besides capitalism end up? So far as I can tell, it's the only economic structure that has gotten people out of poverty. So do tell of another system that works as well as capitalism.

Notice the soviets were the other superpower, and the planned economies of asian economic "miracles" are functionally closer to that than free-market.

Weird to shift to economics.

Not weird at all you can't understand the implication of what you're parroting.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
Notice the soviets were the other superpower, and the planned economies of asian economic "miracles" are functionally closer to that than free-market.



Not weird at all you can't understand the implication of what you're parroting.

Ah, so the USSR. Why again did they collapse again? They were not invaded, or suffer a natural disaster. So where did they go again?

As for the Asian markets... what one do you think is doing well that has not moved massively closer to capitalism. Surely not China, Korea, Japan as those all adopted many capitalistic markets. So please tell me one.

USSR, too funny.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
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Ah, so the USSR. Why again did they collapse again? They were not invaded, or suffer a natural disaster. So where did they go again?
Here I thought you were proud of owning up to dumbshit errors.

As for the Asian markets... what one do you think is doing well that has not moved massively closer to capitalism. Surely not China, Korea, Japan as those all adopted many capitalistic markets. So please tell me one.

5 years plans which use the market as a tool aren't what your sort like to consider capitalism, but evidently there's no reason to believe you're capable of learning much about this either.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
Here I thought you were proud of owning up to dumbshit errors.



5 years plans which use the market as a tool aren't what your sort like to consider capitalism, but evidently there's no reason to believe you're capable of learning much about this either.


The USSR collapsed under the costs of running a command economy. So while it did become a superpower, it died trying to keep up with capitalism. The first 5 year plan by Stalin killed what, about 4 million people. Amazing economic progress there buddy. But hey, I know you hate humanity so guess it's consistent.


Between China and the USSR's economic success, there were how many millions of deaths. I guess to a person success is measured in the body count. Sad and sick mind you have there.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
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The USSR collapsed under the costs of running a command economy. So while it did become a superpower, it died trying to keep up with capitalism. The first 5 year plan by Stalin killed what, about 4 million people. Amazing economic progress there buddy. But hey, I know you hate humanity so guess it's consistent.


Between China and the USSR's economic success, there were how many millions of deaths. I guess to a person success is measured in the body count. Sad and sick mind you have there.

Worth mentioning Japan, Korea et al were under similar economic plans resulting in similar successes, but facts about the world elude your conservative instincts.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
Worth mentioning Japan, Korea et al were under similar economic plans resulting in similar successes, but facts about the world elude your conservative instincts.

As already mentioned, the growth of their economies have come from opening up free markets and allowing private ownership. Japan and South Korea saw their biggest growth and living standard increase when they shifted to capitalistic structures. No doubt that many of their parts are socialist, but only a moron would try and argue they are not capitalist countries. Is your implication that because there is central planning, that those states are not capitalist. That would be news to a great many.

What country that has been capitalist has failed?
 

Smoblikat

Diamond Member
Nov 19, 2011
5,184
107
106
So how do you propose addressing the alt-right faithful parroting breitbart/bannon? Notice I'm already telling it like it is.

I generally ignore people that are too stupid to be saved. I recommend you try the same thing, youll find your life got a whole lot less negative.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
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I generally ignore people that are too stupid to be saved. I recommend you try the same thing, youll find your life got a whole lot less negative.

Rather expedient to look the other way as long as they're an actively courted staple of your party.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
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As already mentioned, the growth of their economies have come from opening up free markets and allowing private ownership. Japan and South Korea saw their biggest growth and living standard increase when they shifted to capitalistic structures. No doubt that many of their parts are socialist, but only a moron would try and argue they are not capitalist countries. Is your implication that because there is central planning, that those states are not capitalist. That would be news to a great many.

What country that has been capitalist has failed?

Japan and Korea's boom cycle hardly coincided with any transition to market econ nor does that cause "economic miracles" in any number of countries.

Just because you have zero clue about their history or econ in general, and never will for obvious reasons, doesn't mean you were right all along.
 

Smoblikat

Diamond Member
Nov 19, 2011
5,184
107
106
I'm being quite charitable about your intelligence, don't let me down.

I get what youre saying. But what im saying is, rather than turning "racism, sexism, *ism/*ists" into an us vs them mindset, why not look at each example as a specific unrelated incident. Ive been treated like **** by blacks, mexicans, americans, whites, asains, dogs, insects etc... I still dont generalize an entire group as being *ism/*ists. You can find a-holes everywhere, and I dont think this is a systemic problem. I think its a human problem, and there isnt much you can do about it. You cant fix stupid. But you can recognize it and do your part to not be part of the problem.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
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I get what youre saying. But what im saying is, rather than turning "racism, sexism, *ism/*ists" into an us vs them mindset, why not look at each example as a specific unrelated incident. Ive been treated like **** by blacks, mexicans, americans, whites, asains, dogs, insects etc... I still dont generalize an entire group as being *ism/*ists. You can find a-holes everywhere, and I dont think this is a systemic problem. I think its a human problem, and there isnt much you can do about it. You cant fix stupid. But you can recognize it and do your part to not be part of the problem.

Racism is very much a systemic problem, and it's hardly surprising the people least motivated to understand and admit this are beneficiaries. I mean, the whole election basically came down to rust belt types who don't want to compete fairly against brown people; stratifying those indigenous looking ones into a lower social class is simply their solution to the problem.
 

Smoblikat

Diamond Member
Nov 19, 2011
5,184
107
106
Racism is very much a systemic problem, and it's hardly surprising the people least motivated to understand and admit this are beneficiaries. I mean, the whole election basically came down to rust belt types who don't want to compete fairly against brown people; stratifying those indigenous looking ones into a lower social class is simply their solution to the problem.

Im not sure I agree, the individual vote was ignored this election. According to the people, Clinton should be our president, so there were actually more Americans against Trump than there are for him. Which im assuming you correlate to there being more people opposed to racism than there are for it (assuming you view trump as racist and hillary as not) If youre referring to the electoral college vote, I have nothing to say. I didnt see exactly who voted for who and where they live, but I would assume more midwest bible-thumpy people voted for tump over clinton, yet I have no evidence to suggest they solely did that just because they didnt want to compete with "brown" people.

I dont benefit at all by not understanding racism, I do understand. Maybe I view things differently as I dont play the victim card on a whim. Ive been in schools, stores, houses, public events, gatherings, parties etc.. and not once have I ever seen someone denied anything specifically because of their skin color or sexual preference or whatever protected class you can come up with. Imagine youre me, a white male, and every single other person of a different ethnicity doesnt like me because im white and a male, because they view my ethnicity as oppressive and seem to think I have certain privileges only granted to those with a melanin deficiency. See how that rhetoric can get annoying? I dont view others differently until they give me a reason to, and skin color is not a reason. Id appreciate it if nobody just assumed im a racist/republican/privelatged/mysoginist whatever just because im white.

This is a good discussion, ill continue it when i get home from work.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
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Im not sure I agree, the individual vote was ignored this election. According to the people, Clinton should be our president, so there were actually more Americans against Trump than there are for him. Which im assuming you correlate to there being more people opposed to racism than there are for it (assuming you view trump as racist and hillary as not) If youre referring to the electoral college vote, I have nothing to say. I didnt see exactly who voted for who and where they live, but I would assume more midwest bible-thumpy people voted for tump over clinton, yet I have no evidence to suggest they solely did that just because they didnt want to compete with "brown" people.

As someone who did see the demographics of the victory, let me inform you that he got the W via the rust belt with an unprecedented +14% on non-college whites vs his predecessor. Of course he sacrificed -10 on college whites who didn't take to his rhetoric, but they weren't where it mattered for the EC, ie clinton can get 2mil or 20mil more votes elsewhere, it don't matter.

As to an analysis of why they voted for him, consider the additional fact that his core followers are hardly poor (~70k+ household), meaning they have some of the few good jobs remaining for their level of edu attainment. They also exhibit tremendous racial resentment, even compared to the GOP field. I can link these studies eg ANES 2016 Pilot if necessary. These are simply matters of fact.

Now if we only look at the specifics of said rhetoric which did so well in the belt, it deftly paints illegal (undesirable brownies) on the other side of the country & such who're hardly competing for those good jobs as a threat to their way of life. It doesn't exactly take a genius to figure out that plays precisely to people who overwhelmingly answer in the affirmative to "minorities are getting ahead at the expense of whites".

The best possible argument for your case is that Trump is like the racially insensitive gramps who somehow fluked his way to the white house, but I'd like to give some credit that he knew what he was doing just like with the obama is an african muslim show, and so did a good chunk of his followers. To their credit, the GOP establishment was gradually moving away from exploiting white race resentment, but I guess Trumped showed them the path to victory going forward.

I dont benefit at all by not understanding racism, I do understand. Maybe I view things differently as I dont play the victim card on a whim. Ive been in schools, stores, houses, public events, gatherings, parties etc.. and not once have I ever seen someone denied anything specifically because of their skin color or sexual preference or whatever protected class you can come up with. Imagine youre me, a white male, and every single other person of a different ethnicity doesnt like me because im white and a male, because they view my ethnicity as oppressive and seem to think I have certain privileges only granted to those with a melanin deficiency. See how that rhetoric can get annoying? I dont view others differently until they give me a reason to, and skin color is not a reason. Id appreciate it if nobody just assumed im a racist/republican/privelatged/mysoginist whatever just because im white.

This is a good discussion, ill continue it when i get home from work.

So you're basically feeling how many minorities do as a fact of life, and it sure doesn't feel great. The difference is that for historic reasons known to you, white folks still largely control institutions of power and the very real socioeconomic division by race in this country is the result. Try to fix that via affirmative action toward a level playing field and, well, you've seen the reaction.

When Trump's strategist Bannon says too many asian leads in silicon valley is a threat to "civic society", presumably something he's in the business of fixing, we all know what he's talking about and where the incoming administration is looking to take this.
 
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