Biologists Observe Gorillas Using Tools

[NoSmirk]

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: NoSmirk
I fully expected this thread to be about the radical left using their tool Cindy Sheehan.

Yes, yes, she's certainly been carefully scripted . . . NOT.

Her losing a son in your holy war and then abrubtly refusing to bend down anymore to your boy emperor really gets under your obsequious court enuch's skin, doesn't it?

Keep attacking her, it makes you look all manly and right.

If she would have stuck to the Iraq War as an issue, and not gone into blaming Jews for everything, and all the other 10 million tangents, you would have a point. Her son volunteered to go fight, he supported the actions of our government.. he is a hero. She is a raving lunatic b|tch who has more interest in every issue other than her son's death. Being the mother of a hero who died does not make you a hero yourself.

 

[NoSmirk]

Originally posted by: hurtstotalktoyou
I'm not surprised, actually. Gorillas are rather difficult to study, for a number or reasons, not the least of which is their sheer size, but they have been known to demonstrate capabilities similar to chimps and orangutans. If the U.S. had the guts to bring some order to the Congo, we could possibly see some dramatic (and important) advancements in the field of great ape behavior.

I'm thoroughly amazed, however, at the abilities of these animals to understand complex, abstract thought, not to mention their language abilities. It is widely believed, for example, that all four species of great apes have a definite sense of object permanence. Along with african greys, those five species seem to be the most intelligent non-humans on the planet. How strange that of those five, the greys, which are least like us, demonstrate the most impressive ability of all: we can communicate with them, and they with us, in spoken English!

But I am happy that we are continuing research in this area, albeit with limited progress.

Wait, are you suggesting we go to war in Congo?

 

[hurtstotalktoyou]

Congo is an area in the grip of an intense civil war which may be directly responsible for the deaths of over a million people. The situation is complex, but not hopelessly so. I would never suggest we send US troops, but we could send mediators, educators and other forms of peaceful aid.

 

[NoSmirk]

Originally posted by: hurtstotalktoyou
Congo is an area in the grip of an intense civil war which may be directly responsible for the deaths of over a million people. The situation is complex, but not hopelessly so. I would never suggest we send US troops, but we could send mediators, educators and other forms of peaceful aid.

And if that fails and they are all slaughtered.. do we escalate?

 

[hurtstotalktoyou]

Originally posted by: NoSmirk

And if that fails and they are all slaughtered.. do we escalate?

Why would they be slaughtered?

 

[NoSmirk]

Originally posted by: hurtstotalktoyou

Originally posted by: NoSmirk

And if that fails and they are all slaughtered.. do we escalate?

Why would they be slaughtered?

Congo is an area in the grip of an intense civil war which may be directly responsible for the deaths of over a million people.

You think if they just ask nicely they won't become one of those million dead?

 

[Zebo]

W/o impossable thumbs and about 100 more IQ points they'll always be our bitches.

 

[hurtstotalktoyou]

Originally posted by: NoSmirk

You think if they just ask nicely they won't become one of those million dead?

They wouldn't be involved in fighting, so, no, I don't think they would be killed--just like the scientists there right now are relatively safe.

 

[AAman]

maybe they can teach Dumbya some new tricks- like how to bridge the Iraqi swamp and bring the troops home
course he'd probably use the stick to attack 'em, lol, instead of to help himself

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Todd33

Originally posted by: NoSmirk
I fully expected this thread to be about the radical left using their tool Cindy Sheehan.

I'm not sure who you were before the ban, but leave now and spare us.

So using this news story to bash Sheehan is bad, but using it to bash Christians or Bush is good.

Gotcha.

Continue with the leftist circle jerk.

:roll:

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: mect
Anyway, I'm rather skeptical of this. The supporting on the tree trunk seems valid, as does the use of a tree trunk to cross a muddy patch of ground. I've seen dogs do things just as impressive though. I'll admit that testing the depth of water with a brach is a little more impressive, but note the words "seemed to use it to test the water depth or substrate stability: she grasped the stick firmly and repeatedly prodded the water in front of her with the end of the stick." Also, as pointed out earlier, they use a rather loose term of the word tool in the article. Don't get me wrong, this is still an interesting observation, but I'm not expecting to see it published in Science or Nature.

Well, perhaps this discovery will lead to more observation of additional skills.

 

[Gigantopithecus]

Originally posted by: mect
Anyway, I'm rather skeptical of this. The supporting on the tree trunk seems valid, as does the use of a tree trunk to cross a muddy patch of ground. I've seen dogs do things just as impressive though. I'll admit that testing the depth of water with a brach is a little more impressive, but note the words "seemed to use it to test the water depth or substrate stability: she grasped the stick firmly and repeatedly prodded the water in front of her with the end of the stick." Also, as pointed out earlier, they use a rather loose term of the word tool in the article. Don't get me wrong, this is still an interesting observation, but I'm not expecting to see it published in Science or Nature.

Your skepticism is duly noted, but I'm afraid you read only the yahoo news article and not the actual scientific article. This is very clearly tool use. Both situations are entirely analogous to a human using a walking stick.

What, pray tell, have you seen dogs do that even remotely approaches the use of a tool?

Yes, the term tool is now used loosely in biopsychological/animal behavioral contexts. Would you prefer they had purchased the tools on eBay?

Public Library of Science is a second tier journal like Proceedings of the National Academy of Science, Proceedings of the Royal Society, etc. Just because an article isn't in Science or Nature doesn't mean it's 'less worthy' (I can show you plenty of examples of not-so-impressive articles in Science & Nature).

And my comment about insulting the gorillas would apply to all politicians, since almost all of them are idiots, regardless of party affiliation.

 

[BoberFett]

I swear I've seen films of dogs that have pushed objects to stand on and get at higher objects. I would qualify that as tool use.

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: NoSmirk
She is a raving lunatic b|tch who has more interest in every issue other than her son's death. Being the mother of a hero who died does not make you a hero yourself.

Having to live through the death of one of your children has to be one of the worst experiences a parent could possibly bear. It hits a mother, a father, like some near pornographic sin against the deepest rythmns of life.

Surviving your own children is living hell.

Just look at what you post about this woman, NoSmik. Your blind "warrior" committment to your paper ideology has brought you abysmally low, friend.

Wracked with grief, Cindy Sheehan has dared to say, "The Emperor has no clothes!"

This scares the living sh1t out of you . . . because deep inside your lock-step denial, even you probably know that it's true.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: conjur
Biologists Observe Gorillas Using Tools

Whereas the Bush administration is a bunch of tools using guerillas. :Q

Sorry. I couldn't resist. :laugh:

 

[SMOGZINN]

Originally posted by: hurtstotalktoyou

Originally posted by: NoSmirk

You think if they just ask nicely they won't become one of those million dead?

They wouldn't be involved in fighting, so, no, I don't think they would be killed--just like the scientists there right now are relatively safe.

You realize that is almost precisely what happened in the Vietnam War, right? Our humanitarian aid workers and other non-combatant advisors were targeted, and eventually that drew us into the war.

 

[MonkeyK]

Originally posted by: SMOGZINN

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: MonkeyK
Koko and other gorillas talk

Another gorilla avatar and another good link.


:beer:

Koko is a scam. Most of the tricks that Koko does for the media is nothing more then the product of pavlovian conditioning. They almost never let her tricks be evaluated by scientists, and most of her tricks are not able to be reproduced by credible sources.

If pavlovian conditioning explains Koko's "tricks", you would think that it should be no problem for "credible sources" to reproduce them.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Originally posted by: MonkeyK

Originally posted by: SMOGZINN

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: MonkeyK
Koko and other gorillas talk

Another gorilla avatar and another good link.


:beer:

Koko is a scam. Most of the tricks that Koko does for the media is nothing more then the product of pavlovian conditioning. They almost never let her tricks be evaluated by scientists, and most of her tricks are not able to be reproduced by credible sources.

If pavlovian conditioning explains Koko's "tricks", you would think that it should be no problem for "credible sources" to reproduce them.

Credible sources can reproduce them using pavlovian conditioning, just not the novel learning methods that the institute claims.
Understand that classical conditioning is not always a fast process. It requires a lot of time and effort from the trainer to create the right conditioned responses. Since it is known that such responses could be conditioned not many places are willing to spend the resources to reproduce, by these methods, something that is pretty much already agreed that these methods could produce.

 

[MonkeyK]

Originally posted by: SMOGZINN

Originally posted by: MonkeyK

Originally posted by: SMOGZINN

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: MonkeyK
Koko and other gorillas talk

Another gorilla avatar and another good link.


:beer:

Koko is a scam. Most of the tricks that Koko does for the media is nothing more then the product of pavlovian conditioning. They almost never let her tricks be evaluated by scientists, and most of her tricks are not able to be reproduced by credible sources.

If pavlovian conditioning explains Koko's "tricks", you would think that it should be no problem for "credible sources" to reproduce them.

Credible sources can reproduce them using pavlovian conditioning, just not the novel learning methods that the institute claims.
Understand that classical conditioning is not always a fast process. It requires a lot of time and effort from the trainer to create the right conditioned responses. Since it is known that such responses could be conditioned not many places are willing to spend the resources to reproduce, by these methods, something that is pretty much already agreed that these methods could produce.

I see "can", "could", "not may places are willing". Just link me to someone who has done it. Otherwise, I have to conclude it's just your word against that of The Gorilla Foundation.

 

[PatboyX]

our best bet is to strike a deal with them before our emotionless robot overlords get to them.
without an alliance between ape and man, we will both perish in the mechanized revolution.

 

[vitoprimo]

Gorillas using tools? Hmm, what's particularly newsworthy about that?

Now if biologists observed Democrats using tools that would simply be astonishing. As opposed to Democrats being tools, that is.