Black male graduation rates

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bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
lol @ classy ignoring the fact Asians are minorities and saying they don't count. I know and have met a LOT of Asian immigrants, Chinese, Korean, Vietnamese, Japanese, etc. most came over and worked their way up, they weren't in "white areas" fuckin a and even if they are they're CRAMMED. Fuck most my friends in high school were Korean and had a minimum of like 6 people living together.
 

peonyu

Platinum Member
Mar 12, 2003
2,038
23
81
I will point out that American black slaves were NEVER bred. Not in the sense that some slave owner said, hrrmmm, that one looks strong so I will have him mate with that strong looking female there.

No, they are physically stronger because of the hardship they had to survive. You ever watch Roots? Basically slavers caught all they could, usually warriors from tribes, and shipped them across the Atlantic. The problem is, only the strong would live through this trip. Those not physically strong ended up dead. Then after coming to America, those not strong enough for labor were not bought. Those not bought were basically executed. For a few hundred years, it was basically only the strong that lived and thus were able to mate. Everything else got weeded out. While you were somewhat right, I wanted to point out the real reason for the black dominance in American sports.


I doubt the slave trade had a effect, just talking about Sports alone, Black people dominate sports in Europe to. And in Europe they were never enslaved or forced to move to that continent. 99 percent of Black people in Europe are either straight from Africa or they're parents chose to move to Europe a few decades ago.

So there is no slave legacy/descended from over worked slaves to explain why Black Africans dominate in Europe.

Frances National Soccer team for example has 13 black people on it [African majority team], most of them are from Nigeria or The Congo. The other 9 players are White French with the exception of a North African player. So Frances Soccer is majority African [straight from Africa and not born in France].

The UK has 8 African players on they're soccer team, most of them are straight from Africa aswell. So its true to say that Black people are superior athletes. Whether descended from over worked slaves or straight out of Africa they do better when compared to other races. If that wasnt the case then Africans would not be dominating sports in Europe. They would be doing just aswell as Asians or other immigrants to Europe do [there is at most, 5-7 Arab/Muslim players on National soccer teams in Europe, 0 East Asians...vs 57 Black African players].


So slavery has nothing to do with Black people dominating sports, if that was the case then Black Africans would not be dominating sports like they do.
 
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Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,986
1,388
126
lol @ classy ignoring the fact Asians are minorities and saying they don't count. I know and have met a LOT of Asian immigrants, Chinese, Korean, Vietnamese, Japanese, etc. most came over and worked their way up, they weren't in "white areas" fuckin a and even if they are they're CRAMMED. Fuck most my friends in high school were Korean and had a minimum of like 6 people living together.

See how he did not and could not reply to my post, especially about the links of black on black violence, how popular liquor stores and payday loan/check cashing places are with blacks, and how Asian immigrants did not have anything handed to them but worked very hard to move up. He acted like "only" blacks and hispanics are discriminated against and Asians are not.
 
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theevilsharpie

Platinum Member
Nov 2, 2009
2,322
14
81
Go away.

If the prospect for a career and good life arent enough for someone to get good grades and not turn to drugs, then they are just going to continue the cycle.

You're speaking as an adult that is capable of understanding that your actions have long-term consequences. Many of the kids that ultimately end up in jail or on welfare fall off the wagon during their early- to mid-teen years, and by the time they realize that prioritizing sex and drugs over their education wasn't such a good idea, it's too late to do anything about it.

The "education is its own reward" ideal is the status quo today, and it obviously isn't working. It's time to try something else.
 
Jul 10, 2007
12,041
3
0
You're speaking as an adult that is capable of understanding that your actions have long-term consequences. Many of the kids that ultimately end up in jail or on welfare fall off the wagon during their early- to mid-teen years, and by the time they realize that prioritizing sex and drugs over their education wasn't such a good idea, it's too late to do anything about it.

The "education is its own reward" ideal is the status quo today, and it obviously isn't working. It's time to try something else.

yeah, it's called parenting.
 

peonyu

Platinum Member
Mar 12, 2003
2,038
23
81
Uhhhh......Unless you work for some type of large business that deals with the government or the government itself, I'll lay money right now you have never ever worked with any black person who got a job through AA. And AA has many different rules when it comes to college. A family member through marriage who is white, but has 1/8 Indian blood had several colleges say they would let her go there for free. And I get tired of the holy minority asian rants as well. More lies. They come here and are not placed in the hood, but instead get placed in white neighborhoods.

They can qualify for business loans that a black or hispanic person can only dream of. The playing field is far from equal. Middle eastern too, same thing. I seen a middle eastern chick in the acme one day and she had cute little kid with her. And she had a family first card paying for groceries. I swear truthfully about this. I was doing self checkout so I walked out at the same time. Dude she got into a brand new BMW 750. And I mean a cold black brand new 750. I sat in my little hoopity and thought to myself as I watched her drive off, that is some bs.


For businesses and Colleges that 'honor' AA and use a points system [which is pretty common], you would never know that AA is being used. Its a silent system. Put in your job or College application, check mark the 'im black' box and you get instant "bonus" points for yourself.

There was a lawsuit against the University of Michigan about this. That university uses a 150 point system to 'grade' applicants to see who gets in. For being Black/Hispanic or Native American...You get a bonus of 20 points at that College, out of a 150 point max that you can score.

And that lawsuit was over ruled on btw, so that 'bonus' is still active at that University and many other Jobs and Colleges use the same type of silent 'bonus points for being black' system.

How is that fair to White people or Asians ? Its not. And why dont Asians get a bonus, they are more of a minority than blacks or Latinos are.

Heres a link to that case-
http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/01/15/bush.affirmativeaction/

And a quote from it-

"In the University of Michigan case, white students opposed to the program filed suits against the school. One lawsuit challenged the affirmative action program at the College of Literature, Science and the Arts, and another lawsuit challenged admissions policies using race at the law school.

The undergraduate admission process involves a point system where African-American, Hispanic and Native American applicants earn 20 points on the basis of race out of a 150-point system."
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,418
1,599
126
Yes, other forms of discrimination have occurred. Comparing decades of discrimination to nearly four centuries of slavery is just silly. Then following up slavery with 100 years of separate but equal nonsense was the icing on the completely different cake.

No it's not silly. At some point you gotta say "shit, I gotta stop letting people shit on me and get myself out of this hole by working harder", not "STOP OPPRESSING ME!!11ONEONEONEONE!!~"

Some people figure it out sooner than others.
 

theevilsharpie

Platinum Member
Nov 2, 2009
2,322
14
81
oh i understand now. you're from CA.

sorry, my tax dollars are not going to pay someone to get good grades.

Your tax dollars are currently paying for the consequences of someone getting bad grades and/or not completing their education.

the incentive is already there. do well in school, apply that knowledge, make money when you graduate.

This is where you make a fundamental error. For a sizable chunk of the population, there is very little incentive to complete school. A high school diploma doesn't amount to much these days, and the lack of economic opportunity in poorer areas along with the stigma of being a minority (particularly black) makes it that much harder for them to be competitive in the workforce. Graduating high school does enable a path to higher education, but the cost keeps it out of reach.

When kids are faced with a choice between an "education" with an uncertain future (while giving up many "luxuries" to pursue it), or the ability to make money today, is it any surprise which one they'll most often choose?

yeah, it's called parenting.

Parenting works great for the kids with effective parents. What about kids whose parents are working/incarcerated/drunk/high? Responding with "lulz, guess you should've been born to better parents :awe:" is not effective and will ensure that yet another generation of people end up on the welfare rolls.
 
Feb 19, 2001
20,155
23
81
Black families (as well as Hispanic and, to a lesser extent, Native American families) are much more likely to be living in economically-depressed areas with few job opportunities for high school graduates. When a poor kid has a choice of making money by working, stealing, selling drugs, etc. today, or forgo years of money-making opportunities to complete high school for a potentially brighter tomorrow that may never actually materialize, dropping out doesn't seem like such a bad idea, particularly if their family is a paycheck/welfare check away from being homeless.

You want higher academic performance from underprivileged students? Have the school system pay them for results.

- Got an A on your report card this trimester, Tyrone? Here's $250.
- Qualified for the honor roll this semester, Jasmine? Good job! Here's a $500 bonus.
- Got your high school diploma, Pedro? Congratulations, here's $5,000 to help you get started in higher education or in a trade.
- Got an F, Running Bull? Sorry, you don't get shit. Better change your learning strategy if you wanna make the bucks.

Give students a reason to choose grades over gangs, and watch their academic performance skyrocket.

LoL?

Asians:
- Got an A on your report card? Good. You should've anyway
- Got a B on your report card? Get beat and grounded for the next year.
- Got a 4.0? Oh nice. Now we can think about letting you go out and play and not have to go to prep classes 24/7.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
I doubt the slave trade had a effect, just talking about Sports alone, Black people dominate sports in Europe to. And in Europe they were never enslaved or forced to move to that continent. 99 percent of Black people in Europe are either straight from Africa or they're parents chose to move to Europe a few decades ago.

WTF? where the hell did you get that info from? Holy crap man. All that started with the Mesopotamians. Sure there were slaves other than blacks, but they did the same thing in Europe for a much longer time frame than in America.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_slavery

So slavery has nothing to do with Black people dominating sports, if that was the case then Black Africans would not be dominating sports like they do.

I never stated that was the ONLY reason. Another part is that even in Africa, many of the tribes there lived a much harsher life for a much longer time frame than those in Europe. Europeans were on horses, building cities, sailing ships, and using mechanical devices that didn't require them all to be as strong while much of Africa was still playing in the mud basically. There was a large natural selection for a much longer time frame in Africa where only the strong survived. Literally. That was further emphasized by those that moved here to America when slavery "bred" in out more of those traits.

Remember what I said about human genes? All humans share 95% of the same genes as each other. We are the only known higher species on the planet to do so. We have very little genetic drift. The only difference is what genes are turned on and what aren't. Selective breeding can only allow those with some genes turned on to survive while those without would die. That doesn't mean those that died were without the same genes, they were just not active. That doesn't mean that fat white people are without those same genes either. You need to read up on Daisy World or the Birch Moth examples of genetics.

Slavery just further emphasized those strong genes. It's mainly why America has dominated most overly physical sports around the globe for a long time. The last few decades have seen that change somewhat as people have started to move elsewhere and mate with who they want to mate with not just with who they can.
 

Pocatello

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 1999
9,754
2
76
Graduating high school has nothing to do with intelligence, so it's irrelevant in this conversation. We're not talking about graduating with honors or high GPAs and advanced classes. We're simply talking about not dropping out before you finish. The only things that matter are work ethic and priorities.

This is the only post you need for this thread.
 
Jul 10, 2007
12,041
3
0
Your tax dollars are currently paying for the consequences of someone getting bad grades and/or not completing their education.

you're absolutely right, and that should change too.
my tax dollars should be better spent, not paying the town/state my money to go towards ineffective schools that i don't have kids attending.

This is where you make a fundamental error. For a sizable chunk of the population, there is very little incentive to complete school. A high school diploma doesn't amount to much these days, and the lack of economic opportunity in poorer areas along with the stigma of being a minority (particularly black) makes it that much harder for them to be competitive in the workforce. Graduating high school does enable a path to higher education, but the cost keeps it out of reach.

When kids are faced with a choice between an "education" with an uncertain future (while giving up many "luxuries" to pursue it), or the ability to make money today, is it any surprise which one they'll most often choose?

a job, any job beats being homeless or a criminal in jail.

Parenting works great for the kids with effective parents. What about kids whose parents are working/incarcerated/drunk/high? Responding with "lulz, guess you should've been born to better parents :awe:" is not effective and will ensure that yet another generation of people end up on the welfare rolls.

so you'd rather bribe the kids to do something they're already supposed to be doing.

look, the cycle has to break somewhere and it sure as hell ain't going to happen by paying kids off.
who knows what they're going to do with the money. knowing their situation, the parents will probably take it and buy drugs and booze.

maybe the parents ought to be enrolled in parenting school.
 

classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
15,219
1
81
See how he did not and could not reply to my post, especially about the links of black on black violence, how popular liquor stores and payday loan/check cashing places are with blacks, and how Asian immigrants did not have anything handed to them but worked very hard to move up. He acted like "only" blacks and hispanics are discriminated against and Asians are not.

I never said asians were not minorities. I never said they were not discriminated against. All I said was, that asians are typically put forth as a gold standard for minority success. But the same rules are frequently not applied equally to asians in contrast to blacks and hispanics.

All the other stuff ain't worth discussing.
 

classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
15,219
1
81
For businesses and Colleges that 'honor' AA and use a points system [which is pretty common], you would never know that AA is being used. Its a silent system. Put in your job or College application, check mark the 'im black' box and you get instant "bonus" points for yourself.

There was a lawsuit against the University of Michigan about this. That university uses a 150 point system to 'grade' applicants to see who gets in. For being Black/Hispanic or Native American...You get a bonus of 20 points at that College, out of a 150 point max that you can score.

And that lawsuit was over ruled on btw, so that 'bonus' is still active at that University and many other Jobs and Colleges use the same type of silent 'bonus points for being black' system.

How is that fair to White people or Asians ? Its not. And why dont Asians get a bonus, they are more of a minority than blacks or Latinos are.

Heres a link to that case-
http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/01/15/bush.affirmativeaction/

And a quote from it-

"In the University of Michigan case, white students opposed to the program filed suits against the school. One lawsuit challenged the affirmative action program at the College of Literature, Science and the Arts, and another lawsuit challenged admissions policies using race at the law school.

The undergraduate admission process involves a point system where African-American, Hispanic and Native American applicants earn 20 points on the basis of race out of a 150-point system."

To cut right to the chase. A black star athlete pays the bills for that white and asian student, especially at Michigan. If it wasn't for those athletes, many would not even be able to afford the tuition. College is just not the next step in development anymore for young people for just education. While it should be the focus, it can be debated. But yes Michigan and many other top schools well be more lenient for admission because those students actually give something back to the university.
 

nobodyknows

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2008
5,474
0
0
To cut right to the chase. A black star athlete pays the bills for that white and asian student, especially at Michigan. If it wasn't for those athletes, many would not even be able to afford the tuition. College is just not the next step in development anymore for young people for just education. While it should be the focus, it can be debated. But yes Michigan and many other top schools well be more lenient for admission because those students actually give something back to the university.

LOL, playing basketball/football/whatever is giving something back? Maybe is some small and indirect way, but they're doing it for themselves and themselves only. Look up George Washington Carver if you want to see an example of somebody giving something back.

We all know that pro athletes are all overpaid, it's just the way the media system works.
 

theevilsharpie

Platinum Member
Nov 2, 2009
2,322
14
81
you're absolutely right, and that should change too.
my tax dollars should be better spent, not paying the town/state my money to go towards ineffective schools that i don't have kids attending.

Unless you intend to kill or deport anyone that doesn't complete high school, you'll probable be paying taxes to support them. I'd rather that tax money have some chance of a return, rather than pissing it away keeping someone locked in a cell.

a job, any job beats being homeless or a criminal in jail.

For many people in economically depressed areas of the country, there aren't enough jobs for everyone. Without a job or some other form of income, there isn't much choice other than turning to crime or starving.

so you'd rather bribe the kids to do something they're already supposed to be doing.

Given that "bribery" addresses one of the major issues why so many students don't complete their education (financial difficulties), then yes.

look, the cycle has to break somewhere and it sure as hell ain't going to happen by paying kids off.

A promise of a better tomorrow certainly isn't getting results, and considering that our entire culture revolves around money, paying students to achieve the desired results is the next logical step.


who knows what they're going to do with the money. knowing their situation, the parents will probably take it and buy drugs and booze.

It doesn't matter. The goal is to incentivize the student to remain in school as a willing participant. If the parent is relying on their kids' school performance to fund a drug habit, they will have every incentive to ensure that their kid stays in school and performs as well as possible. The kid will then graduate from school, and have doors of opportunity open to them for the rest of their lives that would slammed shut if they dropped out.

This is what will break the cycle.

maybe the parents ought to be enrolled in parenting school.

Good luck with that.
 
Jul 10, 2007
12,041
3
0
It doesn't matter. The goal is to incentivize the student to remain in school as a willing participant. If the parent is relying on their kids' school performance to fund a drug habit, they will have every incentive to ensure that their kid stays in school and performs as well as possible. The kid will then graduate from school, and have doors of opportunity open to them for the rest of their lives that would slammed shut if they dropped out.

your solution promotes nothing other than teaching them how to pass a test.

black culture is the main problem. black culture says it's not cool to go to school to get your learn on. this is what has to change.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
LoL?

Asians:
- Got an A on your report card? Good. You should've anyway
- Got a B on your report card? Get beat and grounded for the next year.
- Got a 4.0? Oh nice. Now we can think about letting you go out and play and not have to go to prep classes 24/7.

LOL I like that. Asian kids get good educations because of Asian parents and Asian cultures. We're talking though about black graduation rates, which means we're really talking about inner city majority black schools. In these the majority of students don't have parents who give a damn about their education as long as their kids aren't "disrespected" - these are the kids for whom we need a remedy. I can see cash payments, particularly on objective tests. This would give the kids some discretionary income and boost the local economy too, and would probably work much better than hiring yet more overpaid and barely literate teachers simply because they are black. Any time we can pay for results we as a nation are better off. Any time we can break a cycle of poverty, ignorance and illiteracy we as a nation are better off - even if that means bribes and by-passing the shitty parents and the shitty schools. It won't be that easy though. I did a renovation and addition for a 97 percent black school, and during the walk-through I noticed something about their library - damned few books. They had tons of motivational tools like posters claiming that blacks had invented literally everything (quite probably a black person did invent the boot - but it damned sure wasn't in the 1800s) but very few books. If the tools simply aren't available, how are you going to get kids a true education? Somebody needs to figure out that the problem isn't so much the kids' self-respect as it is their ignorance - fix the latter and the former naturally follows.

Classy's example of loan discrimination may have some truth too. Everyone knows how hard Asians work. Ditto with Mexicans. Given that banks have limited resources, it isn't hard for me to imagine some unintentional discrimination creeping in, bank officers being more impressed with an Asian's or Mexican's small business plan merely (and subconsciously) because of their race. Even though these processes are ruthlessly policed by a federal government actively looking for evidence of discrimination specifically against blacks, I can see bank officers, even very liberal ones, overlooking a discrepancy in an Asian's dry-cleaning business loan proposal that she might not overlook in a black's liquor store loan proposal. I don't see any practical way around that though, as lowering standards for blacks merely lowers standards for society as a whole.

Maybe the answer is for all blacks applying for loans to claim to be Jamaican - aren't they also famous for their hard work?
 

peonyu

Platinum Member
Mar 12, 2003
2,038
23
81
WTF? where the hell did you get that info from? Holy crap man. All that started with the Mesopotamians. Sure there were slaves other than blacks, but they did the same thing in Europe for a much longer time frame than in America.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_slavery



I was talking only about Black slavery. There were a tiny amount of African slaves in Europe during the slave trade, in the UK at most 2000...But most of them were trained as house servants to be shipped to Jamaica or other rich colonies to keep the Governors and other elites happy.

And as far as Black slavery goes, North Africans dont count. Arabs had a slave trade aswell with Black Africans, and North Africa recieved a ton of them aswell...The native population of N.Africa is not black, in some areas it may appear that way but those are slave descendants. Same can be seen in Saudi Arabia and even Iraq where black slavery was semi-common and they're descendants are still around.

So as far as the Romans go and North African slavery that doesnt count as black slavery since native N.Africans are not black.

And if you want to be picky about it, every race and culture has had slavery at some point. The Romans were very fond of they're German and Celtic neighbors for slavery. Caesar when he took over Gaul enslaved half of the population. The Turks were enslaving White Christian Europeans up until the late 1800s. The Aztecs enslaved neighboring tribes, the Chinese enslaved Koreans...So yea I just mean black slavery and not slavery in general.
 
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Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,461
996
126
To cut right to the chase. A black star athlete pays the bills for that white and asian student, especially at Michigan. If it wasn't for those athletes, many would not even be able to afford the tuition. College is just not the next step in development anymore for young people for just education. While it should be the focus, it can be debated. But yes Michigan and many other top schools well be more lenient for admission because those students actually give something back to the university.

College Football and in some instances College Basketball, IE: revenue sports, DO NOT fund academics. They fund Title IX and other non revenue sports. They fund all women sports, baseball, and the olympic sports schools have. In some instances as of late, Texas A&M, athletics has had to borrow from the academics side of the school.
 
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