Black male graduation rates

[Fenixgoon]

Base the payment on a standardized test administered and proctored by the state. The teacher just serves as a coach and mentor that prepares them for the test.

then you teach to a test, instead of teaching kids to learn. we have enough of that already.

though i do see your point - and some schools actually do employ strategies to reward students who perform well.

the problem simply is it's costly, and once you hand that money out, there's no way of telling where it goes. you might piss it down a drain, or you might help a kid struggling to get into college, trade school, etc. but yes, it could definitely be an incentive.

 

[Throckmorton]

and really who's fault is that? can't hold someone's hand through every step of the process...

I didn't say whose fault it was

 

[classy]

A fact that Asians get more prefer treatment than blacks/hispanics? Links/sources of said facts or just something you pulled out of your butt, again as usual. Like the myth of Asian immigrants did not have to pay taxes? (and it was busted by your truly in another thread).

Ever wonder of "how" Asians end up in good areas/burbs? Knock up "bitches and hoes" or "get it real" via crimes and end up in prisons are not the way to go for sure.

Got shot on the way home. Ever wonder who were the perpetrators that shot other blacks? Take a wild guess. Or better yet, look at the NBC Dateline special last Sunday about the gang/shooting problems in Chicago and you will see. Link = http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38579962/ns/dateline_nbc-america_now/

I am surprised that you didn't blame Bush/Republicans/whitties/racists/fill in the blank/etc. (again) in your last post.



Our family came here and were placed in a working class area. We worked hard to move to a nice area. Show me some links/sources of your "fact" that Asians were given prefer treatment in housing over blacks and hispanics.

I started my businesses with savings and business loans from a bank. Went to the same process of loan application as anyone (good credit, good job, money in the bank, etc.). Nothing was given to us free. Again, give me the links/sources of "them Asians can quality for business loans that a black or hispanic person can only dream of". Put up or shut up.

This is just one example. The stimulus business loans
http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=d40e83db3ee2eb66d27effb8a50ac34f

On June 15, the SBA, using money from the $787 billion American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, launched the ARC program, America's Recovery Capital, giving banks and credit unions 100 percent guarantees so they're taking no risk when they make loans of up to $35,000 to previously successful, currently struggling small businesses to help them ride out the recession.

Under the program, the borrower pays no interest and makes no payments for 12 months, then has five years to repay the loan. SBA charges no fees and pays interest to the lender at prime - the rate of interest at which banks lend to favored customers - plus 2 percent.

The Obama Administration does not report the racial breakdown of who's benefiting from these loans at Recovery.gov, but data obtained by NAM from the SBA found that of the 4,497 ARC loans where the race of the borrower was reported, 4,104 (over 91 percent) went to white-owned firms, 140, (3 percent) went to Hispanic-owned businesses, and 151 (3 percent) went to Asian- or Pacific Islander-owned businesses. Only 65, (1.5 percent) went to black-owned firms.

Overall, white-owned businesses received over $130 million in loans through the program, while Hispanic-owned businesses got $4 million and black-owned businesses less than $2 million.

In five states - Alabama, Arkansas, New Hampshire, South Dakota, and Wyoming -- every single firm that received an ARC loan was white-owned. In eight other states, including Louisiana and Nevada, all but one loan went to a white-owned firm.

Blacks own same number of businesses but got less money and hispanics owned more businesses and got equal money in comparison to asian owned businesses.

 

[pcgeek11]

AS someone else where posted Bill Cosby said it all. Listen to the shit talk in the "hood". I don't think they are even speaking the same language. Wearing their pants down below their ass. WTF is all that about. Young girls with 5 or 6 babies and each has a different " baby daddy " or they have no idea who the baby daddy is. Maury Povich is making a fortune off these stupid bastards.

It isn't IQ or Genetics, or culture ( if you want to call it culture ). It boils down to they do not give a shit about anybody or anything. You can't help someone that doesn't want to help themselves.

 

[theevilsharpie]

then you teach to a test, instead of teaching kids to learn. we have enough of that already.

I fail to see a problem with teaching to a test. Every academic or professional training course I've ever attended has had some sort of examination that determines if the student has mastered the objectives of the course. If you have an alternate means of objectively determining aptitude in a given subject, do share.

the problem simply is it's costly...

Perhaps, but then again, so is subsidizing the living expenses of a permanent welfare class. If payment for academic performance incentivizes students that otherwise would've dropped out to complete school and become a productive member of society, the increased costs of schooling could very easily be offset by the decreased cost of welfare and law enforcement.

and once you hand that money out, there's no way of telling where it goes. you might piss it down a drain, or you might help a kid struggling to get into college, trade school, etc.

The purpose of payment for performance is to minimize disruptions within a school environment by motivating students to willingly participate. To that end, what the student spends their payment on is irrelevant.

There is, of course, the possibility that students will put the money to undesirable uses like maintaining a drug habit. However, if the student engages in activities that impair his or her academic success, the payments will decrease or stop entirely, providing a disincentive for such behavior. In addition, if the student does fall behind in their academic performance such that their payment is cut, it will provide an immediate and clear consequence for poor performance, something that is presently lacking in the US's public school system.

 

[Infohawk]

It isn't IQ or Genetics, or culture ( if you want to call it culture ). It boils down to they do not give a shit about anybody or anything. You can't help someone that doesn't want to help themselves.

Yep it's kind of sad this discussion has degenerated into a discussion of IQ. Even IF there were a racial IQ difference, it wouldn't account for the abysmal academic performance of blacks. Especially in American high school, half the battle is just putting any amount of effort in.

 

[Soccerman06]

8% of blacks in MN are passing reading. You wanna know why? Because fkin Somalis couldn't give a rats ass about reading or English for that matter, and they make up 90% of the black population here. If you want to raise scores, either boot the lazy assess out of the country or give them an incentive (degrees aren't enough), schools are basically daycare for them.

 

[HendrixFan]

Other immigrants suffered equally shitty fates.

See chinese immigrants and their work on the railroads + discrimination in SF
See japanese immigrants during/after WW2
See vietnamese immigrants after the vietnam war

Those took place for much shorter periods of time (centuries less) and weren't as extreme as outright slavery. Slavery existed here before the country even began, and poor treatment of vietnamese immigrants for a decade isn't even the same ballpark.

Yes, other forms of discrimination have occurred. Comparing decades of discrimination to nearly four centuries of slavery is just silly. Then following up slavery with 100 years of separate but equal nonsense was the icing on the completely different cake.

"It is similar to rescuing an abused child from a bad home then putting him out to play with the other kids, then wondering why he doesn't seem to fit in"

It's been a few generations now, so you'd have to wonder why the kid's kid's kid's kid's kid still doesn't fit in 7 generations later.

I already stated that the people in position of power right now grew up in an era where blacks weren't allowed in the same schools or even to drink the same water. My mother is in her 50s and remembers going to school before integration. It isn't as far gone as you think or pretend it to be.

 

[HendrixFan]

That argument would make more sense if negative trends like the rise in the illegitimacy rate and the decline in the graduation rate were not recent in origin.

I'm not so sure graduation rates are down with blacks since the end of slavery or the beginning of integration, but I doubt we can really know those numbers. Even the current numbers we have at hand have questionable validity:

A number of recent studies have questioned the validity of the status completion rate and other graduation rate estimators. They have attempted to develop more accurate estimators of high school graduation rates. Heated debates about the levels and trends in the true high school graduation rate have appeared in the popular press. Depending on the data sources, definitions, and methods used, the U.S. graduation rate has been estimated to be anywhere from 66 to 88 percent in recent years-an astonishingly wide range for such a basic statistic. The range of estimated minority rates is even greater-from 50 to 85 percent.

The illegitimacy rate is certainly on the rise and likely a huge factor in lower IQ scores (unstable household, lower income, poor nutrition, etc). Black illegitimacy rate was 19% in 1940, 22% in 1960 and 70% by 2000. Seems to coincide with integration like I suggested. It is worth noting that illegitimacy rate is on the rise across the board (though not as extreme with other races) and divorce rates are skyrocketing. Two parent homes went from being a huge majority to a huge minority.

 

[StageLeft]

I fail to see a problem with teaching to a test. Every academic or professional training course I've ever attended has had some sort of examination that determines if the student has mastered the objectives of the course. If you have an alternate means of objectively determining aptitude in a given subject, do share.

There is no problem teaching to a test if it's a good test. I said that above. The "teaching to a test instead of learning" is a ridiculous and endlessly repeated silly notion but teachers who do not want to be held to objective standards of performance.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

This is just one example. The stimulus business loans
http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=d40e83db3ee2eb66d27effb8a50ac34f

Blacks own same number of businesses but got less money and hispanics owned more businesses and got equal money in comparison to asian owned businesses.

Where's the stat that shows the percentages of loan denials by race? Show me that, and I'll believe...otherwise your allegation is garbage.

 

[alphatarget1]

Chinese immigrants live in the Asian equivalent of a ghetto, and their kids still get educated.

I beg to differ. Maybe a small percentage does. A lot of them never really learn English well and end up staying within the FOB community doing shitty jobs after attending shitty colleges.

 

[ShawnD1]

I beg to differ. Maybe a small percentage does. A lot of them never really learn English well and end up staying within the FOB community doing shitty jobs after attending shitty colleges.

One of my friends in high school was a vietnamese guy who acted whiter than any white person. He spoke English the way people around here speak English, he was an honors student, and he was going to university for sociology. His parents were immigrants from Vietnam who both spoke broken English.

I also knew a few Asian kids who came over when they were very young, and they too did well in school. The adults never seem to learn English properly, but the kids always catch on.

 

[classy]

Where's the stat that shows the percentages of loan denials by race? Show me that, and I'll believe...otherwise your allegation is garbage.

What?

You think black businesses applied for loan help less than asian owned businesses? Hispanics own more businesses than the asian group but on a whole got the same amount of help. Blacks own the same number of businesses, but got way less help. Any person with a half a brain can clearly extrapolate that black and to some degree hispanic businesses got a far higher denial rate. Especially when you compare it to the percentage of the US population of each minority group.

Blacks as a people group are mostly responsible for this to the tune of like 80% or maybe even a little higher. I think Bober put it cleanly and accurately. But a lot of the posts here are the same drivel as usual. But there are some things that could help, but blacks can't control.

Here is an example. I live in a pretty nice town. Mostly white, to the tune of about 95% or so. When the kids are going to school or coming home from school you see police patrols very frequently. A lot of police activity. But when I go to work and I go through Camden to catch the speedline, you see the kids just like where I live out and about going to school. But you see no police anywhere. I have pulled in the Ferry ave station in the morning and seen Camden cops hanging out and shooting the breeze with DRPA police rather than patroling making sure kids are getting to school safely.

Liquor stores. They build them like drinking water in black neighborhoods. But in mostly white towns, they are rarely ever near home developments.

I am not in anyway diminishing the hard work of any person or people group. But many times within minutes someone will say but look at asians in comparison. I don't think its valid because its not an apples to apples comparison. I do believe hispanics are though. And in many cases blacks have fallen behind them as well. There is a lot of issues that still affect the black population. But blacks are unique. As a people group we were just condemned to be a permament under class. Sometimes it looks like its getting better, then other times its seem like its worse than ever.

I know I have struggled. You go to work and out perform your counter parts, but they get promotions and you get some bs story. You work with those who don't like you because you are smarter than they are, more ambituous, the only black and they respond by putting trash in your food and water bottle. Your boss looks the other way. You complete any project thrown your way but your boss looks you in the face and says he doesn't feel comfortable elevating you to be on equal footing with your two white counter parts, but doesn't say why.

The playing field ain't equal. Certain jobs appear to have glass ceilings even for those of us who have done all the things many of you put forth here and have all but shreded any personality trait that would seperate us from our peers. Just can't get rid of the black skin, nor would I ever want to. I love who and what I am. In white professional america they see us no matter what as someone they seen on Cops. The same ole tired stereotypes not only are you faced them everyday, you never get to live down.

And having Obama be elected president while an inspiration, has in many ways made it just that much tougher on us. Its just not an equal playing field and sometimes I wonder if it ever will be.

 

[StageLeft]

Liquor stores. They build them like drinking water in black neighborhoods. But in mostly white towns, they are rarely ever near home developments.

Quite obviously they are building them because Blacks are going to them.

 

[Svnla]

Blacks own same number of businesses but got less money and hispanics owned more businesses and got equal money in comparison to asian owned businesses.

First of all, I have doubt on your source, how about something from mainstream sources such as SBA, Dept. of Labor, and the like?

Secondly, let say your link is legit. Ever thought about "why"? Banks don't just give out loans because business owners are Asians. They wouldn't give a flying freaking care what color a person is as long as them banks can make money. They give out loans IF and only IF they believe then can get all of their money back and make even more money with interest and fees. Period.

Did you know that about half, yes, 50 percent of all small businesseses would fail within 4 years and about 30 percent of them would make it for 10 years or longer. So banks have the tendercy to loan money to businesses that they believe will last for a while. How about because the Asians businesseses have more capital, better business plans, better run, better support from family members, and so on? Ever thought about those instead of "them evil racist whities keep us black folks down" victimization thinking from Jessie and Al/NAACP.

Liquor stores. They build them like drinking water in black neighborhoods. But in mostly white towns, they are rarely ever near home developments.

This is exactly like a discussion I had with a former black worker. He was whinning about the same thing like you. Just like I told him, businesses such as liquor stores, fast food/fried chicken shops, quick payday loans places, pawn shops, etc. are in the inner city areas not because of the "black" color but because of the green color of money. They are there because they are making tons of money. If blacks don't like it, DO NOT do business with those places then no money for them => they have to shut down. Very simple.

Go to a inner city at the 1st of every month and see how popular those check cashing places and liquor stores are with blacks.

You still have not reply to my link about black on black violence (because you were complaint about blacks getting shot on the way home). Here is another sad story (3 black brothers - 1 of them is 13- shot to death by another black over a video game) = http://www.shreveporttimes.com/article/20100818/NEWS03/8180351/Three-brothers-killed-over-XBox-360

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

You think black businesses applied for loan help less than asian owned businesses?

I don't know...and that's why I'm asking for the stat. I sometimes get suspicious of numbers and understand how they can be manipulated to make a 'point'. And this particular stat I'm requesting (loan denials by race) would make the argument for discrimination incredibly compelling...yet it is missing. I find that very curious.

I agree..."the playing field ain't equal"....not only for blacks but for a lot of people from all walks of life in all areas of the world. Life ain't fair and discrimination sucks...but that's not my point. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with the article's 'conclusion'...it just strikes me as odd that the most compelling statistic (that would show clear evidence of discrimination) is missing.

 

[piasabird]

I think you are all idiots. Blacks just dont apply themselves. There is plenty of money available. The trick is to know how to develop a business plan. Banks just dont give people money because they are black or white, or hispanic or asian. You have to have a valid business plan and know what will sell. It is hard to run a business and cheat people and stay in business. You have to have business skills, ethics, and know how to treat your customers. I have seen a few minority businesses in my neighborhood, but they dont seem to be managed that well or they spring up one year and then they go bust once they spend their minority loan. If they are in it just for the short-term money from the government they usually fail. You cant really teach people skills and how to run an honest business to people that have been living some other way all their lives. It is hard work to run a small business and only those with real will-power ever succeed. This is because there will be tough times for almost any business to get off the ground and become a success. It takes a lot of humble pie to make a business work.

 

[classy]

I don't know...and that's why I'm asking for the stat. I sometimes get suspicious of numbers and understand how they can be manipulated to make a 'point'. And this particular stat I'm requesting (loan denials by race) would make the argument for discrimination incredibly compelling...yet it is missing. I find that very curious.

I agree..."the playing field ain't equal"....not only for blacks but for a lot of people from all walks of life in all areas of the world. Life ain't fair and discrimination sucks...but that's not my point. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with the article's 'conclusion'...it just strikes me as odd that the most compelling statistic (that would show clear evidence of discrimination) is missing.

I am not saying that article is totally accurate, but I think it would be rather silly to think that black businesses applied for less help. That could be the only reason for skeptism unless the source is totally unreliable. If there are similar numbers of businesses of two races, then I should see similar number of loan approvals. So your call for loan denial numbers is just finding some way to deflect. But in this instance one group got a whopping double amount of help. And I was just using that as an example that a lot foundational things are not equal. Not as a knock against asians. And if you think that blacks have equal rejection as others in this country then you need there is nothing else left to discuss. Because regardless of how the discussion shapes out, your mindset is one that is unrealistic and truthful.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/06/weekinreview/06Luo.html

 

[Orignal Earl]

I think you are all idiots. Blacks just dont apply themselves. There is plenty of money available. The trick is to know how to develop a business plan. Banks just dont give people money because they are black or white, or hispanic or asian. You have to have a valid business plan and know what will sell. It is hard to run a business and cheat people and stay in business. You have to have business skills, ethics, and know how to treat your customers. I have seen a few minority businesses in my neighborhood, but they dont seem to be managed that well or they spring up one year and then they go bust once they spend their minority loan. If they are in it just for the short-term money from the government they usually fail. You cant really teach people skills and how to run an honest business to people that have been living some other way all their lives. It is hard work to run a small business and only those with real will-power ever succeed. This is because there will be tough times for almost any business to get off the ground and become a success. It takes a lot of humble pie to make a business work.

But really it is because of your religion that you feel dark skinned people are lesser human beings then you, right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFZ1jVO3-OE&feature=player_embedded

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

I am not saying that article is totally accurate, but I think it would be rather silly to think that black businesses applied for less help. That could be the only reason for skeptism unless the source is totally unreliable. If there are similar numbers of businesses of two races, then I should see similar number of loan approvals. So your call for loan denial numbers is just finding some way to deflect. But in this instance one group got a whopping double amount of help. And I was just using that as an example that a lot foundational things are not equal. Not as a knock against asians. And if you think that blacks have equal rejection as others in this country then you need there is nothing else left to discuss. Because regardless of how the discussion shapes out, your mindset is one that is unrealistic and truthful.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/06/weekinreview/06Luo.html

I never said that I think "black businesses applied for less help"...I just wondered whether or not if that was the case and why that particular statistic wasn't mentioned. What may be 'obviously truthful' to you...perhaps is not so obvious to others. Please forgive me for begging the question and my lack of sensitivity.

Edit: For my own edification I did a little research and found that blacks actually do apply for these loans less than whites (how unrealistic and silly of me to even hint at this possibility!) and Asians applied more for these loans than whites. I also found clear evidence of black discrimination in loan approvals when corrected for all relevant factors (collateral, credit history, etc.). Looks like the truth of the matter is that both aspects play a role in the numbers illustrated in the article.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Black families (as well as Hispanic and, to a lesser extent, Native American families) are much more likely to be living in economically-depressed areas with few job opportunities for high school graduates. When a poor kid has a choice of making money by working, stealing, selling drugs, etc. today, or forgo years of money-making opportunities to complete high school for a potentially brighter tomorrow that may never actually materialize, dropping out doesn't seem like such a bad idea, particularly if their family is a paycheck/welfare check away from being homeless.

You want higher academic performance from underprivileged students? Have the school system pay them for results.

- Got an A on your report card this trimester, Tyrone? Here's $250.
- Qualified for the honor roll this semester, Jasmine? Good job! Here's a $500 bonus.
- Got your high school diploma, Pedro? Congratulations, here's $5,000 to help you get started in higher education or in a trade.
- Got an F, Running Bull? Sorry, you don't get shit. Better change your learning strategy if you wanna make the bucks.

Give students a reason to choose grades over gangs, and watch their academic performance skyrocket.

you're not serious are you?

 

[StageLeft]

you're not serious are you?

In fact, his sardonic tone aside he's not joking and this approach of rewarding kids for grades has not only been considered by others but also implemented. I don't know if NY does it but some school districts do reward kids' successes in school with money. It sounds ridiculous but may not be a bad approach.

 

[theevilsharpie]

you're not serious are you?

Yes.

 

[Acanthus]

Nutrition? Come on.

It has to do with the family structure, and the culture. All you have to do is look at the out-of-wedlock birthrates for AAs. When you only have one parent or are living with grandma, the odds of you turning out a productive member if society are low.

You do know that even at the height of the "atomic family unit" (the 50x/60s) only 59% of families had both parents? right?