Bioware talks about Mass Effect spinoffs: Garrus, Illusive Man or Javik

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darkewaffle

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2005
8,152
1
81
I would enjoy a Javik/prothean story, but I think something about 'knowing the ending' (lets face it, the Protheans lose and the Reapers win pretty much sums it up) wouldn't really fly. I think it'd just be asking for trouble lol.

While we know roughly what happened in the First Contact War and the Morning War, I think because those outcomes are less absolute you would have a lot more flexibility. Plus since the participants are still the extant races I think players connect to them more.

It might not have the makings of a full game, but the story of the old shadow broker vs the yahg insurgent could be cool. Though if you're the old broker you lose and I don't think the yahg would make much of a hero.
 

ramj70

Senior member
Aug 24, 2004
764
1
81
I would enjoy a Javik/prothean story, but I think something about 'knowing the ending' (lets face it, the Protheans lose and the Reapers win pretty much sums it up) wouldn't really fly. I think it'd just be asking for trouble lol.

While we know roughly what happened in the First Contact War and the Morning War, I think because those outcomes are less absolute you would have a lot more flexibility. Plus since the participants are still the extant races I think players connect to them more.

It might not have the makings of a full game, but the story of the old shadow broker vs the yahg insurgent could be cool. Though if you're the old broker you lose and I don't think the yahg would make much of a hero.

But just because we know the ending doesn't mean the game cannot be well done or popular. We know how WWII turned out but the games can still be popular, Call of Duty, Medal of Honor, Company of Heroes.

There is a lot that can be done with Javik after the end of ME3.
 

slpnshot

Senior member
Dec 1, 2011
305
2
81
But just because we know the ending doesn't mean the game cannot be well done or popular. We know how WWII turned out but the games can still be popular, Call of Duty, Medal of Honor, Company of Heroes.

There is a lot that can be done with Javik after the end of ME3.

The problem I would have with a Javik central story is that he wasn't even an plot essential character in ME3. Sure he expanded the lore richly, a lot of his dialogue with Liara and everyone was great, but he was still a DLC character. A lot of people could have played ME without even realizing he existed.

They would have to do something amazing to get me interested in a story with him as the MC.
 

Necc

Senior member
Feb 15, 2011
232
0
0
Iwould laugh my ass out if the next mass effect is about javik and his war with the reapers, vigil and the rest of protheans figuring out that magical device (crucible) that would destroy the reapers
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
3
0
Iwould laugh my ass out if the next mass effect is about javik and his war with the reapers, vigil and the rest of protheans figuring out that magical device (crucible) that would destroy the reapers

I'd love to see how they discover/justify the origins of Star-Kid.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
3
0
Hey wait, the next ME we can play as the star-brat through the millions of years. Yeah yeah that's the ticket :biggrin:

Maybe we'll be able to fuck with the timeline and get those 16 endings we were actually promised.

Would be quite satisfying having Harbinger destroy the citadel and "assume direct control" of the reapers.
 

darkewaffle

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2005
8,152
1
81
Iwould laugh my ass out if the next mass effect is about javik and his war with the reapers, vigil and the rest of protheans figuring out that magical device (crucible) that would destroy the reapers

The story of the crucible itself could be interesting, kind of like the book Sarum.

They could almost do it like Actraiser or Dark Cloud, part action part sim/puzzle. You could play through generations of reaper cycles, each one contributing parts to the crucible itself. It would be hard to develop unique races/environments for each cycle though; unless they maybe compress it to, say, a handful of generations. Maybe the Crucible's inception, one or two 'middle' stages, and end on Prothean/Human. Or even have the generations generated at random.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
3
0
"He" is the AI that directs the reapers. Even without any DLC that much is evident

Yeah, but what's his story? Who created him? Why? Why is he fucked in the head?

Come on, I thought Bioware had a fetish for shoe-horning unneeded explanations in at the last minute.
 

JoetheLion

Senior member
Nov 8, 2012
392
2
81
The biggest problem with BioWare of last years is, that they are really greedy on real lore. By real I mean that it is not in a form of codex, but actually a synergic part of the actual game. Instead of that, each of their games is more and more filled with repetitive action.
 

PhatoseAlpha

Platinum Member
Apr 10, 2005
2,131
21
81
Yeah, but what's his story? Who created him? Why? Why is he fucked in the head?

Come on, I thought Bioware had a fetish for shoe-horning unneeded explanations in at the last minute.

You're being sarcastic here, right? Cause they already did that one.
 

ArenCordial

Senior member
Sep 18, 2012
214
15
81
You're being sarcastic here, right? Cause they already did that one.

If you were as disguisted as IrishScott seems to be, would you have gone back and spent money for the Leviathan DLC? Probably not. Quite frankly releasing the foreshadowing of the Catalyst after the fact as DLC makes it seem more like a retcon than original intent.

Now I've got a list of dislikes with Star-Child but not that he's the master of the Reapers. I'm totally fine with that. Its the fact I'm supposed to accept that this AI

-Can control all the Reapers throughout the galaxy.

-Can overthrow its organic masters and nearly annihlate them

-Can somehow rewrite genetic and synthetic code for all living/synthetic being in the galaxy with some help.

but it can't observe the lesser races and open the portal to Deep Space to the Reapers on the very space station is resides? You know the whole plot of ME1 with Sovereign.

Guess space magic has its limits.
 
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Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
8
0
Since when? I stopped playing after the extended cut. They address it in Leviathan or something?

No. You are correct IrishScott, StarChild was created as a last minute character to wrap up the game. Specifically, he's a Deus es Machinma.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus_ex_machina

a plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem is suddenly and abruptly resolved, with the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event, character, ability, or object. Depending on how it's done, it can be intended to move the story forward when the writer has "painted himself into a corner" and sees no other way out, to surprise the audience, to bring a happy ending into the tale, or as a comedic device.
 

ramj70

Senior member
Aug 24, 2004
764
1
81
Maybe we'll be able to fuck with the timeline and get those 16 endings we were actually promised.

Would be quite satisfying having Harbinger destroy the citadel and "assume direct control" of the reapers.

But we can't change the ending because of the artistic integrity
 

PhatoseAlpha

Platinum Member
Apr 10, 2005
2,131
21
81
Since when? I stopped playing after the extended cut. They address it in Leviathan or something?

Ah, OK. Yes, they address it in Leviathan. It's not an especially satisfying explanation, so it was hard to tell if you were making a sarcastic jab at their explanation, or hadn't actually seen it. And as ArenCordial points out, it raises some questions about why the Starkid doesn't do anything until the very end of ME3.
 

darkewaffle

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2005
8,152
1
81
-Can control all the Reapers throughout the galaxy.

-Can overthrow its organic masters and nearly annihlate them

-Can somehow rewrite genetic and synthetic code for all living/synthetic being in the galaxy with some help.

but it can't observe the lesser races and open the portal to Deep Space to the Reapers on the very space station is resides? You know the whole plot of ME1 with Sovereign.

Guess space magic has its limits.

I am curious about how the Catalyst managed to usurp the Leviathans, though on the other hand the overall operating timeline for it is extremely long; as unlikely as it may seem that it could do so, it had a ton of time to work as well.

The whole DNA rewrite thing I guess it depends on what you think the limits of technology ultimately are. I mean the current cycle's technology is still absolutely primitive relative to the capabilities of Reapers/Leviathans, but even so Cerberus was able to accurately reconstruct and 'reactivate' Shepherd so it's clearly a universe where DNA/cell replication and manipulation 'works'. Plus the AI clearly learns as it progresses, so who knows what it could be capable of starting with Leviathan tech and having eons worth of knowledge added to that.

It certainly isn't omnipotent however. As an AI it's still physically restricted by it's hardware, it can't just walk outside and look around; it has no physical form, the 'child' is presumably just a projection. It's unknown if the Citadel was actually constructed by the Leviathans or the Catalyst/Reapers, but having those kinds of physical shackles might give credence to the idea that the Leviathans built it with those specific restrictions in mind to try to help keep the Catalyst in check. It's my understanding/interpretation that the Reapers are the eyes/ears/hands of the Catalyst.

One thing that I've also always been curious about is the Reaper's sentience. Whether or not each reaper is actually a distinct intelligence or just a 'reduced' copy of the Catalyst. Or maybe even just drones that the Catalyst can control absolutely and he simply portrays them as individuals.

No. You are correct IrishScott, StarChild was created as a last minute character to wrap up the game. Specifically, he's a Deus es Machinma.

Depends on your interpretation, but to me, I think it's logical that an AI directs the reapers. The citadel is still such an enigma that nobody could know it exists explicitly, so there's good reason it's concealed until the end, because it fits. It's simply unattainable knowledge until you encounter the Leviathans or reach the Citadel's interior. But at the same time, given how the reapers all act in unison and they act so methodically and the simple fact that they are machines were all clues that there might be something behind the scenes directing them.

It's no more of a deus ex machina than Saren's body fortunately shattering Sovereign's shields in ME1 imo. There's really no good reason for that to happen, there's no plan for it to happen, but yet it's absolutely necessary for our survival and pretty much saves our asses from out of nowhere. But sometimes you just get lucky, and if you think about it a lot of the great, big, bombastic stories that we enjoy require no small amount of luck. I think part of enjoying them is just rolling with the punches and not thinking about it too much at times
 
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BlitzPuppet

Platinum Member
Feb 4, 2012
2,460
7
81
Javik was terrible IMO...it may be because I couldn't stand the accent of the voice actor though. Either way he seemed weak.

Garrus was much better. Illusive man would make sense if you played during his younger days...
 

GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
7,069
7,492
136
Next game should ditch the whole military thing and have the character playing as a privateer in the aftermath of ME3. Think a game inspired by the untold stored of Han Solo or Boba Fett.
 

ThinClient

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2013
3,980
4
0
Next game should ditch the whole military thing and have the character playing as a privateer in the aftermath of ME3. Think a game inspired by the untold stored of Han Solo or Boba Fett.

The books of extended universe stories of the Fetts were really disappointing. It seems like they were written by someone quite inexperienced.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
There is potential in the Illusive Man story but I think ME is generally done at this point.
 
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