Black male graduation rates

[Hacp]

Who the hell cares about IQ? High School isn't rocket science. You can have an IQ of 85 and still probably pass High School. With black culture being about drugs and sex and sports, it doesn't surprise me that they can't advance past a decent graduation rate. If you want teachers to start parenting kids, start by giving them a broom and give them free reign to lay a smackdown on anyone who disobeys.

 

[HendrixFan]

Nutrition? Come on.

It has to do with the family structure, and the culture. All you have to do is look at the out-of-wedlock birthrates for AAs. When you only have one parent or are living with grandma, the odds of you turning out a productive member if society are low.

Those same scenarios that you describe are almost always aligned with poor nutrition.

Intelligence is not a genetic trait, parents of higher IQs do NOT have children with IQs any higher on the bell curve than parents of lower IQs. In fact, because IQs form a bell curve, parents with high IQs are more likely to have children that do not have IQs as high as them. If you and your spouse are extremely intelligent, you are much more likely to be disappointed that your children do not have the same intellectual aptitude.

 

[Hacp]

Those same scenarios that you describe are almost always aligned with poor nutrition.

Intelligence is not a genetic trait, parents of higher IQs do NOT have children with IQs any higher on the bell curve than parents of lower IQs. In fact, because IQs form a bell curve, parents with high IQs are more likely to have children that do not have IQs as high as them. If you and your spouse are extremely intelligent, you are much more likely to be disappointed that your children do not have the same intellectual aptitude.

Starve a kid out for 2 days. Then give him a math workbook(with explanations and example problems). Tell him if he doesn't complete the workbook with 70% of the answers right, he won't get any bread tonight. Keep doing that every day. You'll get excellent results. With poor nutrition.

 

[HendrixFan]

But at the same time Black people dominate sports entirely, if we are suppose to be equal in absolutely every way [intelligence included] then the the NBA have more White and Asian people on it. Right now Its 80 percent+ black, way out of proportion to the number of black people in the country. And its not just the NBA, but the NFL aswell and even Golf. In Athletics Black people are superior if you go by averages, so why should intelligence be different since it is supposedly a inheritable attribute just as Athletic ability is.

Intelligence doesn't seem to be genetic though. I was surprised to learn that as it seemed counter intuitive but it is true.

Physical attributes (height, weight, build, etc) are certainly genetic, and hundreds of years worth of breeding slaves seems to have made many blacks physically superior to other races. You don't see many 6'4" 240lb black guys who can run like the wind from other countries. Black domination of sports is an American thing, and is the result of slavery. The athletes we "import" from other countries are rarely black. The rosters of sports teams across the globe aren't 80% black.

 

[peonyu]

I certainly think some elements in the AA community shares blame. I do think the society at large does push AA kids to focus on sports more than anything, even though if they took academics more seriously, a lot more of them would benefit from things like affirmative action (which I don't agree with but that's for another discussion).

With that said, what is our society pushing the next generation towards? Looking at shows like the Kardashians make me want to puke- why would people want to live like those retards and how many teenage girls want to be like them?

Good post. I think the vast majority of the blame is on the black community though, and blaming white people for continued failures [when they happen] is just a way of not changing...Which is basically saying "I dont have the problem you do", when white people are blamed.

But Obama did get elected, so who knows. Maybe some black kids will try and emulate him instead of a dead beat gangster or druggy sports player.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Wrong, it's Asians that tend to have the highest IQ's. Not that these IQ tests really mean much.

I'm pretty sure that the Ashkenazis, as a group, have the highest. Asians, as a large racial group, trump the other racial groups.

All crap sources. Why don't you just reference some Aryan Resistance website while you're at it? A proper source with the breakdown of scholastic success in the US: http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2010/2010015/

Did you see all the disclaimers that I included in my post? "I don't vouch for any of this material nor am I saying that I think it's correct."

There's a reason why I included the disclaimers. People are free to read the articles which reference various studies and decide for themselves. I don't know if the cited studies are good or bad, but I do know that there are people with an agenda who want to silence all discussion about the subject regardless of whatever the science reveals. Reality is reality even if we don't like it, and that reality might just be as those articles suggest, as much as we might dislike it. If so, then we need to consider how it should affect public policy, if at all. (For example, maybe our current education system is very flawed and is doing a horrible job of improving people's prospects for a better life; maybe not everyone fits into the same sized box.)

 

[HendrixFan]

Starve a kid out for 2 days. Then give him a math workbook(with explanations and example problems). Tell him if he doesn't complete the workbook with 70% of the answers right, he won't get any bread tonight. Keep doing that every day. You'll get excellent results. With poor nutrition.

Nutrition was mentioned for brain development, especially at younger ages. We can't test your "theory", but I doubt you can find any type of scientific backing for your statement. I hope you were being sarcastic.

 

[Zorkorist]

Get the Government to stop giving them dollars for doing nothing, and watch them grow and succeed.

-John

 

[HendrixFan]

Get the Government to stop giving them dollars for doing nothing, and watch them grow and succeed.

-John

That happened during the 90s as welfare rolls were the lowest in 30 years by the end of Clinton's second term. People receiving welfare benefits dropped by over 50% during his two terms. Median household income for blacks went up about 25% during that short period from around $28k to around $35k.

But then a recession and regressive changes to the tax code steered money up towards the wealthy, leaving middle to lower incomes to regress.

 

[Zorkorist]

Clinton had(has) the proverbial steel balls, and I remember that time.

Today's news story is how unemployment is extended yet again.

While it takes others doing well, to employ folks off unemployment, it's really not that hard, and the bigger thing is someone with steel balls like Clinton, standing up and saying go to work! (or trade/school, etc.)

-John

 

[Craig234]

The right-left difference I see on the serious problem of low graduation rates especially among African-American voters is:

It's much more common for the liberals to view this as 'people in our society have this problem of low graduation rates, that's bad for them and the country.

What can be done? Let's investigate the causes, and look for things to help, whether it's parental training, school funding, teacher accountability, whatever - including more difficult to solve issues like the family, cultural issues, the type of poverty involved, whatever it is.'

But they view it as 'our' people and have a constructive approach.

The people on the right are more likely to make it a 'those people' problem. They don't want anything to do with it, except to criticize, and to say 'those people are genetically worse', 'those people do it to themselves with a bad culture', 'those people have no excuse, look at the other poor races', 'those people are irresponsible at having stable familes', and so on.

The difference, you notice, is nothing followed by 'and I'm concerned at what we can do to improve it'. It's just 'those people should' statements.

Note, this isn't saying 'those people' don't need to fix it. It's rather the sense of society and 'our people' of the left versus the lack of a sense of society on the right.

And even this is going to be contentious - say a program raised graduation rates 10%. The left might call that 'one good program, we need more', while the right might call it 'a failure program, 90% weren't helped by it'. Things that 'help some' are a glass half full, glass half empty type thing.

Hence, you hear the left say LBJ's Great Society cutting people in poverty by a third a great bit of progress, while the right never cites any good from it I've seen.

The left will tend to acknowledge problems in the program, while the right tends to be black and white about it, just criticizing.

Now, that's just one part of this. And it's not the case that most of the right don't want the blacks to do better - they do. They'd cheer if the rate went up.

The right tends to seem ideological though in their approach. Not, 'what works', but 'the government shouldn't do this and shouldn't do that' by some unwritten law.

The left, to be fair, has the flaw that it tends to be too easily doing SOMETHING, that can lead to entrenched bureaucracy that might not be terribly effective.

Liberals may have the right goals, but we all know some liberal areas that can get caught up in making a big organization, sometimes ignoring how it's doing.

I think it's too bad that our righties don't make other groups in society's issues their issues more.

Racism went on for a century in this country while the majority didn't mind because it was those people's problem. Which is why JFK's speech on black issues and segregation talked a lot about 'would you be happy if you were in their shoes' statistics, and making it an 'American' problem. Instead of the right's tendency not to pay attention to it and do nothing - and that was JFK's approach when he entered the White House as well - it was something we'd all now agree is a national problem, our problem if it was happening.

The fact is, this is a very large and complicated issue. It got here as consequences over a long time, and it's really not going to get 'fixed' a lot any time soon, though it can be improved.

What will happen is that it will get used for politics on both sides - either to run against the right for not doing enough, or for running against the left for wanting to do too much.

 

[OCGuy]

As long as they continue to blame others "the white man" for their failures, they will continue to be behind.

 

[Craig234]

As long as they continue to blame others "the white man" for their failures, they will continue to be behind.

I'm surprised how often people post right after me and prove the point in my post.

 

[Infohawk]

I'm surprised how often people post right after me and prove the point in my post.

Errr... you just ranted. Do you have any concrete proposals for raising black graduation rates? Any ideas that haven't already been tried in the past 50 years?

 

[PrinceofWands]

Those same scenarios that you describe are almost always aligned with poor nutrition.

Intelligence is not a genetic trait, parents of higher IQs do NOT have children with IQs any higher on the bell curve than parents of lower IQs. In fact, because IQs form a bell curve, parents with high IQs are more likely to have children that do not have IQs as high as them. If you and your spouse are extremely intelligent, you are much more likely to be disappointed that your children do not have the same intellectual aptitude.

The majority of available research for a hundred years from people who spend their lives on the subject disagrees with you. In fact, your post is so ignorant I actually lost 15IQ points just from reading it. Seriously, go buy a book.

 

[Craig234]

I'll add one more general note on this topic, a reminder how propaganda functions.

Propaganda makes a point that SOUNDS believable, and often has a nugget of truth at the center.

This is a reason why it's so hard to get people to recognize when they fall for it.

Any of these 'theories' on the cause might sound good, and might have some nugget of truth to them, but not many here have the expertise to tell propaganda from solid theory. It's easy to want something that 'answers the cause', but often a mistake to buy into a simple answer.

Remember H. L Mencken: "There is always a well-known solution to every human problem--neat, plausible, and wrong."

And JFK - 'The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. '

IMO, that's one of JFK's very best quotes. This forum shows it every day.

 

[PrinceofWands]

I agree mostly with BoberFett. The thread is about high school graduation, and that has next to nothing to do with intelligence. It has EVERYTHING to do with culture (though that is itself impacted by SES, inter-cultural reactions, law, bias, etc).

That being said, many of the rest of you make accurate points, but are too narrowly focused. Having spent much of my life in gifted programs and in the academic study of high intelligence I would agree that:

1. Intelligence IS somewhat genetically inherited. There is next to no data to the contrary except for some studies discounted due to methodology. The only real arguments among cognitive psychologists is how much of a role genetics plays, not if.

2. Environment (in various forms) DOES play a factor.
a. Nutrition, especially during formative years, DOES impact cognitive and psychological development.
b. Culture definitely impacts education/learning, which leads to underdeveloped intelligence.
c. SES (ie poverty) IS correlated, even when culture, nutrition, and genetics are controlled for.

3. Intelligence tests (especially the Wechsler) test specific definitions of intelligence (called 'g'). They are biased towards euro-centric learning/foci. However, there are many other tests and definitions being researched (Gardner, Sternberg, etc) which generally uphold the concept of IQ, just with modification/expansion.

 

[Balt]

It's really clear to me that the most significant factor aside from culture is NUTRITION. Blacks are much less well nourished than other races in this country, and nutrition is extremely important when the brain is developing in the womb and during childhood.

I would never suggest that nutrition is unimportant, but it's only one part of the bad parenting problem. By the time kids can attend public school, they are getting a better and more balanced/nutritional breakfast and lunch than I or my friends ever did growing up. We went to a small private school that didn't have a cafeteria, so having a turkey sandwich, a bag of chips, and a juice box was about as good as things got.

As for nutrition before school age, that's on the parents. If they can't or won't even provide for their children in the womb and for the first few years of their life, why are they having children? I would not want or look forward to a day when the state is made responsible for every single fetus/person from the moment of conception to the day they die.

In other words: Parents, parents, parents. Even if the parents themselves are uneducated, I think they know that a plate of spaghetti is healthier than a McDonald's cheeseburger.

 

[Infohawk]

I'll add one more general note on this topic, a reminder how propaganda functions.

Propaganda makes a point that SOUNDS believable, and often has a nugget of truth at the center.

This is a reason why it's so hard to get people to recognize when they fall for it.

Any of these 'theories' on the cause might sound good, and might have some nugget of truth to them, but not many here have the expertise to tell propaganda from solid theory. It's easy to want something that 'answers the cause', but often a mistake to buy into a simple answer.

Remember H. L Mencken: "There is always a well-known solution to every human problem--neat, plausible, and wrong."

And JFK - 'The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. '

IMO, that's one of JFK's very best quotes. This forum shows it every day.

This is why nobody takes you seriously. You follow one rant with more ranting and fail to respond to a simple question asking you to state concrete suggestions of how to rectify the problem.

 

[BladeVenom]

Lets forget about the cause. Lets name the solution, birth control. If only 25 percent are graduating high school, then 75 percent should be on birth control.

 

[StageLeft]

There are various problems, their culture clearly one such problem. It insufficiently rewards academic success and some of the stereotypes like no father in the home are rooted very firmly in fact.

Also genetic intelligence, I know it's PC to assume all races are intellectually equal but I'm not at all convinced the data actually says that. There are plenty of studies that have found meaningful differences. Surely some are flawed, but are all, I really don't know, but it is premature to throw out many findings of a difference simply because some one or others may not find one; they can't both be correct. In any case, considering it is a political non-starter, so if there is an intellectual difference the root cause will never be fully addressed in a fair way because it would be ignoring a key consideration.

Intelligence variances or not, though, it's fair to say that Blacks are on average operating at below potential and that goes back to their culture and, to a lesser extent these days, racial prejudices working against them (e.g. not hired because of being Black but otherwise properly qualified).

Although even a relative retard can graduate high school, some posts above are a cop-out and say IQ one way or the other is irrelevant, which is ridiculous. Whether presented with hard or easy academics a higher IQ should in theory make them easier to complete, whether that's grade 3 or a phd program.

BTW, actual ideas? I don't much have any. I think inherently their culture is the prime source of problems here and it disproportionately rewards a failing approach to school and life. Actually I do have a couple but they won't be digested by society in general. One being that for all kids regardless of race if you are a problem child in school you get to spend some time at a boot-camp style place, see if that changes you around. Because the way I see it is why wait until the kid is jacking cars or stabbing people for crack money, might as well get a start institutionalizing them early when they still have a chance to correct their behavior. And make sure they know that for every Black athlete there are a thousand who aren't that person, and many of that thousand are poor and live like chumps, so study your sh*t in school.

 

[5150Joker]

I'm pretty sure that the Ashkenazis, as a group, have the highest. Asians, as a large racial group, trump the other racial groups.

And you would be sorely mistaken. Ashkenazi's median IQ is quite a bit below the median Asian IQ. Go find some credible sources and you'll see this. But like I said, these IQ tests are largely meaningless. In my graduating medical school class, Jews weren't even near the top of the class, it was dominated by South Asians--so much for IQ indicators.

 

[StageLeft]

And you would be sorely mistaken. Ashkenazi's median IQ is quite a bit below the median Asian IQ. Go find some credible sources and you'll see this. But like I said, these IQ tests are largely meaningless. In my graduating medical school class, Jews weren't even near the top of the class, it was dominated by South Asians--so much for IQ indicators.

Or so much for statistics done right; you cannot use your single medical class as a meaningful indicator of racial intelligence as a whole. Heck, for all we know you went to school in South Korea, right?

 

[WhipperSnapper]

There are various problems, their culture clearly one such problem. It insufficiently rewards academic success and some of the stereotypes like no father in the home are rooted very firmly in fact.

As I was thinking about whether or nor your intelligence might have an effect on your decision to finish high school, a thought occurred to me. Is it possible that IQ might be related to culture in some sort of a way?

 

[WhipperSnapper]

And you would be sorely mistaken. Ashkenazi's median IQ is quite a bit below the median Asian IQ. Go find some credible sources and you'll see this. But like I said, these IQ tests are largely meaningless. In my graduating medical school class, Jews weren't even near the top of the class, it was dominated by South Asians--so much for IQ indicators.

OK, maybe you're right about that. I don't claim to be an expert. I've read that the average Southeastern Asian IQ was about 105 with the Ashkenazi IQ averaging around 110, but I haven't conducted a formal study.